Pk vs Firewall

[Khurse]

So finally hit level 8 with Cowl. Now I have the choice-
Which is (likely) a better spell for PUGs? (I really need to find myself a guild, but thats another thing)
I really want PK- but does it work on named ? Or just that really big Minotaur that I can scorching ray anyway?
I wanted Fireball at 6, took haste instead and have to admit it contributed far more to the group than a FB would have.

Just wondering if Firewall is going to be far better for any PUG's than the
oh-so-cool-my-first-ever-instakill spell.

Thanks (as always) for any advice or suggestions you can share!

[Staedtler]

Firewall will be your best choice at that level. PK is fine for higher levels once you have the DCs and SP pool to back it up. Firewall is also a great way to deal with a lot of red-named bosses which would be immune to PK.

[Blind_Skwerl]

I chose PK myself, but firewall would have more widespread use. Rule of thumb - If the mob's name is red, don't bother with an insta-kill, it's immune. Orange named mobs are vulnerable.

In contrast, most critters (including red nameds) are able to be hurt by a firewall. If your wall is producing some big damage numbers, it will be more efficient for killing than PK because you can hit multiple mobs with it.

But there is something so satisfying about seeing a hand come up out of the ground and grab that troll that was racing towards you to beat your a$$! :cool:

[MrWizard]

So finally hit level 8 with Cowl. Now I have the choice-
Which is (likely) a better spell for PUGs? (I really need to find myself a guild, but thats another thing)
I really want PK- but does it work on named ? Or just that really big Minotaur that I can scorching ray anyway?
I wanted Fireball at 6, took haste instead and have to admit it contributed far more to the group than a FB would have.

Just wondering if Firewall is going to be far better for any PUG's than the
oh-so-cool-my-first-ever-instakill spell.

Thanks (as always) for any advice or suggestions you can share!

I personally choose pk, then enervate, then firewall....or was it hold monster...yea. it was....firewall last...

Coupled with charm, pk works great to control and destroy mobs. Firewall only helps if you have poor melee and everyone sits at a door....usually this is not the case and the party is constantly moving...

But, do what you like and enjoy it....to heck with everyone else.

[Blind_Skwerl]

Firewall only helps if you have poor melee and everyone sits at a door....

Firewall is good for much more than that:

1. Mobs up on ledges or out of reach spots that are ranging the party. (i.e.- Demon Queen)
2. Taking out mobs through a door/gate safely. (i.e. - Maze of Madness)
3. Laying down massive DPS when dealing with multiple mobs at once (i.e. - most of Gianthold and Dessert)
4. Effecient DPS when soloing

Firewall was my second level 4 spell, just because I was specialized for insta-killing. When I got firewall and good potency/lore items I was amazed at what firewall could do. I actually contemplated rolling out a second sorcerer for pure DPS. Gianthold Tor has made me re-spec my insta-kill sorcerer to more of a balance between fire/ice dps and PK/FoD. If firewall isn't your first spell (I wouldn't blame ya) do yourself a favor, make it your second.

[MathGeek]

If you're a nuker, you want Wall of Fire. If you're a sniper, you want PK.

If you're somewhere in between, ask yourself whether you can handle the aggro from casting Wall of Fire. Are you good at jumping around in your Wall of Fire? Are you clobbered easily?

Do you have the enhancements to beef up the damage of your fire spells? Do you have spells that go well with Wall of Fire (like Displacement or Stoneskin)?

If you're not good at handling aggro, you'll only use Wall of Fire from behind doors and shield walls. A good PK on an enemy caster can save your party a ton of trouble.

If you go with Wall of Fire, remember that Maximize sometimes gets you less aggro: dead monsters don't chase you around the room. ;)

So, without knowing about your sorcerer and your playstyle, I can't make a recommendation. Perhaps Fear is your best bet for PUGs: it's great crowd control! :D

[Jarlaxel]

Firewall will be your best choice at that level. PK is fine for higher levels once you have the DCs and SP pool to back it up. Firewall is also a great way to deal with a lot of red-named bosses which would be immune to PK.

agreed. Take firewall for that lvl. At lvl 8 im sure your running necro, deleras, c06, and I found firewall to be much more helpful for those quests than pk.

[Blind_Skwerl]

actually at level 8 it'd prolly be more stormcleave, VoN series, etc. Also to be considered: vs. undead, PK is no good. Just way too hard to scare undead to death I guess. :rolleyes:

[Vinos]

It would really depend on how your sorc is specced. If you PuG alot then WoF might be more user friendly. PK takes a while to really mature.

[MrWizard]

Looking back....the first spell I took was charm monster...and traded out charm person for jump...

Charm monster works best with pugs, so you can survive and the cleric will spend no money...and it works on humans and non human monsters.
Coupled with command undead and heighten, you should be able to get through almost any dungeon rather easily and quickly..

If you invested in spell pen feats, you will of course have no problems with renders and the like as charm or pk will be fine.

[Blind_Skwerl]

I do enjoy charming for solo runs. It's like a pug raid.

[MathGeek]

Looking back....the first spell I took was charm monster...and traded out charm person for jump...

Charm monster works best with pugs, so you can survive and the cleric will spend no money...and it works on humans and non human monsters.
Coupled with command undead and heighten, you should be able to get through almost any dungeon rather easily and quickly..

If you invested in spell pen feats, you will of course have no problems with renders and the like as charm or pk will be fine.

If you took Suggestion as a 3rd level spell, Charm Monster might be less compelling. You don't have to worry as much about Suggestion because it has a fixed duration (6 seconds per caster level, I believe.) If you charm a monster, and you're in a room which is locked until all of the monsters are killed, your party will be pretty grouchy with you.

[CSFurious]

charming is an acquired talent gained through much play

the charm properly used is powerful

extended suggestion is a good spell & extended dominate person is the cat's pajamas

anyway, in the hands of a noob, charm can be troublesome

in the hands of a real caster, most powerful spell/s in the game

[Blind_Skwerl]

Early in the game, I used to only make melee types. I then got to tag along and watch a caster solo Stormcleave, back when it was considered a tough quest. I was there just to run a soulstone to the shrine if needed. It wasn't. Pink hats everywhere. It's what inspired me to forray into casters, and I haven't looked back.

[Xenaphon]

Early in the game, I used to only make melee types. I then got to tag along and watch a caster solo Stormcleave, back when it was considered a tough quest. I was there just to run a soulstone to the shrine if needed. It wasn't. Pink hats everywhere. It's what inspired me to forray into casters, and I haven't looked back.

When was SC ever a difficult quest? I remember people doing it at level 4.
As for PK vs Firewall, I would take firewall. PK has to go through 2 different saves and not the most efficient use of SP at low levels. FW on the othrhand has many uses, but it takes a while before you figure out how to make efficient use out of it (like blocking doors and then FW the mob.. which very few people do).

[Renegade66]

There's no question, take Wall of Fire first. Unless of course you aren't fire spec'd. If you're not fire spec'd then the next thing for you to do would be to reroll.

[Blind_Skwerl]

When was SC ever a difficult quest? I remember people doing it at level 4.

That's odd considering that you used to be required to be level 8 to open it.

[juniorpfactors]

WALLs Maximized Sup Pot V+ fire lore/enhacements maxed....all day...power lvl to 9 via delaras in 4 hours..then get pk:D

[Khurse]

Thanks all

Actually grabbed PK (just seemed to cool) but..really didn't do that much.
So I switched it to Charm Monster...which is *very* cool, but I don't have extend and it seems to break alot whil I'm resting.
(Really I have to assume I'd learn to lock my charmed friends *outside* of the shrine eventually...but )

Anyway think I've got almost enough cash to switch out Charm Monster for firewall, so I'll try it tomorrow.