What about splashes??? (for casting/UMD etc)

[redoubt]

I've heard many people talk about the second crit enhancement at level 14. Word is its pretty good. But all these builds have no AC to speak of (I mean, but sorcerer has 30AC before he puts on his shield.)

So... The pure damage and high hit point barb normally has low AC and benifits greatly from arcane buffs (i.e. displacement). Are there good multi-class builds that allow you to do some of these buffs yourself (either scroll using UMD or inate casting)?

barb9 / wizard5 comes to mind. You get full level 1&2 spells and 2 level 3 spells, so you can have resists, shield, displacement, blur, haste. And you can get extend with one of the bonus meta-magics. UMD is still low though to minimal CHA, though skill points are high.

Barb13 / bard1. Saw one of these last night. Pretty neat. He said he could rez people even. Not sure how he got the UMD that high. Barb enhancements, hitpoints and damage should be pretty close to pure barb.

Barb12 / rogue 2. Use rogue levels to max out UMD. You also get evasion, though I'm not sure it helps since barbs usually don't have high dex. Even with max UMD ranks the low CHA seems rather limiting on UMD.

Thoughts?

[Shade]

No, just group with a wizard, its not that hard. Theres allot of them around.

Pure builds have no AC? What?

Something wrong with mine then, I have over 60AC sometimes and I'm not even concerned enough with AC to pick up much any related items.

[Tulsa_Doom]

UMD with 8 starting CHA can go at least to 34 UMD skill if not higher after raid loots tomes gear etc. Mine used to be 33 on 11/3 barb/rogue. I got rid of the UMD skill focus and its 30. Still plenty to get in trouble with. I would advise against splashing too many lvls of other class and keep in mind that u cant buff while raged.

BTW Shade your ac of 60 is in optimal conditions with a shield you dont often use in 30 sec bursts.

[Casta]

A pure barb can have decent ac, most just choose not to use a shield, when you decide to go for more dps you normally don't worry about protection items so right there we give alot of ac that doesn't come from a shield.

And about your barb/wiz not only are you giving up crit rage 2 your giving up crit rage 1 at lvl 11, 2 crit range is a huge loss to any barb.

[Shade]

hehe yea basicly only 1 quest in the game and pvp I bother get my AC up.

Yea you can take rogue lvls for umd and other rogue stuff, tulsa's proven is can work awesome. Just know its hard to do it well and you should really have a max lvl pure melee first before you make a multi imo.

[nbhs275]

if your concerned with AC barbarian is not the class for you

[redoubt]

I posted a build using MFP and multiple armor masteries and was told I was wasting points. Skip AC and go HP and DPS. Basic assumption of this discussion. Sorry if there was confusion.

I agree that grouping with a wiz would be great. But then aren't I in a "give me this buff" almost demand situation?

I had a guy ask (and he asked nicely) for displacement in Offering of blood. He had an AC of 26. I was rather shocked since my sorc has an AC of 30 without a shield and I still rely on displacement to stay alive.

If there is a build that has constant 60AC while swinging a massive 2hander for the big numbers... please share. That's why I've been posting in this forum. Seems like there are some good barb builds out there, just harder to get the details.

Thanks again.

P.S. builds that require multiple tomes or lots of +6 stat items are neat and something to strive for in the end. I do like seeing the top end. But also post how to do well without every piece of uber gear you can think of please.

[Tulsa_Doom]

Theres a fine line between too much and too little. The difference between 26 and 30 is minimal and I wouldnt be necessarily proud of either. Not saying you are but even fully raged a barb can hit above thirty. Why do you care about wizs ac, I dont even look at my sorcs. Mobs in Gianthold elite content will cut thru anything to about 50-55 without a blink making ac a tertiary concern for most. A barbarian with a good party will have a decent ac and nice buffs like displacement and blur. You want to be a self buffer and have ok ac, look to the pally wfs, they have what you may be looking for with comparable dps with the right gear and feat/enhancement selections. Hanging up on a barbarians potential ac flaws overlooks their greatest strengths, massive dps and criticals.

As far as builds for barbarians the Shade/Maldini model is solid bang without alot of necessary uber gear. It only gets better with raid gear but can be alot of fun for the newer player. Renegades build is also good in the sense that it capitalizes on the barbs huge crit potential with uber weapons. Not my cup of tea but definitely worth looking at. You want to play with barb multi class? Two levels of fighter can give higher str and more feats. Two to three lvls of rogue can give umd, open lock, backstab bonus and evasion. Downsides is that lvl 14 barbarian offers indomitable will and crit rage 2. I have both multi-class barb and pure barb, I like playing the multi-class more but thats a personal choice. Good luck in finding a build that suits you.

[redoubt]

Theres a fine line between too much and too little. The difference between 26 and 30 is minimal and I wouldnt be necessarily proud of either. Not saying you are but even fully raged a barb can hit above thirty. Why do you care about wizs ac, I dont even look at my sorcs. That is my point. 26 or even 30 seems low. Also note that I said my sorc uses displacement to stay alive even with 30AC (because 30AC isn't much.)

Mobs in Gianthold elite content will cut thru anything to about 50-55 without a blink making ac a tertiary concern for most. A barbarian with a good party will have a decent ac and nice buffs like displacement and blur. You want to be a self buffer and have ok ac, look to the pally wfs, they have what you may be looking for with comparable dps with the right gear and feat/enhancement selections. Hanging up on a barbarians potential ac flaws overlooks their greatest strengths, massive dps and criticals. I don't know yet if I want to be a self buffer. I'm asking lots of question to try to learn from the experts in barbarianism. So far it seems highly slanted toward pure barbs with high str and con and little concern for AC.

As far as builds for barbarians the Shade/Maldini model is solid bang without alot of necessary uber gear. Definately an interesting read while Shade yells for Mal to clean up the post. :) Lots of good data in there, though the 60AC seems to be a very short term thing and even Shade says he doesn't do that all the time. I would like to know the AC he has under most conditions.

It only gets better with raid gear but can be alot of fun for the newer player. Renegades build is also good in the sense that it capitalizes on the barbs huge crit potential with uber weapons. Not my cup of tea but definitely worth looking at. You want to play with barb multi class? Two levels of fighter can give higher str and more feats. Two to three lvls of rogue can give umd, open lock, backstab bonus and evasion. Downsides is that lvl 14 barbarian offers indomitable will and crit rage 2. I have both multi-class barb and pure barb, I like playing the multi-class more but thats a personal choice. Good luck in finding a build that suits you.

How are you getting 30 something in UMD on a your barb? I only looked on a char generator, but the 6CHA start and max ranks from 2 rogue still seemed low. Is it a put on all the right gear, cast, then switch back to fighting garb?

Thanks.

[Tulsa_Doom]

Cha 6 starting so I assume you are looking at dwarf. My multiclass is halfling so his starting cha was 8. Rogue lvls esp rogue at first lvl plus adding point into umd per lvl helped. Ate +2 cha tome that I got during raid. Have titan gloves and head of good fortune and +6 cha item. Both really not terribly hard to get in veteran guild. Thats it. Should have 31 umd but forgot to put in point one lvl. And yeah I only buff before rages and after. AC on dps barbs go from mid 20s to mid 30s. DR and HPS mitigate damage. Hope this answers most of it.

Oh and umd is counting planar gird boost.

Str is 42 fully raged with 44 con vs wf pure barb at 46 str 46 con.

[redoubt]

Cha 6 starting so I assume you are looking at dwarf. My multiclass is halfling so his starting cha was 8. Rogue lvls esp rogue at first lvl plus adding point into umd per lvl helped. Ate +2 cha tome that I got during raid. Have titan gloves and head of good fortune and +6 cha item. Both really not terribly hard to get in veteran guild. Thats it. Should have 31 umd but forgot to put in point one lvl. And yeah I only buff before rages and after. AC on dps barbs go from mid 20s to mid 30s. DR and HPS mitigate damage. Hope this answers most of it.

Oh and umd is counting planar gird boost. I was wondering. Makes a little more sense that way. Pretty good for low end all the time. Get a GH if you need to do harder magic.

Str is 42 fully raged with 44 con vs wf pure barb at 46 str 46 con.

Thanks.