Why Adjust Difficulty of Proof is in the Poison?

[HumanJHawkins]

So, clearly there was a problem when 90% of groups entering this (and some other) quests couldn't succeed. But why modify the quest, instead of just modifying the level rating?

It seems like it would have been easier (and just as effective) to simply say, "Ok... I guess this is an 8th level quest, as it is too hard for lvl 7"

[Mad_Bombardier]

So, clearly there was a problem when 90% of groups entering this (and some other) quests couldn't succeed. But why modify the quest, instead of just modifying the level rating?

It seems like it would have been easier (and just as effective) to simply say, "Ok... I guess this is an 8th level quest, as it is too hard for lvl 7"Because then they'd have to raise the XP and loot.

[Dariun]

Because then they'd have to raise the XP and loot.

Which would be bad because???

[tihocan]

I agree it would have been easier, and in some way better, to just raise the CR, XP and loot.
I prefer challenge and decent reward to no challenge and **** reward.

[Palmetto]

Which would be bad because???
It wouldn't be bad. They just won't do it.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Which would be bad because???Oops, sorry. I coulda sworn I replied to this earlier.

I never said that would be bad, only that it would be the alternative. :)

[ArkoHighStar]

So, clearly there was a problem when 90% of groups entering this (and some other) quests couldn't succeed. But why modify the quest, instead of just modifying the level rating?

It seems like it would have been easier (and just as effective) to simply say, "Ok... I guess this is an 8th level quest, as it is too hard for lvl 7"

not sure where you got 90% from I have done the quest many times with many different pugs and we have never failed. I have done this quest with all level appropriate groups and although it is a challenge it is not near unbeatable. I for one will lament this quest being nerfed as we have far too many easy quests as it is, this one will just become another quick run through like so many others

[HumanJHawkins]

not sure where you got 90% from I have done the quest many times with many different pugs and we have never failed.

I have to admit that I didn't research this... PiitP might be a bad example. But I was not intending to write about this one quest getting nerfed. Rather, if a decision is made that a quest is too hard... Any quest... The question is why ever nerf a quest, rather than just setting it's rated level more appropriately?

You make the best case for this... You, who do not think it is too difficult, could still run it at it's full strength with your lower level toons. Others, who think it is too hard, could run it with their higher level toons and not get penalized for level.

[Seneca_Windforge]

It's pretty hard for a level four quest. It should either be knocked up to level five or reduced in difficulty.

I'm not saying it's impossible or anything, but for a group of non-twinked level four characters, it's pretty nasty...mostly due to its length. I'd really prefer the "move it to level five" option rather than actually nerfing the power of the enemies inside, though.

[Dwolf]

Or just add one more shrine.

This quest isn't so bad if played intelligently. The problem is most groups dont' do that. It requires a lot of scouting ahead, a lot care in how aggro is drawn, and making the dungeon layout work for you.

As is, its maybe more appropriate as a level 5 quest. Add one more shrine, and it's probably fine as a long and challenging level 4. In some ways, I actually prefer quests like this that reward careful well thought out play than quests that any group can just run through at will.

[Arlith]

It's pretty hard for a level four quest. It should either be knocked up to level five or reduced in difficulty.

I'm not saying it's impossible or anything, but for a group of non-twinked level four characters, it's pretty nasty...mostly due to its length. I'd really prefer the "move it to level five" option rather than actually nerfing the power of the enemies inside, though.

Ive done it several times with non-twinked toons. It is not that bad, if you do not rush in and pull all aggro down at once. This is just one of those quests where a little bit o planning is required. It's fine just the way it is. Everytime I have wiped its because someone has done something stupid.

[Maldini]

So, clearly there was a problem when 90% of groups entering this (and some other) quests couldn't succeed. But why modify the quest, instead of just modifying the level rating?

It seems like it would have been easier (and just as effective) to simply say, "Ok... I guess this is an 8th level quest, as it is too hard for lvl 7"


they made it a 4th level quest on purpose, which means they needed to scale it down. I'm not sure I see your point.

[HumanJHawkins]

they made it a 4th level quest on purpose, which means they needed to scale it down. I'm not sure I see your point.

The point is that Turbine (not me) decided that it was more difficult than a level 4 quest should be. So I asked the question, "Why choose to make it easier, instead of just calling it a level 5 quest?"

[Aesop]

Not really bragging here but after everyone complaining that it was too hard I decided to see what the fuss was about.

So I went and solo'd it with my level 6 character. I died once...stupid Dance (which now they are removing apparently)

I then went back and Solo'd it again... on Hard. (died 3 times... bah twice to my own stupidity...once to lag)

Yeah it was tough. I wouldn't try to solo it soon on Elite... but maybe I'm just a chicken ;)

It was a decent quest over all... the acid puddles are potent as all hell. 40+ damage for a touch (dropped me from 93 hp to 59 with Resist acid up on normal) so anyway... I don't see the need to make this easier. Although it will become tough when they make it so you can't tab target invis guys unless you can see them.


Btw 3Paladin/3Ranger Drow(twf Shortsword specialist) normal run went through 1.5 Cure Mod Wands. went through the other half in the Hard run and 1.5 CSW wands...pricey but fun

Aesop

[Aesop]

Or just add one more shrine.

This quest isn't so bad if played intelligently. The problem is most groups dont' do that. It requires a lot of scouting ahead, a lot care in how aggro is drawn, and making the dungeon layout work for you.

As is, its maybe more appropriate as a level 5 quest. Add one more shrine, and it's probably fine as a long and challenging level 4. In some ways, I actually prefer quests like this that reward careful well thought out play than quests that any group can just run through at will.

/agree

very true I think...though I was annoyed that the mobs would stop following me just when I'd get them to the trap... I understand the logic...but I wanted to roast them alive ;)


Aesop

[Dwolf]

/agree

very true I think...though I was annoyed that the mobs would stop following me just when I'd get them to the trap... I understand the logic...but I wanted to roast them alive ;)


Aesop


I went in on elite with a group that was level 5 to 8. Once people started to think tactically there was only one death. It's not just the fire trap. The acid puddles were great too. Mobs would just stand in them to fight us and die very fast. So i had the rest of the group block off the puddle, i'd run up grab some aggro, run down the stairs, turn, block, and watch the fun.

[MrWizard]

Actually, with our group of level 4s we did find it pretty hard. It is a 4th level quest and our 10 resist did not help at all...and the one shrine...well, it is hard at 4th....

[ArkoHighStar]

they made it a 4th level quest on purpose, which means they needed to scale it down. I'm not sure I see your point.

Again many level appropriate non twinked groups have successfully completed this quest. All it takes is a little bit of tactics, like we used to used to use before we got into zerg mode. It was a throwback to the days when the best stuff you had was +1, and waterworks was a tough quest on normal. I just find it disheartening to finally get a decent standalone quest at lvl 4 that gave out 4000xp on normal. It just felt like you earned that xp for once, instead of crashing through the quest as fast as you can. The acid is the only tough part 36 pts of damage, but there was no mention of it being changed.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Actually zerging through the quest isn't a bad idea either to get maximum usage from your buffs. The quest actually seems to be geared towards the battle cleric as they have all the proper resists and high will saves.

Also .. Acid Protection works wonders on the acid floors in case you screw up.

[Maldini]

The point is that Turbine (not me) decided that it was more difficult than a level 4 quest should be. So I asked the question, "Why choose to make it easier, instead of just calling it a level 5 quest?"


Your point still doesn't make sense. Whether it's level 4 or 5 doesn't matter. 90% of the playerbase burns through those levels rather quickly.

If anything you should be arguing about the ease of high level content and not what they do with low level content.

[Dingo123]

Let them eat Cake.

[HumanJHawkins]

<CUT>If anything you should be arguing about the ease of high level content and not what they do with low level content.

Um... I am not arguing anything. I am asking a question.

There are plenty of threads about how difficult things should be. This is NOT one of them. It it about why a developer would choose one method of solving a percieved problem over another method. And, by extension, whether players prefer one method over another.

I'm guessing this is above your head and you still don't get it... Maybe you should start a thread about whether the GoodYear Blimp is completely black, or is completely white... You know, because those are the only two colors in the world, so if must be one of them.

[Maldini]

Um... I am not arguing anything. I am asking a question.

There are plenty of threads about how difficult things should be. This is NOT one of them. It it about why a developer would choose one method of solving a percieved problem over another method. And, by extension, whether players prefer one method over another.

I'm guessing this is above your head and you still don't get it... Maybe you should start a thread about whether the GoodYear Blimp is completely black, or is completely white... You know, because those are the only two colors in the world, so if must be one of them.


The basic answer is they have an overall game design. They made Proof is Poison a level 4 quest because that's where they thought it would fit in the best. Maybe there wasn't enough level 4 quests or maybe they did it for another reason.

They had to tone it down because the quest designers were a little over zealous in its design. Maybe they were too used to designing high level dungeons and didn't realize it was too difficult for a level 4 quest.