Raidless Raidloot.

[Dingo123]

Some of us hate raiding. In fact, some of us REALLY hate raiding. Consequently, we try to avoid it. However, those of us that do get shafted in the loot department. I would like to see this change.

My proposal is that there be created an exceptionally long series of quests that allows you to choose from a list of raid quality gear. For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16.

This balances out the raiders investment of difficulty/manpower with the small groups investment of time.

[Big_Russ]

nm

[Cowdenicus]

No, if you want the raid quality loot, you have to raid.

[shermahawk]

Please stop posting these 'give me free easy stuff threads'. It is obvious this game is way to much for you. This game is fine the way it is. Pffft, 'raidless loot', please.

[Hendrik]

LOL!

They keep getting better and better...

Whats next? Some of 'us' don't like to Quest so we should be given free XP?!?

Oh, wait, tried that one already and didn't work....

Keep up the comedic posts.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Raid loot is not the be-all, end-all in this game, as I understand it is in some others. Sure, a lot of it is really good, but is it absolutely necessary? Nope.

[Tanka]

Another fine idea from the brain of Dingo123.

What will he come up with next?

[Bizbag]

If you want raid loot, you have to raid. Simple as that.

I suppose you want Planar Girds to be purchasable from a vendor, too?

By the way, we already have several quest chains that are plenty long. Greymoon/Co6 is 10 quests, Threnal is 9 quests, the Catacombs are 8(?) quests, Tangleroot is many quests... If you want long quest chains, go do those.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Here, you want Raidless Raidloot? Go play LotR:O. They have ways there.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

um, uh... how about no? its unfair to the people who already raided like 100+ times and only got like 2-3 pieces of loot.

[Clay]

"Mediocre minds often think they have great ideas... and spend too much time shouting them down from the forums." ~ clay

Honestly... if DDO is really so bad: not enough like wow... no cheat-codes like a console game... not enough like every other mmorpg.... not enough free XP (It is possible to reach lvl 14 in 1 week... that is not fast enough?)... no grinding...

All reasons why MOST of us like THIS game over all the other ones... Why do you still play it?

[BLAKROC]

Some of us hate raiding. In fact, some of us REALLY hate raiding. Consequently, we try to avoid it. However, those of us that do get shafted in the loot department. I would like to see this change.

My proposal is that there be created an exceptionally long series of quests that allows you to choose from a list of raid quality gear. For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16.

This balances out the raiders investment of difficulty/manpower with the small groups investment of time.


they have done this it's called vons 1-6(and others)and I would imagine it takes less time than a 12-14 quest series? did you fall on your head?

[Oran_Lathor]

I was dead set against your other ideas Dingo, much like the others here. That said, I think some of us have taken to bashing your ideas out of hand, haha. Not that I necessarily think this one is any better than your others... but still, if anyone had posted this I think more answers would look something like this, so here goes:

What is there to not like about raiding in this game? As it stands, every raid in the game can be finished quite easily with 6 or less people. Indeed, most if not all are actually easier with 6 or fewer, as coordination is less of a problem. You want raid loot without 'raiding' ? Do them in 6 person groups and don't call it a raid. The only functional difference is that they *allow* you to bring more people, otherwise, they are just quests.

My 2 cents,
hope they help this time

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

Raids in DDO are not like hte raids in WoW or the Task force/Strike forces of CoX. many of them can be completed in like 1.5 hours, or less depending on the raid/group. hell, the DQ raid can be beat in like 10-20 minutes once you get the pre-raid out of the way.

[Tanka]

Raids in DDO are not like hte raids in WoW or the Task force/Strike forces of CoX. many of them can be completed in like 1.5 hours, or less depending on the raid/group. hell, the DQ raid can be beat in like 10-20 minutes once you get the pre-raid out of the way.
DQ is the easiest to run. I duo it all the time. Once I get the necklace from Reaver, I can solo it (not that I will, I don't need anything from there anymore).

Reaver comes in second. You can trio it with ease.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

from my experience, (havent ran the reaver raid yet.) its DQ, Dragon, and titan... the titans by far the most annoying raid in the game, I only ran it once, didnt like it that much.some day i might try it again.

Tempest spines a fun raid to do as well, unless you got a group that doesnt know what they are doing.

[BUpcott]

Some of us hate raiding. In fact, some of us REALLY hate raiding. Consequently, we try to avoid it. However, those of us that do get shafted in the loot department. I would like to see this change.

My proposal is that there be created an exceptionally long series of quests that allows you to choose from a list of raid quality gear. For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16.

This balances out the raiders investment of difficulty/manpower with the small groups investment of time.

Run a raid 20 times and theres your raid loot. The raids are not that difficult. Jeck if you get yourself in a good guild you will see failure rarely. And I really don't get how you became the voice of the people.

Are you going for strength in numbers. mean the more ideas you come up with the higher your chance one might catch on? If that is the case, then for you next idea make it, the idea that you should avoid posting ideas. I am sure it will be welcomed by many.

[Tanka]

from my experience, (havent ran the reaver raid yet.) its DQ, Dragon, and titan... the titans by far the most annoying raid in the game, I only ran it once, didnt like it that much.some day i might try it again.

Tempest spines a fun raid to do as well, unless you got a group that doesnt know what they are doing.
Having run all four (and lead all four), I'd say:

DQ, Reaver, Dragon, Titan.

Titan is only annoying when you don't have anyone who knows both sides and don't have a group that is self-sufficient for healing in the Titan fight itself. Keeping 10-12 up on their feet when trying to drop the Titan's shields can get taxing if there are one or two players who don't even bother with any self healing whatsoever.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

main reason i descided to not run the titan again.... first char i ever got keyed was my cleric XD first time run through there with a cleric isnt quiet the wisest idea me thinks.

[Tanka]

main reason i descided to not run the titan again.... first char i ever got keyed was my cleric XD first time run through there with a cleric isnt quiet the wisest idea me thinks.
If you get a group who knows all the ins-and-outs, it's a cakewalk.

But like I said above, everybody's gotta be self-sufficient so the Cleric doesn't end up burning through a ton of scrolls and wands.

[BUpcott]

main reason i descided to not run the titan again.... first char i ever got keyed was my cleric XD first time run through there with a cleric isnt quiet the wisest idea me thinks.

Its just one of those quest that if you don't know it, it can be hectic. I remember when VON3 first came out. It was new and took a bit of time. Now blast through it even on a level 6-7 group.

[The_Cataclysm]

main reason i descided to not run the titan again.... first char i ever got keyed was my cleric XD first time run through there with a cleric isnt quiet the wisest idea me thinks.

Titan isn't that bad. I have been through there where my cleric was the only one and I suck as a cleric.

Maybe you should try running it more. It is a good quest.

[Tanka]

Titan isn't that bad. I have been through there where my cleric was the only one and I suck as a cleric.

Maybe you should try running it more. It is a good quest.
Some of the best non-raid loot too.

Helm of Freewill, Adoryn's Malice both drop from it.

And the raid loot is awesome too -- Gyroscopic Boots, Seven-Fingered Gloves, Skull Fetish Mask, Belt of Brute Strength, Chattering Ring... That's a big smattering of "win" right there.

[McSurlykins]

/signed...and while were at it id like to have a weekend where u can create a toon and ur automatically 14 with a plus 3 tome on every stat and a wounding of puncturing rapier for each hand :D

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

heh, hard for me to get on when the guild is on for raids, they are in the east coast, im pacific coast.... sometimes the difference makes it too hard for me to raid with them cause most the time is only like an hour or so before i have to be at work.

[The_Cataclysm]

Some of the best non-raid loot too.

Helm of Freewill, Adoryn's Malice both drop from it.

And the raid loot is awesome too -- Gyroscopic Boots, Seven-Fingered Gloves, Skull Fetish Mask, Belt of Brute Strength, Chattering Ring... That's a big smattering of "win" right there.


What? How can you not mention the axe of embers? It is so uber.


But yeah, lots of great loot in there. It is why my guild runs 2 Titans every 3 day period.

[Tanka]

What? How can you not mention the axe of embers? It is so uber.


But yeah, lots of great loot in there. It is why my guild runs 2 Titans every 3 day period.
Because I prefer my Holy Cold Iron Returning Throwing Axe of Righteousness. :p

[Hokiewa]

Some of us hate raiding. In fact, some of us REALLY hate raiding. Consequently, we try to avoid it. However, those of us that do get shafted in the loot department. I would like to see this change.

My proposal is that there be created an exceptionally long series of quests that allows you to choose from a list of raid quality gear. For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16.

This balances out the raiders investment of difficulty/manpower with the small groups investment of time.

I have to ask.....What is truely wrong with you? I'm serious. I hate to see people in pain, and it's obvious that something is seriously wrong with you.

or.......based on every post of yours......

you simply want an "EASY" button.....

PM your toon names and server played on, I wanna see why it's so difficult for you

[Hendrik]

main reason i descided to not run the titan again.... first char i ever got keyed was my cleric XD first time run through there with a cleric isnt quiet the wisest idea me thinks.

Hehe.

I'm constantly the only CLR in our Titan runs - full group Titan runs, and enjoy it. I think the Titan is a great example of resource management and how people can work together. Last run, yesterday, I used maybe half a Wand of CSW and like 5 Heal scrolls and 2 Raise Deads and finished with about 1/3rd of my 1300+ mana. I love Titan Raid because of the teamwork and coordination needed by the party.

Seems to be a pattern with some posts of late - wanting everything for no effort or investment, this cannot be allowed to progress past posting here. DnD, by the very essence and by extension DDO, is about a group dynamic and using your group strength to overcome the obstacles set before you/us.

It is NOT about getting the best items in game without doing the required Quests and defeating grand enemies.

It is NOT about getting Xp in a bottle instead of Questing, training, and advancing your characters as designed some two decades ago.

It is NOT about farming Xp in open landscapes and regenning HP/SP while sitting on your rear waiting for the next MOB to spawn.

It is NOT about free spells to cast to supplement bad play.

It IS about Adventure, advancement, teamwork, and party members working together to reach a goal.

[BUpcott]

Seems to be a pattern with some posts of late - wanting everything for no effort or investment, this cannot be allowed to progress past posting here. DnD, by the very essence and by extension DDO, is about a group dynamic and using your group strength to overcome the obstacles set before you/us.

It is NOT about getting the best items in game without doing the required Quests and defeating grand enemies.

It is NOT about getting Xp in a bottle instead of Questing, training, and advancing your characters as designed some two decades ago.

It is NOT about farming Xp in open landscapes and regenning HP/SP while sitting on your rear waiting for the next MOB to spawn.

It is NOT about free spells to cast to supplement bad play.

It IS about Adventure, advancement, teamwork, and party members working together to reach a goal.

Well said.

[Shmuel]

I have to agree with most posters that it is a ridiculous idea to give out raid loot for non raiding. However, I do think that some long quest chains with high end static end loot, ie. deleras/tangleroot/threnal would be nice to have at high level . At this point there is really nothing any of my lvl 14 charactes could gain form threnal end rewards, unless my ranger wants some really nice arrows to use for about 4 minutes. Why can't we have some storyline chains like this for lvl 14ish characters that are not raids and give nice end loot most of us would find useful?

Also- Bring back static loot! Delera's isnt that fun after the 3rd time when I am trying to get that cartouche, for example, and making me run it once vs 30 times is going in no way to change the fact that I will eventually have it on my character. Same could be said of lots of stuff like that.

[Hendrik]

Well said.

Thank you BUpcott.

/respect

[AmsterdamHeavy]

Some of us hate raiding. In fact, some of us REALLY hate raiding. Consequently, we try to avoid it. However, those of us that do get shafted in the loot department. I would like to see this change.

My proposal is that there be created an exceptionally long series of quests that allows you to choose from a list of raid quality gear. For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16.

This balances out the raiders investment of difficulty/manpower with the small groups investment of time.

Why does it seem that every suggestion you make is to "dumb down" the game or make it easier for the lowest common denominator?

F the LCD, in this game and in real life. I prefer a challenge. Thank you.


edit: punctuation

[Lorien_the_First_One]

12-16 quest chains would be the bain of the game. You notice quest chains dispeared from the last few mods? That's because it was hard enough to complete the 7 part ones without 1 or 2 people dropping and who wanted to come in the middle and miss the end loot? The large number of players think chains are bad for the gaim, 12-16 chains would really really suck.

And there is the by the way quite a bit of good named loot out there that isn't in a raid.

[Dingo123]

If you want raid loot, you have to raid. Simple as that.

I suppose you want Planar Girds to be purchasable from a vendor, too?

By the way, we already have several quest chains that are plenty long. Greymoon/Co6 is 10 quests, Threnal is 9 quests, the Catacombs are 8(?) quests, Tangleroot is many quests... If you want long quest chains, go do those.

Where is that written? Why do we have to adhere to that single convention? Why not expand our options?

[BUpcott]

Where is that written? Why do we have to adhere to that single convention? Why not expand our options?

Well seeing as it is called "Raid loot", I think its safe to say you should have to do a "raid quest" to get that loot.

What you want is a named item from a quest series. Oh guess what we already have those. Heck we even have named loot from individual quests. Problem solved.

[Rragnaar]

Where is that written? Why do we have to adhere to that single convention? Why not expand our options?

Making raid loot available to everyone without raiding is not expanding our options, it's deleting our options.

As for a 12-14 quest series, it would never be completed. People would get bored around quest 8 and say to heck with it. Also, if they did this, the exp would be incredibly low on each quest so people didn't use it as a leveling device.

Making the game simpler only makes the game more pathetic and in the end kills the game. If you want simple, play WoW. I hear in that game you can be capped in 3 days.

[PaintHorseCowboy]

*sigh*

/not signed


........again.

[JelloMold]

Ok, I hate raiding too, but I certainly don't expect to receive raid quality anything without going through the process. Raids are so involved because it (sort of) makes it worth running everything to get something nice. Nothing good comes for free.

In case you haven't noticed, your ideas are not terribly well received. I'm not saying that you are not welcome to post, but please stop with the "lets turn a game you all like into a game that you don't like" suggestions. This game does not have any of the things you suggest and I, for one, would quit in a heartbeat if any of these suggestions came to be. I've tried to be civil (not always easy for a sarcastic bastich like me), but please stop...or don't take offense when people constantly shoot you down.

Andy Warhol called, your 15 minutes of fame have expired.

[Sojourner]

Where is that written? Why do we have to adhere to that single convention? Why not expand our options?

If you are upset that someone has stuff you don't, you have three options:

Get over it
Whine, complain and beg about equality. Hoping that either you'll be given the same stuff as the other person (with no extra work on your part) or the other person's stuff will be taken away. Either way, you are now "equal"
Decide you want that stuff too, and decide that you are willing to work until you achieve it.


Requesting that all raid loot either be turned into regular loot, or becomes available in vendor shops would fall under option number.... ?? Anyone? Anyone?


.

[Ghoste]

Where is that written? Why do we have to adhere to that single convention? Why not expand our options?
Be my guest, dont adhere to that. Tell us if you have any success getting raid loot like that.

Or, you could try doing the raids. They're a lot of fun. That's what making a game a challenge is all about: making it more fun.

If Turbine implemented half your ideas they would lose a huge amount of people due to boredom. Too easy=boring.

Perhaps that explains the motivation behind your ideas though; do you find water works to be too much of a challenge for your level 2 characters? Just make sure to put "need a guide" in the lfm, and then make sure to listen very carefully to that guide. You'll start to have more fun, I know you will.

[Kire]

Lol i was gonna read all three pages before replying but then again i know exactly what its gonna say. Bunch of flaming pretty much. SO heres my flaming!

Lol raid loot is suppiosed to be HARD to get. No one seems to understand that. Not everyone in the game is supposed to have raid loot. Thats why there is the new raid system.

Also err long quest chains with good end rewards... those have been around a looooong time lol. Some stuff from those are better then raid loot. I still tote Trapblast goggles on most of my toons =P.

~Kire

[PaintHorseCowboy]

[/LIST]

Requesting that all raid loot either be turned into regular loot, or becomes available in vendor shops would fall under option number.... ?? Anyone? Anyone?




I believe that's option #4.

4. Dumbest Ideas of All Time.

[Cowdenicus]

I believe that's option #4.

4. Dumbest Ideas of All Time.

QFT

[Belfalcon]

Dingo123 go a way move on to a other game...
all of your idears are no good.. go play WoW all you are doing here is trolling

[Gornin]

Andy Warhol called, your 15 minutes of fame have expired.

Yea, but like a train wreck, we just can't seem to stop looking, so it is lasting for more than 15 minutes. We should stop responding to this individual. This person will never take the community vote of "NO" as a valid answer. This person will then respond insultingly as to our mass intelligence as too low, thus proving their superiority, and proclaim themselves a martyr because they are so misunderstood by the hoi polloi. Give me a physical break. Just ignore them. Move along. Nothing new to see here.

[DagazUlf]

If that is the case, then for you next idea make it, the idea that you should avoid posting ideas. I am sure it will be welcomed by many.

Aye. ;)

[Arlith]

Some of us hate raiding. In fact, some of us REALLY hate raiding. Consequently, we try to avoid it. However, those of us that do get shafted in the loot department. I would like to see this change.

My proposal is that there be created an exceptionally long series of quests that allows you to choose from a list of raid quality gear. For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16.

This balances out the raiders investment of difficulty/manpower with the small groups investment of time.

I knew who posted this just by reading the title. Every time I read one of his posts, I am brought back to Clerks II:

I'm disgusted and repulsed and... I can't look away.

[teddok]

LEAVE US. Go back to wow.
We dont want any more fof your crazy idea's.
It starting to hurt laughing at you all the time.

[teddok]

I knew who posted this just by reading the title. Every time I read one of his posts, I am brought back to Clerks II:

I'm disgusted and repulsed and... I can't look away.

Ohh that is so true.

[Dingo123]

Since when is raiding DIFFICULT?

No... seriously... Raiding, more than anything else is time consuming, and forces you to group with people.

So you want extra special bright shinies because... you're social?

That's what it boils down to.

I have lots of friends, I have a great big guild, I'ma gunna get me some neato new gearz!

Whereas someone who doesn't want to be social gets effectively told to **** off.

If I can barely stand teaming with 5 people I don;t like, chances are I really
don't want to team with 11 people I don't like.


Which brings about the mass cries from the ignorant and the silly BUT ITZ AN EM EM OH, JU STOOPD FEWL!!!1!!!1!! GO PLAYYE UR SNGLE PLYR NWN2!!1!!!!!1!!!


*sigh*

Regardless of it being an EM EM OH... you can not lift a single finger in group combat and still exist in a world of competition and interaction with other players.

I could never ever join a team and still benefit from other players.


However, I'm not even asking for SOLO raid loot (as much as I'd like it).

Instead, I'm asking that we be allowed to quest for raid loot.

Raids are not difficult. If they were so difficult, people wouldn't be two and three manning them, now would they? (Of course we conveniently gloss over this part...)

So again, Raiding is about the time you invest in the raid.

And Raiders LOVE to be on top. They love their loot status, they love the ego stroke it gives them.

They do.

Don't lie.

Don't think otherwise.

So when someone comes along and says "I'm willing to invest three to four times more individual effort into something you get relatively cheaply" they scream and they hollar and they carry on for several pages.

Like above.

[BUpcott]

Since when is raiding DIFFICULT?

No... seriously... Raiding, more than anything else is time consuming, and forces you to group with people.

So you want extra special bright shinies because... you're social?

That's what it boils down to.

I have lots of friends, I have a great big guild, I'ma gunna get me some neato new gearz!

Whereas someone who doesn't want to be social gets effectively told to **** off.

If I can barely stand teaming with 5 people I don;t like, chances are I really
don't want to team with 11 people I don't like.


Which brings about the mass cries from the ignorant and the silly BUT ITZ AN EM EM OH, JU STOOPD FEWL!!!1!!!1!! GO PLAYYE UR SNGLE PLYR NWN2!!1!!!!!1!!!


*sigh*

Regardless of it being an EM EM OH... you can not lift a single finger in group combat and still exist in a world of competition and interaction with other players.

I could never ever join a team and still benefit from other players.


However, I'm not even asking for SOLO raid loot (as much as I'd like it).

Instead, I'm asking that we be allowed to quest for raid loot.

Raids are not difficult. If they were so difficult, people wouldn't be two and three manning them, now would they? (Of course we conveniently gloss over this part...)

So again, Raiding is about the time you invest in the raid.

And Raiders LOVE to be on top. They love their loot status, they love the ego stroke it gives them.

They do.

Don't lie.

Don't think otherwise.

So when someone comes along and says "I'm willing to invest three to four times more individual effort into something you get relatively cheaply" they scream and they hollar and they carry on for several pages.

Like above.

I am going to let someone else take this one for now...

[The_Cataclysm]

Since when is raiding DIFFICULT?

No... seriously... Raiding, more than anything else is time consuming, and forces you to group with people.

So you want extra special bright shinies because... you're social?

That's what it boils down to.

I have lots of friends, I have a great big guild, I'ma gunna get me some neato new gearz!

Whereas someone who doesn't want to be social gets effectively told to **** off.

If I can barely stand teaming with 5 people I don;t like, chances are I really
don't want to team with 11 people I don't like.


Which brings about the mass cries from the ignorant and the silly BUT ITZ AN EM EM OH, JU STOOPD FEWL!!!1!!!1!! GO PLAYYE UR SNGLE PLYR NWN2!!1!!!!!1!!!


*sigh*

Regardless of it being an EM EM OH... you can not lift a single finger in group combat and still exist in a world of competition and interaction with other players.

I could never ever join a team and still benefit from other players.


However, I'm not even asking for SOLO raid loot (as much as I'd like it).

Instead, I'm asking that we be allowed to quest for raid loot.

Raids are not difficult. If they were so difficult, people wouldn't be two and three manning them, now would they? (Of course we conveniently gloss over this part...)

So again, Raiding is about the time you invest in the raid.

And Raiders LOVE to be on top. They love their loot status, they love the ego stroke it gives them.

They do.

Don't lie.

Don't think otherwise.

So when someone comes along and says "I'm willing to invest three to four times more individual effort into something you get relatively cheaply" they scream and they hollar and they carry on for several pages.

Like above.

So just find one or two people to raid. Problem solved.

[Oran_Lathor]

Go back and read my post on page one, Dingo. The game already has what you are looking for. Every raid we have can be done in groups of 3 (or less), and 2 (3 if you count Tempest) can be solo'd. Ironically, they tend to be easier with smaller groups, even.

So, that said, move on and come up with another wonderful idea... I don't know about you, but I was thinking maybe unlimited songs for bards? :D

[Patience]

Hi everyone,

Having a nice night? :)

Please don't post in a thread if you have nothing to contribute except personal attacks. In fact, I'd advise everyone to just stop with the personal attacks altogether, whether they're mixed in with a useful post or not - especially since we'll delete your otherwise useful post because you couldn't restrain yourself from getting a jab in at someone else.

If you have a problem with another user, please feel free to use the Ignore option. Here, I'll even walk you through how to do it:

Click on the user's name at the top of their post.
Click on "View Public Profile"
Click on "Add <username" to Your Ignore List
Click on "Save List"

Ta da! Problem solved! :D

-Meghan

[Cheg]

Since when is raiding DIFFICULT?

No... seriously... Raiding, more than anything else is time consuming, and forces you to group with people.

So you want extra special bright shinies because... you're social?

That's what it boils down to.

I have lots of friends, I have a great big guild, I'ma gunna get me some neato new gearz!

Whereas someone who doesn't want to be social gets effectively told to **** off.

If I can barely stand teaming with 5 people I don;t like, chances are I really
don't want to team with 11 people I don't like.


Which brings about the mass cries from the ignorant and the silly BUT ITZ AN EM EM OH, JU STOOPD FEWL!!!1!!!1!! GO PLAYYE UR SNGLE PLYR NWN2!!1!!!!!1!!!


*sigh*

Regardless of it being an EM EM OH... you can not lift a single finger in group combat and still exist in a world of competition and interaction with other players.

I could never ever join a team and still benefit from other players.


However, I'm not even asking for SOLO raid loot (as much as I'd like it).

Instead, I'm asking that we be allowed to quest for raid loot.

Raids are not difficult. If they were so difficult, people wouldn't be two and three manning them, now would they? (Of course we conveniently gloss over this part...)

So again, Raiding is about the time you invest in the raid.

And Raiders LOVE to be on top. They love their loot status, they love the ego stroke it gives them.

They do.

Don't lie.

Don't think otherwise.

So when someone comes along and says "I'm willing to invest three to four times more individual effort into something you get relatively cheaply" they scream and they hollar and they carry on for several pages.

Like above.

So you hate grouping with people, and your answer to that is to make a quest where you group with people for raid loot. Gotcha.

This game is totally based around being social. 6-12 man parties, integrated voice chat, chat system, friends list, mailbox. Face it, it caters for the social groups. You anti-social guys are always gonna get the chewed end of the stick, whether you like it or not.

I presume you have solo'd every single bit of experience on all of your characters, seeing as parties are the devil, and are only full of 12 year kids squeeling about their dog called fluffles.

Don't use party chat, don't use voice chat, turn your sounds off, remove every possibility for someone to know your there. Blend into those shadows. Maybe they didn't see you.

Unless you haven't noticed, every single one of your "ideas" has been bound, gagged, tied to a stake, and shot to pieces. Ask yourself why. Actually, better yet, go to Paint, and draw your idea. Although here, this is what i think your idea's look like: http://xc2.xanga.com/68dd520b5543599918761/z70342090.jpg

Solo zones where you get experience just for killing a monster, and free SP/HP reserves? Sweet, Invincibility and Free Experience.
Free Healing Spells? Sweet, the whole party is invincible!
Raidless Raid Loot? Sweet, let's get raid loot, without a raid!
Experience Potions? Sweet, now i can make that capped toon in 2 hours. Maybe 3, depends how much i can click.

Just take the hint, please.

[Ghoste]

Click on the user's name at the top of their post.
Click on "View Public Profile"
Click on "Add <username" to Your Ignore List
Click on "Save List"

Ta da! Problem solved! :D

-Meghan
Thank you. I actually didnt know you could do that. This is very useful.

[Arlith]

Thank you. I actually didnt know you could do that. This is very useful.


But not as much fun.

[smodge13]

but if we insult him, then the thread gets deleted, and noone has to ever read the stupid idea suggested ever again

[shermahawk]

Ta Da! problem solved. ;)

[Shamguard]

OMG Dingo!:eek: You really are funny. Now I am begining to wonder if you even "really" play this game? Because if you did you would realize that you effectively already have this. (LOL) It's call loot from higher level dungeons. I don't run raids very often myself but it's more because of the current loot mechanics, and the quality of the dances they call raid dungeons. All that aside I don't feel like I'm running inferior characters just because the only raid loot I have is a KDS that now sits in my bank because I now have better equipment, that I pulled from regular quests.

Personaly I think the whole raid loot thing is silly anyway. I would love to see more raids like TS and fewer like the raid dances that have been added since.

[Gornin]

Hi everyone,

Having a nice night? :)

Please don't post in a thread if you have nothing to contribute except personal attacks. In fact, I'd advise everyone to just stop with the personal attacks altogether, whether they're mixed in with a useful post or not - especially since we'll delete your otherwise useful post because you couldn't restrain yourself from getting a jab in at someone else.

If you have a problem with another user, please feel free to use the Ignore option. Here, I'll even walk you through how to do it:

Click on the user's name at the top of their post.
Click on "View Public Profile"
Click on "Add <username" to Your Ignore List
Click on "Save List"

Ta da! Problem solved! :D

-Meghan

I disagree with you at the risk of being banned. I have many things I would like to say but won't, since I will be censured. This warning is unfair to the majority.

[Snike]

Some of us hate doing anything but PvP. In fact, some of us REALLY hate doing anything but PvP. Consequently, we try to avoid it. However, those of us that do get shafted in the pwnagability department. I would like to see this change.

My proposal is that there be created an exceptionally long series of PvP killing that allows you to choose from a list of raid quality gear and EXP. For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16 PvP kills.

This balances out the normal gamer of difficulty/manpower with the PvPer investment of time.

[Deriaz]

For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16 PvP kills.

This balances out the normal gamer of difficulty/manpower with the PvPer investment of time.

But on this same note, couldn't two friends just say "Ok, I kill you 12 (Or however many) times, get my reward. Then it's your turn."?

Unless of course, it keeps track of the name of the person you killed, and if they were within, I dunno, a level or two of you. Cause you could also have a level 14 just herd a bunch of level 1s down there, Cleave them down, and get a reward.

Would be hard to implement, I'd imagine.

-D

[Cheg]

But on this same note, couldn't two friends just say "Ok, I kill you 12 (Or however many) times, get my reward. Then it's your turn."?

Unless of course, it keeps track of the name of the person you killed, and if they were within, I dunno, a level or two of you. Cause you could also have a level 14 just herd a bunch of level 1s down there, Cleave them down, and get a reward.

Would be hard to implement, I'd imagine.

-D

PvP based raid loot... Snike are you Dingo in disguise? Apart from being very easily abused (Guild with lots of members?), It doesnt involve the key factor... a RAID.

[Arlith]

PvP based raid loot... Snike are you Dingo in disguise? Apart from being very easily abused (Guild with lots of members?), It doesnt involve the key factor... a RAID.

LMAO! I was just thinking the same thing!

[Dingo123]

LMAO! I was just thinking the same thing!

He was making a post lampooning me.

[ArkoHighStar]

I will simply refer you to the following
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=107382

All static loot hereafter called raidless raid loot for your sake is listed along with the raid loot you so despise(or crave, I'm not sure which)

What you have asked for is already in the game and is available in the following quests chains


Waterworks
Halls of Shantokor or STK as it is known
Catacombs
TangleRoot Gorge
Delera's Graveyard
Greymoon/Cult of the Six
Ruins of Threnal


All these quest chains have a list of semi static items, a list of which is found in the attached link, so voila raidless raid loot. In fact for a raid you will have to run them 20 times for a shot at half the list as an end reward. For these quests you have a shot every time you finish the chain at a portion of the raidless raid loot. Do not ask for the list to contain all items every time as it once did, and due to popular demand it was changed due to the fact that everyone had pretty much the same gear and once you had it you would never run the quest again.

Now the Litany of the dead series has a static necklace that gets upgraded with each series you finish, so there another piece of raidless raid loot.

Black Anvil Mines has a set of rewards that are available once you obtain a set of adamantine ore, since you like to solo one run and you will have enough to obtain anything on the list.

Invaders! has outsider tokens that once you acquire enogh can be traded in for anothe list of items. ( this will require multiple runs as only 1-3 are given out per run per party member and they bind.

There ask and yee shall recieve

[GeneralDiomedes]

I think the OP true colors have finally come out, surprised it took this long.

[Arnya]

Some of us hate doing anything but PvP. In fact, some of us REALLY hate doing anything but PvP. Consequently, we try to avoid it. However, those of us that do get shafted in the pwnagability department. I would like to see this change.

My proposal is that there be created an exceptionally long series of PvP killing that allows you to choose from a list of raid quality gear and EXP. For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16 PvP kills.

This balances out the normal gamer of difficulty/manpower with the PvPer investment of time.

I would like to say there is no place for PVP in this game, but there is: it keeps selfish non-cooperative people out of groups for a good part of the time...

[ArkoHighStar]

I would like to say there is no place for PVP in this game, but there is: it keeps selfish non-cooperative people out of groups for a good part of the time...

you know he was being sarcastic right.
And as for your remarks about PVP, I am glad you have partied with every player who has ever enjoyed some time in the pvp pit, and know how everyone in this game plays, because your comment is worse than anything Dingo here has put up for debate. You have insulted a large number of high quality players with a very broad unsubstantiated statement that is just uninformed

[Arnya]

Thanks for your input. I was here before PVP and am glad it was instituted. I stand by my comments.

EDIT: And you know he was sarcastic? let he who is without sin cast the first stone my friend

[ArkoHighStar]

Thanks for your input. I was here before PVP and am glad it was instituted. I stand by my comments.

I am happy for you, I have been here since beta, and play with all sorts of players many pvp and some don't. Sorry you have had a bad experience on Sarlona, we on Argo have no problem being able to do both it seems, so I have little to offer in the way of advice


EDIT: And you know he was sarcastic? let he who is without sin cast the first stone my friend

Even Dingo got it:D , sorry you didn't:eek:

[nbhs275]

Im order of ease:

1: DQ. The actual raid takes a total of ten minutes to solo, on my bard. Cakewalk

2: Dragon. Easy. Just gotta get past the runes. After that its smooth sailing. Von 6 can be Duoed, but is an easy trio. I have done it with 2 bards and a sorcerer.

3: Reaver. Can be soloed by rangers//fighters//clerics//wizards and anyone else with the right tactics and equipment. EASY trio, but does take some skill and timing, and puzzle ability

4: Titan. Can be Duoed, but is an easy enough trio with a good group. Takes a good amount of cordination and timing. Success is probable, but not a given, with the titans agro roaming and pillars being touchy.

And Dingo123, if most people(read: ALLLL!) then why do you put up such a fight? maybe those 30-50 players say its a bad idea with no vote for it, then it most probably is a bad idea. Also, when the only supporting arguement you can make is insults, personal jabs and childish remarks, it doesnt help your case much. Please stop posting your ideas, they are not apreciatted and you will be flamed.

So if you post another "super horrible idea" thread, you better bring some aloe

[Arnya]

I am happy for you, I have been here since beta, and play with all sorts of players many pvp and some don't. Sorry you have had a bad experience on Sarlona, we on Argo have no problem being able to do both it seems, so I have little to offer in the way of advice

Even Dingo got it:D , sorry you didn't:eek:


Sarcasm or no, there is no(t much) place in a DnD based game where there are no evil alignments for player versus player combat. If it smokes your tyres to kill other players I'm really happy for you.

This is the first MMO where I feel a sense of community and the idea of not (really) being able to greif and harass other players is fairly rigidly enforced.

Most of the harassment occurs here, on the forums. This is supposedly a place for players to voice opinions on how to better the game and remove any game breaking or exploitable bugs, for the betterment of our enjoyment of a team based game. Which is why, I believe, PvP was 'chucked in', in the back rooms of a few taverns and not really looked at by devs since.

Dingo's posts are not doing anything for the betterment of this game and serve only to annoy other forum-goers looking for decent advice or recommendations on how to make this a better game for all of us.

Heck, why do you think they merged the servers, if not to make it easier to find GROUPS; denfinitely not more PvP opponents.

/rant off

[Dingo123]

I think the OP true colors have finally come out, surprised it took this long.

Say what?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I would like to say there is no place for PVP in this game, but there is: it keeps selfish non-cooperative people out of groups for a good part of the time...

It's good for trying out new weapons on guildies too :D

[Arnya]

It's good for trying out new weapons on guildies too :D

I know, it's the only time i step foot in there. Unless some punk is greifing a guildie. Then Torche comes and makes them look very small and silly.

There's no real competition when a sorc enters the pit which is why people cry unbalance.

Just not my bag, and a lot of PnP old boys would agree with me.

[philo]

what we need is raid loot that is actually required in order to beat the next line of content.

If you had to equip everyone in your guild with ALL dragon loot in order to even have a chance to beat the titan..and then equip everyone in your guild with titan loot to even have a chance to beat the marilith etc this game would be much more challenging and give people something to do.

As is the raid loot is semi useless.

Gear means little in this game compared to many others. A group of people who have never done any raid can easily go in and beat reaver (the newest raid). There is no required raid progression.

[Arnya]

what we need is raid loot that is actually required in order to beat the next line of content.

If you had to equip everyone in your guild with ALL dragon loot in order to even have a chance to beat the titan..and then equip everyone in your guild with titan loot to even have a chance to beat the marilith etc this game would be much more challenging and give people something to do.

As is the raid loot is semi useless.

Gear means little in this game compared to many others. A group of people who have never done any raid can easily go in and beat reaver (the newest raid). There is no required raid progression.

I like the sound of this. Especially if it does away with flagging prerequisite quests.

For example: Titan sigil, once taken through the forge opens up the Vault of Night. This would mean VoN 1-4 would be a one off run, and having beaten the titan and upgrading the sigil is the raid flag.

Interesting idea... :)

Too bad it ends up here, in 5th equal tied 'Worst Forum Thread Of Any Forum, Ever' (for the other 4 qualifiers, please search for threads started by OP)

[ArkoHighStar]

Sarcasm or no, there is no(t much) place in a DnD based game where there are no evil alignments for player versus player combat. If it smokes your tyres to kill other players I'm really happy for you.

This is the first MMO where I feel a sense of community and the idea of not (really) being able to greif and harass other players is fairly rigidly enforced.

Most of the harassment occurs here, on the forums. This is supposedly a place for players to voice opinions on how to better the game and remove any game breaking or exploitable bugs, for the betterment of our enjoyment of a team based game. Which is why, I believe, PvP was 'chucked in', in the back rooms of a few taverns and not really looked at by devs since.

Dingo's posts are not doing anything for the betterment of this game and serve only to annoy other forum-goers looking for decent advice or recommendations on how to make this a better game for all of us.

Heck, why do you think they merged the servers, if not to make it easier to find GROUPS; denfinitely not more PvP opponents.

/rant off


while I don't think there is much disagreement among most forum posters as to Dingo's posts, I think attacking those who enjoy pvp'ing does not help either. Before the merge on Argo we never had the problems that other servers had with low populations so getting a party was never a problem. But some nights or in between quests many players had and still do enjoy a small amount of rivalry in the pvp pits. It is good harmless fun for those who want to participate.

I do completely agree that open pvp would not help this game at all, but lumping anyone who happens to pvp into the same group is a mistake.
PVP was added for the Asian and to a lesser extent the European market where they both have functional pvp leaderboards.

[ArkoHighStar]

I like the sound of this. Especially if it does away with flagging prerequisite quests.

For example: Titan sigil, once taken through the forge opens up the Vault of Night. This would mean VoN 1-4 would be a one off run, and having beaten the titan and upgrading the sigil is the raid flag.

Interesting idea... :)

Too bad it ends up here, in 5th equal tied 'Worst Forum Thread Of Any Forum, Ever' (for the other 4 qualifiers, please search for threads started by OP)

The drop rate of raid loot would not permit this idea. there are very few have every piece of dragon loot on their characters, most if not all have maybe 1 or 2 items. I think the current method for flagging for the raid is good enough. It requires some up front effort but once done you can raid as often as you want. My personal view is we need more standalone raids that are not 20 minute puzzles, but more like Tempest Spine, who cares about raid loot when you can have fun in a raid again.:D

[Arnya]

I do not disagree with you either, but please understand I did not accuse all PvP enthusiasts as being selfish etc, just that PvP keeps these people away from me. Which I like. Even if PvP has no appeal to me it makes my gaming experience better in a roundabout sort of way :).

[Arnya]

The drop rate of raid loot would not permit this idea. there are very few have every piece of dragon loot on their characters, most if not all have maybe 1 or 2 items. I think the current method for flagging for the raid is good enough. It requires some up front effort but once done you can raid as often as you want. My personal view is we need more standalone raids that are not 20 minute puzzles, but more like Tempest Spine, who cares about raid loot when you can have fun in a raid again.:D

Maybe you misunderstood a little here.

I would HATE having to acquire a piece of raid loot, under the current or planned systems, in order to participate in another raid.

More like a token that confirms completion of one raid to allow acces to the next raid, or chain of quests leading to said raid.

This would have to be allocated to all members of the group on completion. Or something...

[Snike]

Yes it was sarcasm, sorry it was so hard to miss.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I know, it's the only time i step foot in there. Unless some punk is greifing a guildie. Then Torche comes and makes them look very small and silly.

There's no real competition when a sorc enters the pit which is why people cry unbalance.

Just not my bag, and a lot of PnP old boys would agree with me.

Just image if they let you use your full set of spells in there :cool:

[Lightdragon]

It is interesting to hear all these power gamers tell people how easy the raids can be. The problem is that this game does not force you to maximize your build. Many people join the game and don't know exactly where to put every point they have in which stats. Please do not tell them to join these power guilds out there because these guilds have closed their membership a long time ago because with their tweaked to perfection characters (and the occasional glitch method), they don't need to recruit any more people to raid.

So what will happen in the long run? The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. That's the way the power boys like it. It sickens me to hear these people talk down to the newer players who have not played since beta.

I'm going to let you folks in on a secret. If you continue to shut out and make fun of these new players, you will be playing this game alone. It is this attitude that has stopped this game's growth to begin with ( along with the release of other games). In the end, those guildees you rely on to run those raids will change to Konan or whatever the hot new game is that gets their attention.

Now to address the idea behind the loot system, this system needs massive improvement in what it drops, or there needs to be static rewards for high level quest lines. Come on, how many of you are going to use CO6 end rewards on a level 14 character?

It should not require a perfectly organized attack from experienced players to get these rewards. Most of the new players in this game cannot get into these guilds (and you know it because you're the ones shutting them out.) So I do vote that the developers should have more static tables in this game. Even if they don't have raid loot in them, they should have bind on acquire items that are really strong for their level.

[ChaosTheEternal]

It is interesting to hear all these power gamers tell people how easy the raids can be. <snip>Key words here:

can be

The raids are supposed to be difficult. And when you start running them, they are difficult. But just like every other quest, the more you do it, the better you get at it, and the easier the quest gets.

At this point, people who have done the raids more and more have little trouble. Why? Because they know how to do it, they know what to expect, and they know what to bring. But on the first few runs, you can guarantee they failed or went through a ton of resources, or even both.

The guild I'm in, when we first started doing the Reaver raid, it was costly (range of nearly a hundred Heal and Mass Cure Moderate scrolls) and we needed a full party with two clerics.

Now? We've done 4 and 5 man runs with one cleric (we have enough in guild to spread them out to one a run) without using a single scroll. That's after doing multiple runs each time we had characters ready, getting used to how to run the raid.

The raids can be easy, once you know how to run them. No need to be a twinked powergamer, you just need experience. And it doesn't hurt to try and run under someone's wing until you feel you know it enough to lead a raid run yourself.

[Vyctor]

Come on, how many of you are going to use CO6 end rewards on a level 14 character?

I still use the mummified bat on some of my lvl 14 characters.

[nbhs275]

It is interesting to hear all these power gamers tell people how easy the raids can be. The problem is that this game does not force you to maximize your build. Many people join the game and don't know exactly where to put every point they have in which stats. Please do not tell them to join these power guilds out there because these guilds have closed their membership a long time ago because with their tweaked to perfection characters (and the occasional glitch method), they don't need to recruit any more people to raid.

So what will happen in the long run? The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. That's the way the power boys like it. It sickens me to hear these people talk down to the newer players who have not played since beta.

I'm going to let you folks in on a secret. If you continue to shut out and make fun of these new players, you will be playing this game alone. It is this attitude that has stopped this game's growth to begin with ( along with the release of other games). In the end, those guildees you rely on to run those raids will change to Konan or whatever the hot new game is that gets their attention.

Now to address the idea behind the loot system, this system needs massive improvement in what it drops, or there needs to be static rewards for high level quest lines. Come on, how many of you are going to use CO6 end rewards on a level 14 character?

It should not require a perfectly organized attack from experienced players to get these rewards. Most of the new players in this game cannot get into these guilds (and you know it because you're the ones shutting them out.) So I do vote that the developers should have more static tables in this game. Even if they don't have raid loot in them, they should have bind on acquire items that are really strong for their level.


Let's see. I ran the DQ about ten times before i figured out the quest. It's just a matter of putting an effort foward to learning them. Same with dragon. I remember running it with twelve guildies, it taking over three hours, and us all wiping as we rushed her(we actually ran to her back legs. Ellies spawn, we die, good times).

When titan came out it took forever for ppl to figure out. I would'nt know exactly, is just recently I ASKED a friend who knew it. That's all it takes. Ask around, and im sure you can find someone willing to help you.

[SockMonkey]

Raidless raid loot.... is well the title says enough no need to flog this horse any more. .. How ever a higher level quest chain that gives out a semi static loot set that is say one level better than it should be but binds like tangleroot wouldnt be a bad thing. The precidence is there, and it would not invalidate raid loot in any way unless the dev's themselves made the items uber.

Some people need to step back from the keyboard and think.... "I flogged the horse and told it was ********...." move on, even the people who are taking up the other sides arguement still think the original ideas/posts are... (how to say ******** with out getting points..) I dont know.. How about we all make one post about why we think the idea is good/bad then move on... sooner or later parties will either get it or move on to a game that is the things they are looking for its proven!

Sock

[Riddikulus]

If you have a problem with another user, please feel free to use the Ignore option. Here, I'll even walk you through how to do it:

Click on the user's name at the top of their post.
Click on "View Public Profile"
Click on "Add <username" to Your Ignore List
Click on "Save List"

Ta da! Problem solved! :D

-Meghan
Hm... doesn't work:

vBulletin Message
Sorry Patience is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.

:D

[Spookydodger]

Has anyone pointed out that Dingo is already going to get his wish?

After 20 completions, your normal loot chests will offer loot pulled from the raid loot table.

So, for the Titan as an example, after running 3+40 missions (HIPs (if needed), Ghola Fan, Shrieking Mines) + 20 pre-raids + 20 raids, you'll have a couple of chests of raid-quality loot.

It's certainly not the 16 different missions. However, it will guarantee you some raid loot.

Honestly, though... after 10 or 15 times of running something, it would seem that sheer chance would dictate you would get some loot out of it. Especially at this late stage of the various raids available, as many characters have the loot already.

It also seems to me that my characters are just as effective with the incredibly small amount of raid loot as they would be otherwise. Sure some items give you an edge, but "smart play" is the best equipment of all.

[Spookydodger]

Hm... doesn't work:

vBulletin Message
Sorry Patience is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.

:D

Boy, they think of everything in this system.

[Hendrik]

It is interesting to hear all these power gamers tell people how easy the raids can be. The problem is that this game does not force you to maximize your build. Many people join the game and don't know exactly where to put every point they have in which stats. Please do not tell them to join these power guilds out there because these guilds have closed their membership a long time ago because with their tweaked to perfection characters (and the occasional glitch method), they don't need to recruit any more people to raid.

So what will happen in the long run? The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. That's the way the power boys like it. It sickens me to hear these people talk down to the newer players who have not played since beta.

I'm going to let you folks in on a secret. If you continue to shut out and make fun of these new players, you will be playing this game alone. It is this attitude that has stopped this game's growth to begin with ( along with the release of other games). In the end, those guildees you rely on to run those raids will change to Konan or whatever the hot new game is that gets their attention.

Now to address the idea behind the loot system, this system needs massive improvement in what it drops, or there needs to be static rewards for high level quest lines. Come on, how many of you are going to use CO6 end rewards on a level 14 character?

It should not require a perfectly organized attack from experienced players to get these rewards. Most of the new players in this game cannot get into these guilds (and you know it because you're the ones shutting them out.) So I do vote that the developers should have more static tables in this game. Even if they don't have raid loot in them, they should have bind on acquire items that are really strong for their level.

That's a problem? Forcing me into a build that I do not want to play/create is a problem! Giving players OPTIONS in flexibility and choices is NEVER a problem.


Kinda like how your talking down to people here? Gotcha...

There are a lot of 'lower level' gear that's still of use to capped characters. Here, I'll return the favor and let you in on a little secret. Ever hear of Ring of Feathers? Trapblast Goggles? Mummified Bat? Golden Cartouche?

[Arnya]

Yes it was sarcasm, sorry it was so hard to miss.

Not when you see some of the posts from before the great forum nerf. There were plenty of people who were only interested in PvP. Kinda sad, really considering the awesome game we have here.

And I use plenty of end rewards at lvl14. I'm still running Co6 every other week for new quicksilver cassocks, TR for visors and deleras for carnifexes. These items are awesome.

[Arlith]

It is interesting to hear all these power gamers tell people how easy the raids can be. The problem is that this game does not force you to maximize your build. Many people join the game and don't know exactly where to put every point they have in which stats. Please do not tell them to join these power guilds out there because these guilds have closed their membership a long time ago because with their tweaked to perfection characters (and the occasional glitch method), they don't need to recruit any more people to raid.

So what will happen in the long run? The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. That's the way the power boys like it. It sickens me to hear these people talk down to the newer players who have not played since beta.

I'm going to let you folks in on a secret. If you continue to shut out and make fun of these new players, you will be playing this game alone. It is this attitude that has stopped this game's growth to begin with ( along with the release of other games). In the end, those guildees you rely on to run those raids will change to Konan or whatever the hot new game is that gets their attention.

Now to address the idea behind the loot system, this system needs massive improvement in what it drops, or there needs to be static rewards for high level quest lines. Come on, how many of you are going to use CO6 end rewards on a level 14 character?

It should not require a perfectly organized attack from experienced players to get these rewards. Most of the new players in this game cannot get into these guilds (and you know it because you're the ones shutting them out.) So I do vote that the developers should have more static tables in this game. Even if they don't have raid loot in them, they should have bind on acquire items that are really strong for their level.

Wow... I mean, just wow. I'd check your wheaties before you eat them again.

But on to business:

The "Power Gamers" on here that I have met (I am not a power gamer BTW) have all been more than willing to help whenever help is asked for, or advice requested. Everytime I have seen "power gamers" get attitudes, someone has given them grief first. I have seen "power gamers" drop what they are doing and run quests so someone less capable can see how it is run, or get loot out of it. I have seen them fess up items and equipment to others. They discuss builds, strategy, feats, enhancements, equipment with anyone willing to ask, and then willing to learn. Let me say that again - Willing to learn.

Some guilds are closed. But I would be willing to bet most are not closed because they don't want "newbs". Guilds that grow uncontrolled follow a cycle. They start out good, then factions form within the guild, then tension sets in and the guild shatters. Parts splinter off to form new guilds. It takes leaders willing to devote time and energy to a guild to keep a truly large guild going. Others limit size to prevent this from happening. Some guilds are not "closed", they just have a passive recruiting technique. Meaning they find someone who is "compatible", run a few quests with them, run a few more with other guild members before they are asked to join.

It's easy to say that only "power gamers" object to all these changes. But it isn't true. I don't solo, or two man, or three man the reaver, or the dragon, or the titan. I don't kick arse in PvP, I don't lead kill counts, etc etc. I object to these changes, not because I am a power gamer, but because when these milestones are met, I want them to be WORTH something. I don't want it to be something I can do because Turbine implemented a "Welfare loot system" and all of a sudden I can kill anything.

I also find it funny that you say these folks can do these things because their toons are "maxed out". They can do them, because they do them. Again and again. They figure out ways to avoid this damage, or cause that damage. They die, then die again, and then die again. They don't go in there, say this quest is too hard, I need better equipment, and call it quits.

Blaming "power gamers" is the worst type of cop out.

Consider the following:

There will always be peple in this game who are just better than you are at it. Some have more time to play, some have better hand eye coordination, some have been playing video games all their lives and just blow others away. What are you gonna do, who are you gonna blame, when Turbine gives in, gives you what you want and you still can't do what they do?

[nbhs275]

Wow... I mean, just wow. I'd check your wheaties before you eat them again.

But on to business:

The "Power Gamers" on here that I have met (I am not a power gamer BTW) have all been more than willing to help whenever help is asked for, or advice requested. Everytime I have seen "power gamers" get attitudes, someone has given them grief first. I have seen "power gamers" drop what they are doing and run quests so someone less capable can see how it is run, or get loot out of it. I have seen them fess up items and equipment to others. They discuss builds, strategy, feats, enhancements, equipment with anyone willing to ask, and then willing to learn. Let me say that again - Willing to learn.

Some guilds are closed. But I would be willing to bet most are not closed because they don't want "newbs". Guilds that grow uncontrolled follow a cycle. They start out good, then factions form within the guild, then tension sets in and the guild shatters. Parts splinter off to form new guilds. It takes leaders willing to devote time and energy to a guild to keep a truly large guild going. Others limit size to prevent this from happening. Some guilds are not "closed", they just have a passive recruiting technique. Meaning they find someone who is "compatible", run a few quests with them, run a few more with other guild members before they are asked to join.

It's easy to say that only "power gamers" object to all these changes. But it isn't true. I don't solo, or two man, or three man the reaver, or the dragon, or the titan. I don't kick arse in PvP, I don't lead kill counts, etc etc. I object to these changes, not because I am a power gamer, but because when these milestones are met, I want them to be WORTH something. I don't want it to be something I can do because Turbine implemented a "Welfare loot system" and all of a sudden I can kill anything.

I also find it funny that you say these folks can do these things because their toons are "maxed out". They can do them, because they do them. Again and again. They figure out ways to avoid this damage, or cause that damage. They die, then die again, and then die again. They don't go in there, say this quest is too hard, I need better equipment, and call it quits.

Blaming "power gamers" is the worst type of cop out.

Consider the following:

There will always be peple in this game who are just better than you are at it. Some have more time to play, some have better hand eye coordination, some have been playing video games all their lives and just blow others away. What are you gonna do, who are you gonna blame, when Turbine gives in, gives you what you want and you still can't do what they do?

/cheer!!

exactly. The "power gamer" is the person willing to learn. Noone started knowing how to beat the dragon//titan//reaver//demon queen. But people puit foward an effort, spent time and plat and learned.

I guess people consider me a power gamer now, because i've learned. Me and a friend ran DQ probably 50+ times before we finally figured out how to duo her, and finally solo.

And as far as builds, wanna know how to make a great build? listen too people who have good working characters, and know their way around the game. ASK, and you will recieve. Heck, Malidini had a complete thread where he gave build advice and mock ups before the giant thread wipe.

[Sue_Dark]

The ONLY way I'd see the OP's suggestion as viable, would be if it were a 15+ part quest, that could only be advanced inside the quest and the sub-parts could only be entered thru their previous parts. That way you would have to work 2-3x as hard as any raid to get the loot that raiders have a (pitiful) shot at getting now.

Kinda funny really, there are better loot items available, looting giant hold than some of the raids offer. Just go there instead.

[llevenbaxx]

If you want raid loot, you have to raid. Simple as that.

I suppose you want Planar Girds to be purchasable from a vendor, too?

By the way, we already have several quest chains that are plenty long. Greymoon/Co6 is 10 quests, Threnal is 9 quests, the Catacombs are 8(?) quests, Tangleroot is many quests... If you want long quest chains, go do those.

Where is the next teir of these though? I can honestly say that I think the raids are about the lamest thing about this game(can include some preraids in there too). Co6/threnel are the last in the line of these big chain type quests that dont end in a raid(right?), thats level 8 or so if I remember.

These are both also examples of quest(chains) that have been here since launch. Having gear from these used to mean something because they were endgame level type loot at one point.

I dislike the raids just because they reflect D&D(the reason I play DDO) the least. They are the largest departure from D&D that DDO has to offer. Just because MMO type players seem to like this the most about DDO shouldnt mean that people who would rather be doing a D&D type quest should be left out in the cold.

I myself am wondering where in the world is my 14th level equivilent Co6 type quest chains.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Where is the next teir of these though? I can honestly say that I think the raids are about the lamest thing about this game(can include some preraids in there too). Co6/threnel are the last in the line of these big chain type quests that dont end in a raid(right?), thats level 8 or so if I remember.

These are both also examples of quest(chains) that have been here since launch. Having gear from these used to mean something because they were endgame level type loot at one point.

I dislike the raids just because they reflect D&D(the reason I play DDO) the least. They are the largest departure from D&D that DDO has to offer. Just because MMO type players seem to like this the most about DDO shouldnt mean that people who would rather be doing a D&D type quest should be left out in the cold.

I myself am wondering where in the world is my 14th level equivilent Co6 type quest chains.


I agree Raids have nothing to do with D&D, and going the other way they are pitifully small for MMO Raids.

The problem with quest chains is that they are a large time commitment. Unless you have a static group, starting a 6 parter at part 3 is very very very tough. It's tough enough to fill 1 empty spot if somone drops. Many people just don't want to joint TR half way through because if they run it, they want the end reward.

Yup, its better D&D but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work well here... :(

[llevenbaxx]

I agree Raids have nothing to do with D&D, and going the other way they are pitifully small for MMO Raids.

The problem with quest chains is that they are a large time commitment. Unless you have a static group, starting a 6 parter at part 3 is very very very tough. It's tough enough to fill 1 empty spot if somone drops. Many people just don't want to joint TR half way through because if they run it, they want the end reward.

Yup, its better D&D but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work well here... :(

Im not so sure about that. In my experience getting group for those chains was quite easy when they were the endgame. People still do these chain quests all the time. Im always leveling guys up and I still say these quests are the most frequently run(aside from SC and Gwylans maybe).

Yes they are old and tired and alot of people say they dread running them but thats because theyve been here since launch with no alternatives given since then. I would love to see a high level chain for decent experience and maybe just below raid quality STATIC(not semi:)) loot.

I think these nonraid type quest chains would be every bit as popular as raids because I know alot of people ingame that almost never raid more than a couple for the same reason ive stated. It would be a sort of endgame for people who, like me, really dont like where the DDO endgame is heading. All raids.

[blakbyrd]

Another fine idea from the brain of Dingo123.

What will he come up with next?

Haha, I didnt even pay attention to who pasted this one. He is certainly on a roll though.

It appears the consistent theme is that he is simply asking for the game to be dumbed down, remove the challenges and remove the idea of risk vs reward ratios.

On a side note, I can understand the reasoning behind the idea for a way to get good loot outside of a raid. In some ways it makes sense. However, this already exists in the game, and in many cases, raid loot is nice, but there is standard and randomly generated loot which in many ways is almost as good as the raid loot (and in some raids, there is standard loot that is better already, if you meet the level to use them, and at that point you are already there are darn close to it). If you want a shot at high end non-raid loot, then run PoP if you have little time or Crucible if you have more time. Alot of nice high end gear to be had there and many named items as well, without the raid requirement, and as a bonus you are nearly raid ready by doing them. Although they are high level quests, they can be done at level 10 ifyou know what you are doing or have a good group (even lower levels if properly prepared).

Also keep in mind that as the OP states, adding in a quest line of 12-16 quests to obtain near raid-like loot is apparently not very likely to happen. I'm not sure we've ever gotten that many quests in a mod before, and to do what he is asking would require them all at once, or require his idea to be accomplished in a 3-6 month time span before completed, thus making the idea of such loot that far off (even further for them to think about it, design it and implement it...taking probably over a year to accomplish a special chain just for that). Chances are, if the OP is this frustrated with the game already, he wont even be around if that comes to light a year from now.

However, dumbing down the game is not the way to go. Trying to get freebies or near freebies would also be a horrible way to go and severely hurt the game. There are plenty of games out there that cater to that kind of crowd, but DDO isnt really one of them.

[llevenbaxx]

However, dumbing down the game is not the way to go. Trying to get freebies or near freebies would also be a horrible way to go and severely hurt the game. There are plenty of games out there that cater to that kind of crowd, but DDO isnt really one of them.

LOL Come on the raid encounters are the biggest dumbed down part of the game. There is nothing hard about them, some leave parts of the group sitting around doing nothing for periods of time(real fun;) ) or its a very complicated:rolleyes: all out DPS fest. The Reaver raid at least keeps everyone involved I dont really dont have anything bad to say about that but the others are the weakest parts of the game.

If they didnt make them 12 MAN RAIDS and give away the best loot, Im thinking they would be among the least run quests in DDO. Just opinion of course.:)

[Shaamis]

I read this thread, and while I disagree with Dingo's core Idea, he might have a small nugget upon which to build a decent idea.....

Dingo's looking for a way to solo all of DDO, AND get raid-like loot, without having to socialize at all. While this thought alone, is somewhat repulsive to me (why play this game then?) I understand what he wants.

Unfortunately, he's not going to get it. But......

What about quests that either have a really long amount of stages to perform, in order to get "quest-level loot" as opposed to "raid-level loot".

This new type of quest, is a little more intense than Co6/Greymoon, maybe a TS level multi-stage, with better loot equivalent, though not "raid-level" quality.

I would like to see a level 14 version of Co6, with loot equivalent, definately not "raid-level" loot

[oronisi]

Some of us hate raiding. In fact, some of us REALLY hate raiding. Consequently, we try to avoid it. However, those of us that do get shafted in the loot department. I would like to see this change.

My proposal is that there be created an exceptionally long series of quests that allows you to choose from a list of raid quality gear. For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16.

This balances out the raiders investment of difficulty/manpower with the small groups investment of time.

Hey, this is actually not a HORRIBLE idea, though presented poorly. Raid-level loot SHOULD be attainable through other means. Nothing should be so short-sighted or limited in a game based on D&D. Though I hate to break it to you, it already exists in DDO.....and it's called:

DRAGON ARMOR
and
NAMED ITEMS

There are a few named items that drop that are just as powerful and popular as raid items.

What you should be asking for is MORE. More weapons, more items, more of these high level items with interesting powers. Of course, make them all hard to obtain, like the rest.

[oronisi]

Im not so sure about that. In my experience getting group for those chains was quite easy when they were the endgame. People still do these chain quests all the time. Im always leveling guys up and I still say these quests are the most frequently run(aside from SC and Gwylans maybe).

Yes they are old and tired and alot of people say they dread running them but thats because theyve been here since launch with no alternatives given since then. I would love to see a high level chain for decent experience and maybe just below raid quality STATIC(not semi:)) loot.

I think these nonraid type quest chains would be every bit as popular as raids because I know alot of people ingame that almost never raid more than a couple for the same reason ive stated. It would be a sort of endgame for people who, like me, really dont like where the DDO endgame is heading. All raids.

Last I checked there was only 1 max-level raid, while there are several max-level quests. I don't see how the DDO endgame is heading to a raid-focus given what we've been given.

I would like to see more reasons to do content we have, or more content that has a reason to do it, whatever the reason is.

[Vhailor]

As of mod 5 raid loot will function just like normal loot tables in the last chest. In other words everyone will get some random items from the raid with 0-2 raid loot items.

[llevenbaxx]

Last I checked there was only 1 max-level raid, while there are several max-level quests. I don't see how the DDO endgame is heading to a raid-focus given what we've been given.

I would like to see more reasons to do content we have, or more content that has a reason to do it, whatever the reason is.

Yeah, I know. I was just stating that all the CHAIN type stuff that has been added since launch have ALL(to my recolection) ended in raids. There is the Tomb of the XXXX quests but I dont count those as they really are just a bunch of seperate quests with no "real" static loot to choose from at the end.

Its not endgame im overly concerned with really. I would like to do an epic(slightly less epic than a raid is fine i suppose) adventure that didnt end in a raid with the raid loot system. I guess I would just like to see non-raid type epic quest chains. Like stated above Co6/Threnel type stuff but at a much higher level. EDIT When I think about it, I guess with the new loot system I will in a way be getting what I want with a chance of getting random raid loot.

As much as people say these type of quests are unpopular because they take too long, they still get run a hell of alot. Good xps and a decent static loot table at the end. How could that be bad for the game?

Not sure exactly what youre saying with that last comment:confused:

[In_Like_Flynn]

My proposal is that there be created an exceptionally long series of quests that allows you to choose from a list of raid quality gear. For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16.I like this idea.

[Riddikulus]

My proposal is that there be created an exceptionally long series of quests that allows you to choose from a list of raid quality gear. For example, if your average storyline quest chain were 4 quests long, this would be 12 to 16.

I like this idea.
I like it too except for one problem... Can you imagine trying to put together a group for Quest #12? It's hard enough to get people together for Tangleroot in the middle, and that's "only" a 10 parter.

The only way I see something like this working is something like the Titan raid where you have to collect so many sigil pieces before being able to move to the next part so that there is a natural break point where people are likely to be available to regroup later.

[Borrigain]

.....don't know if I on to something here, but from all the other posts and the responses they receive......

has anyone stopped and thought maybe Dingo is doing this just to raise everyone's hackles? :eek:

:D

Just a thought,
Borr.

[Hendrik]

.....don't know if I on to something here, but from all the other posts and the responses they receive......

has anyone stopped and thought maybe Dingo is doing this just to raise everyone's hackles? :eek:

:D

Just a thought,
Borr.

If that is the true purpose, he needs a perm ban immediately.