Idea for a TWF Barbarian

[Nitestalker]

This is an idea I had for a TWF barbarian. Please let me know waht you think.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(12 Barbarian \ 2 Ranger)
Hit Points: 250
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 11
Will: 3

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 18 20
Dexterity 16 18
Constitution 16 21
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 6 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 3 8
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 3 5
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 0
Heal 3 4
Hide 3 4
Intimidate -2 15
Jump 8 22
Listen -1 6
Move Silently 3 4
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search 3 6
Spot 3 4
Swim 4 5
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct

Level 2 (Ranger)

Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 4 (Barbarian)

Level 5 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Goblinoid Hatred I
Enhancement: Dwarven Goblinoid Hatred II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I

Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 7 (Barbarian)

Level 8 (Barbarian)

Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave

Level 10 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Giant Dodger I

Level 11 (Barbarian)

Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave

Level 13 (Barbarian)

Level 14 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
Enhancement: Dwarven Giant Dodger II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution III
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I

[Nitestalker]

Or would this one be better?


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(12 Barbarian \ 2 Ranger)
Hit Points: 294
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 9
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 18 19
Dexterity 12 14
Constitution 18 24
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 6 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 1 6
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 4 7
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 0
Heal 4 5
Hide 1 2
Intimidate -2 12
Jump 8 18
Listen 0 14
Move Silently 1 2
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search 3 6
Spot 4 5
Swim 4 4
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will

Level 2 (Ranger)

Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 4 (Barbarian)

Level 5 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Giant Dodger I
Enhancement: Dwarven Goblinoid Hatred I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I

Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 7 (Barbarian)

Level 8 (Barbarian)

Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Goblinoid Hatred II

Level 11 (Barbarian)

Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 13 (Barbarian)

Level 14 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Giant Dodger II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution III

[nbhs275]

2 ranger loses you 5% crit range, and gains you very little. Not worth it in my opinion

[MondoGrunday]

2 ranger gains us twf feat for free, favoured enemy for free, bow str. for free, cure wand usage for free, cure poison for free, rapid shot for free and cure disease wand usage for free. you lose rage crit2 and indom. will., which you can get a cap increase.

can you take itwf and gtwf if you don't have dex 17 even if you get twf at lvl 2 ranger? , if so, go less dex and more con, but i thought you had to have 17 dex as pre requisite for twf even for ranger lvl 2.

[Mad_Bombardier]

can you take itwf and gtwf if you don't have dex 17 even if you get twf at lvl 2 ranger? , if so, go less dex and more con, but i thought you had to have 17 dex as pre requisite for twf even for ranger lvl 2.Nope. Ranger class abilities don't require DEX, but taking the feats does. So, you are stuck needing base 15 or 16 DEX with +2 or +1 tome. And *IF* they add a higher level of TWF at higher level, it may have a higher DEX requirement. So, limited DEX might hurt you in the future, too.

PnP: TWF 15, ImpTWF 17, GrTWF 19, (Epic)PerfectTWF 25
DDO: TWF 15, ImpTWF 17, GrTWF 17, <who knows!?>

[Nitestalker]

So best option is to stuick with the first build, cause after a +2 tome, i should be able to get GTWF.

Sweet thanks for the input.

I already know I lose out on some crit with the 2 levels of ranger, but I have a pure build thf, I jsut wanted to do something different :D

[MondoGrunday]

i think your first build will rock. i like the high con as well. i wasn't able to put much into con on my barb/ranger due wanting a umd of 20 by lvl 14 and i had no tome so had to keep dex at 17 to start :(
i love the kopesh choice for your dual wielders. i needed some extra feats for other stuff and couldn't go that route but when we raise cap, i'd love to use kopesh as well.
instead of power attack and cleave, go with itwf and gtwf. u will lose attack bonus for damage bonus, but power attack is better for thf anyway, just my opinion, but do what you think works best for your play style.

[Strakeln]

2 ranger loses you 5% crit range, and gains you very little. Not worth it in my opinion*For the time being. No one knows what the enhancements will be at the next cap, or at level 20. Personally, I'd be pretty surprised to see the critical rage enhancement go much further than it already is... maybe we'll see version 3 of it, but I highly doubt there will ever be a version 4.

Also, while you lose 5% crits, you gain 75% attacks (assuming you go with the 1st build, eat a tome, and get to GTWF). So you crit 5% less but you gain three swings per round, hardly something to sneeze at.

Assuming that critical rage 3 isn't available until level 18, with the next cap increase, this build will have the same crit range as a pure barb, but 3 more attacks during which (s)he may crit.

Personally, I think the numbers still work out better for a THF barb with the SoS, but a TWF barb build could be a lot of fun.

I'm on the fence about whether multiclassing a barb build will eventually "gimp" it. It really depends on the enhancements available at level 20... as it currently stands, most of the benefits of level 20 (mighty rage, +1 rage, +1 DR) are not huge... but not insignificant either. But watch there be some uber level 20 barb enhancement like "critical damage rage", which doubles the crit damage multiplier on your weapon when raging (or something crazy like that).

[nbhs275]

2 ranger gains us twf feat for free, favoured enemy for free, bow str. for free, cure wand usage for free, cure poison for free, rapid shot for free and cure disease wand usage for free. you lose rage crit2 and indom. will., which you can get a cap increase.

can you take itwf and gtwf if you don't have dex 17 even if you get twf at lvl 2 ranger? , if so, go less dex and more con, but i thought you had to have 17 dex as pre requisite for twf even for ranger lvl 2.

twf feat that you already have a feat for if you make an intellegent build

favored enemy? +2 damage against ONE, UNO, 1, enemy type doesnt make up for critting 5% less( for heavy picks is a loss of about 70 damage every 5 attacks)

Bow str and rapid shot, which are so great seeing your bow is gunna do junk damage without manyshot, and will get used about 1% of the time, against mobs where speed doesnt matter

cure disease and poison wands? ok, first, your a barbarian for pete's sake. Your fort saves are gunna be mid 30s, poison and disease will be so infrequently a problem, that its not worth it.

Healing wands which you gotta switch out to use, slow your speed down, and bring your offensive power to a halt to use? yea, not convincing me with that. Potions are faster, keep your weapons in hand, and your not moved to a crawl when you drink them. If your so worried about wand healing, give the plat or wands to a cleric. Wow, look at that! same healing ability without shooting yourself in the foot offensively!

[nbhs275]

Also, using arguement of "well at level 16" is pointless. For current builds, lvl 14 is the cap, and to plan for lvl 16, which we wont get for ATLEAST 2 months, is like basing your build around raid loot that hasnt even been designed yet

[MondoGrunday]

Also, using arguement of "well at level 16" is pointless. For current builds, lvl 14 is the cap, and to plan for lvl 16, which we wont get for ATLEAST 2 months, is like basing your build around raid loot that hasnt even been designed yet

i think building a toon around expected cap increase while multiclassing is very pro active. i know what lvl 14 barbs get and i know what lvl 2 rangers get, so how is there any guess work here??? bad analogy nbh.
you put too much wait into 5% crit. you are taking all of the points i've made regarding a multiclass build and compare it to a cookie cutter pure barb, which i mentioned earlier, that i already have.

"twf feat that you already have a feat for if you make an intellegent build" huh? isn't taking 2 lvls of rogue intelligent to get it for free or you have to spend a feat on it for pure barb. i don't see any other way of getting it.

why is +2 to hit a fovoured enemy bad? i'll take the +'s where i can , especially if its a free feat from a class that i want because of other free feats anyway.

your arguements against my build keep referring to dps stuff. this is not an exclusive dps build so damage amounts are not my only consideration. therefore loosing out on heavy pick damage from a weap type i'll never carry doesn't make me want to change my toon.

i love having cure wands, can help cure others as well as myself. you think wand healing slows you down try trading off potions to others in a fight. i know i'm a barb and "barb's don't heal" think outside the box. why not expand the capabilities and broaden the range of your toons. with a slow cap raise i find trying what hasn't been done as challenging.
giving the cleric wands is like carrying around theives tools to hand out to the rogue to open locks for you, its just not necessary unless you want the wands to be used for everyone. if you think giving a cleric wands to heal just you , when you need it is a little selfish. you also missed where i don't use the wands while fighting anyway, im raged and can't use them. its to top up after battles and inbetween shrines and to solo.

as far as bow str and rapid shot, i find i do adequate damage since they rely on my str as is. i can hit enemies with my stat damaging w/p bow and knock them down before they can even hit me. then finish them with my rapiers. i don't even need many shot.

don't get me wrong nbh, i see your points and they are valid, but you are only focusing on comparing my hybrid with a pure dps barb. and yes, i can in no way match the dps output. i can come fairly close and with my stat damage i can cut down con on a creature much the same way a dps build can cut down hit points. put us both in a grp and we'd clean up, me knocking down con and you wiping whats left of their hitpoints.

i bet your pure barb kicks ass as does my pure dps fighter. this build you have to open your mind to possibilities and breaking away from the norm.
will it be gimped? maybe. but if i build it the way i have built several in the character gen, the build looks solid on paper and serves the purpose it designed to do. i know what its like to rely on pots and clerics and we are suppose to. this build is to try and break away from that dependance a bit.

[EinarMal]

Well my only comment is that TWF on it's own is ok, but you do a lot better with stat damaging/DPS by taking ITWF and GTWF. I am not sure why you cleave and great cleave over those two feats as the
extra attacks are worth more DPS than either of those.

Personally I would skip the Ranger levels and just take the TWF feat but it won't kill you to splash the Ranger levels for versatility.

Feats (Must Have):
TWF (Ranger)
ITWF
GTWF
IC Slashing or IC Piercing

Personally I would just use axes and the racial enhancements over the khopesh and you know that wounding and puncturing only occurs on piercing weapons?

I am not quite sure what you are going for if you want to go the stat damaging route you will need to take IC Piercing instead and drop the khopesh.

[Strakeln]

Also, using arguement of "well at level 16" is pointless. For current builds, lvl 14 is the cap, and to plan for lvl 16, which we wont get for ATLEAST 2 months, is like basing your build around raid loot that hasnt even been designed yetThat's nothing but an opinion. Really, not planning for the future is a total lack of foresight, one that very well might gimp you down the road (ask those few batmen who didn't think far enough ahead and couldn't fill out the KDS dex...). Especially when you KNOW certain thing will occur down the road. This is a good example, the multi-class barbarian knows that the +2 to crit range enhancement won't be available for 2 months, but does know it will be available.

Another example: 13 ranger/1 rogue. Biggest loss is the FoM spell. I was aware of this when I made the build, and was planning on using FoM scrolls to supplement during the 8-12 months it would take for a cap raise. Well, due to my own lack of foresight, those scrolls ended up not being available for sale. I was lucky enough to get the boots so that this didn't end up being a problem, but I still know that at the next cap raise I will be able to cast the spell.

[Nitestalker]

I appreciate the constuctive criticism.

For those that keep telling me to go pure THF Barbarian, guess waht look at my sig, I got one.

I wanted to do somthing a bit different, Yes i know i miss out on some damage capabilities due to having two levels of Ranger. I also know a cap is coming, I'll be lucky to have my pure Barbarian 14 by that time, let alone my new build.

I play for fun that is what i do.

If you don't like my ideas, great your entitled to that. If you think things should be different, great your entitled to that too. I just wanted some constructive criticism on my build idea.

[Mr._Dna]

Well, I've been wanting to make a 2 wep fighting heavy pick using barbarian, just going for max damage. Critical rage II is a key part of this, from my point of view, so I went pure barb...the only thing I'm really missing out on is stunning blow. I would take that at level 15.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.75
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Neutral Good Human Female
(14 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 261
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 7
Will: 3

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 18 22
Dexterity 16 17
Constitution 14 17
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 5

Feat/Enhancement
Modified Skills
Skills (Level 14)
Balance 11
Bluff -1
Concentration 3
Diplomacy -1
Disable Device n/a
Haggle -1
Heal -1
Hide 3
Intimidate -1
Jump 22
Listen 15
Move Silently 3
Open Lock n/a
Perform n/a
Repair -1
Search -1
Spot -1
Swim 22
Tumble n/a
Use Magic Device n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I

Level 2 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I

Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I

Level 4 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II

Level 5 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I

Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II

Level 7 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II

Level 8 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II

Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage III

Level 10 (Barbarian)

Level 11 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution III

Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Critical Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage III

Level 13 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I

Level 14 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Critical Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III



Human for the extra feat (toughness) and the +1 enhancement bonus to strength. Con is the major disadvantage to this build from what I can see. I've never leveled a barbarian past 4, so I'd appreciate any input from the experts here...

For skills: maxing out Jump, Balance, Listen, Swim.

[ErgonomicCat]

I'd go with Fighter 2 over ranger 2, personally. Still get the TWF with a bonus feat, take weapon focus with the 2nd, and get fighter strength 2.

Ranger 2 is great *after* you've taken 2 levels of fighter. But bow strength on a barb build is pretty irrelevant. Using cure wands is nice, but I'd rather have a feat and +1 str.