Support Bard Ideas for mod 5

[Blind_Skwerl]

I am looking for build ideas for a support bard with dv's (13 bard/1 cleric). I have 32 point builds available, but am wondering if drow would be the better way to go. I'd assume I want the charisma maxed out, a couple points into strength, and run up con with the rest. I don't plan on being the one doing the killing with this guy. Human or drow? Feats? Level progression?

[A_Sheep]

Human has 32-pts and the feat, drow has cha bonus. It's really your pick. The Sex Appeal (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=120011)build is probably the place to look. It's a Drow, but a 32-pt Human version could be much more sturdy (higher con and room for toughness).

The 200+ spell points you could eek out of DV just aren't that appealing to me...I guess you're not sacrificing that much.

[Prinstoni]

Intersting concept though with a 34 charisma (drow) you would have an extra 12 dv's, but they will be level 1 dv's. I'm not wholly convinced that would be the best use of a bard build level, but to each his own.

Anyway. Either is good. Humans have an extra feat (and a +1 to any stat form enhancement), but you don't sound too concerned with fighting.

You might build both and play them to level 2/3 (a few hours). See which one you like better, and go with it.

Personally, I can't stand the way humans run with a cobb up their butts. I hate looking at Warforge toasters (and make ******** sounds). I think haflings are silly looking and make ******** sounds. I think dwarfs move like sponge bob and are just plain ugly. Needless to say, I don't play them, because they are just too rough around the edges for me. Drow/elf are always my preference, but to each his own.

I would suggest drow, but I could be biased :O.

[EinarMal]

I agree, DV's, especially at level 1, are not all that exciting to me. When a 14 level sorc has 2k spell points what is another 200? I doubt 20% of clerics run around with DV's currently. They were great when spell points were more of an issue, level 10 cap, but really are not that appealing at this point at least in my opinion.

As the cap continues to increase they become less and less useful as spell point pools increase. I do not think a cleric splash is a great choice. Stay pure Bard and keep maxed out inspire courage, that is worth more than a bunch of weak DV's.

[Snike]

The best support bard is a 60+ haggle bard that can sell all the junk your are going to be pulling out of the new quests.

[Blind_Skwerl]

Last time I played a bard, they screwed up fascinate, so mine got parked with only 8 levels. My experience with them is quite limited.

[hazur]

Greetings,

Trust me, make this build, you will never go back. The reaction I get alone from parties from being a bard throwing DVs around is enough to have it. After MOD 5 it will be more like 300+ SP and more often than not 350+. I mostly see myself throwing 19s and 20s for my DVs. I have this build (The Sex Appeal 2.0 build) up to level 11 and it is working very well. In the long run currently (pre-mod 5) it gives the party well over 300+ more SP to work with, including the extra 100+ the cleric level gives you. After MOD 5 it will be over 400 SP. It also makes people more likely to believe that you can heal. :)

I am currently in development of a 32 point halfling build. I want to try halfling for the dragonmarks (a lot of extra healing power). The only problem with it is the limited number of feats. I figure I can drop mental toughness and improved mental toughness (since the dragonmarks will be worth a lot more SP than the two MT's) and one other feat...but not sure what that other feat could be. I think if I was going to rebuild a drow version, I would go with maxing charisma, and either going for max dex/ranged or some int/wis/con for skills, sp/saves and hp/saves. I seem to be doing a lot more casting than anything else with the current Sex Appeal 2.0 build, mostly because I apply to parties as the main healer 90% of the time.

I will try to post the halfling version I've been tinkering with.

Regards,
Booser

[Schmackdown]

Last time I played a bard, they screwed up fascinate, so mine got parked with only 8 levels.
I'd be interested in hearing what, exactly, was screwed up. I've never been playing DDO when it was; the closest it came was when they changed mob AI so they'd hear music from the shadows, rendering the sneak on my bards nigh-useless.

The reaction I get alone from parties from being a bard throwing DVs around is enough to have it.
This explains succinctly why you would build a bard with DVs: more oohs and aahs from the party about how eph'n great you are. The last thing I want in a group is some sloppy or incompetent caster whining for DVs, much less from me. Having them at the ready is just more negative reinforcement, and pushes the healing aspects of a bard build ever closer to the hated babysitter-healbot. Keep it.

[Blind_Skwerl]

Fascinate used to be instantanious... hit your hotkey and stuff was fascinated. Made sneaky bards uber scouts. The devs had put in a large delay and made the bard come out of sneak mode and nerfed invisability.

[Blind_Skwerl]

Kinda sold on trying the 13/1 DV bard variation. Just trying to figure out the feats now. 5 for drow or 6 for human, right? Extra turns (dv's) will be in there, but I am unsure after that. Skill Focus:UMD? Spell Focus: Enchantment? MT & IMT? What feats do you seasoned bards like?

[hazur]

Greetings,

I posted the halfling build, and my original Drow Sex Appeal 2.0 build is still up. Human is also a good option, and would enable you to take the following feats:

Extra Turning
MT/IMT (Or Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus)
Extend Spell
Skill Focus: UMD
Empower Healing Spell

Lean toward the spell focus for better CC power, go for the mental toughness for more SP for heals etc.

Regards,
Booser

[hazur]

This explains succinctly why you would build a bard with DVs: more oohs and aahs from the party about how eph'n great you are. The last thing I want in a group is some sloppy or incompetent caster whining for DVs, much less from me. Having them at the ready is just more negative reinforcement, and pushes the healing aspects of a bard build ever closer to the hated babysitter-healbot. Keep it.

Greetings,

Not so much "oohs and aahs" but more like "Wow, I'll have to add you to my friends list." The design for a Bard/Cleric IS a babysitting-healbot. If you don't like it, play a DPS bard or something. Some people enjoy healing and contributing all the resources they can to the party. Some people want their character to be uber on its own and solo everything. Its all personal taste. As for whining casters, I generally don't encounter them much in level 14 groups. I also generally never have people ASK me for DVs because A.) They generally don't know/forget I have them, and B.) 99% of the time I give them out automatically when the caster is getting low. I would say I have been lucky that more than half the groups I have been in have also had clerics or another bard. Then I can DV them for more healing power, and ignore the casters completely. It also helps a lot when you don't have a cleric and you need to have a ranger or a paladin pass out resists. They can generally not hit the whole party with resists, and if they can they run out of SP. Therefore you can toss them your DVs to either finish the resists or give them their SP back. It combos well with a ranger giving the whole party barkskins as well.

Regards,
Booser

[Blind_Skwerl]

Greetings,

I posted the halfling build, and my original Drow Sex Appeal 2.0 build is still up. Human is also a good option, and would enable you to take the following feats:

Extra Turning
MT/IMT (Or Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus)
Extend Spell
Skill Focus: UMD
Empower Healing Spell

Lean toward the spell focus for better CC power, go for the mental toughness for more SP for heals etc.

Regards,
Booser

I actually might drop the Empower Healing. Although I undoubtedly will be doing some healing, this is not the main focus for me. I want to be able to lend party assistance through song & spell buffs, crowd control, DV's, and then heals. Kinda like those BASF commercials. "We don't make the helmet; we make it stronger." I won't make the healer; I will make the healer better.
I won't make the melee; I'll make the melee deadlier. I won't make the rogue; I'll make the rogue nimbler. I won't make the nuke; I'll make the nuke.. err... nukier.:confused:

[hazur]

Greetings,

If you don't need the feats and you want to go total support/buffs, should probably just go drow and drop the empower. I personally do a lot more healing as a bard is all. Some feats are just personal preference. :)

Regards,
Booser

[markymarksta]

Perhaps if you want to support casters, spellsinger could be considered.

I have casters and clerics asking me when they find out I'm a spellsinger "Hey, can I get some of those notes flying out my butt"!

They may sound sarcastic but they do love the notes!

[Mousey]

The notes also makes it much easier to keep track of your party!

[Blind_Skwerl]

I am not familiar with "spellsinger" and I have a capped sorc. What does it do?

[mgoldb2]

I am not familiar with "spellsinger" and I have a capped sorc. What does it do?

It a enhancement with the following discription


Your studies into magic have granted you a +2 bonus to your Concentration and Use Magic Device skills, +100 Spell Points, and the ability to expend a use of Bardic Music to grant all nearby allies a +1 morale bonus to spell DC's and a 10% morale discount on spell costs.
Action Points: 4 (must have spent 16 action points)
Prerequisites: Bard Energy of Music II AND
Bard Concentration
IIEmpower Spell OR
Heighten Spell OR
Maximize Spell OR
(Enchantment) OR
(Enchantment) OR
Magical Training

The 10% discount and +1 dc to all spells is a nice support song for casters.

[hazur]

Greetings,

Spellsinger is pretty much a given for bards now who aren't warchanters. I've seen a couple virtuosos, but the abilities of it seem dwarfed by spellsinger and warchanter. For buffing, I personally would go with spellsinger unless you party with a lot of melee. It will give you +100 SP and a special buff song that gives 10% off SP costs and +1 spell DCs for the party. We get a lot of melee love and not much caster love so - this is nice.

Regards,
Booser

[Blind_Skwerl]

Ok, more questions....
What do virtuoso and warchanter do?

[Schmackdown]

Warchanter gives you an extra +1/+2 on your Courage buff, a DR/5 song and an extra Rage if you might have that abiility, but has some rather steep prereq's- Weapon Focus and Power Attack being the two big ones. I consider it to be monumentally overrated due to the feat requirements.

Virtuoso mainly grants you three extra songs per rest and the ability to use Enthrallment, which is an enhanced Fascinate that drops the target's will saves and attacks by 2, even after they're jarred out of the state. The main choice in prereq's is either SF: Perform or Negotiator, or the Extra Song IV enhancement. You can take Song of the Dead at level 6(7?) if you have Virtuoso, which might be attractive for some people, especially if you can swap out the relatively crummy feat prereq's later and take ES IV. As a straight bard, though, that's 21 songs at the current cap, far more than most bards would need. Enthrallment jibes well with most Enchantment-specc'ed bard builds, but I would go so far to say that those builds won't need the +2 to DCs anyway. For whatever reason Enthrallment's duration is around half that of plain Fascinate, though it's still fixed. And I think Enthralled targets don't qualify for Suggestion Song, though I believe this is a bug Turbine acknowledges.

In general I think most caster-leaning bards will obviously take Spellsinger, and those that are built specifically for Warchanter will likely do so. I don't know of many existing bards that could easily pick up Warchanter when it came out without a massive respec. Virtuoso will likely be a far distant third for almost all bards, though IMO it's one of the best choices for a very melee-focused build due to the extra 5-7 songs for Fascinate/Enthrallment use. I regularly use all 17 songs between shrines on my TWF bard.

[hazur]

Greetings,

As I have several high/max level bards, I tried all three of the bard enhancement lines. From what I've seen, Virtuoso comes up a distant third. Even heavily using fascinate, and keeping the casters buffed with spellsong trance, I rarely use my 18 songs up before hitting the shrine. With Virtuoso, I didn't even have the spellsong trance to use, so I would end up with many more songs left over than I needed. I loved the enthrallment affect, especially when throwing a disco ball or mass suggestion after a fascinate once the group started whacking stuff. However, it just never had the strength to beat +100 SP, +1 Spell DCs and 10% off mana costs. Nor could it compete with the +attack/damage and 5 DR song of the Warchanter. I agree Warchanter is very annoying to meet the pre-reqs for. I personally put it in a distant second behind spellsinger, even though it has a lot of hype right now.

Regards,
Booser

[Kizer]

I'm with Einar on this one, multi-classing bards at the current level cap is not worth losing the IC bonuses (especially if you do a pure warchanter). Another reason is when level 16 cap rolls around, anyone who multiclassed will be stuck without level 6 spells for 6+ months as slow as they are about rolling out new level caps. In the big picture you'll also lose out on IC +4 at 20 too.

Regardless to each his own, that's the beauty of this game, there really is no right or wrong build, it's about the person behind the keyboard controlling that build.


Fascinate used to be instantanious... hit your hotkey and stuff was fascinated. Made sneaky bards uber scouts. The devs had put in a large delay and made the bard come out of sneak mode and nerfed invisability.

Bards do not come out of sneak mode when playing songs, Fascinate, IC, etc. I don't ever recall fascinate being instantaneous and I played a bard since beta. I do however recall the changes to invis and the sound alerting monsters, but that just forced us to change strategies. I still find sneak/invis to be quite useful on Auska to this day.

[Xyfiel]

I have virtuoso, overall it isn't as useful as the other 2. Just fit with my plan for the char moreso then the others. If L18 ever comes, I will use the extra songs for mass suggestion spam. Basically, I have enough songs to buff everyone, then sing halfway thru the instance.

[Blind_Skwerl]

sorry about the confusion. like I said, I haven't done anything bard-wise for a long time and I have little experience with them. I coulda swore it was a delay of some sort they added. Oh and the invisability nerf.

[nbhs275]

fun idea. I would actually go drow, seeing you will want multiple high abilities. Max charisma and make sure wisdom hits 20 atleast. Dont forget about con and dex.

[Blind_Skwerl]

ended up getting away from the buff/dv build and am running a warforged warchanting pure bard. Lot's of fun!

[Lifespawn]

warchanters are great you just have to build them to be warchanters from the start for 99% of bards neway.
Spellsinger also gives you +2 to umd which seems to be underrated as for a healing bard why cleric and not sorc? 1 lvl of sorc and the spellsinger enhancment and your looking at over 1200 sp and use of stoneskin wands and all that good stuff.

[Kizer]

1200 SP is not a significant increase from my current mana pool and you can use stoneskin wands/scrolls without fail at 14 with 40+++ umd... ;)