What I think would be fun, more passive things.

[rikori2]

I notice a lot of things in this game that go unused. Many people rarely use intimidate, tumble and diplomacy (maybe bluff as well.) Also, the feats like slicing blow could go in this category. So, I think it'd be interesting to add more passive(ness) to these abilities. For example,
Intimidate - while intimidate is toggled (as opposed to clicked), you generate +1% more aggro per skill point
Diplomacy - while diplomacy is toggled, you generate -1% less aggro per skill point.
Tumble - for each skill point of tumble, you gain +.1% miss chance. This stacks with other miss chances. The feat mobility gives you +2% miss chance.
Bluff - each of your attacks has a .25% chance per skill point of causing the enemy to be vulnerable to sneak attacks for a short period of time. Feint increases this by 5%
Slicing blow - each of your attacks has a 10% chance of wounding the enemy, dealing -1 to -2 con damage.

I think this would place more emphasis on some lesser used or previously ignored abilities. It also opens up the doors for the devs to add more stuff to customize your character with in the game.

[Uska]

If you want the effect use it we dont need to make the game any easier than it is already.(in other words hit the activate button) it is an effect that you must decide when and where to use it shouldnt be an automatic thing they something close to you want through enhancements leave the feats alone.

[mgoldb2]

Your tumble and slicing blow idea I find too overpowered but the other ones could work even throe I don’t see the need for it too be added.

[Ziggy]

please use bluff and Improved Feint alone. I use it quiet often and dont need additional extra things to happen that i have no control over.

[Gennerik]

If you want the effect use it we dont need to make the game any easier than it is already.(in other words hit the activate button) it is an effect that you must decide when and where to use it shouldnt be an automatic thing they something close to you want through enhancements leave the feats alone.

Don't Diplomacy a monster while it's on the initial charge up to a character (before anyone actually establishes aggro). For some odd reason, if you do, they will turn to attack you. Therefore, I have decided that that is when you do not use the skill.

I guess it's because nobody actually has hate, so you essentially set yourself at a low level of hate meaning you're the likely target instead of less likely.

[tihocan]

Just a remark: I often use intimidate and diplomacy. The fact that few people use them does not mean they aren't useful.

[MathGeek]

Just a remark: I often use intimidate and diplomacy. The fact that few people use them does not mean they aren't useful.

I also get a lot of use out of intimidate and diplomacy.

[Tavok]

I like the ideas. But the Slicing Blow idea might be a bit to overpowered. Maybe 4%? Then another feat (improved slicing blow?) to increase to 8%?

[Arnya]

When I'm running Crankey my intimitank, I use intimidate then sunder then trip. Ten seconds later I repeat.

Never, in combat, do I not have a timer counting down :)

This is the way he's built and I don't want to relegate another toon to the mule heap like my ftr/rog when he lost human vers.

[rikori2]

Well, one of my observations with this game is that people are putting points into things that don't really apply to them. Wizards with Disable Device, everyone with UMD, and things like that. I think in the interest of balance, these ideas would be good. As for the exact numbers, I am not sure what would be good. I based them off of the idea that people can get +50 skill checks atm, and that number is going up. So...
+5% miss chance with 50 tumble
12.5% chance to inflict a sneak attack opportunity with 50 bluff
-50%/+50% hate with diplomacy and intimidate (I really don't know what good values for hate would be...)

This would make taking pure rogue actually an interesting option, as well as making those +15 diplomacy items worth equipping, even over a +6 wisdom item...

Also, battles seem to happen so fast in this game, that's why I feel passive abilities would be nice. I feel like taking the time to do a diplomacy check is less effective then trying to kill it before it kills me.

[Dingo123]

Well, one of my observations with this game is that people are putting points into things that don't really apply to them. Wizards with Disable Device, everyone with UMD, and things like that. I think in the interest of balance, these ideas would be good. As for the exact numbers, I am not sure what would be good. I based them off of the idea that people can get +50 skill checks atm, and that number is going up. So...
+5% miss chance with 50 tumble
12.5% chance to inflict a sneak attack opportunity with 50 bluff
-50%/+50% hate with diplomacy and intimidate (I really don't know what good values for hate would be...)

This would make taking pure rogue actually an interesting option, as well as making those +15 diplomacy items worth equipping, even over a +6 wisdom item...

Also, battles seem to happen so fast in this game, that's why I feel passive abilities would be nice. I feel like taking the time to do a diplomacy check is less effective then trying to kill it before it kills me.



Why not combine the two?

Why not have diplomacy as a power attack like effect (and during which it reduces your aggro by a set amount), and then also have it a clicky for oh noez moments?

In essence you'd have two Diplo Skills, Diplomacy (Active) and Diplomacy (Passive). Diplomacy (Passive) would be the power attack like skill that would provide a continual aggro reduction, Diplomacy (Active) would work like the diplo skill currently does.

Bluff would work the same way, so could intimidate.

It would make peoples lives a lot easier in many respects.

Apply this to other things, such as slicing thingamajigger. You get the feat and that grants a percentile chance to do a slicing blow (Passive) and Slicing blow (active) or whatever.

[Borror0]

Why not combine the two?

Why not have diplomacy as a power attack like effect (and during which it reduces your aggro by a set amount), and then also have it a clicky for oh noez moments?

In essence you'd have two Diplo Skills, Diplomacy (Active) and Diplomacy (Passive). Diplomacy (Passive) would be the power attack like skill that would provide a continual aggro reduction, Diplomacy (Active) would work like the diplo skill currently does.

If they changed it, it has to be like this. Changing it from Active to Passive would be a pain to Intimitank. I'll need much more than +50% to Intimitank, and tanking under the cap would be a really bad idea. I currently like the fact that Intimidate is useful what ever your level is. The real change I'd like would be to demoralise the opponents like in PnP.

[Harbinder]

Tip #52: Tired of losing hit points from falls? Increase your Tumble skill.

[Capstern]

I would like bluff to work more like intimidate does now and be instant and not a long drawn out thing that I get beat over

[SneakThief]

I dont know about initmidate/diplomacy/bluff being completely passive ...
1) that might be over powered to an extent
2) There are times you WANT hate, just to get it off the cleric :D

I could go for something that toggled on/off but broke when you performed certain actions (similar to CE) like casting. Annoying I know, but your not exactly being diplomatic while casting are you? :D

[MathGeek]

Well, one of my observations with this game is that people are putting points into things that don't really apply to them. Wizards with Disable Device, everyone with UMD, and things like that. I think in the interest of balance, these ideas would be good.


What do you mean by "things that don't really apply to them"? Do you mean cross-class skills? Is it inappropriate for a Warforged Paladin to put ranks into Repair so that he gains back more HP at a shrine? Is it inappropriate for my Wizard to put points into Haggle? Or do you mean "don't apply to them" in the sense of a pure Fighter putting ranks into Concentration?

And what do you mean by "in the interest of balance"? Is it unbalanced for a Paladin to have UMD? Do you mean that he should be disinclined to put ranks into that skill because the game makes other skill choices more appealing (I suspect that this is what you actually mean)?



This would make taking pure rogue actually an interesting option, as well as making those +15 diplomacy items worth equipping, even over a +6 wisdom item...


My fighter has some attractive helmet options, but he almost always chooses to wear a +11 Intimidate helm (if someone on Argo has a better one that they would like to sell, let me know :D )

As to making "pure rogue" an interesting option, Rogues aren't just about skills. Rangers and Wizards (the latter due to high intelligence) tend to have a healthy number of skill points. One of the most important aspects of a Rogue is (at least in terms of game mechanics) burst damage. Other classes get skills, and Rogue/Rangers and Rogue/Wizards are generally adequate at finding and disabling traps, but nobody else gets a die of sneak attack damage at every odd level. I suspect that my comments on the role of a Rogue will sidetrack this discussion. Note that I'm only talking about the game mechanics, not about the thematic aspects of the Rogue in genre. Also note that since cross-class skills are expensive , the pure Rogue is much more versatile (it costs him half the skill points to make out his Disable Device, for example.)