Multi-class enhancement question

[Gnorric]

I am currently making a Rogue (he's a level 5 right now). I am thinking of splashing in the next two levels of Ranger to get the Base Attack, Fort Save improvement and Two Weapon Fighting/Rapid Shot feats. More importantly though I want to get Ranger Spot, Search and Dex so I can save some points on my enhancements and buy up some others higher later.

However, I also have a fighter/paladin and I noticed that having taken Fighter Toughness I do not have the option to also Take Paladin Toughness. So the question is having Taken Rogue Spot, Search and Dex already will I not get the chance to also take Ranger Spot, Search and Dex? If not then I have to rework the levels and points. Considering the Skill point hit I will take it might make me reconsider the splashing in Ranger. He is primarily going to be a trap-monkey although I'd like him to be able to do decent damage as well.

[binnsr]

Class enhancements don't stack (and aren't available once one class is taken - as you saw with the paladin toughness vs. fighter toughness).

[Pfamily]

I believe you can take class and race enhancements and they will stack, but two class enhancement lines will not stack. You don't mention your race, Elves do get a dex/spot/search line of enhancements you could stack with either the rogue or ranger lines. Don't know about other races off the top of my head.

You will definitely take a skill pt hit if you take a class other than rogue.

Good luck!

[binnsr]

Also, when in doubt, plug your race and class levels into this page. (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/%7Edelallea/ddo/enh/) It's what I use for all my enhancement respec needs..

[Gnorric]

Yeah I'm already taking at least 3 levels of Perception and at least one level of Keen Eyes plus the Elven Dex. I wanted to try to get at least a +7 in Search though to make it more likely I can do that silly Cabal chest. But with all the other enhancements Ill be taking I can't really afford to go either Rogue Search IV or Perception IV. Not with two Dex II (Rogue and Elven) Way of the Mechanice, Disable Device IV and Skill Boost IV already costing 4 pts each.

[tc12]

Yeah I'm already taking at least 3 levels of Perception and at least one level of Keen Eyes plus the Elven Dex. I wanted to try to get at least a +7 in Search though to make it more likely I can do that silly Cabal chest. But with all the other enhancements Ill be taking I can't really afford to go either Rogue Search IV or Perception IV. Not with two Dex II (Rogue and Elven) Way of the Mechanice, Disable Device IV and Skill Boost IV already costing 4 pts each.

I'd think with WotM you really don't need Disable IV. Especially if you have Boost IV for the extreme cases. Maybe if you only plan to do Cabal once just to do it then re-train, but otherwise maxing out for just one chest/trap leaves you short in other areas.

Back to the ranger levels, even without being able to stack class enhancements there's still a lot to gain. You mentioned BAB and Fort, but it also gives you 2 more to Reflex too. Base Ro14 is 4/9/4 while Ro12/Ra2 is 7/11/4. So it helps evasion even if improved evasion is delayed 2 levels. Of course there's a lot of other advantages too, FA, no-fail cure wands, etc. It's hard to make a case to NOT splash ranger into a rogue. Not to start a multi vs pure class debate, but of all multi's in the game perhaps none is as obvious as this one...

TC

[Gnorric]

Oh I expect I will still take the two levels of Ranger though I might push it back one level to 7,8. That way I can actually get Way of the Mechanic during the 6th level then make 7 and 8 Dex II levels or something. I know about the Reflex Save and it also gives me one preferred enemy which I will be making undead so I can do a bit more damage to them. I do lose one d6 off the sneak attack but that is not too bad and I get enough skill points to keep up with the big five for the Rogue (Spot, Search, Disable(2pt), Open Lock(2pt), and UMD(2pt)).

[Gnorric]

Just for reference, here's the math I am looking at. For what I saw online you need a 61 search to find that trap on Elite. If I was going to respec right after I could probably make it now but it would be close. As a permanent build it is not too likely.

What I have planned: 17 skills points (level 14), +13 item, +6 Enhancements, 22 Intelligence (+6), Elven Race Modifier (+2), WotM (+2), Skill Focus (+3), Skill Boost (+5), Greater Heroism (Most Parties have a caster with it +4)

17+13+6+6+2+2+3+5+4=58. So I'd need both a +15 item and Bard Inspire Competence to make 61. If I had a +7 in the skills I would only need one or the other. Essentially if I could get a +15 from somewhere I'd be pretty set. As it is I'll be one point short.

[smyter]

Not sure if these stack, but how about prayer and the luck gloves from threnal?

[Gnorric]

I think the luck does stack. Forgot about that one, might be enough to get it. Prayer does not stack with GH I don't believe.

[binnsr]

Luck bonuses do not stack.
Greater Heroism is a Morale bonus - and does stack with luck bonuses. What does not stack with GH is good hope (also a morale bonus)

[Scalion]

As for spells that give stat bonuses, I think you can buy scrolls of recitation to get a +2 bonus you can cast yourself. Greater heroism gives a +4 bonus.

In addition a bard can sing a song to give another +2 bonus (competence bonus I think).

As for multiclassing....

The feat thing is obvious, as well as the saves bit and bab bit.

I suggest you examine very carefully the way you want to spend your ranks when considering multiclassing. Let me give a small example of how correctly planning your skill point allocation can work out to the best advantage.

My rogue is 10 rogue 2 fighter 2 pally and I paid attention to the number of ranks I put into jump and diplomacy on my rogue levels so that I could dump every single rank of my fighter and pally levels into those two skills since they are class skills. If you can work it so that you can some extra ranks into ranger class skills on your ranger levels you'll find it working out well in the end.

The only thing I feel like I sacrificed in the least bit on my rogue as far as ranks go is stealth skills, and haggle (which I do have ranks in all of these skills, but they are not maxed).

I don't know which skills you intend on maxing but it's just something to think about. Also because of the way this works I suggest you don't do both ranger levels back to back but put them in between rogue levels.