Can you delay the mail changes until you implement Guild Banks?

[Devorpa]

Weekly Development Activities

In QA

These items are in QA and are scheduled for Module 5: Accursed Ascension (Litany of the Dead Parts 3 & 4).

General

NEW - There have been changes to the lifetimes of mail. Unopened mail will now remain for 21 days and opened mail will remain for 5 days. Only mail received or opened after the update will follow these new rules.



You announced earlier in the 2007 that you would implement Guild Banks (and Guild housing) in the northern autumn (fall), which is rapidly approaching.

In this week’s weekly development activity, you announced that in Mod 5 you are reducing the mail storage times from 28 days down to 21 days …..

I am one of many people who currently provide the Guild Bank service for their Guild and continually juggle their Guild’s bank items across their available bank mules – would it be possible to delay the change to the postal storage until you implement Guild Banks?

Storing 150 – 250 items for a medium sized Guild is taxing at the best of times and using the four weeks in the mail system is very helpful. While the extra seven days does not seem like a lot, it is when you are juggling that number of items on hand …

Also, since Mod 5 has been delayed … I was wondering if the Guild Banks (and housing) are still on track for Autumn?

[Impaqt]

What you are doing is exactly WHY they are changing it now. The mail system is not designed to be a bank. Cut down your items to essentials and call it a day. I cant think of 250 item I'd need to store for the "Guild" if I had to.... many item people donate to "the Guild" are pretty useless I've seen.

If you truely have that much stuff to store, buy a second account for the 400 Storage Slots

[Endrik]

I'm afraid I disagree, Impaqt.

I'm not willing to make the leap of faith that the reason Turbine is changing the mail mechanic is to prevent circulation of items for storage, though I will acknowledge the possibility that your source of information may be better than mine.

I for one, disagree that this is an abuse of the mail mechanic. After all, there is always a cost associated with sending a mail, and there's no way around that. It's hardly an exploit. The way that I see this is that it's tantamount to the Post Office only being willing to hold your mail for three weeks instead of four. You're paying for the service. Why should you not expect the same result for the same money?

If the Stormreach Mail System cries "inflation" I'm afraid I'll have to throw the minotaur poo flag.

With regard to Devorpa's request that this change be delayed until the promise of guild housing (and banks) is realized, I concur wholeheartedly. Not only is it another way to enrich the gaming experience for those of us who desire a bit more of the PnP element to come through, it also adds a way for Turbine to allow the players themselves a much needed mechanism for affecting the game directly.

[JosephKell]

What you are doing is exactly WHY they are changing it now. The mail system is not designed to be a bank. Cut down your items to essentials and call it a day. I cant think of 250 item I'd need to store for the "Guild" if I had to.... many item people donate to "the Guild" are pretty useless I've seen.

If you truely have that much stuff to store, buy a second account for the 400 Storage SlotsVery true.

To me a guild bank should be more like a train station than the terminal where the trains are stored when not in use. Items a player would use if they didn't already have similar items. And items should never STAY in the bank. Items come in, someone can use it, the item goes out. If an item is in the bank for a long time it must not be desirable.

If a Guild Bank is used properly, it isn't necessary.

[Devorpa]

Very true.

To me a guild bank should be more like a train station than the terminal where the trains are stored when not in use. Items a player would use if they didn't already have similar items. And items should never STAY in the bank. Items come in, someone can use it, the item goes out. If an item is in the bank for a long time it must not be desirable.

If a Guild Bank is used properly, it isn't necessary.

Items usually stay in our Guild's bank for 4 weeks - there is very high turn over and a lot of it gets distributed to the 350 characters in the Guild at all levels. It is not just for uber tweaking - its for characters at all 14 levels ...

I don't decide for others what is good and what is not .... I am frequently surprised by what people ask for to help their unique builds.

[Impaqt]

Developers have stated in many threads, posted by people who had items deleted by the timer, that the Mail system is not intended to be a storage locker.

[Uska]

You shouldnt be using the mail as extra bank space lots of people doing that is proably one of the main reasons for the change.

[Uska]

I'm afraid I disagree, Impaqt.

I'm not willing to make the leap of faith that the reason Turbine is changing the mail mechanic is to prevent circulation of items for storage, though I will acknowledge the possibility that your source of information may be better than mine.

I for one, disagree that this is an abuse of the mail mechanic. After all, there is always a cost associated with sending a mail, and there's no way around that. It's hardly an exploit. The way that I see this is that it's tantamount to the Post Office only being willing to hold your mail for three weeks instead of four. You're paying for the service. Why should you not expect the same result for the same money?

If the Stormreach Mail System cries "inflation" I'm afraid I'll have to throw the minotaur poo flag.

With regard to Devorpa's request that this change be delayed until the promise of guild housing (and banks) is realized, I concur wholeheartedly. Not only is it another way to enrich the gaming experience for those of us who desire a bit more of the PnP element to come through, it also adds a way for Turbine to allow the players themselves a much needed mechanism for affecting the game directly.



It has been stated many times the mail isnt bank space...lose an item due to leaving in the mailbox to long well to bad.

[darkgolem]

I agree that the mail shouldn't be used for a bank, and as the guild banker for my guild, it isn't.. but the OP is quite correct.. even a medium sized guild has many many items in it's bank mules. SO %#@#$ /SIGNED please bring on guild amenities soon.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

You announced earlier in the 2007 that you would implement Guild Banks (and Guild housing) in the northern autumn (fall), which is rapidly approaching.

I recall them promissing guild housing...and I recall players saying that should include a guild bank...but I can't recall turbine ever saying that guild banking was comming...

[Ziggy]

Only mail received or opened after the update will follow these new rules.

Just have everyone send stuff to you BEFORE MOD 5 is realeased.:cool:

[Uska]

I recall them promissing guild housing...and I recall players saying that should include a guild bank...but I can't recall turbine ever saying that guild banking was comming...

Yeah samething in my mind I hear guild bank and I am thinking just a npc in your guild house like we have now not a shared guild bank never read where that was going to happen I think people may just be assuming this.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

You announced earlier in the 2007 that you would implement Guild Banks (and Guild housing) in the northern autumn (fall), which is rapidly approaching.

In this week’s weekly development activity, you announced that in Mod 5 you are reducing the mail storage times from 28 days down to 21 days …..

I am one of many people who currently provide the Guild Bank service for their Guild and continually juggle their Guild’s bank items across their available bank mules – would it be possible to delay the change to the postal storage until you implement Guild Banks?

Storing 150 – 250 items for a medium sized Guild is taxing at the best of times and using the four weeks in the mail system is very helpful. While the extra seven days does not seem like a lot, it is when you are juggling that number of items on hand …

Also, since Mod 5 has been delayed … I was wondering if the Guild Banks (and housing) are still on track for Autumn?


Thanks for making things worse for the rest of us. Yes this is exactly why the time is being cut down. The mail system is being bogged down with people abusing it for storage.

It never ceases to amaze me the people will rationalize themselves out of realizing that they are exploiting the system in an unnintended maner.

Mail is not a bank!

[Vinos]

Items usually stay in our Guild's bank for 4 weeks - there is very high turn over and a lot of it gets distributed to the 350 characters in the Guild at all levels. It is not just for uber tweaking - its for characters at all 14 levels ...

I don't decide for others what is good and what is not .... I am frequently surprised by what people ask for to help their unique builds.

350 members and no one has a mule or 2?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

it gets distributed to the 350 characters in the Guild at all levels.


Ok, everyone chip in 50cents so we can buy a full mule account for the year :D

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

lesse. get all four backpack slots, thats 100 there.... manage to get all the bank slots, a lot more, turn him into a mule and you can carry 200 items alone with him.... if thats not enough, then you getting way too much mail.

[Laith]

ya know, unopened items still stay in there for 21 days, then get bounced back for 21 more.

now where oh where could you put information so you didn't have to open it? the subject possibly?

let's see does "belt mod fort lvl7 drow" give you enough idea what's there so you don't have to open it? :cool:

edit: opening the mail has always been something to avoid... seeing as the chance to lose the item and all.

that being said: Mail is NOT a Bank! rawr!

[dragnmoon]

I am going to have to Defend Devorpa here.

He is one Person holding Items for a Whole Guild.... Not just himself..

I totally Agree that the Mail system is not made to be used as a Bank for yourself.. but this is not for him.. this is for the WHOLE Guild of 80 + members.

All members donate to him (and only him to simplify the accounting) items for the guild to chose from. He just does not have enough mules to be able to hold it all so he has been forced to use his Mail system.

The point here is not a problem with the mail system but the lack of anything guild related in the game, which makes it very difficult to have a Guild Bank.

The idea of him taking stuff and deciding on his own that it will not be needed by others is not up to him but others. Like he said he has been surpirsed on what people need. So he waits 4 weeks then sells it and adds it to the guild funds.

Well over those 4 weeks the items sometimes build up a bit (Some weeks are less then others) After a Loot weekend he gets hit really hard and has no space left on any of his mules and well has no choice but to use the Mail system.

I understand they are going to be adding more Guild related stuff in the future, what he is asking id delaying the mail change so it does not effect how our (And others I am sure) Guild banks are set up. Though I doubt they will delay it and I do not fault them if they do not.

I am sure we will be forced to change the way our Guild bank works, Maybe hold items for a shorter period before we sell them

And yes by the way in the State of the Game address they mention Guild banks.

This is what they said

Guild Housing – Another often requested feature, Guild Housing is something we are working on for late this year or early next year. Housing will provide Guilds with a home base in the city, where they can display their accolades and possibly purchase conveniences for Guild members like a Tavern keep or a Guild Bank Manager.

Here is the Link (http://www.ddo.com/article/845)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

And yes by the way in the State of the Game address they mention Guild banks.

This is what they said

Guild Housing – Another often requested feature, Guild Housing is something we are working on for late this year or early next year. Housing will provide Guilds with a home base in the city, where they can display their accolades and possibly purchase conveniences for Guild members like a Tavern keep or a Guild Bank Manager.


Yup, that's exactly as I recall it.... Note it doesn't say you get any guild bank account, or guild storage, it says you MAY get a bank manager.

To me a manger is the guy who stands there in your guild hall and gives you access to the stuff in the bank, just like the guy that stands in GH or the Harbormaster's place.

Could be I'm misreading the quote...or it could be lots of people are reading into it what they want to see. But a manager is a person, not a storage location...


Edit: That's not to say I'd be opposed to guild storage... I think that would be great. Particularily if it could be restricted so that items can be depositted for removal by any member or only by officers. Even better if you could set it to either "loan" (with tracking) or "give" items from the bank.

[Vinos]

I am going to have to Defend Devorpa here.

He is one Person holding Items for a Whole Guild.... Not just himself..

I totally Agree that the Mail system is not made to be used as a Bank for yourself.. but this is not for him.. this is for the WHOLE Guild of 80 + members.

All members donate to him (and only him to simplify the accounting) items for the guild to chose from. He just does not have enough mules to be able to hold it all so he has been forced to use his Mail system.

The point here is not a problem with the mail system but the lack of anything guild related in the game, which makes it very difficult to have a Guild Bank.

The idea of him taking stuff and deciding on his own that it will not be needed by others is not up to him but others. Like he said he has been surpirsed on what people need. So he waits 4 weeks then sells it and adds it to the guild funds.

Well over those 4 weeks the items sometimes build up a bit (Some weeks are less then others) After a Loot weekend he gets hit really hard and has no space left on any of his mules and well has no choice but to use the Mail system.

I understand they are going to be adding more Guild related stuff in the future, what he is asking id delaying the mail change so it does not effect how our (And others I am sure) Guild banks are set up. Though I doubt they will delay it and I do not fault them if they do not.

I am sure we will be forced to change the way our Guild bank works, Maybe hold items for a shorter period before we sell them

And yes by the way in the State of the Game address they mention Guild banks.

This is what they said

Guild Housing – Another often requested feature, Guild Housing is something we are working on for late this year or early next year. Housing will provide Guilds with a home base in the city, where they can display their accolades and possibly purchase conveniences for Guild members like a Tavern keep or a Guild Bank Manager.

Here is the Link (http://www.ddo.com/article/845)

Ok 2 things. It would seem he needs help holding items. one person cannot be expected to hold all the items for 350+ member guild. Doesn't he have his own items to hold also? And point 2 it doesn't specfically say that guilds would get a seperate bank. Just that they might get a bank manager(house K rep) For all we know it might be just like the banker on GH.

[Impaqt]

You'd think a Guild with 80+ members might have a second trustworth person that could help out with a storage mule.. as for the "SImplying the accounting" thing, it would be VERY easy to split up... One officer doesn Weapons and Armor, the other does the rest...... If someone mails an item to the wrong person, its a simple matter of resending it to the correct holder....

The Mail system is Burded enough without it having to keep track of items that should be in someones inventory or bank slots.

[dragnmoon]

Ok 2 things. It would seem he needs help holding items. one person cannot be expected to hold all the items for 350+ member guild. Doesn't he have his own items to hold also? And point 2 it doesn't specfically say that guilds would get a seperate bank. Just that they might get a bank manager(house K rep) For all we know it might be just like the banker on GH.

Whoa.. :D:p though 350+ guild would be Cool... umm I said 80+.. no way i would expect a 350+ guild bank to be done by 1 person...:D:p

And I think both you and Loiren are under assuming (Assuming the worse) when the say guild bank manager. ummm I think it can only be a GUILD storage Account for items open to all guild members... If they said a Bank manager in the guild house... then I would think it would be just a NPC to link to your bank... Most of the time (Not always) they are careful how they word things.

But yes... There is a Maybe implied in the State of the game address.

[Vinos]

Whoa.. :D:p though 350+ guild would be Cool... umm I said 80+.. no way i would expect a 350+ guild bank to be done by 1 person...:D:p

And I think both you and Loiren are under assuming (Assuming the worse) when the say guild bank manager. ummm I think it can only be a GUILD storage Account for items open to all guild members... If they said a Bank manager in the guild house... then I would think it would be just a NPC to link to your bank... Most of the time (Not always) they are careful how they word things.

But yes... There is a Maybe implied in the State of the game address.

Sorry got you mixed up with another poster who said he has a guild with 350 characters in it.

[dragnmoon]

LOL... every time you guys say the Mail system is Burdened enough.. you make me laugh...

I imagine a Bunch of Dwarfs complaining about all the mail being put ito the system with all this stuff screaming at thier bosses for all the work they are doing...

I truly Doubt the Game will crash because everyones mail is full with items (As is set now with it deleting mail in 4 weeks)... Or the Dwarfs will Strike!!! :D:p

And No it is not easier for 2 people to do the guild bank
... it is easier for 1 person to do it.. It is hard enough as is to get news out to everyone (Even with the guild message of the day) But to get to everyone that to send this stuff to one person and this stuff to another is harder then just having Devorpa doing it all.

But like I said... Most likely we will be forced to make a change.

[dragnmoon]

Sorry got you mixed up with another poster who said he has a guild with 350 characters in it.

No worries Vinos :D

Edit: Though there is a Difference between 350+ Characters and 350+ Players.... We have the first but not the last.

[muffinlad]

When I read it, I too assumed it was just a link to your House K accounts. If it was more, they would have said "A guild bank account". Needless to say, I think the addition of a treasurer, and a guild bank would be an excellent idea.

Regs,

muffinguilder

[Yen_Lo_Wang]

But in esence they did say guild bank, they did not state a house k representative in ur guild but a GUILD bank manager, but to digress as many of u seem to be doing, Devorpa asked to delay the update changes to mail precisely for a reason. Changes are brought about by the customers input as well as the developers and by posting on the forumn he has put forth his opinion on a change that he belives should put in effect *his opinion*.
For those who keep complaining that he shouldn't use mail for banking, get a clue try it urself, it is a full time job that he has taken on and is best done by one person. And in no way violates abuses or causes problems for the mail services in all likelyhood it is that they underestimated their capabilites when they merged three servers into one and it just needs to be trimmed.
It is not storage on some server somewhere that delays the speed it is amount of people acessing that data at one time ie when everyone is bouncing back and forth between ah and post.
With no guild services DDO's developers and owners can hardly make complaints if people institute their own services for what is a problem for guilds of most large sizes.
IF you want to chase ur tail and run in circles you can allways make ur own post to do just that, but i seem to see a question that wants a developers answer/viewing or a solid response other that "i know you are but what am i".

[dragnmoon]

Yen... Paragraphs Man... Paragraphs!!! :D:p:rolleyes:;)

You always make my head explode when I read your posts... here or there.. :p