Does Physical Damage matter anymore?

[paintedman]

Seems to me that the groups at higher levels all have the standard fare, vorpral, disruptors, and banishers. While I look at my +5 warhammer and sigh, full knowing that the creature I am beating down will get backstabbed and disappear in a colorful flash as the aforementioned effect happens. Or I'll get up there to swing and a familiar blue tentacle thingy will kill them or a downward pointing hand will end them before I land a punch?

Perhaps I am being a bit cynical, but going forward into the realm of levels 15 -18 what can we expect from the mobs?

I know the elite players won't have much to say, but from the more casual players can I hear if this bothers you? Work arounds? Hopeful suggestions?

-paintedman

[Muirtach]

Got a thread going on about this over on Thelanis. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=118743)

Looks like most of us melee's posting in that thread are all about the DPS in the long run. It was something I tried telling my guildmates about before Gianthold even came out. Anything with a save will become negated eventually due to rising CR levels. Just look at those banishers with a HD limit or waiting for that 1 with your disruptor.

[Dingo123]

Or I'll get up there to swing and a familiar blue tentacle thingy will kill them or a downward pointing hand will end them before I land a punch?

Perhaps I am being a bit cynical, but going forward into the realm of levels 15 -18 what can we expect from the mobs?

I know the elite players won't have much to say, but from the more casual players can I hear if this bothers you? Work arounds? Hopeful suggestions?

-paintedman


Tell me you didn't see this coming.

Those stick waving dress wearing mooks were wearing those dresses and waving those sticks for a reason.

PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER.

The guys you laughed at when they made unhappy faces because you couldn't be bothered to take intimidate because you just HAD to invest in haggle. Those guys you snickered at for their low hp, their piddily armor, and their inability to hit the broadside of a barn, much less go mano e mano with your run of the mill angry troll. Seriously... those guys you laughed at for being gimpy and weak and needing your protection?

Yeah.

About that.

They don't so much need your protection no more. In fact, more and more YOU need THEIR protection.

Turn about is fair pay, BLEE-ATCH.

[Kalanth]

Dingo123's delievery is a bit off, but his point is spot on.

D&D has always had a power curve for classes. Fighters dominate the low end of the spectrum, being able to dish out larger chunks of damage faster than the standard casters. While casters take over in the high ends as the spells they have access to can dish out large amounts of damage in a single shot even on those times when the enemy saves. Vorpals, Disurptors, Banishers, and the like, is D&D and DDO's way of trying to even that gap. As a pure melee or ranged character you will be outshined more times than not by the caster, it's just standard D&D repeating the cycle...

[Dingo123]

Of course damage matters. My pretty statues don't chop up themselves. Relax, you still get the kill count.

heh heh heh.

Kill Count.

[DrAwkward]

Of course damage matters. My pretty statues don't chop up themselves. Relax, you still get the kill count.

[paintedman]

we should all be casters? While yes I understand that the roles reverse as in damage out put, being that insta-kill Finger of Death is greater than +5 holy, pure good, lawful great axe of wounding due to the fact that you actually have to swing the axe, I am referring to melees as a whole, no regard to casters.

My question is geared more to what we can expect coming up. Since the mobs have been scaled to this point that we are at now, how much of a leap is it to expect that the higher level mobs will have defenses up against vorpral, smiting, and banishing. What weapon will we have to use to bring them down then? Even casters will shrug their shoulders when the giant puts on death block and fear immunity items.

My concern is that since we have allowed extremely rare items such as vorprals to be more like uncommon items, what weapon will our fighters equip next?

As for casters, most if not all spells can be protected from, so if you think you are the top dog, just be wary of what will come next.


-paintedman

[Dingo123]

we should all be casters? While yes I understand that the roles reverse as in damage out put, being that insta-kill Finger of Death is greater than +5 holy, pure good, lawful great axe of wounding due to the fact that you actually have to swing the axe, I am referring to melees as a whole, no regard to casters.

My question is geared more to what we can expect coming up. Since the mobs have been scaled to this point that we are at now, how much of a leap is it to expect that the higher level mobs will have defenses up against vorpral, smiting, and banishing. What weapon will we have to use to bring them down then? Even casters will shrug their shoulders when the giant puts on death block and fear immunity items.

My concern is that since we have allowed extremely rare items such as vorprals to be more like uncommon items, what weapon will our fighters equip next?

As for casters, most if not all spells can be protected from, so if you think you are the top dog, just be wary of what will come next.


-paintedman

Sure, spells can be protected from... that's why you get a selection of spells that can use used to maximum effect for the minimum output.

For example... when fighting giants... use Hold Monster, when Fighting Undead use Disintegrate. Giants have low will saves, Undead have no Con score. So on and so forth.

[In_Like_Flynn]

I'm a casual player - four hours a week as per my BA (2005). My favorite weapon is my +1 Holy Burst Greatsword of Pure Good. I have greatswords of all the "top 5" save Banishing, but find them of limited use. I don't think they're necessary.

[paintedman]

Trolls and orgers maybe, but I didn't think hold monster worked on true Giants anymore...

I see more Flesh to Stone being cast on Giants now, don't know why Giants got the boot in Will save, reflex would have made more sense.

But in regards to your template, don't you see that even casters are being corraled into spell selelctions due to end all be all usefulness?

-paintedman

[boldarblood]

Seems to me that the groups at higher levels all have the standard fare, vorpral, disruptors, and banishers. While I look at my +5 warhammer and sigh, full knowing that the creature I am beating down will get backstabbed and disappear in a colorful flash as the aforementioned effect happens. Or I'll get up there to swing and a familiar blue tentacle thingy will kill them or a downward pointing hand will end them before I land a punch?

Perhaps I am being a bit cynical, but going forward into the realm of levels 15 -18 what can we expect from the mobs?

I know the elite players won't have much to say, but from the more casual players can I hear if this bothers you? Work arounds? Hopeful suggestions?

-paintedman

9/10 times DPS > power 5.

I say this even while dual wielding vorpals, smiters, disruptors, etc. There are isolated monsters/dungeons that it sometimes is better to get a vorp off. But a vast majority of the time it is much better to bring out your high end DPS weapons with the other melee in party. It is much more effective.

[Dingo123]

Trolls and orgers maybe, but I didn't think hold monster worked on true Giants anymore...

I see more Flesh to Stone being cast on Giants now, don't know why Giants got the boot in Will save, reflex would have made more sense.

But in regards to your template, don't you see that even casters are being corraled into spell selelctions due to end all be all usefulness?

-paintedman


Well, that's the nature of the game. You use what works. I'm not going to be flinging melfs acid arrow at Oozes. Especially when I can kill the ooze outright with a single spell.

[Leetsneaks101]

My fighter has no Power V weapons... And I do just fine in groups, with my tenderizer and one of the best one hander damage weapons in the game, Bereavement, which lets me crit for 120-140 unbuffed w/ power attack for a total of +40 to my crit (i dont have bloodstone.. working on it)

[Xyfiel]

Some immunities are fine, but they can't make them immune to every high level spell. Wail of banshee and weird spam will be commonplace in a good part of quests. With the Mod5 meta system, we can nuke dps consistently.
Can't think of any quest where you have to have a good melee in.

A great party at high end is a rogue/melee multi, a cleric, and 4 casters.

[Uska]

Dont know lately my fighter/rge has been using his tranmuting everbright weapon and not his power 5 weapons. and usually is in the upper part of the kills. even compared to the casters and I dont have improved crit yet.

[Shade]

As an "elite" players.. In the most elite quests, these tactics fail and pure physical damage certainly matters.. It reigns supreme.

Truely elite melee players have no need for any special weapons. To kill as slow as vorpal or disruption weapon does makes you weak, average and anything but elite.

Tho its true for the sorcerer, death spells are the only way to go in high lvl quests. But when doing mid lvl quests such as older raids like VoN and Titan damage spells do far outshine PK and FoD.
And come mod5, damage spells will once again be the way to go in nearly all quests as max + empower will be very cost effective and aoe dmg will rule.

Will the future hold more quests like the Tor where mobs are imune to death effects? Id say theres a good chance.

[studentx]

I find that my fighter kills faster with an elemental burst weapon or a bane weapon much faster than with smiting/vorpal/disruption. It always cracks me up to see elite pop LFMs up that require fighters to have these. Vorpal is still very helpful for the vampire outside that there are days when the Inevitable saves so much that construct slaying is pointless, but a greater construct bane takes him down quickly.

[shoebox747]

With all this damange trying to even out why dont they start making a rangers manyshot permanent or something like that to where using arrows in not worthless anymore

[PurdueDave]

As an "elite" players.. In the most elite quests, these tactics fail and pure physical damage certainly matters.. It reigns supreme.

Truely elite melee players have no need for any special weapons. To kill as slow as vorpal or disruption weapon does makes you weak, average and anything but elite.

Tho its true for the sorcerer, death spells are the only way to go in high lvl quests. But when doing mid lvl quests such as older raids like VoN and Titan damage spells do far outshine PK and FoD.
And come mod5, damage spells will once again be the way to go in nearly all quests as max + empower will be very cost effective and aoe dmg will rule.

Will the future hold more quests like the Tor where mobs are imune to death effects? Id say theres a good chance.

I agree. Immunity characteristics becomes very common in high-level play.

It's hard to generalize in DDO because playstyles tend to shift based on the latest mod. Right now in GH (hard hitting fleshy brutes) it seems that the trend is high damage with crits is the way to go. In mod 5 necro 3 it might look like high AC is the way to go.

[llevenbaxx]

When I play my melees, I dont get mad at all when I see a necro sorcy(or w/e) rain death down on """OUR""" enemies, or when I'm in a group with 2-4 other casters having a insta-death contest. I simply change to a support fighter, one or more are going to get by them eventually, thats where I come in. Use trip, stun or just plain ol power attack to clean up in isle four.

Use your team to the fullest in all circumstances I always say, there will be adventures and circumstances where you will shine and ones where you have to take a backseat. Its a team game where everyone should be able to have fun.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My +2 Holy Adamantine Longsword of Pure Good and My +1 Holy Longbow of Pure Good are still my best all around weapons.
My Vorpal is mostly for those self healing baddies out there, that i can't get below 1/4 hit points........or maybe a vampire.

Paralyser is great, but it doesn't do much damage.....I usualy use it when I am outnumbered.......keeps me alive not getting hit so much.

Don't own any others.....Actually I did just get a lowpowered smiter........but Usually prefer to just DPS constructs.

Disruption would be nice...........and usually is, but in some cases it takes longer trying to get them to fail then it does to just beat them up (observed from others)

And as many others point out, saves just get better with more HD.
But I'm also hopeing that we will get some nice high powered weapons as well.

[Clerical]

I enjoy the power 5 but i have to say i still pull out the old carnifex now and then for just pure crit damage, thank god for bloodstones.

[Casta]

A vorpal averages 20 swings for every mob you kill, my barb normally takes about 5 swings.

[youbei]

A vorpal averages 20 swings for every mob you kill, my barb normally takes about 5 swings.

till you get lucky and get 5 kills in 5 swings :o

my dream weapon is still a +5 holy burst scimitar of pure good.... rr dorf of course :D

either way... the extra 2d6 or 1d6 add up over time... but i find i kill almost as fast with my vorpal dorf axe than with my dmg weapons, im a fighter btw, just because of crits... and like others have said 90% of elite maps u got at least 1 stoner mage and then a +1 burst of pg is good enough :P

[Raithe]

... and like others have said 90% of elite maps u got at least 1 stoner mage and then a +1 burst of pg is good enough :P

Uhhh... for all those who are not yet aware, bringing down a stone'd or held mob is best done with a pick (x4 crit) of puncturing.

Was in a run of the Tor with 2 mages, a cleric, a rogue dual wielding puncturing weapons, a paladin, and my bard wielding his usual +2 crippling byeshk shortsword of puncturing (his main weapon).

The paladin hardly got a kill (and, unfortunately, he let everyone know it).