Build: Dex Sorc (not for contest)

[Varis]

This is something I wanted to post a long time ago being a long time supporter of armor class and dexterity even on sorcerers.



Dexterity Sorcerer

In general, it is agreed that the two main stats of a Sorcerer are Charisma and Constitution. That is a fair assessment and will hold true in the future as well. A high fortitude save and a good amount of hit points will be more and more important as we will have to endure 8th and 9th level spells.

That is not the only basis to a Sorcerer however. For an elf or drow, dexterity is a racial strength while constitution is a weakness. In order to go the classic high con, max charisma route with those races, it will require heavy sacrifices.

Getting a 14 constitution on a drow or elf will cost 10 points during character creation
Getting a 14 constitution on a human or halfling will cost 6 points during character creation.

Drow..................vs................Drow
8 Strength.............................8 Strength
*16 Dexterity..........................*12 Dexterity
*12 Constitution......................*14 Dexterity
10 Intelligence.......................10 Intelligence
8 Wisdom..............................8 Wisdom
20 Charisma...........................20 Charisma

Ok, so the left Drow has more points overall…. So? What good does extra dexterity do? Increase the armor class from 11 to 13? At the expense of fewer hit points?

Here is why!
Armor, weapons and saves. In short, overall combat survivability.
Some may insist that only hit points increase survivability but that is not true. In fact, you are only 14 hit points behind the „tough“ drow at the current cap level

Armor: there is much that can increase armor, even for a sorcerer. Especially drow and elves are well suited to wear armor and cast in them. Let’s have a look

10 base
+15 mithral chain shirt
+7 mithral heavy shield / shield spell (+4 only)
+5 cloak of protection
+3 barkskin potion / seal of earth
+2 chaos guarde
------
42 AC / 44 blocking
with some buffs you can get that to
45 AC / 47 blocking

max possible (with chattering ring and buffs)
50 AC / 52 blocking

Those are some high numbers with top end gear but it is to show you that a high armor class IS possible even for a sorcerer AND retain no penalty to casting.

To reduce or negate the arcane spell failure penalty that comes with armor you can use: Twilight and/or mithral armor, arcane fluidity enhancement or 7 fingered gloves.

To be realistic though, it is more likely you will end up with a high 30’s or very low 40’s AC on your sorcerer. That’s fine. You don’t fully depend on armor class, it is merely a factor that in combination with your spells will make you incredibly tough to kill.

Here is why… in giant hold with a 40ish AC, an ogre berserker will hit you roughly half the time. You find that out by checking your combat log and count how many misses and how many hits you took. So no, they do NOT automatically hit. That is still far too much, especially if you have several ogres at melee.
So here is the other piece of the puzzle. Spells! On top of your respectable armor class you add DISPLACEMENT, STONESKIN, JUMP, HEAVY FORTIFICATION and haste.

On normal it will be incredibly difficult for them to hit you although on elite it is a different matter. See for yourself.

(Trial by fire elite, self buffs only)
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=nn3638&s=2

As you can see, while on elite the troll did hit me quite often, it is by no means an „automatic hit“. The damage is also kept reasonable.

Another thing to note are the saving throws, especially the reflex save. While not up there with rogues and rangers, it is much higher then most casters.
The philosophy so far has been, put on resist and get 200+ HP… ok… but the problem of taking a lot of damage is not solved.

So not only does the dex sorcerer benefit from a stronger defense against melee, he also takes far less damage from most damage spells because he can actually make the save and the resist energy can keep up with negating the/most of the rest.

Sure, all things are equally screwed in front of an elite disintegrate but remember that you are only 14 HP behind a „con“ drow.

More of a novelty but good to know; A sorcerer can HIT things!!! That’s right, with greater heroism, haste and a decent weapon you can hit nearly any opponent in the game reliably. The force of your blow compares to Vanilla Ice unfortunantly. Gotta get good weapons and only use it to finish off monsters that are very low already.

(TIP: If you have the tenderizer (or equivalent stunner), beat on them until they get stunned, then quickly switch to puncturers to finish the job. That combo will kill anything you can crit and stun even on elite)

Soloing is very possible as a dex sorcerer even if you are specialised on damage. For example Trial by Fire is very possible to just blast through even on elite, even though they have a ton of HP and even though there is a lot of them. Charming your way through is NOT the only way.
(example: Trial by fire elite)
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=rmi7eu&s=2
(example: old von3 movie)
http://stage6.divx.com/user/VarisRoa/video/1073030/Vault-of-Night



In order to be a dex sorc, or an armored sorc, you do not need a "special" spell selection or choice in feats, it is more of a core difference. All flavor sorcerer can come as a dex sorcerer (nuker, CCer, insta killer, etc), it is just a matter of investing in armor and reflex save instead of just hit points.

If you have any questions, lemme know.

- Roa

[Aspenor]

I contest this thread!! No, JK man. All very good advice and well thought-out.

[Impaqt]

How do you plan on Keeping your AC up in the 40's and keep Spell Pen, Lore, and Potency up?

You also sacrifice the Quick interchangability of Robes.

Fact is, Haste, Jump, Displacement and Stoneskin is all thats really necessary to keep Most Arcanes on their feet.

[Varis]

How do you plan on Keeping your AC up in the 40's and keep Spell Pen, Lore, and Potency up?

You also sacrifice the Quick interchangability of Robes.

Fact is, Haste, Jump, Displacement and Stoneskin is all thats really necessary to keep Most Arcanes on their feet.

that is true to a point. If you need spell pen, you don't need potency and vice versa. it is easy to manage your main and offhand.

With a 40ish jump and feather fall you can also avoid quite a bit of trouble along with some clever movement. What displacement and stoneskin CAN'T deal with is quantity. A group of archers, a horde of fast monsters or the ultimate nightmare, no space to move.

I'm not saying AC replaces buffs but enhances them. It is an alternative to a few more hit points. I'm saying that a 150 HP dex sorcerer will survive longer and then a 250 HP con sorcerer.

Another important point I found was recovery. When you are at 10 or 20 HP because you messed up a few seconds ago, chugging a cure serious potion won't cut it. Not on a con build because you take damage too easily. A heal scroll or a handy cleric will be needed but the moments you need to wait for that heal are far more risky as a con sorcerer.

There is just a lot that makes dex a solid alternative to con for a sorcerer.

[MrWizard]

How do you plan on Keeping your AC up in the 40's and keep Spell Pen, Lore, and Potency up?

You also sacrifice the Quick interchangability of Robes.

Fact is, Haste, Jump, Displacement and Stoneskin is all thats really necessary to keep Most Arcanes on their feet.


I agree if you play a certain way...but not for everyone...
I never need or use displacement, haste, and my jump is good enough with str/skill points I do not need it...
Haste-25% striders
displacement - blur is fine but seldom use it either..good ac and enlarge feat and they never get close.
Stoneskin- not needed if you do not get hit.

In regards to whole thread...


I never put anything in intel on my sorc...to me it is a waste

Con I put to 11 or 13......+6 con item and a tome and I am at 18 or 20 con...good enough for saves and stuff....

High dex helps me in balance checks, trap saves, armor class, even with my destruction and paralyzing light crossbow to hit.

I add some strength to again deal with speed, skill checks (such as jump and other combat related str checks), and ability to survive without deathward when dealing with str draining undead...

I usually cap out my charisma for my sorc unless I am doing aweird build like a true nuker or battle nuker (you do not need a DC check for direct damage spells, so put the points elsewhere). But I seldom do those types as I personally find them limiting.

I think any build is good though....massive hit points or good ac or good saves.... just depends on what you are doing....

Just have fun...and do not be afraid of playing with your stats...I have a caster with max dex and charisma and 8s everywhere else....he is fine and does great. And is great with a repeater.

[MrWizard]

Soloing is very possible as a dex sorcerer even if you are specialised on damage. For example Trial by Fire is very possible to just blast through even on elite, even though they have a ton of HP and even though there is a lot of them. Charming your way through is NOT the only way.
(example: Trial by fire elite)
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=rmi7eu&s=2


Um....On thelanis, with the help of the AVATAR guild, I developed (though others might have also done it too) a way to just run through the whole dungeon and get to the gate by the entrance...no charm..no firewalls....

Then just cloudkill and sold fog works...firewall is good too...most get stuck near the first named....just Fod him..open the second gate..fod him...run out fod the thrid guy...hit shrine....ckill anything that comes to the shrine...
take back entrance to the end guy...

okay,.,,,,a little charm.....using enlarge, charm the troll and oracle with the end guy, using your great spell pen, takle out the spiders....throw some fog and cone of cold him or acid him down while he is aggored on the charmed guys...

done...solo....only take a few minutes...

if in trouble, jump to the bottom of the lava get chest and run up....

[Impaqt]

that is true to a point. If you need spell pen, you don't need potency and vice versa. it is easy to manage your main and offhand.

With a 40ish jump and feather fall you can also avoid quite a bit of trouble along with some clever movement. What displacement and stoneskin CAN'T deal with is quantity. A group of archers, a horde of fast monsters or the ultimate nightmare, no space to move.

I'm not saying AC replaces buffs but enhances them. It is an alternative to a few more hit points. I'm saying that a 150 HP dex sorcerer will survive longer and then a 250 HP con sorcerer.

Another important point I found was recovery. When you are at 10 or 20 HP because you messed up a few seconds ago, chugging a cure serious potion won't cut it. Not on a con build because you take damage too easily. A heal scroll or a handy cleric will be needed but the moments you need to wait for that heal are far more risky as a con sorcerer.

There is just a lot that makes dex a solid alternative to con for a sorcerer.


It is true to the very end..... OK, You can swap Potency and Spell Pen.. Wheres teh Lore Item go? Your Blue Dragon Robe? nope..... Your wearing a Chain Shirt...

So you advocate 9% fewer Critical Spells with lower damage in order to raise uyour AC a few points.....

it just doesnt make sense to me.......

[Aspenor]

As Impaqt states, this type of build will be forced to sacrifice a portion of its arcane power for armor class. Carrying a shield, you will have no place for either potency or lore, one of the two. Using a mithral chain shirt, you lose the functionality of dragon robes, or you need to use heavy fort on a different item slot. You most definitely won't be doing nearly as much damage as a sorceror dual wielding superior potency and superior fire/ice lore.

I understand that a dex/AC sorc might survive longer...but my con/cha nuker rarely needs to worry about "surviving longer," because most fights are over within 4 or 5 seconds.

[jkm]

i think that's true now asp, but as the new trend with named items seems to be stacking useful items on them, this build will get stronger as we go along. i.e. the new helm with toughness and heavy fort. basically, this is a tradeoff of 14 hit points and 1 fort save for 3 reflex.

the biggest problem i see is the heavy mithral shield instead of the light. on my battlemage, i'll take the occasional spell failure, on my sorc, that just can't happen.

as for trial by fire, there are a ton of ways to beat this as a nuker. the first general humorously is the easiest because he only manages to come out the door 5% of the time. i just run in, drop an emp'd max'd firewall and run back into the hall and drop a firewall there for the spiders/trolls that follow past the queen. then open the front gate in case general #2 hits you with a close range disintegrate. then go drop 3 firewalls in the middle where the 2nd general is, then fod or stone the 3rd general.

as for good ole rort, i normally stack 7 firewalls and then go get his attention with a cone of cold. his survival rate depends on the number of spell crits, but normally he doesn't last long enough to get that pesky cometfall off.

its normally a 12 minute run for 4 chests and an end reward.

[Aspenor]

i think that's true now asp, but as the new trend with named items seems to be stacking useful items on them, this build will get stronger as we go along.

Somewhat true, I'd personally be eyeing the heavyfort/GFL belt, but that's just me.....

[Varis]

It is true to the very end..... OK, You can swap Potency and Spell Pen.. Wheres teh Lore Item go? Your Blue Dragon Robe? nope..... Your wearing a Chain Shirt...

So you advocate 9% fewer Critical Spells with lower damage in order to raise uyour AC a few points.....

it just doesnt make sense to me.......

I'll explain it so it makes more sense (off work so I can take my time for a response heh)

Mainhand, potency
Offhand, lore
Armor, chain
- There is no need for spell penetration or focus items when you use potency or lore.

or

Mainhand, focus enchantment + necro
offhand, spell penetration
armor, chain
- there is no need for potency or lore items when you use focus and penetration.

I think what confuses people is the shield. When you are nuking or crowd controlling, you do NOT wear a shield (ok in certain situations). You cast the SPELL "shield" so your AC is only 2 or 3 points lower. The heavy shield is for when you got your wall of fire up, the entire dungeon is excited and eager to thank you for it personally so you need massive DR and AC. The heavy shield is for when you run through a dungeon solo, ignoring everything until that one massive battle. The heavy shield is for when no matter what the party does, ALL the archers have arrows with your name on it.


Again, this is NOT to replace a CON sorcerer but a viable ALTERNATIVE.

[Impaqt]

I'll explain it so it makes more sense (off work so I can take my time for a response heh)

Mainhand, potency
Offhand, lore
Armor, chain
- There is no need for spell penetration or focus items when you use potency or lore.

or

Mainhand, focus enchantment + necro
offhand, spell penetration
armor, chain
- there is no need for potency or lore items when you use focus and penetration.

I think what confuses people is the shield. When you are nuking or crowd controlling, you do NOT wear a shield (ok in certain situations). You cast the SPELL "shield" so your AC is only 2 or 3 points lower. The heavy shield is for when you got your wall of fire up, the entire dungeon is excited and eager to thank you for it personally so you need massive DR and AC. The heavy shield is for when you run through a dungeon solo, ignoring everything until that one massive battle. The heavy shield is for when no matter what the party does, ALL the archers have arrows with your name on it.


Again, this is NOT to replace a CON sorcerer but a viable ALTERNATIVE.

I understood exactly what you said just fine... At this point your changing what you said.... Now your not using a Sheild while Nuking..... Your dual weilidng like most other sorcs.....

I'm certainly not saying this isnt an acceptable alternative to haveing 14-28 more hit points..... It just my opinion that you are wasting valuable equipment sots in order to get your ac up to the 40ish range.....

Gloves: You need a rare raid drop in order to offset arcane spell failure from Armor/Sheild

Bracers: Your using Chaos guards. THis slot is a very populare Spell Focus Slot

Cloak of Protection: Common +4 Resistance item.. Or better yet the Reaver napkin is better suited for a sorc.

Seal of the Earth: another Raid item that takes up a Valuable Ring Slot.

Armor: Slow Swap out time means your going to have to rely on Spells for Resistance..... Or Rare Rings, SInce your CLoak slot is taken up.

Then ya throw a Chattering RIng inthere to eat up the second Ring Slot...

So that Leaves us with....

Helm: Probobly CHR Item since RIngs and Cloaks are used up.
Trinket: POP? Torc?
Necklace: nothing real useful for a Sorc here... Personally, I'd put a Reaver Necklace here, Lose the one AC so I can have my Cloak slot back...

Boots: These have to Be Dex Boots as Gloves, Bracers and Rings are used up



See where I'm going here???

Getting a High AC On Paper is Very easy..... Getting a High AC... On a Arcane.... while Posible... SImply Isnt practical because you have to rely on some pretty rare stuff and Raid gear... and when it comes down to it, your swapping stuff out all the time.

Any SOrc can do what you propose with enough determinatin.. The extra 2 AC from your Dex is all that your really gain... you end up losing on your reflex save because you have nowhere to put a Resistance item all the time.

The AC Build Sorce here is truly only practical for the High Octane, Twitch Power Gamer. The one whos moving all the time.. Playing al the time.. and doesnt mind adding dozens of extra clicks inorder to swap gear out for the next posible situation.

The CON Build Sorc is save for anyone... Your dont have to rely on any Raid items, rare Drops, and surviveability is still very high with Haste, Displacement, and Stoneskin up.

[CSFurious]

this is what i know, i.e., unless you ac is over 50, you are going to get hit on elite content in this game at the high levels & it might even have to be over 55 to avoid taking consistent damage

anyway, my sor stays alive because of:

haste, blur, displacement, false life, greater heroism, stoneskin, jump, ring of spell resistance 19, robe of heavy fortification, bag of jerky, smart play & 158 hitpoints before buffs

i think her ac is about 15 & she rarely ever dies

anyway, ac on a sor is really not very important

i think you are just bored with the game & if this what you need to do to keep on playing then so be it

[Varis]

sigh... what is this build missing? What am I swapping around all the time?

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=nn3638&s=2

From the screen shot...

Armor Class 43
Fortification 100%
Fortitude +18
Reflex +22
Will +21

Charisma 34
Hit points 162 (my belt is improved false life only and ring is only con+5)
Spell Points 1831


what exactly am I missing here?
Where am I lacking?

what am I swapping out??? mainhand-offhand? Sure... so do you.... what about the full bar or robes you swap out? Nope, not here...

this is so confusing, I have a SCREEN SHOT that shows all the numbers you could possible want to see.


Here is my item list...

Head- wis +5 (AH purchase)
Neck- nightforge gorget (100% fort, takes 1 BAM run solo...)
Jewel- power X (got that in threnal back when the cap was 10...)
cloak- charisma +6 (traded on forums)
belt - improved false life, str +2
ring1- resistance +4 (AH purchase)
ring2- con +5 (cabal for one reward)
glove- 7 fingered glove "RAID ITEM!!! zomg!!!" (substitute with arcane fluidity...)
boots- dex +6 (I got lucky.. meant I only had to get elven dex1, instead of 2)
bracers- chaos guarde (farm xorian like the rest of us...)
goggles- spectacular optics (thenal final reward)

Armor, mithral chain shirt +5 (from giant caves, got a 2nd set from AH)

I switch out my necklace for: underwater action, remove poisen clicky
I switch out my boots for: featherfall boots



sorry, but in my experience this item list is pretty average for todays standards.

[Impaqt]

Why doesnt your list inthe OP match your list in that one?

COngrats.... You can acheive a 40AC when Dual Weilding..... 40 AC simply doesnt impress me....... Or Level 12+Elite Mobs.....

[Rameses]

I don't get it. I've read this and there are some very well thought out ideas posted here. And yet, I am still remiss as to why someone would think that a 40'ish AC is good when mixed in with low hit points.

I run a Wizard with a 14'ish AC and 230 hit points and I've yet to see the need for AC. Displacement and Blur should be a perfect replacement to AC if a creature manages to save all your best attempts at killing the offending attacker.

I am, Rameses!

[Varis]

I don't get it. I've read this and there are some very well thought out ideas posted here. And yet, I am still remiss as to why someone would think that a 40'ish AC is good when mixed in with low hit points.

I run a Wizard with a 14'ish AC and 230 hit points and I've yet to see the need for AC. Displacement and Blur should be a perfect replacement to AC if a creature manages to save all your best attempts at killing the offending attacker.

I am, Rameses!

until of course you are dispelled ;)

anyways, I posted a SS of the combat log with an elite troll. I posted it because people simply do not believe that there is ANY point in 40AC on elite content. The Screen shot shows that the troll misses on some of his attacks. That shows that while he has no trouble hitting you, it is NOT an automatic hit. Even if he only needs a 5 or better to hit me, combined with displacement you get better then a 50% chance to avoid damage.

This means overall you take less damage and even though you have a few less hit points, you are in less danger at melee.

This also means that when you eat a nuke, your higher reflex save gives you a better chance at taking half damage which in turn puts you less at risk from casters.


I can summarize it like this... when the **** hits the fan you are better off with higher saves and higher AC then with 14 more hit points.

In a normal situation a sorcerer can be unbuffed and naked... things will die before they get to him.

[Impaqt]

OK, I deceided to go through your Screenshot and see just how much good your 43 AC did...

Results:

27 Attacks
23 Hits.

14 Hits were "Displaced"
9 Hits Landed
4 times they Missed you

72 Points of damage wer Absorbed by your Heavy Sheild
89 Points of Damage was absorbed by Stoneskin

You Took 80 Points of Damage on those 9 Hits (AFter DR)

You were being hit 85% Of the time with a 43 AC...

Sure seems to me your Spells(ANd a Clerics Recitation) helped you a Whole lot more than your AC in that Graphic.

As for the 4 Misses... You Simply cannot tell me you've never seen four 1's over the course of 27 Rolls in your combat log........ I wont believe it.

Also, I do not see any indication that the quest is indeed set to Elite. The Troll Isnt even highlighted so we can see the CR Rating.

[MrWizard]

I dont see an issue with his shield and all since you can easily add a weapon set for the lore/pot itmes....then switch right back...in a sec.

my old fighter sorc used to do that...til I killed his sorry butt.

[sigtrent]

Impaqt: come on now.. while your anaylasis is generaly handy, complaining about verifying it bieng on elite or the trolls CR is just silly. They guy doesn't have any reason to lie about it.

I've got more or less the same character but a wizard with a fighter level. I don't have him quite so geared up on AC but I can get pretty close if I try..
(+9 mith chaiin, +6 mith light shield, +3 nat armor, +4 deflection, +6 dex) = 38

Slots are not an issue generaly although as a wizard my casting stat is on goggles which is a bit easier than the cloak. Yes indeed you remove the shield when you need to cast, although for spells up to level 4 I have a Sup Pot helmet, and you only need spell pen when dealing with spell resist which is about half the time at most. So about half the time you can go wtih a shield and about half without. Its only 2 AC anyhow.

Kurzun clocks in at 160HP with greater false life (no +6 con yet though). AC is 35-45 depending on circumstance. Heavy fort, displacement stoneskin yada yada yada. Is 2-4 AC better than 20-60 HP? It really depends on the situation. If you have a good healer the HP is probably better, if you need to survive in a sustained fight the AC is probably a bit better. Ultimately displacement jump and haste are better than either of them at simply avoiding attacks. But its a layered thing... that which gets past the first, runs into the second etc... the more layers you have, the safer you are.

But all that is not really the point of my build. Kurzun is a 13 Wiz with 32 int so he isn't lacking much in the casting department. On the flip side I can run a +36 (on the first swing +46 on #4) to hit with my Wounding Rapier of Puncturing and Shortsword of Backstabbing if I want to. Granted that is some elite combat gear but a con/casting build can't do that in any way shape or form. Do they need to? Nope. Is it fun and powerful to pull that off? Yep. Am I using Divine Power/ yes sir, but all my DP clickies are bracers, same slot as my normal STR item so I loose nothing to use them since DP replaces the STR bonus and STR is only good for a bit o bonus damage anyhow.

But what others said is true. If you want the standard, go for Con/Casting its reliable and easy. If you want to try and get fancy and work the system a bit, Dex/Casting has some cool tricks up its sleeve. (although don't go too low on the con... its scary down there.)

[Impaqt]

Impaqt: come on now.. while your anaylasis is generaly handy, complaining about verifying it bieng on elite or the trolls CR is just silly. They guy doesn't have any reason to lie about it.


I think I may be reading too many posts from the Xoriats..... THe Whole "Screen Shot or it didnt happen" thing is gettin to me :o

[Shade]

The thing is, yea dex can help. yea con can help, and yea Int can even help.

But none are really superior then any others. They just don't mean very much to a sorcerer to make any really big meaningful difference.

Con like mentioned you just don't get much of on a drow sorc anyways, nor really need a ton. WF or Dwarf can get some great con but take the cha hit.

Dex only makes the difference of a couple AC, nothing meaningful. In the same pic where u tank the troll, my 10 AC sorc can tank him better and take less dmg just by using a tower shield instead of a heavy to get the better DR.

Int is just for skill points but can help on defnese too. Your base 10 gets you concentration and umd, but 12 or more gets you skills like jump and balance, which can help a little bit.

Either way, there no big difference between picking the 3 secondary stats. Doing all you mentionned is just a matter of max cha and equipment, bit of dex doesn't change that.

[sigtrent]

Dang Shade... I'm going to have to change my opinion about you. :)

I totaly agree, there are different strengths you can play to and each of them has some advantages. The key is almost always taking what you got and making the very most of it.

PS: I gave you a shout out in the next DDOcast podcast because I used your posts on glancing blows as a reference for their damage range.

[Varis]

The thing is, yea dex can help. yea con can help, and yea Int can even help.

But none are really superior then any others. They just don't mean very much to a sorcerer to make any really big meaningful difference.

Con like mentioned you just don't get much of on a drow sorc anyways, nor really need a ton. WF or Dwarf can get some great con but take the cha hit.

Dex only makes the difference of a couple AC, nothing meaningful. In the same pic where u tank the troll, my 10 AC sorc can tank him better and take less dmg just by using a tower shield instead of a heavy to get the better DR.

Int is just for skill points but can help on defnese too. Your base 10 gets you concentration and umd, but 12 or more gets you skills like jump and balance, which can help a little bit.

Either way, there no big difference between picking the 3 secondary stats. Doing all you mentionned is just a matter of max cha and equipment, bit of dex doesn't change that.

heh yeah, when all is said and done, my base dex is only 4 points ahead. That's 2 AC. Putting on armor and getting the dex up to 24 or 26 is another story though. You don't see a 12 base dex sorc work hard to get his dex to 20. They don't care to begin with.
Someone that does not care about dex will also not have a high AC.
"What's the point" is the argument.


Tanking the troll was just to show people that it can be done even on elite. That's not to say I recommend running into a room full of trolls and hit shield mode. I did not think I had to clarify that.... It was just a worst case scenario. You will really feel the difference when getting dragon or queen ready and many other quests.

Still, Shade made a good point (cough, I'm choking here making a compliment) that there is not much difference, that the benefits of con, dex and int are similar in how much they benefit in their own way.

This does not mean that 16dex,12con > 12 dex,14con
it MEANS 16dex,12con = 12dex,14con

You got a few less HP, you got a bit better defense again physical and magical damage. That has advantages in some situations and disadvantages in others. Overall it is about the same.


That's kinda the point...

A dexterity sorcerer is a viable alternative (I keep saying that...)

I never said that a dex sorcerer is the only way to go, I was also only talking about elves and drow because they get a bonus to dex, enhancement bonus to dex, penalty to con AND access to arcane fluidity.

The race just screams "con bad, see what you can do with dex thx"

[Xyfiel]

It is all about the Wisdom! You can't block or cast when held or commanded!

If you don't have 14 wisdom at creation you are a ignorant noob!

goes back to playing his 8 wis chars