Where have all the chain quests gone?

[PhoenixFire31]

So I was thinking today...what was the last chain quest that offered STATIC rewards? Let's see, we have WW, Catacombs, STK, Tangleroot, Delara's, Co6, Threnal, Threnal, Threnal,....um is that all?

Sure I am sick of Tangleroot and WW, but STK and Delara's are still very fun to run, and I do love static rewards (even if they are only semi-static now.:mad: )

Yes getting everyone on the right part of the chains CAN be a pain, but and however, they are fun to do. It adds a story element (for those of us who read the dialog) and then of course there is the static loot (semi:mad: )

What are your thoughts guys? Do you miss em like I do? Or do we throw the baby out with he bath water because getting people on the right part can be a small pain? (egads that is an old phrase:eek: )

[Hendrik]

I like the chain quests too Phoenix. Like the stories behind them, yes I DO read the dialogue, and I like the progression through them. Enjoy how they get harder as you progress, ending in a big boss style fight.

Semi-static rewards don't bother me, loot is the last thing on my list as to why I play...

I recently created a Bard, thank you DEV's for the Bard love BTW!, and re-experienced WW, STK, and Deleras. ****! Forgot how much fun they are and really enjoy the small changes they have made over the course of time.

Even after 1.5 years playing, I STILL miss an advancement (quest) from time to time. But oh well...

:rolleyes:

So yes, I do enjoy them and miss seeing more of them. In all honesty, like to see more...

:)

[Shadow_Flayer]

Yes, I would like to see more chain quests. It seems like only the original content has any chaining.

One thing that chain questing does is give a persistence to a group. If you join a pug for Greymoon, you know there are three quests and you can expect to run together (barring internal conflicts) for at least that long.

I don't think all quests should be chained, but I don't think that all new content should not be chained either. I understand the "I'm on part 3 and I can never find a group that starts there" issue. There needs to be a balance.

The story, for the most part, gets lost when there is no consistency in the order in which the quests need to be completed. I personally think this is one of the issue that makes the old Necropolis quests uninteresting -- there is no sense of what the story is.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I, too, miss the chain quests. I miss extended storylines and having zero luck for named items in chests, I miss named loot in end rewards.

My only request is that future chains be limited to 4 quests and should not reuse the same dungeon more than once. No more Outer Splinterskull x7 and Inner Splinterskull x3. But, Iron Mines, Greymoon, Co6: Temple Outpost x2 are all okay. And go easy on the multi-chains 3 chains of 3x in Threnal.

[Shadow_Flayer]

My only request is that future chains be limited to 4 quests and should not reuse the same dungeon more than once. No more Outer Splinterskull x7 and Inner Splinterskull x3. But, Iron Mines, Greymoon, Co6: Temple Outpost x2 are all okay. And go easy on the multi-chains 3 chains of 3x in Threnal.

I agree with this. I'd rather run STK or Co6 than Tangleroot anyday.

[llevenbaxx]

Agree.

Was just commenting on this very subject earlier today. Every chain they have put in since launch have ended in raids. We need some of the "old school":) type chains with nice static loot for post level 9 that are not raids.

Best storyline: Catacombs... that bastard:)

[oronisi]

LotD...sadly, should be considered 3 chains after mod 5. No static rewards outside of the raid though.

[Mad_Bombardier]

LotD...sadly, should be considered 3 chains after mod 5. No static rewards outside of the raid though.Yeah, we have moved to non-linear chains. LotD quests can be done in any order, then the Crypt quest. Restless Isles can be done in either order after Hazadill (only 2 quests). DQ flagging can be done in any order, then the preraid & raid. GH can be done in any order. The story arcs have been maintained, but what we have lost is the named items in end rewards.

On another similar note, what's with linked storyline quests able to be done out of order? You can do Dreams of Insanity without first having completed Xorian Cipher. You can do Made to Order before Haywire's Foundry. You can do Enemy Within before Mirra's. You can do FBtG before Graverobber (Deathshade = Deathshadow). The only one that appears to be set up as unlockable is Keeper's Sanctuary after Haunted Library where you can't even talk to Menos until you complete the first quest.

[Dariuss]

I would love for more quests to be linked up in some way.

Partly for the story, but mostly because i think alot of peopel get sucked into the ww/stk/deleras/stormcleave/threnal/gh cycle and miss out on half the game.

One of the ideas that came out of my'every quest needs a muckbane' thread (which i think has fallen off the main page now) was having quest 'sets'. Like, taking the three troglodyte quests in the marketplace, and linking them up via one NPC (kind of like the goodblade quests now that I think of it).

They could build a mini-story around those quests, and oyu get a wee reward for each, then some kind of slightly better reward for doing all of them.

[muffinlad]

Going back and linking all the Trog quests (Clearing the Air, etc) would be good, as would linking the pirate quests (irestone inlet, etc), so a more limited (6-8) set of useful static/semi-static end rewards for levels 4-7 would be appericated.

[Tanka]

LotD...sadly, should be considered 3 chains after mod 5. No static rewards outside of the raid though.
Technically, the Silver Flame Trinket (or Emerald Claw Trinket, which is IMO inferior) is a static reward.

It isn't a static reward list, but it's a static reward. You just have to remember to upgrade it yourself at the end of the main crypt (Bloody Crypt, Shadow Crypt, and whatever the next two crypts are).

[Cyr]

I don't know, but chain quests to me always represented a bad side of the game. Grinding delera's, tangleroot, or co6 takes a signifigant time investment. I much prefer the take one at a time in any order for completion methodolgy of the necropolis (NOT THE QUESTS THEMSELVES THOUGH), DQ pre-reqs, or reaver pre-reqs. Static loot tables should not have the uber items on them for high end content and since I would be the last one to ask for more low level content.../meh.

[ArkoHighStar]

Linked quest chains can be very problematic, in that they require everyone to be on the same part to get the end reward. Step in on part 2 and no end reward for you even if you go back and do part 1 after.
Advancing these quests was always a pain because one person would forget to speak to Dryden twice or something else.
Very often for more casual groups and PUGS, the groups would never get to the end as people would drop out and very few people would want to start in the middle so, you would end up starting a new group from the beginning where you would run into the same issues as above.

Static quest rewards have always been a contentious issue, many people ran the quest chains just for the specific loot, ie spec ops, retribution, golden cartouche all the +3 stat items from TR. When the level cap was 10 and raid loot was scarce(only 1 raid till November). Everyone basically had the same gear, Turbine decided to get rid of static end rewards on all new quests , but they could not remove them completely from existing quests. Their soloution semi static rewards. Is it perfect no , just ask the person who had to run Delera's 10 times to get a golden cartouche. But the old way was worse where everyone had every item they wanted.

Edit: The new metod is much better in that any quest can be done in any order, and most major quests have a static item dropping from a specific chest randomly. Ie Kardin's eye always drops from Kardins chest in POP, get that chest and you have a shot at it. This does 2 things, it makes people want to grind, and it makes those items more valuable.

[Dariuss]

Going back and linking all the Trog quests (Clearing the Air, etc) would be good, as would linking the pirate quests (irestone inlet, etc), so a more limited (6-8) set of useful static/semi-static end rewards for levels 4-7 would be appericated.

Well yeah, and you could go even further... link up all the house K quests (aside from the VONs) for a nice reward, link up all the House P quests...

Does anyone even DO house P quests? I bet they would if there was Threnal-calibre reward waiting for them at the end :)

[Tanka]

But the old way was worse where everyone had every item they wanted.
A lot of people still have the same items as everyone else. They just have to run the quest a lot more.

8+ completions of TR, and I never got the Dex Bracers. I have 3 Visors and had the gloves, a few items that weren't named, and the cloak as well before finally giving in and calling it quits on that quest until I need it for favor (and I swear to all that is holy, if the Dex bracers drop then, I will scream).

Many people are on 10 repititions of Threnal just to get the goggles or Retribution. Yes, they're powerful items, but that doesn't mean it should be 10 times as hard to get it.

As it stands, there is no easy way to please both groups of people (static loot lovers, semi-static loot lovers), because either way will result in the same -- people with the same items. It's just that one way will result in 10 repititions instead of, say, 4.

[Dariuss]

Let's not derail this thread with yet another debate about static loot :D

[Ringlord]

The change to the static loot tables would be fine if the items substituted for the original ones were actually of equal use and value. That is beef everyone has with the semi-static loot tables, the item that pops up in place of say the +3 Con belt for Tangleroot is not equivalent or many times even close to the same power level as the original item. If you could get a +3 con item other than a belt or a +2 con item with something else on it as well then people would not be so upset.

Oh and I would love to see more chain quests. I never cared if I missed out on end rewards if the group did not feel like starting over because I missed an earlier part. I knew we would be doing it again.

[PhoenixFire31]

Let's not derail this thread with yet another debate about static loot :D

Please, thank you. :D

Regardless of the loot factor, IMO the quest chains are fun. As stated before it will "guarantee" a group for 4-10 quests (depending on the chain) and gives you a group to say, "Hey lets go do this now that we finished those.":)

[ArkoHighStar]

A lot of people still have the same items as everyone else. They just have to run the quest a lot more.

8+ completions of TR, and I never got the Dex Bracers. I have 3 Visors and had the gloves, a few items that weren't named, and the cloak as well before finally giving in and calling it quits on that quest until I need it for favor (and I swear to all that is holy, if the Dex bracers drop then, I will scream).

Many people are on 10 repititions of Threnal just to get the goggles or Retribution. Yes, they're powerful items, but that doesn't mean it should be 10 times as hard to get it.

As it stands, there is no easy way to please both groups of people (static loot lovers, semi-static loot lovers), because either way will result in the same -- people with the same items. It's just that one way will result in 10 repititions instead of, say, 4.

It was worse because character builds became gear dependant, and then everyone screamed when they nerfed some gear. Most first generation characters had all the same gear and the characters were all the same. Every fighter had the following, spec ops, retribution. Casters had the wizardry gem etc. And everyone had the +3 stat items from TR. Everyone who had UMD had a golden cartouche. Now the items are there but they drop randomly, so someone really has to want it to go through the quest chain over and over to get it. Most of the items have been replaced with better items available to higher levels etc. Only the golden cartouche has no real equal outside a raid item.

The quest chains were great for those who did not care what quest they were doing as they would simply hop into a group and get some XP. But if you were trying to get the end reward it was hit or miss

[muffinlad]

It was worse because character builds became gear dependant, and then everyone screamed when they nerfed some gear. Most first generation characters had all the same gear and the characters were all the same. Every fighter had the following, spec ops, retribution. Casters had the wizardry gem etc. And everyone had the +3 stat items from TR. Everyone who had UMD had a golden cartouche. Now the items are there but they drop randomly, so someone really has to want it to go through the quest chain over and over to get it. Most of the items have been replaced with better items available to higher levels etc. Only the golden cartouche has no real equal outside a raid item.

The quest chains were great for those who did not care what quest they were doing as they would simply hop into a group and get some XP. But if you were trying to get the end reward it was hit or miss

NONE of the things you list as problems has significantly changed, and nor do I agree that what you have described is necessarily a bad thing, just something you may not care for, and I like.

ONLY the need to run the quest many times to get what they want has changed. This is a poor result. Further, the promise that other, equal value items would be added in the place of the fixed rewards is in my opinion, and the opinion of many others, has not been met.

Linking other quests, creativly, and with level siginifcant awards, makes people run them. Adding different items to the mix reduces the number of "must have builds", and gives options for different types of play. This is a good thing in my view, and the primary reason static awards should be increased, not diminished.

Regards,

muffinposter

[ArkoHighStar]

NONE of the things you list as problems has significantly changed, and nor do I agree that what you have described is necessarily a bad thing, just something you may not care for, and I like.

ONLY the need to run the quest many times to get what they want has changed. This is a poor result. Further, the promise that other, equal value items would be added in the place of the fixed rewards is in my opinion, and the opinion of many others, has not been met.

Linking other quests, creativly, and with level siginifcant awards, makes people run them. Adding different items to the mix reduces the number of "must have builds", and gives options for different types of play. This is a good thing in my view, and the primary reason static awards should be increased, not diminished.

Regards,

muffinposter


I have no problem with linked quests, but chains are problematic, as you are forced to run them in order. The desert quests, the gianthold, the twilight forge and the LOTD all have similiar mechanics which in my opinion are far superior to the old quest chains, as all quests can be run in any order.

[Dariuss]

I just want peopel to do more of the quests... so if chains, or links, or whatever will help that happen, then I am all for either one.

[ArkoHighStar]

I just want peopel to do more of the quests... so if chains, or links, or whatever will help that happen, then I am all for either one.

The reason many people do only certain quests is that certain quests give out more xp than others, nad since 14 came out and the lootapolooza that is the gianthold became available, many have powerleveled their characters to lvl14 so they can loot run on +1 loot weekends with more chars(guilty as charged), so only the high xp quests get done, nobody cares about the quest chains as the loot is only good for a few levels and they take too long, and many do not give out much xp for time spent. This is why you see lvl 3-5 in Stormcleave on normal as the xp beats anything in the level range for the time spent doing the quest.

[Dariuss]

The reason many people do only certain quests is that certain quests give out more xp than others, nad since 14 came out and the lootapolooza that is the gianthold became available, many have powerleveled their characters to lvl14 so they can loot run on +1 loot weekends with more chars(guilty as charged), so only the high xp quests get done, nobody cares about the quest chains as the loot is only good for a few levels and they take too long, and many do not give out much xp for time spent. This is why you see lvl 3-5 in Stormcleave on normal as the xp beats anything in the level range for the time spent doing the quest.

Yes, XP is an issue.

But i think the lure of loot is just as high.

otherwise, why would be peopel be complaining they HAVE to run Threnal 10 times to get their Optics?

[ArkoHighStar]

Yes, XP is an issue.

But i think the lure of loot is just as high.

otherwise, why would be peopel be complaining they HAVE to run Threnal 10 times to get their Optics?

You aren't seeing as many peopel complain as you used to before gianthold came out as people spend so little time at level 10, because they are doing pop at 8-10 now. I created a fighter on Mabar prior to the merge to get drow favor so I could max out my character slots, I got to likeing him so I decided I would keep playing him, but try to do all the quests at the approriate levl, the thing is hardly anyone is running C06 or threnal or most ofthe other quest chains, because with the exception of the golden cartouche you can get better weapons for your lvl 8 to 10 from the bad loot from gianthold. My lvl 9 fighter has +4 mithral full plate, +4 stat items for everything that matters, holy greataxe of pure good, transmusting greataxe, flaming burst greataxe, Icy burst greataxe, and at lvl 10 he has a vorpal waiting for him, so why would I bother doingthe chains for +3 stat items that just put me to an odd number and have benefit for one level or maybe 2

[VirieSquichie]

Bite-sized. That's part of the benefit of the chains...you can do just a few parts and take a break, or split it across a couple days. Greymoon and Co6 are perfect examples of this...I've seen more groups do one OR the other than I've seen slog through the whole chain.

I find the dungeon design, quest story, atmosphere, everything in the chains to be better than the single-instance dungeons generally are. My favorite quests in the game have always included Splinterskull, Delera's and yes even Waterworks. (doesn't mean I'm not sick of them, but I can still appreciate them even if I don't want to spend much time in them anymore)

It's not just the multipart chains that made them great though. Stormcleave, even with all its bugs, was a grand adventure. Caverns of Korromar. Gwylan's. Redwillow's. These all seemed to have more depth than much of what has come since.

Also - Gianthold, many of the missions included in that update are in my opinion right up there with the original content's greats. They aren't chains, but they've got all the other great traits.

I'd like to see several more quest chains added also, as long as they're made with an eye to quality and depth. The less interesting content that's been added (read: both Necropolis updates) feels more like playing Doom than a role-playing game. I think that's my biggest problem with it.

[Kalanth]

I love the chain quests. I will be honest, I have no idea why we are saving Arlos, storming the Splinterskull outpost, fighting Delera, or stomping through the caves of Threnal. But that does not change my love for them. One day I will read the story behind them, just like I keep meaning to do with VoN and Tempest Spine, but that time is in the far off future I am sure. :)

[Dariuss]

I love the chain quests. I will be honest, I have no idea why we are saving Arlos, storming the Splinterskull outpost, fighting Delera, or stomping through the caves of Threnal. But that does not change my love for them. One day I will read the story behind them, just like I keep meaning to do with VoN and Tempest Spine, but that time is in the far off future I am sure. :)

Well you are saving because..

...if you don't, the DM voice will say "You must FREE Arlos.." over and over until your brain explodes :)

[tihocan]

My main gripe against quest chains is actually that I need to do them on all difficulty levels (at least until I get enough chars), while most other quests I can run once on elite only.
It makes favor grinding tedious.