Dynamic Fighter

[Dylos_Moon]

Just wanted to see what people think of this build, the main point of it is being able to tumble into a group of creatures, hit intimidate and then Cleave, Great Cleave, Whirlwind for massive group damage (and drawing aggro away from the caster). Not really sure if Combat Reflexes is needed, and I may need to fit Fighter's Armor Mastery into the enhancements if I plan on using my +5 elven chainmail. Comments/Suggestions/Criticism is welcome. Also, I can't think of a name, lol.


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Dynamic Fighter
Level 14 Chaotic Good Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 166
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 13
Will: 3

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 17 24
Dexterity 16 18
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 13 13
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 7 9
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 1 1
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device 5 6
Haggle 3 4
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 4
Intimidate 3 20
Jump 7 24
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 3 4
Open Lock 7 9
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 1 1
Spot 3 4
Swim 7 12
Tumble 7 21
Use Magic Device 3 4

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 2 (Rogue)

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 5 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery I

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Fighter Mobility I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II

Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II

Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Mobility II

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Whirlwind Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III

Level 11 (Fighter)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III

Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Mobility III
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity II

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate IV

[Blazer]

By "Combat Reflexes" do you mean Combat Expertise? Or do you mean Lightning Reflexes?

[Dylos_Moon]

By "Combat Reflexes" do you mean Combat Expertise? Or do you mean Lightning Reflexes?

I mean Lightning Reflexes, Combat Expertise is required for Whirlwind Attack.

Yea, I posted this late last night I was probably psudo-tired and messed up the feat name.

[Blazer]

I had a lvl 13 fighter (mule now) who's got the same feat chain. Massive aggro generation between Intimidate and the AOE attack feats. She was a lot of fun, being able to flex from PA to CE, either DPS or tank, but her poor saves made it tough for me to play her in the higher content. Then again, I am a saves junkie.

Regarding Lightning Reflexes - if you're going to have Evasion, you'll need that Reflex save to crest into the 20s to see it go off reliably. I think you'll need it since with a +4 resistance item and a +6 DEX item you're just hitting 20.

[ErgonomicCat]

Just wanted to see what people think of this build, the main point of it is being able to tumble into a group of creatures, hit intimidate and then Cleave, Great Cleave, Whirlwind for massive group damage (and drawing aggro away from the caster).

What's your survival plan after that? You're at 166 hp and an AC in the high 20s to low 30's (4 dex + 5 Chain + 5 bonus) + misc. Are you going to rely on mobility to boost your AC such that you go in, hit hard, and tumble out with a high AC, then the mobs die before their wrath falls too firmly on you?

[Dylos_Moon]

What's your survival plan after that? You're at 166 hp and an AC in the high 20s to low 30's (4 dex + 5 Chain + 5 bonus) + misc. Are you going to rely on mobility to boost your AC such that you go in, hit hard, and tumble out with a high AC, then the mobs die before their wrath falls too firmly on you?

Actually, after I've grabbed all that aggro, i can switch to sword and board and then turn on combat expertise, which would bump me up to mid 40s in AC (or mid 50s while tumbling). Additionally, yes they have 166 hp, before a con item and possibly a Greater False Life item. With a +6 con item and GFL they get to 240+ after Agents of Argo favor.

[Dylos_Moon]

I had a lvl 13 fighter (mule now) who's got the same feat chain. Massive aggro generation between Intimidate and the AOE attack feats. She was a lot of fun, being able to flex from PA to CE, either DPS or tank, but her poor saves made it tough for me to play her in the higher content. Then again, I am a saves junkie.

Regarding Lightning Reflexes - if you're going to have Evasion, you'll need that Reflex save to crest into the 20s to see it go off reliably. I think you'll need it since with a +4 resistance item and a +6 DEX item you're just hitting 20.

Yea, I can see the problems with the saves on this character, with the current equipment I'm planning, the saves are only +17/+25/+14 with Greater Heroism. (of the equipment I'm planning over half of it is semi static end items from quest chains or stuff I already have)

Additionally, even with Greater Hero, I'm having trouble boosting intimidate over 30 with my current equipment set unless I can get the helm from Von6.

Equipment:
Goggles: Spectacular Optics (+4 Reflex, +3 Protection)
Helmet: Nightforge Darkhelm (Will Save +5, Wisdom +2)
Necklace: Golden Cartouche (+3 Umd, +1 Int)/Con +6 Necklace
Trinket: Mummified Bat (+5 Listen, +5 Spot, Feather Falling)
Cloak: Misc Greater Resist Cloaks or Resistance +4/+5 Cloak
Belt: Ogre Power Belt (+6 Str)
Ring (Right): Ring of Heavy Fort
Gloves: Rabbit Gloves (+1 Luck)
Boots: Boots of Tumbling (+15 Tumble)
Ring (Left): Ring of Balance (+13 Balance, Stability, Natural Armor Bonus +2)
Bracers: Inferno Bracers (+6 Dex)
Armor: +5 Elven Chainmail (+10 Armor, +4 Max Dex Bonus)

[Blazer]

Yeah, you'll need to find a spot for a +10 Intimidate item. Not sure if you'll be able to fit one in permanently, so you may need to swap it in and out as you intimidate. For example, if you can find a ring on the AH, you can use it, intimidate, then put your Ring of Balance back on for the AC/Balance boost.

[ErgonomicCat]

Actually, after I've grabbed all that aggro, i can switch to sword and board and then turn on combat expertise, which would bump me up to mid 40s in AC (or mid 50s while tumbling). Additionally, yes they have 166 hp, before a con item and possibly a Greater False Life item. With a +6 con item and GFL they get to 240+ after Agents of Argo favor.

Fair enough.

So, building this to 28 point, what would you drop? I'm thinking Dex to 14, even though it's painful to do...

[Dylos_Moon]

Fair enough.

So, building this to 28 point, what would you drop? I'm thinking Dex to 14, even though it's painful to do...

yea, either lower dex, or lower str and/or con lower str would probually hurt less since it doest affect saves

[Hence]

Good thing to remember.. all your tumble score has to be is 1 to be able to tumble effectively. No need for a tumble +15 item really.

Besides that, I would drop the rogue levels and go full fighter. Evasion does not help much when actually fighting, it helps with traps, but that is it.
I have a similar 32 point build that I am to lazy to level up since my main is a fighter anyway. But I wanted a high intimidate, cleave, great cleave and whirlwind.

Also, I started with a 12 int, and used a +1 int tome to get combat expertise.
If you loose the levels of Rogue and Evasion, you would also free up lightning reflexs for something like Improved Critical Peirce or the Improved Shield Blocking feat that gives you more blocking DR which is very important.

[ErgonomicCat]

Besides that, I would drop the rogue levels and go full fighter. Evasion does not help much when actually fighting, it helps with traps, but that is it.


A

Evasion protects against every spell that allows a reflex save.

That list includes:

Burning Hands
Grease
Web
Flaming Sphere
Lightning Bolt
Fireball
Fire Trap
Symbol of Flame
Ball Lightning
Cone of Cold
Chain Lightning
Freezing Sphere
DB Fireball
Glyph of Warding
Flame Strike
Blade Barrier
Cometfall
Greater Glyph of Warding

That's not an inconsequential list.

[Dylos_Moon]

Evasion protects against every spell that allows a reflex save.

That list includes:

Burning Hands
Grease
Web
Flaming Sphere
Lightning Bolt
Fireball
Fire Trap
Symbol of Flame
Ball Lightning
Cone of Cold
Chain Lightning
Freezing Sphere
DB Fireball
Glyph of Warding
Flame Strike
Blade Barrier
Cometfall
Greater Glyph of Warding

That's not an inconsequential list.

it's also important to note that most trap save DCs are higher then most enemy spell caster save DCs making evasion more worthwhile against spells then against traps. The tumble +15 boots are so I can reach a +50 to +60 tumble fully buffed, meaning if I change trinkets I don't really need feather falling. Additionally, this is a Dynamic character, meaning dexterous and very showy (hench high tumble, doing back/front flips in the middle of combat looks showy but accomplishes little other then moving around faster) Tumble can also be useful to get out of a spell's range quickly, get behind someone, or anything else that requires quick movement, it's very important for this character IMO.

As for Evasion, really I decided to multiclass rogue for tumble as a "class" skill, but theres no point to have a fighter with an odd number of fighter levels and 1 rogue level, you always want to keep your end game fighter levels even, so rogue 2 makes more sense.