3 Barb toons, which is best in general?

[MondoGrunday]

Necrosavant : Barb 14, max dex and high con for hitpoints. take twf, itwf, improved crit pierce and finesse. using rapiers for stat damage. idea is twf barb with massive hp, and have imp crit 2 enhancement. crit with rapiers from 13 -20.

Spiritmonger : Barb 12/Ranger 2, max str., high dex (17) for twf, 10 cha slowly building umd so by lvl 16 i have 20+ for rr items. ranger levels for twf, bow str, favoured enemy undead and cure wand usage. going with heavy armour feat, itwf feat, improved crit slashing, possibly umd or finesse (for stat weaps) or kopesh to choose between kopesh and dwarvin axe as primary weaps. idea is by lvl 16 to improved crit 2 enhancement. raging twf dps and stat damage fighter. decent ranged (bow) and heal self with wands.

Glitterfang: Barb 14 , max dex, 16 wis (for high saves). twf, itwf, finesse, iron will or possibly toughness for last feat. idea is rage stat damage and have pally like save ability and keep imp crit slashing 2.

i will only level one of these toons (no time for all 3, i have 5 other capped as it is) What are some opinions as to which is better overall. I know each is better at some specific task (eg. saves, dps, stat damage etc.) but of these 3 builds who would you rather have in your party?

if you see something that would fit better with these toons as far as feats or stats go , please feel free to give constructive criticism. I'm leaning toward Spiritmonger righ now since I love having the ability to self heal. But it really hurts not having the number 2 crit enhancement at 14 cap.

thanks in advance for your input.
Mondo

[Slayer918]

I'd go with the top build except str based... go 18 str 16 dex (use a +1 dex tome to hit the 17 req.) 14 con... level ups go to str... TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC, and probably Power attack... since rage doesn't affect dex your better off going str based as a barb... you'll have a higher to hit and be able to not only do stat damage but also DPS...

I wouldn't multiclass a barbarian personally

[Shade]

There all awful.

Barbarian = Fighter with rage and less feats.
Rage = more strength and con.

Makes no sense at all to go for weapon finesse. If your keen on that, play a fighter.

[MondoGrunday]

There all awful.

Barbarian = Fighter with rage and less feats.
Rage = more strength and con.

Makes no sense at all to go for weapon finesse. If your keen on that, play a fighter.

this coming from a guy who's afraid to take a challenge against a similar build of barb as the first on the list :rolleyes:
if they are awful, please do enlighten as to why. you make a claim with absolutely no points to back it up. "fighter with rage and less feats" hardly counts as to why my 3 builds are "awful". maybe they are, but you have not given any proof to support your claim.
how is the second version awful , if it is strength based?
at least the first response was informative, not an adolescent claim off the cuff. your points are well taken slayer and I appreciate the info, you obviously know the right feats. thanks for input :) . shade, please refrain from posting here until you take up the challenge you ran from already.

ps it's "they're" not there :)

[Rekker]

this coming from a guy who's afraid to take a challenge against a similar build of barb as the first on the list :rolleyes:
if they are awful, please do enlighten as to why. you make a claim with absolutely no points to back it up. "fighter with rage and less feats" hardly counts as to why my 3 builds are "awful". maybe they are, but you have not given any proof to support your claim.
how is the second version awful , if it is strength based?
at least the first response was informative, not an adolescent claim off the cuff. your points are well taken slayer and I appreciate the info, you obviously know the right feats. thanks for input :) . shade, please refrain from posting here until you take up the challenge you ran from already.

ps it's "they're" not there :)

The build you're talking didn't use Weapon Finesse either.

[MondoGrunday]

i understand that, that is why i said "similar". the weap finesse is there to use weaps with high dex since I feel at some point in the near future ac will once again count for something and while raging i don't want my butt hanging n the breeze so to speak. the build i'm referring to is renegade's stat damage barb with dual wielding rapiers. im half way to the dual wielding but didn't want to make a cookie cutter no brainer barb that we have 100 of at any given time on any given server. i was hoping with the 3 builds op'ed that i could bring something new to the table and take a different approach. i know that a high str. high con barb with all the rage feats and thf with power attack is the "in" thing. i have a fighter that already has all that. i went high dex since while raging my str and con will already be high with hardy rage and power rage enhancements. i like twf with stat damage weaps because they kill faster than a dps. i will pump all points into intimidate to be able to keep aggro.
this toon is not suppose to be the "best" barb. just good enough to kill, take aggro and brake away from the cookie cutter build that takes no thought to build and offers nothing new to what every other barb already has.
i don't want to build renegade's either.

[MondoGrunday]

question : what is crit range on light picks? i have rapier of wounding and puncturing but my dual wielding off hand is a light pick of wounding and puncturing. are there other types of wounder and puncture weaps (not bows)? it just seems that all the ones i find are finesse type weaps which lead me to use finesse. (also for ac, since raging ac is bad)

[Casta]

A barbarian is about rage, rage adds to your str and con it dose nothing for your dex so weapon finess is wasted on a barb. The second one with no cha and umd dosen't look like to bad of a build, but you lose out on crit rage 2 and thats one of the best barb enhancments.

Try something like 18 str 16 dex +1 tome whatevers left in con feats twf improved twf greater twf power attack stunning blow. Something more like that at least i didn't really think about this so i know someone will give you a better one soon.

[MondoGrunday]

thanks Casta,
my second version does currently have 17 base str and 17 base dex. i am putting all dwarf and barb enhancements into con. all other enhancements are based on rage. i like using the wand to heal myself and the extra feats from ranger allow for this and twf plus some nice ranged feats like bow strength. i already have the "toe to toe" stand and swing fighter so this toon will bring more versatility to the "tank" ( i know i said tank, i use the term lightly :) )
i know losing crit rage two is brutal, it was the single most troubling part of this build, but i'm building for the future so i plan on getting it with my next feat once the level cap his in the new year (hopefully).
they have to make ac count for something soon, or nobody will bother with it. which means high dex will be good for that as well as providing pre req for twf. the umd thing is a work in progress. with the cartouche and possibly umd feat i could hit 20 by lvl 14 (already have luck gloves). i love the option of bypassing rr.

[Casta]

they have to make ac count for something soon, or nobody will bother with it. which means high dex will be good for that as well as providing pre req for twf.

A barb will never have good ac, decent ac maybe but even using +5 mith fp 16 dex is the most you need for ac. And if your going for madstone boots like everyone else dose then 12 base and you have enough. Dex is only good for twf and reflex save not ac.

On a fighter its different because you have armor mastery, but even on a dwarf barb i don't know where you would find the enhancments for it.

[Thrudh]

Personally, I think a 12/2 Barbarian/Ranger would be very interesting.. with the goal of 14/2 Barb/Ranger...

I range quite well with my multi-class Barbarian (Bow Strength, Rage, and a silver bow rock) and that's without the Critical Range enhancments

Shooting for 14/2 Barb/Ranger would be a pretty cool character...

With the Improved Critical: Ranged feat, and a silver bow, such a character would be critting on a 15-20, 3x damage, while raging with Bow Strength (and Rapid Shot).

Go for 14/6 Barbarian/Ranger at end-game, and get Many-Shot as well :)

It's not a bad concept at all... And be able to wand-heal comes in mighty handy too...

[Blazer]

It's not a bad concept at all... And be able to wand-heal comes in mighty handy too...

As long as you don't try and wand heal yourself up to full after a Raise. That's a lot of wand charges! :) Just for fun I tried wand healing up a dwarf barb after rezzing him with a Cure Serious wand. Took for-freakin-ever.

[Strumpoo]

I too think you would be better off with STR based.

Your finesse feat is kind of wasted when you rage up, since you are getting a huge strength and to hit bonus. You really don't need Finesse. I would just go mid range dex and max strength. That way you have high damage to punch through any DR with your stat drainers.

IMO a barb doesn't really make a good high dex toon. Would be better off with a rogue or ranger there. By trying to max dex you are kind of missing out on the biggest strengths of a barb. High STR and CON.

Of the three builds though, I too like the second one better, especially if you head to the 14/6 combo as mentioned above. But who knows what new enhancements and feats they will have for a level 20 ranger or level 20 barb, so who know what you are giving up.

[MondoGrunday]

I too think you would be better off with STR based.

Your finesse feat is kind of wasted when you rage up, since you are getting a huge strength and to hit bonus. You really don't need Finesse. I would just go mid range dex and max strength. That way you have high damage to punch through any DR with your stat drainers.

IMO a barb doesn't really make a good high dex toon. Would be better off with a rogue or ranger there. By trying to max dex you are kind of missing out on the biggest strengths of a barb. High STR and CON.

Of the three builds though, I too like the second one better, especially if you head to the 14/6 combo as mentioned above. But who knows what new enhancements and feats they will have for a level 20 ranger or level 20 barb, so who know what you are giving up.

excellent feedback guys, i really appreciate the valid points and support for them. i have not taken finesse on my Spiritmonger build and definately won't thanks to the input here. i thought i'd expand him to the finesse weaps but the benefit doesn't outway the cost and i'm spreading him to thin to cover too many areas. i am going to keep going the twf with 16 dex (have dex tome) to get twf feat. max str and throw a couple of points into umd to ease the climb to 20. i know con is the route to take but i can get con through enhancements on both dwarf and barb lines.

and the wand heal is to help top me up from time to time and ease the burden of the cleric healing all my hit points all the time. my bard has tried to wand heal dwarf barbs and it is time consuming :D

[Shade]

Yea like I said in the first reply. But stubborn to need 10 guys to tell you teh same thing before it sinks in that it was a bad idea.. But whatever.

And for the record im not afraid of anyone. I'll take on anyone who wants to try. Im on the khyber server.

I don't have risia and not you, or not anyone else is worth my time to download a new client to play an old version of my character. If your not on that server and really think your hot, then pay for the transfer.

[MondoGrunday]

I don't have risia and not you, or not anyone else is worth my time to download a new client to play an old version of my character. If your not on that server and really think your hot, then pay for the transfer.


translation: if i actually met ren for a competition, I'd get my ass handed to me. so its not worth my time to do it.

also, your post was a flame, there was nothing in it to educate me why weapon finesse was a poor decision and the oher posts gave me an informative opinion as to why said feat was a bad idea. you may or may not know things about barb building, shade. i can't say for sure I've not played on your server. what I do know is you need to put more skill points into your own people skills. :cool:

bach bach bach baaagaaaaach

[Hanam]

A barb will never have good ac, decent ac maybe but even using +5 mith fp 16 dex is the most you need for ac. And if your going for madstone boots like everyone else dose then 12 base and you have enough. Dex is only good for twf and reflex save not ac.

On a fighter its different because you have armor mastery, but even on a dwarf barb i don't know where you would find the enhancments for it.

So odd... I seem to have the ability to take dwarven armor mastery enhancements on my barbarian... but.. wouldn't that make me be able to get 3 more AC? :eek:

[nbhs275]

building a dex barbarian is dumb.

Lets see. Dex based barbarrian has : Lower to hit
Lower damage
1 less feat from weapon finesse
stuck with only finesse weapons
zero actual DPS and can do squat to any real opponent

2 levels of ranger is going to lower your crit ability, and not give much benefit(bow str is rather useless when your melee ability would be so much more potent with barbarian 14)

wands are slow, and arent much use in combat as you have to switch out of your weapons.

[Fallout]

Stat damaging weapons are good for living critible mobs. Especially basing on a W/P weapon. What if devs decide puncturing is on a natural 20 only? Right now mobs have over inflated HP but regular level of con, so W/P are sick. But that can change with any updated.

It depends what your goals are. If its for fun, then go for it. But if you're going for uber build, might not be it.

[MondoGrunday]

building a dex barbarian is dumb.

Lets see. Dex based barbarrian has : Lower to hit
Lower damage
1 less feat from weapon finesse
stuck with only finesse weapons
zero actual DPS and can do squat to any real opponent

2 levels of ranger is going to lower your crit ability, and not give much benefit(bow str is rather useless when your melee ability would be so much more potent with barbarian 14)

wands are slow, and arent much use in combat as you have to switch out of your weapons.

dex build is not the point, i had to have high dex for twf, i am maxing str. so technically its a str build with high dex for twf. i have w/p rapiers and was going to use finesse to get dex bonus but have since changed this due to advice given here.
my crit ability is not much lower with taking 2 ranger levels and i find bow str. with my high str. to begin with great at ranging when i can't reach to melee.
i can still dps with all my rage enhancements and do great stat damage. so far i love wand usage to cure my own poison and cure serious wounds. if the wand is slow or not doesn't really matter since i will be raged most of the time and can't use it till i'm unraged anyway. i use the cure wands to lessen the burden of the cleric and to top up between fights. im level 8 right now and it has been awesome to not have to rely totally on a cleric, which is one of the main points to this build.
i currently outkill most of the pure barbs i grp with ( i know this doesn't mean much because many other factors come into play, i think it has more to do with my weaps than anything else). i have good dps and don't use exclusively finesse weaps. as for 'real opponent' im assuming u mean end bosses, which I have not had any trouble with at all. i won't do as much damage as a power attack two hander, but i have that build already (see sig).
if they change the game to crit on 20 only then i'm euchered yet again by the dev's changing the game after i build a toon, it wouldn't be the first time. I have to build my toons around what i know, and what is current. they may also change the game so ac matters in which case my high dex will be very beneficial to my barb while im raging.

your points are well taken nbh, but you have to remember I'm not totally dps and I'm not wanting to make a cookie cutter dwarf barb either.
i will be a self healing, twf, stat damaging umd dwarf barb.:D something new and hasn't been done a million times over. maybe for a reason, we'll find out by level 16 which is what this toon is designed for.

so far clerics love me since most barbs drain clerics. only significant weakness is low will save, so i took iron will instead of finesse. at 14 barb/2 ranger i will get indom will, can't wait.

[nbhs275]

dex build is not the point, i had to have high dex for twf, i am maxing str. so technically its a str build with high dex for twf. i have w/p rapiers and was going to use finesse to get dex bonus but have since changed this due to advice given here.
my crit ability is not much lower with taking 2 ranger levels and i find bow str. with my high str. to begin with great at ranging when i can't reach to melee.
i can still dps with all my rage enhancements and do great stat damage. so far i love wand usage to cure my own poison and cure serious wounds. if the wand is slow or not doesn't really matter since i will be raged most of the time and can't use it till i'm unraged anyway. i use the cure wands to lessen the burden of the cleric and to top up between fights. im level 8 right now and it has been awesome to not have to rely totally on a cleric, which is one of the main points to this build.
i currently outkill most of the pure barbs i grp with ( i know this doesn't mean much because many other factors come into play, i think it has more to do with my weaps than anything else). i have good dps and don't use exclusively finesse weaps. as for 'real opponent' im assuming u mean end bosses, which I have not had any trouble with at all. i won't do as much damage as a power attack two hander, but i have that build already (see sig).
if they change the game to crit on 20 only then i'm euchered yet again by the dev's changing the game after i build a toon, it wouldn't be the first time. I have to build my toons around what i know, and what is current. they may also change the game so ac matters in which case my high dex will be very beneficial to my barb while im raging.

your points are well taken nbh, but you have to remember I'm not totally dps and I'm not wanting to make a cookie cutter dwarf barb either.
i will be a self healing, twf, stat damaging umd dwarf barb.:D something new and hasn't been done a million times over. maybe for a reason, we'll find out by level 16 which is what this toon is designed for.

so far clerics love me since most barbs drain clerics. only significant weakness is low will save, so i took iron will instead of finesse. at 14 barb/2 ranger i will get indom will, can't wait.

I was just posting based on your original post.

As far as needing an exceptionally high dex, 15 or 16 is enough, and no really benefit to further increase it (unless you want the wopping +1-2 bonus on ranged attacks)

The 2 ranger levels really arent better, as any non **** melee will use healing potions, which are quicker to use, although more expensive.