Guide pt III - Nuker

[Aspenor]

Aspenor's Guide to Rolling and Building a Sorceror pt III

First of all, you have to know what you want from your sorceror. Do you want to be a crowd control master? Do you want to be an instant-death killing machine? Or maybe you prefer direct damage/nuking....All of these are viable options. Each type will have different feats, spells, and different enhancement focus.

Firstly, lets start with stats. DDO has peculiar rules regarding caster classes, which differ greatly from PnP. Firstly, and most notably, IMHO at end-game the only stats that matter are your primary casting stat (Charisma, in the case of sorcerors), and your constitution score (governs your hit points). Keep in mind that sorcerors only get 2 skill points + INT modifier per level. Concentration is of utmost importance, because you want your spells to go off when you cast them, you don't want some monster hitting you to stop it. UMD is a common favorite, and a high level sorceror can use raise dead scrolls if he/she is properly equipped. Maxxing both these skills will take ALL your base skill points.

It is thus my recommendation to start all sorcerors with enough intelligence to gain 3 skill points per level. My three skills I chose were concentration, UMD, and jump. Jump is for evasive maneuvering, and is incredibly useful for avoiding damage. YOU WILL NOT want to stand still when mobs attack you.
PS RE: SKILLS--You may choose to take diplomacy instead of jump. Diplomacy ROCKS for a sorceror, and I will get around to explaining that later.

My recommended Starting stats, drow sorceror
STR-8
DEX-10
CON-14
INT-12
WIS-8
CHA-20

Skill points spent AT EVERY LEVEL in UMD, concentration and DIPLOMACY.

NUKERS WANT TO HAVE DIPLOMACY SKILLS.

Feats (in Order): (Drow)
Maximize
Mental Toughness
Heighten
Empower
Improved Mental Toughness

Feats (in Order): (Human)
Maximize
Mental Toughness
Heighten
Improved Mental Toughness
Empower
Spell Penetration


These spell choices are for the nuker. You are not a team-oriented spell caster, per se. You often refuse to buff, and will prefer to save your SP for killing things. You like to slice through quests quickly like a hot knife through butter. This character is highly specialized in running top speed through a quest, charming, using diplomacy, and then killing whom he needs to.

After all my rants on Mental Toughness, some may wonder why it's in this build. This build is focused on DPS, maximized spells, and spammed instant kills and charms. He wants SP. His specialty comes in his spell selection, as he should have the necessary damage spells for ANY situation. His enhancements are also where his niche comes into play.

Spell choices: 1st level
Charm Person, Niacs
At first level you will want to be able to short-man quests, and you will want to be able to take control of the baddies to fight for you. Charm Person works on kobolds and hobgoblins, the common enemies in the early game. Niacs is for damage output. It is the highest damage spell for first level available, and it works well on early mobs, especially casters. A sorceror should remember melee mobs have low will, and caster mobs have low dex, so charm the fighting types
and kill the caster types.

Spell Choice: 2nd level
Hypnotism
Will save spell, useful for making groups of mobs stand still. A sorceror can spam cast 2-3 hypnotisms and render entire crowds immobile. I recommend taking this at 2nd level to help control crowds.
Alternative: Burning hands
Burning hands is a good low level damage spell for groups of monsters, and taking burning hands at second level also allows the sorceror to be more effective against undead, since ice does not work on skeletons.

Spell Choice: 3rd Level
Burning Hands
See above, alternative spell is hypnotism.

Spell Choice: 4th level
Scorching Ray
Scorching Ray is a no-save ray damage spell. You gain more rays as you increase in level. Major damage potential.

Spell Choice: 5th Level
Resist Energy:
You love your buffs. You like DR. You will attract alot of attention with big booming blasts. You want energy resistance.

Spell Chice: 6th Level
Haste
Everybody loves haste. You know you can't live without it. At low levels there is nothing like hasting a fighter. As a nuker, you prefer to move faster to avoid mobs.

Now's when it gets hairy. Around 6th level, you no longer need some early spells, and you are in need of different spells for the quests you are in.
For example, Stormcleave is a common 6-8 experience quest, and the giant at the end canot be harmed by Niac's. However, crowd control is necessary for this quest, and it would be awful tough to give up one of your CC spells. At 6th level I recommend dropping burning hands for magic missle, simply for use in killing the giant. If you feel you can count
on your fighters to do this, this change may not be necessary.
Spell Swap- Burning Hands for Magic Missile

Spell Choice: 7th Level
2nd Level - Blur
3rd Level - Fireball
Blur will be your first defensive buff. KEEP YOURSELF BLURRED. You have no AC. Damage avoidance is your only way to survive. Fireball replaces burning hands as your AoE killer.

Recommended spell swap at 7th level:
Niac's for Jump
Niacs is no longer your primary killing spell. Fireball is a reflex save, and performs just as well as Niacs. Jump is necessary for evasive maneuvering.
Jump is a must-have for a 14th level caster.

Spell Choice: 8th level
Phantasmal Killer - instant kills = DPS, use these spells mixed with direct damage for high damage output.

Spell Choices: 9th level
W))T!! We get 3 spells this level!
2nd Level - Control Undead
3rd Level - Displacement
4th Level - Wall of Fire
Displacement is a MUST HAVE for a sorceror. 50% miss chance will save your tail ALOT. Use this spell, and use it often when you get aggro.
Control Undead is simply used for diverting attention off of YOU while in undead quests. It is a situational spell, but will be very useful in many quests.
Wall of Fire - Staple damage spell. Learn to love it. You'll be jumping around in it like a jackrabbit on crack.

Spell Choices: 10th level
5th level - Cone of Cold
Cone of Cold is the best damage spell right now. AoE like burning hands, crits up to 2000 on cold monsters or 1000 on normal monsters.

Recommended spell swap:
Hypnotism for Nightshield
More mobs cast magic missles and force missiles at high levels, including the Stormreaver. Magic missles are unavoidable damage, and this simple spell lasts for 1min/level, and absorbs all missile effects. It also gives resistance bonus to saves.

Spell Choices: 11th Level
3rd Level - Protection from energy
4th Level - Stoneskin
5th Level - Break Enchantment OR Ball Lightning OR Charm Monster
I R SQUISSHEEEE
Displacement and stoneskin is the BEST armor class in the game. Use it, love it. Live it.
Protection from energy may seem like it is unnecessary, but you won't think so when you get hit with 100 damage lightning and 180 damage polar rays. Damage mitigation is your friend.
Ball lightning is useful for mobs with fire and cold buffs/immunity, and can actually hit mobs with damage through walls and doors.
Break Enchantment is useful for dispelling mob spells such as blade barrier, walls of fire, etc. Be careful, it dispells YOUR walls of fire, too. Charm monster works for charming non-people non-undead. It will last a pretty long time unless the mob makes their save.

Spell choices: 12th level
6th Level - Disintegrate
Fortitude save ray spell. Nasty damage. Undead and golem killer. Also highly useful for damaging boss monsters with the mantle of invulnerability.

Spell Choices: 13th Level
4th Level-Enervation
5th level-Dominate Person
6th Level-Greater Heroism *OR* Flesh to Stone
Enervation is your debuff spell. Hit tough mobs with an enervation (it has no save) and then PK to your heart's content.
Dominate Person is your new charm person. Many HIGH level mobs are PEOPLE, including Gnolls, Dwarfs, Elves, Humans, and Goblins. GH- if you don't want to be casting GH from scrolls. Plus, you can extend the buff from your mana.
Flesh to Stone - Great all purpose insta-crit spell for all fleshy mobs, undead included.

Possible Spell Swap, depending on preference
You may wish to keep web, but I find myself with no shortage of spells to throw with this build. I swap web for false life, free temp. hit points from mana. I currently have resist energy, scorching ray, command undead, and blur as second level spells, since I decided to hand out a few blurs now and then...

Spell Choice: 14th Level
7th - Finger of Death
Instakill DPS, FTW. Single fortitude save or death.

Enhancements
-------------------
Energy of the Dragonblooded IV
Sorceror's Charisma III
Elemental Manipulation IV
Lineage of Elements III
Lineage of Deadly Elements III
Force Manipulation I
Lineage of Force I
Sorceror's Concentration III
Improved Heighten I
Spell Penetration I

================================================== ================================
Mod 6 Changes
----------------------------
Took Force of Personality as a feat at level 15.
Swapped Mental Toughness for Spell Penetration
Swapped Spell Focus: Necromancy for Greater Spell Penetration
Dropped the highest level of spell points enhancement, fully specced into spell penetration at 16.4
Level up point spent in Charisma
Spells taken: 15
Level 5: Mind Fog
Level 6: Greater Heroism
Level 7: Banishment
Spells Taken: 16
Otto's Irresistable Dance (or Trap the Soul? if this is your only arcane)

Spells swapped:
PK -> Enervation
Charm Monster -> Dimension Door
Flesh to Stone -> Mass Suggestion

[Aspenor]

If you play this build, you are gonna love the charm/firewall/diplomacy combo. Charm one or two mobs, drop a firewall on the rest, and while they chase you through it use your diplomacy to track them onto your charms. Drop a fireball. BOOM. Encounter over.

[Varis]

well done with feats and spell selection.

it may be worth it to throw in the possebility to combine an armored sorc build with a nuker.

A pure nuker get a LOT of attention from mobs and even a 40ish AC will go a long way combined with displacement. Obviously I will have 14 less hp's then the 14 con build but the higher dex will help vs the many traps, nukes and stuff like trip. With a 40ish AC it also makes more sense to block inside a firewall.

(with an armored sorc I mean 8 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 10 int, 8 wis, 20 cha in a mithral chain shirt)


Also, I would like to see your suggestions on enhancements.

[jkm]

this is basically my build with some differences in the spell selection. one note is that its better to assume a +1 tome for con

so 13 con, 13 int, 9 wis to get one extra skill point

[Aspenor]

Since blocking DR stacks, you can also skip the AC and pick up the Madstone Shield, drop a maximized firewall and shield block.

I still find AC to be too much expenditure on item slots for the benefit for a sorceror. Investing in mithral chain shirt, nice protection items, chaosguard, BS pots (or NA ring), dexterity, etc. just takes too much out of the HP potential, and added effect potential (like fearsome, or heavy fortification, or GFL).

It's personal preference in that respect, though. Some people don't mind making the investment.

[jkm]

well done with feats and spell selection.

it may be worth it to throw in the possebility to combine an armored sorc build with a nuker.

A pure nuker get a LOT of attention from mobs and even a 40ish AC will go a long way combined with displacement. Obviously I will have 14 less hp's then the 14 con build but the higher dex will help vs the many traps, nukes and stuff like trip. With a 40ish AC it also makes more sense to block inside a firewall.

(with an armored sorc I mean 8 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 10 int, 8 wis, 20 cha in a mithral chain shirt)


Also, I would like to see your suggestions on enhancements.

this would mean shield instead of nightshield and using fluidity enhancements, correct?

[Aspenor]

this is basically my build with some differences in the spell selection. one note is that its better to assume a +1 tome for con

so 13 con, 13 int, 9 wis to get one extra skill point

That assumes you've got a +6 item lying around to tack Con to 20 (on an elf, of course), or that you can get a +2 con tome at some time and wear a +5.

If you assume 14 base con, +1 tome and a +5 item (which are fairly readily available, comparatively) then you've got 20 con, with a +2 tome and +6 item 22.

[Aspenor]

Also, I would like to see your suggestions on enhancements.
Enhancements will be posted. I need to get around to finding that enhancement builder and bookmark it on this computer.

[jkm]

That assumes you've got a +6 item lying around to tack Con to 20 (on an elf, of course), or that you can get a +2 con tome at some time and wear a +5.

If you assume 14 base con, +1 tome and a +5 item (which are fairly readily available, comparatively) then you've got 20 con, with a +2 tome and +6 item 22.

well the max tome allowed is +5 so being odd to start isn't the end of the world.

also, sorcs tend to pull lots of tomes and sometimes in crazy bunches. they also tend to pull cha and con items though getting them in the right spot is often troublesome.

[Aspenor]

well the max tome allowed is +5 so being odd to start isn't the end of the world.


NOOOO!!! DOOM I SAY!!! DDOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!

[Harbinder]

Good guide Asp. Interesting feat selections on this one. I like the human version, simply for the extra feat...also I agree Spell Pen is a good choice for the human.

[Aspenor]

Good guide Asp. Interesting feat selections on this one. I like the human version, simply for the extra feat...also I agree Spell Pen is a good choice for the human.

For a nuker I favor the human as well.

[Fennario]

If you play this build, you are gonna love the charm/firewall/diplomacy combo. Charm one or two mobs, drop a firewall on the rest, and while they chase you through it use your diplomacy to track them onto your charms. Drop a fireball. BOOM. Encounter over.

LOL. One of my favorite Diplomacy tricks is to tell the rest of the party to stay in your firewalls to fight (they really should be doing this anyway). Then you stand away from the firewall and diplo all the mobs right back into the furnace after they come out to say hi.:D

I know that jumping through your firewall like a mad man, or blocking inside it works just as well if not better, but sometimes I like to chill a little and see the action from a different angle. Besides, knowing that the power of my influence can get things to turn around and greet their own fiery death makes me happy. :)

[Varis]

this would mean shield instead of nightshield and using fluidity enhancements, correct?

yes, nightshield caps out at +3 so when you start to get +4 or +5 resistance items, it's pointless to keep nightshield.

Some only take fluidity 1 and deal with the 5% ASF, others get it to level 3, and in my case I picked up the titan gloves =).


also for enhancements, this is what I have at 14.4
I can recommend all but the elven dex for a nuke build


elven dex 1
improved heighen 1
improved empower 1
improved maxmise 1
elven resistance 2
concentration 1
fire/ice crit chance 3
fire/ice crit damage 3
fire/ice damage 4
sorc mana 4
sorc charisma 3

[Jakylpops]

Spell penetration on a Nuker...I think I'm gonna be sick. I give up on you people.

[Varis]

Spell penetration on a Nuker...I think I'm gonna be sick. I give up on you people.

Aspenor is obsessed with it lol. Cuz you know, it's important not to have your nukes resisted =)
I think he chose that because he could not resist giving even a pure nuker better crowd control.
For a human nuker though, I would have taken extend (for firewall, haste, displacement, etc) or toughness.

He got the drow feats right though which is the most important.

[Aspenor]

Spell penetration on a Nuker...I think I'm gonna be sick. I give up on you people.

Helps those FoD and PKs land on everything. Charms too.

Besides, what on earth feat would you take with a nuker with the extra human feat? Enlarge? Eschew?? Try and come up with something better!! Extend maybe...for haste and displacement only. The way I'd play this character, he won't be in a quest long enough to need extend spell, just blow through it at top speed.

[Aspenor]

Aspenor is obsessed with it lol. Cuz you know, it's important not to have your nukes resisted =)
I think he chose that because he could not resist giving even a pure nuker better crowd control.
For a human nuker though, I would have taken extend (for firewall, haste, displacement, etc) or toughness.

He got the drow feats right though which is the most important.

What am I obsessed with?? :)

Spell penetration is merely for charms, PKs, and FoD. It eliminates any need for a spell penetration item at almost any time, and thus you can carry your superior potency & superior lore items.

[wiglin]

As a human I would take SF:UMD, with human skill boost you can get quite high. I know some may not like it, but being able to reliably pop a heal scroll is a boon to any dps build.

[Varis]

As a human I would take SF:UMD, with human skill boost you can get quite high. I know some may not like it, but being able to reliably pop a heal scroll is a boon to any dps build.

very true. I currently use heal scrolls and my 15th level feat is reserved for that. Not sure if that belongs in a nuker build.
If you mix a dex tank build with a nuker though, the healing becomes a huge bonus.

[Aspenor]

Enhancements added.

[Shade]

Argh what a horrible build, and your other one was pretty good.. Hoping this isnt the one you actually play.

How hard is it to understand toughness is a huge gianourmous waste for the class that gets by far the most SP of anyone and also the least feats or any class?

You do not spend 2 feats on a what, sub 10% SP increase?? horrible waste. Youd save that and more by simply picking up extend, a absolutely required feat imo. If you can't get through a quest with the 1800+ SP youll get without toughness, you have to start thinking about rolling a fighter because you have no idea how to play a sorcerer. Its like, omg I cast 1 extra max emp fireball !!! my 2 feats just made a massive difference in thsi quest!!! But now there useless to me as there used up.

Said it before: Never take toughness.

[Aspenor]

Argh what a horrible build, and your other one was pretty good.. Hoping this isnt the one you actually play.

How hard is it to understand toughness is a huge gianourmous waste for the class that gets by far the most SP of anyone and also the least feats or any class?

If you read the previous 2 guides, I have made the exact argument you are making here in regards to those two builds. You'll get NO ARGUMENT from me that mental toughness is a waste of time.

I just got sick and tired of people critiquing each build based on THEIR point of view of what is best for every sorceror. OMGZORZ u dont have MT!?!?! YOU SUCK!! I argued till I was blue in the face (er, fingers).

In response to your first sentence, no I don't actually play any of these builds. Mine is partially different. Each one is adapted to a certain role and playstyle. I purposely WHOLLY adapted this build into the nuking role. Thus the removal of certain feats in favor for the MT feats.

So, the moral of the story is that I agree with you. I just built this guy around the name "nuker." I was sick of hearing "spell focus: enchantment in a generalist build? ***" or "NO MT?!?!?!" or whatever else their sorc differs from my proposed buildz.

I would argue that this character won't need extend, although it is always useful for firewalls, displacement, and haste. It's a question of personal preference.

I would also argue that calling this a "horrible" build is inaccurate. This build is "perfect" for what he is designed for. It's a judgement call whether you want to design a sorceror around one facet (nuking) or blend the different facets of casting (for example, take out the MT and IMT feats and replace with Extend Spell, and <insert desired feat here>)

[Jakylpops]

Extend is a MUST HAVE for any respectable Nuker.

You can still solo half of the high level quests on elite just by hopping around in a Max/Empower/Extended Wall of Fire after grabbing all the agro.

My buff bar looks like this
Jump
Blur
Nightshield
G-Heroism
False Life
Extend
Displacement
Haste

Just go right down the line hitting everything in sequence, then take off running...agro everything...drop Wall of Nuke, add solid fog if things are really crowded...Collect your loot and move on to the next chest.

Extend is primarily for Wall of Fire, Haste, and Displacement. With all the agro a good Nuker draws you will want these spells to last as long as possible...and Extended Solid Fog is still pretty **** good if you ask me.

Spell Penetration feats are like a "Linus Blanket" for people with no twitch skills...Take all 3 spell pen. enhancements and carry a spell pen. VII item IT'S ALL YOU NEED AT THIS POINT!

I still have no problem at all dropping anything in PoP Elite with a Finger of Death. I routinely kill the minibosses with finger and it's only about 1 in 5 times they succeed on a SR check against me.

Max
Empower
Extend
Sf: Necro
GSF: Necro

That's how you make a Necro-Nuker...maybe add heigthen if you're Human, but I don't recommend it unless you're using alot of lower level DC spells.
Most of my spells consist of buffs to keep me alive when I'm generating lots of agro, and I think Heigthen is a waste of SP on Nuke spells, at least under the current Meta-magic system. Your big money spells like Wall and Scorching Ray have no saves anyway...Heightened Web would be nice, but you can live without it since it tends to burn up anyway. I think I took it as my first level 2 spell and then dropped it for Scorching Ray at 11th level.

[Varis]

Grats Aspenor, for a NUKER this is the perfect build.


Jakylpops, why is extend a must have? You can't kill whatever you pulled without it? It's handy that's for sure and not a waste to have but not a MUST have.


Shade, wow... what an argument. Mental toughness is a waste? Because you say so? So the many many sorcerers that use it (including myself) should reroll a fighter becaues it is THAT much of a waste?

Talking trash without backing what you say up is a waste.

What are you gonna take instead? Powerattack? Two weapon fighting? Spell focus (insert your uber all important school here) and a greater spell focus?

If it's evocation then you're wasting your points. You get the +2 to DC with the dragon robe not to mention you don't really need a better DC with nukes.
Necromancy or Enchantment perhaps? LOL good job, now it's a necronuker or perhaps you get to hypnotic pattern right before you fireball.....

Very embarassing Shade...

[Shade]

Maybe read the post one above yours for the one feat a nuker must have instead of toughness instead of flaming yourself.

Number one damage spell = wall of fire.
Best way to increase its overall dmg dealt = duhh.

[Aspenor]

I still maintain this character can do without extend. It's an option, but not necessary.

[Khurse]

OK- another newb question here but can't you respec out feats later at a certain point? I've given Cowl MT, (now at lvl 2 I have 370pts)
I feel I pretty much need all of them to hit with a Niacs.

I had planned to swap MT out for something else later on,- am I mistaken?
Isn't swapping out feats failry easy for higher lvls?

[juniorpfactors]

what i did and am happy with is ...human....

max/mt/ imt@ 3/extend @6/ illusion focus@9/ necromancy@12 and then ditched extend and picked up empowered

by the time you get to 14 extend is really overkill

32 char...with only +1 tome

nuke em and pk/finger/stone machine...... i like the extra mana especially for firewalls when soloing

[Varis]

Maybe read the post one above yours for the one feat a nuker must have instead of toughness instead of flaming yourself.

Number one damage spell = wall of fire.
Best way to increase its overall dmg dealt = duhh.

well if you think that
extend, a absolutely required feat imo. is THAT necessary then feel free to use it. It's a good feat and handy beyond just longer buffs.

The rest of us will keep on taking out the same group of enemies without an extended firewall, get through the encounter without extended haste and when we get dispelled (again), we won't be upset because we still had 20 mins on the timer...


but they! required! oooh yeah

[wiglin]

I do not use extend on my sorcerer. Haste and displacement are the only two buffs that would really get alot of use out of it.

I do not need extended haste because striding boots are sufficient. I use displacement when I know I am going to get aggro. I do not leave it up the whole time.

Extended firewall..hmm I guess to each their own, but I have not found a battle in this game yet that lasts long enough that I need an extended firewall. Even while soloing most things drop from a maximized firewall without extending it so why bother. The only fights that last more than a few seconds in this game are boss fights, and for those I usually have full sp's anyways.

At level 14 with a magi helmet and 32 cha I am sitting at 1652 sp. I do not have mt or imt and I do not need them. If I run out of sp's its usually because I forgot to turn off maximize before trying to finger something.

[Deragoth]

If I run out of sp's its usually because I forgot to turn off maximize before trying to finger something.

:D

I used to hate that before I dropped FoD for DanceParty.

I have also played with the idea of dropping Extend. I sure like 28 minute buffs, but I find myself shrining a majority of the time before they expire... Ah well, something to keep in the back of my mind.

[Jakylpops]

I have Mental toughness on both my main casters...neither one has IMT though.

One has extend, the other doesn't...

I find soloing to be much, much easier on the one with extend just because it gives a little more room for error, you can even set up your area BEFORE pulling and know that you've still got plenty of time to get the job done.

It's not quite as important while grouping, although it is nice to be able to clear 2 or 3 rooms of PoP on one casting of Haste.

The point is it's going to save you about as much SP as IMT will give you, PLUS it gives you more options to choose from if you need them.

[Varis]

I agree that spell focus, extend and spell penetration in effect can save mana. In some situations as much if not more then MT.
However...
IT IS SITUATIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

will extend, focus or spell penetration help you when you are using cone of cold?? Scorching ray? NO! dead weight, worthless, the feats will do NOTHING to help you. Only for certain spells in certain situations will it be of advantage.

Mental toughness DOES work for every situation, regardless what you actually use your mana on, it is ALWAYS a benefit to have more spell points. It allows you to take on any role regardless of your specialization and have that extra backing.


Some say that 1600 spell points is enough, some say that a 30 or 28 charisma is enough. They are not incorrect. A good caster will make due with lower stats and less spell points. That is especially true with spell points. Those that aspire to be as cool as us (wizards) make due with far less.

With that kind of thinking, why take enhancements for mana? They cost a lot and we get very very little to show for it. The feats are worthless according to some of you so those are out too.
Since mana is not important, why use item slots for mana? All a wizardy item will give you is more SP, of which a sorcerer has naturally enough right?

Oh boy, I just realized that Roa has 1881 spell points. Yep, must be doing something wrong. Can't be that investing in a classes strengths is the right thing to do!
Great, now that I think about it, Roa has 34 charisma too... thank god no +3 tomes yet.

I don't have spell penetration enhancements or feats, just a common item. I don't have spell focus either and although I have absolutly no problem landing my spells without them, I am convinced that I made a bad choice.

well perhaps I can just change my enhancements and respec my feats...

oh but wait!

I did not start with a 14 con on my drow... ****... I figured that since drow get a -2 to con and a +2 to dex I should go for 16 dex and 12 con so I would not spend 2 for 1 points on creation...

sigh, guess I gotta reroll...




FIRST comes what makes the class. Charisma, mana and a good spell selection.
AFTER you get that, you may focus on utility, good hp, saves, perhaps some AC and if that is your thing, a specialization (nuker, enchanter, insta killer, etc)
The minute you forget a classes priorities, you weaken it.

Being good in a single school or versus a certain type of enemy is only worth it if your core abilities as a sorcerer don't suffer.
The biggest mistake it to confuse a mediocre performance outside a field of expertiese as a reason to specialize. (ex. unless you are insta kill spec, you can't insta kill anything)


This is why mental toughness is more important even though other feats can perform as good or better in certain situations.

[Nick_RC]

Argh what a horrible build


Said it before: Never take toughness.

Goddamn shade you never cease to surprise me. Always in absolutes. You dont need extend on this build. I play with asp regualrly and we are zergers. Things dont live through our maxed empowered firewalls. Maybe if yours is not as powerful i can understand the need for extend. What feats would you suggest for a direct damage nuker? Max, Empower. With the new enhancements coming in our spells will cost less and that 150 will go further.
Personally i dont have either of the MT feats on my sorc but I have a wiz6 helm. For a nuker who specs purely for dmg....more sp = more damage.


And yeah you have said it before, i seem to remember it was on a fighter never taking regular toughness. That argument didnt hold much weight. How about you say something constructive instead of attacking a post that has helped alot of new sorcs out. Looking forward to a repsonse.

[Allorious]

Oh boy, I just realized that Roa has 1881 spell points. Yep, must be doing something wrong. Can't be that investing in a classes strengths is the right thing to do!
Great, now that I think about it, Roa has 34 charisma too... thank god no +3 tomes yet.


Alorious has the same, as well as 189 HP.

[Allorious]

I have a couple of things to add as I've re-rolled Alorious enough to know the exact nuking build I use and find effective. Swap out empower for extend...its nicer to buff yourself only once. Secondly, with your umd....run the titan to death for the 7 fingered gloves. Its adds so much to your umd and allows for light armor. Alorious wears +5 mith chain shirt and has that +4 shield, I cant ever remember what it is called. Also a +5 protection necklace. Add some +3 barkskin via potion and away you go...no need for displacement after that.

Just my 2 cp

[Varis]

I have a couple of things to add as I've re-rolled Alorious enough to know the exact nuking build I use and find effective. Swap out empower for extend...its nicer to buff yourself only once. Secondly, with your umd....run the titan to death for the 7 fingered gloves. Its adds so much to your umd and allows for light armor. Alorious wears +5 mith chain shirt and has that +4 shield, I cant ever remember what it is called. Also a +5 protection necklace. Add some +3 barkskin via potion and away you go...no need for displacement after that.

Just my 2 cp

you still need displacement. The whole point of a decent AC for a sorc is so they don't hit you 95% of the time. You have it so they only hit you 80% or 70% of the time (talking elite end game stuff here) then COMBINED with displacement you end up with them only hitting you 20 or 30% of the time.

Those few times they DO hit, you have 100% fort so it won't be a crit and stoneskin so you end up taking very little damage.

This is why everything matters. Miss any of this and your health will drop fast if you are at melee with 3 trolls.

The same goes with hit points, saves, immunities. It all matters in the end.

Getting everything up there is hard. That's why you make charisma and mana a priority. AFTER that you worry about all the other stuff.

[Casta]

I would swap out spell pen on the human build and improved mental toughness on the drow for extend, haste and displacement don't last long enough with extend on.


Swap out empower for extend...its nicer to buff yourself only once.

Unless im missing something here the hole point of this build is to hit hard, empower makes you hit harder.


Alorious wears +5 mith chain shirt and has that +4 shield, I cant ever remember what it is called. Also a +5 protection necklace. Add some +3 barkskin via potion and away you go...no need for displacement after that.

Mobs in gianthold have roughly 40 attack, that means without over 40 ac there hitting you every attack anyway, you can get decent ac but without displacement you will still be hit almost every time.

[Shade]

. Things dont live through our maxed empowered firewalls. Maybe if yours is not as powerful i can understand the need for extend. What feats would you suggest for a direct damage nuker? Max, Empower. With the new enhancements coming in our spells will cost less and that 150 will go further.

Really your firewalls kill all these mobs in 1 cast without extend?
Queen Lailat
Stormreaver
Ogres in Madstone elite
4 bosses in Tor
Crucible bosses

And comon dude, theres no need for silly asumptions or flames. Like all my characters, my sorcerer deals the maximum possible damage and does so the most efficient manner. Ofcourse he has maximum possible firewall dmg, max charisma, max SP, nearly all +2 tomes used, etc. I don't play around. I rarely get outkilled, even in melee heavy quests like madstone elite. Under 5% of time ever i've been outkilled, and never by another caster, or really any class except barbarian or fighter.

My opinions are extreme, but thats because thats how I like to play. I prefer things to very smoothly and everyone to do well. I don't group with casters that dont have extend. Many others don't either.

The idea that "I do not need extended haste because striding boots are sufficient. I use displacement when I know I am going to get aggro. I do not leave it up the whole time." just does not fly with me.
DDO is a group game, so to make chracter choices that are selfish annoys me and is the reason I say extend is required.

When I play my melee I expect constant haste, even if there is nothing to fight. I don't care what striding boots you have, I might not be wearing any and im not the one you want to fall behind, im the tank. In many quests I also want constant displacement and other buffs, don't put as high a priority on it but the casters that do understand I like having it gain allot more respect from me.

Problem with that is this:
Caster that can provide that to me without extend: less then 1%
Caster that can do that with extend, over 95%

Personally I like to help out my groups with everyting my character can reasonably provide, as such i'll cast and xtend any buff requested, and often cast them regardless.

So yea, if your goal is to solo always or ignore the request of your allies, by all means. Just don't be surprised when I don't recruit you for my groups.

[Aspenor]

So yea, if your goal is to solo always or ignore the request of your allies, by all means. Just don't be surprised when I don't recruit you for my groups.

Neither Nick nor I wants to be in your groups ;) Trust me.

[Aspenor]

This nuker has no use for extend. I maintain that and I will continue to do so.

This IS a selfish build. My mana pool is mine, if you want buffs go get a buffomatic, or a bard.

[wiglin]

If a mellee wants to have haste the whole quest they can drink a potion. Much like if I want to top of my life I can drink a potion. I never ask a cleric to remove curse, blindess, fear, or anything else I can drink a potion for. I carry haste potions on all my mellee. If I am not in a fight I am not going to ask the caster to haste me so I can run faster.

For those few quest where the boss fight take a minute or two, I have full sp so I can cast firewall after firewall, no need for extend.

[Aspenor]

So I finally actually ROLLED this character on Ghallanda not long ago. Since it is a brand new server for me, I had only 28 points and no drow. I chose human, went 18 charisma, 16 con, and 10 intelligence.

Maxxed UMD, Concentration, and Diplomacy.

1st level spells - charm person, niacs

2nd level - burning hands

3rd level - hypnotism

feats-
1st level- mental toughness and empower
3rd level - maximize

So far this guy is a powerhouse, even mostly untwinked. I have received some donations from people around the server, but so far I still have the base potency staff and just a robe of spearblock. I solod my way almost to level 3 in the harbor using charm person and diplomacy, and niacs when I need to kill. Duod through waterworks and STK with a friend.

BEHOLD MY 00BER UNTWINKAGE!!

Good times :)

[wiglin]

I donated :)

[Sutek]

(with an armored sorc I mean 8 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 10 int, 8 wis, 20 cha in a mithral chain shirt)



What negative effects if any are associated with wearing armor that you're not proficient with?

[Aspenor]

What negative effects if any are associated with wearing armor that you're not proficient with?

None for a caster, you're not worried about penalties to-hit since you're casting spells and not meleeing.

[Shade]

What negative effects if any are associated with wearing armor that you're not proficient with?

Well sorcerers aren't proficeint in any armor.
Even most light armor has some armor check penalty, which will lower your movement skills like tumble, balance and jump. Jump is of rather critical importance on a nuker build so I woulrn't recommend wearing any armor due to that.

Then ofcourse spell failure, agian the non-proficieny doesnt effect that, but most armor has some.

Then the direct non-prof penalty is -4 to attack. Now it is pretty difficult to melee on a sorcerer, but if you load yourself up with stoneskin, haste, displacement and rage and pick up a nice +5 wep (best use a simple wep like quarterstaff) you can actually melee pretty much anything on normal just fine with little risk.
I use a shining cresent and got a 16 str so it works pretty nice really when the sp runs dry.

[Varis]

Well sorcerers aren't proficeint in any armor.
Even most light armor has some armor check penalty, which will lower your movement skills like tumble, balance and jump. Jump is of rather critical importance on a nuker build so I woulrn't recommend wearing any armor due to that.

Then ofcourse spell failure, agian the non-proficieny doesnt effect that, but most armor has some.

Then the direct non-prof penalty is -4 to attack. Now it is pretty difficult to melee on a sorcerer, but if you load yourself up with stoneskin, haste, displacement and rage and pick up a nice +5 wep (best use a simple wep like quarterstaff) you can actually melee pretty much anything on normal just fine with little risk.
I use a shining cresent and got a 16 str so it works pretty nice really when the sp runs dry.


Glad to see Shade is such an expert...

when you wear armor, the armor check penalty will affect skills regardless of proficiency. The difference is, if you are not proficient, the penalty applied to your skill is ALSO applied to your attack bonus.

If you are in padded armor, leather armor, masterwork studded leather armor or a mithral chain shirt, there is NO PENALTY. It won't matter if you are proficient or not.

ALSO, there is no -4 penalty for fighting in armor. Aside from a possible armor check penalty lowering you to hit, only fighting with a exotic weapon that you are not proficient with, will you get you a -4 to attack.

At least Shade was right that arcane spell failure and armor check penalty are separate and independant.

That can be overcome or reduced by mithral, twilight, arcane fluidity and 7 fingered gloves.


So as long as you plan for it, fighting in armor is no problem at all. There is no reason for it to restrict your character.

A fully buffed sorcerer can hit most opponents in the game. How hard that hit is? Umm well that's another story ;)
Let's just say that unless it's a holy+greater bane weapon, it will be slow going.


edit: oh this vid is old but it shows how you can make use of armor and weapons even as a sorcerer.
http://stage6.divx.com/user/VarisRoa/video/1073030/Vault-of-Night

[Aspenor]

Charm + Diplomacy FTW

Who needs a tanks? Heck, who needs a party?

[Varis]

Charm + Diplomacy FTW

Who needs a tanks? Heck, who needs a party?

sheesh, not everyone wants to con and argue their way through a dungeon. Some casters like the good old fashion nuke n fight and not have a whole army of pets stuck to their ass.


It certainly has it's uses like I charm a group of "meat" together myself in cabal for the final fight.

Casters still get the finger

Overall though, there is nothing better then nuking your way through a dungeon.

[Aspenor]

sheesh, not everyone wants to con and argue their way through a dungeon. Some casters like the good old fashion nuke n fight and not have a whole army of pets stuck to their ass.


It certainly has it's uses like I charm a group of "meat" together myself in cabal for the final fight.

Casters still get the finger

Overall though, there is nothing better then nuking your way through a dungeon.

LoL :) Oh I nuke, don't get me wrong. There are times and places for it though. And you can't exactly nuke your way through everything at level 6 :)

At least not without a few fighters around to dish some damage too.

[Varis]

LoL :) Oh I nuke, don't get me wrong. There are times and places for it though. And you can't exactly nuke your way through everything at level 6 :)

At least not without a few fighters around to dish some damage too.

it can be done. In fact it's almost an art like proper charming if a bit more risky. You just gotta learn how to gather up the masses and burning hands or firewall them to death... without getting killed in the process. Using Niacs to blast your way through will only work till like level 4, perhaps 5. After that you don't 1 shot them anymore and there is just not enough mana going around.

It is also not wise to solo on elite with just nukes. You'd have to be really twinked to pull that off.

[Aspenor]

it can be done. In fact it's almost an art like proper charming if a bit more risky. You just gotta learn how to gather up the masses and burning hands or firewall them to death... without getting killed in the process. Using Niacs to blast your way through will only work till like level 4, perhaps 5. After that you don't 1 shot them anymore and there is just not enough mana going around.

It is also not wise to solo on elite with just nukes. You'd have to be really twinked to pull that off.

As you well know I'm playing on YOUR server and I have zero twinkage available. Trust me, if it were possible to nuke your way through everything alone at this level, I'd know. It's not. Calling it an art and trying to rationalize it is pretty cute, but not at all realistic.

[Varis]

As you well know I'm playing on YOUR server and I have zero twinkage available. Trust me, if it were possible to nuke your way through everything alone at this level, I'd know. It's not. Calling it an art and trying to rationalize it is pretty cute, but not at all realistic.

gimme your name on my server and I can take you on some quests that you feel require charm to get through solo. (not von3... I already did that heh)

I might as well hit up my bank as well to see if you can use any toys. Perhaps it is a bit different now, but I soloed Roa up to 7th level. Soloing WW, STK, gray moon, tangleroot, depths, the set of level 5ish houes k quests, etc without even having a charm spell.

With bunching up I meant just like trolls in my clip. 1 fireball and like 15 kills.

[Aspenor]

The damage output just isnt there at low levels, even on a fully twinked sorc, unless youre talking about multiple normal runs instead of the standard norm/hard/elite progression. Multiple normal runs are an ungodly waste of time though....

btw my name on your server is the same as you see above ;)

[Aspenor]

Comment for build modification pending mod 5:

A human nuker may decide to take a Spell Focus: Necromancy in place of the Spell Penetration feat. This will increase the killing power of his Fingers of Death and will help control crowds of undead, which will be quite prevalent in mod 5.

[Aspenor]

Touched up some mistakes in the copy/paste from previous threads, this build is alot different than they.

[Aspenor]

Upon nearly reaching level cap 14 for my 28 pt Human on Ghallanda, I finally got my final SP enhancement. I was resting at 1908 SP, so I swapped IMT for Extend. This will only be useful on buffs anyway, but that's okay. Big boy hastes and displacements are worth more than 70 more sp at the moment. I'll get some more back if I can get 34 charisma.

[TommyBoy]

Asp, Why Diplo and not Bluff?

[Aspenor]

Asp, Why Diplo and not Bluff?

Well, bluff is a class skill, and can be put to great use by a sorceror. I chose diplomacy, a non-class skill, really for the reason of the functionality of these skills in DDO. Diplomacy pushes aggro away from you onto other party members, or your charms. I have several charm spells, and diplomacy even works on some undead and most golems. Using diplomacy I can charm and run through a lot, and solo and short man many quests very easily, nuking heavily when I need to.

If you feel you can sacrifice some hit points for the bluff skill, you can use bluff to make a target prone to sneak attacks for your friendly rogue. However, in DDO bluff is a target skill and diplomacy is an AoE skill effect.

[transtemporal]

Aspenor, what is your diplomacy at and what are you getting it from (items etc)? I have a lvl 11 sorc w 22 diplo and it doesn't seem to dissuade the creatures I've nuked a whole lot!

[Aspenor]

Aspenor, what is your diplomacy at and what are you getting it from (items etc)? I have a lvl 11 sorc w 22 diplo and it doesn't seem to dissuade the creatures I've nuked a whole lot!

I wear at minimum a +10 diplomacy item pretty much at all times. My skill mod is in the low to mid 30's, doesn't always work flawlessly but works well enough.

[transtemporal]

I wear at minimum a +10 diplomacy item pretty much at all times. My skill mod is in the low to mid 30's, doesn't always work flawlessly but works well enough.

Cool, thanks. :)

[Sutek]

Any suggested spell swapage for new content?

[Aspenor]

Any suggested spell swapage for new content?

Current spells for mod 5:
Level 1 - Jump, Nightshield, Expeditious Retreat, Chill Touch
Level 2 - Blur, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, Control Undead
Level 3 - Haste, Fireball, Protection from Energy, Displacement
Level 4 - Phantasmal Killer, Charm Monster, Firewall, Stoneskin
Level 5 - Break Enchantment, Cone of Cold, Symbol of Pain
Level 6 - Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone
Level 7 - Finger of Death

various choices exist here.....
You might want to have enervation instead of charm monster, if you care less about short man runs and more about easy kills in full parties.
You might want something like teleport or cloudkill instead of symbol of pain, I use the Symbol for debuffing raid bosses.

[Cold_Stele]

Aspenor - masterful thread.

Many thanks.

[Pfamily]

Hi y'all,

Noob Sorceror here has a Q about the advancement lined out at the beginning of this thread. I've checked the numbers and I can't make the progression as stated work out, let me explain...and feel free to point out any errors.

The overall goals are:
Charisma I-III
Energy of the Dragonblooded I-IV
Ele. manip I-IV
Lineage of elements I-III
Lin. of deadly elements I-III
Force manip I
Lin. of force I
Concentration I-III
Imp. heighten I
Spell pen. I

There are two problems I have found. First, the total adds to 58 ap, don't we only get 56? Not a real prob if true as it's easy enough to eliminate something, but the real problem I find is that the progression doesn't work.

Lvl 1 starts easy enough with:
Dragonblooded I
Ele manip I
Conc I
Force manip I

At lvl 2:
Charisma I
...then the problem; so far you have only spent 6ap and the next two in the progression (lineage of elements I & lineage of force I, both available at level 3) require at least 7ap spent. All other target enhancements require even more prerequisite ap.
This forces you to take "something else" at level 2 just to spend the required ap for the next target enhancements, which in turn limits what you have available at higher levels.

I've checked the ap point and level requirements in-game and believe they're correct.

Any thoughts...did I miss something?

[Aspenor]

Hi y'all,

Noob Sorceror here has a Q about the advancement lined out at the beginning of this thread. I've checked the numbers and I can't make the progression as stated work out, let me explain...and feel free to point out any errors.

The overall goals are:
Charisma I-III
Energy of the Dragonblooded I-IV
Ele. manip I-IV
Lineage of elements I-III
Lin. of deadly elements I-III
Force manip I
Lin. of force I
Concentration I-III
Imp. heighten I
Spell pen. I

There are two problems I have found. First, the total adds to 58 ap, don't we only get 56? Not a real prob if true as it's easy enough to eliminate something, but the real problem I find is that the progression doesn't work.

Lvl 1 starts easy enough with:
Dragonblooded I
Ele manip I
Conc I
Force manip I

At lvl 2:
Charisma I
...then the problem; so far you have only spent 6ap and the next two in the progression (lineage of elements I & lineage of force I, both available at level 3) require at least 7ap spent. All other target enhancements require even more prerequisite ap.
This forces you to take "something else" at level 2 just to spend the required ap for the next target enhancements, which in turn limits what you have available at higher levels.

I've checked the ap point and level requirements in-game and believe they're correct.

Any thoughts...did I miss something?

Some of the enhancements' costs have changed since I wrote the thread. :) I'll work on it.

[Cold_Stele]

I've rolled a few casters to 4 or 5 and given up cos I just wasn't enjoying them as much as my melees. I'm having a great time with this guy though! Up to 6 and going strong, can't wait to cap him.

For anyone rolling one of these there are a couple of suggestions I'd make to take the gind out of the lower levels (up to lvl 6).

After watching a guildie at work I'm now using Shocking Grasp as my damage spell of choice. The huge advantage it has over the other 1st and 2nd level damage spells is the insanely quick casting time. No more casting at a mob and being tripped or someone else killing it whilst I'm still on the casting animation. Aggro management is very easy as it's selective and AOE not really necessary as you can tab thru and insta-kill a bunch of trash mobs in no time. At lvl 5 with a greater potency item and maximize it hits for about 80pts of damage - just enough to one hit kill an arcane skelly in Deleras on normal, probably one of the most dangerous mobs to a party at this level.

The other thing I've done (possibly as a temporary measure) is use a dragonshard to swap out MT for Extend at lvl 6. I have enough mana to nuke and still Haste the party all the way through Deleras and Stormcleave. All that Haste helps to take the grind out a little, especially if you have questionable melees in a PUG. Like it or not melees>casters at these levels so make them work faster and harder at leveling you.

Once again thanks for posting the build Aspenor - it's a blast!

[Oreg]

Have to agree with Cold Steele. I just hit 10 last night having started this character about 10 days ago and I am loving it. This is my first arcane caster build and I have been playing since beta. I too took MT, Maximize, Extend and Empower so far in that order. I am undecided if I will take Heighten or IMT but am leaning towards Heighten.

The enhancement progression did need to be tweeked a bit but I have found that the main goals are still feasible. I don't think I will hit Energy of Dragonblood maxed but the damage enhancements are more important to me than 40 more spell points. I have other means of getting sp through equipment.

Thanks again for posting this Aspenor. I was not inspired by other builds to start a sorc and I am glad that I waited for this one.

[transtemporal]

I am undecided if I will take Heighten or IMT but am leaning towards Heighten.

Heighten heighten heighten! Turn it on once and never turn it off! Heighten increases the chance that your lower-level back-end direct damage spells will do full damage and therefore remain useful as you level. Ideally you want your spell DCs to keep pace with, or preferably outpace mob saves. Heighten, along with cha (or int for a wiz) increases and school focus(es) gives you the best chance of zorching those mobs for full damage every time.

[Oreg]

Can't argue with that. Heighten it is. In which case I will probably exchange out the MT feat I took.

[Aspenor]

Can't argue with that. Heighten it is. In which case I will probably exchange out the MT feat I took.

I have since reworked both feats and enhancements for this guy, made him a bit more party-friendly at the cost of a few sp.

Original feats in this build were MT, IMT, Heighten, Maximize, Empower, and Spell Pen.

I've decided to currently roll with MT, Heighten, Maximize, Empower, Extend, and SF Necromancy (fingers of death and commanding undead). I might change the necromancy, IDK.

Oh yeah, I'm rolling Human, so I have an extra feat too.

[Oreg]

I would have loved to add SF:Necromancy but I can't respec MT to Heighten so I will have to take Heighten at 12 (soon, a few days ) and SF:necro at our next feat level. Which is when btw? 15?

[Aspenor]

I would have loved to add SF:Necromancy but I can't respec MT to Heighten so I will have to take Heighten at 12 (soon, a few days ) and SF:necro at our next feat level. Which is when btw? 15?

Yeah level 15. I'll probably just take that other mental toughness feat at 15. It was kinda nice having 1900 SP for a day or so. By then it'll be like 2100 or more...if I ever get skyver, definitely.

[Averroes]

I would have loved to add SF:Necromancy but I can't respec MT to Heighten so I will have to take Heighten at 12 (soon, a few days ) and SF:necro at our next feat level. Which is when btw? 15?

You could always swap out MT for SF:Necro and then grab heighten at 12...

Heighten has a prereq of being able to cast level 3 spells IIRC -- none of your other feats have prereqs that are going to bother you.


And for what it's worth, I'm not at all a fan of heighten. Cast a few 40 mana hypnotisms or chill touches and let us know how you like it. :)

[Zephyriah]

Some of the enhancements' costs have changed since I wrote the thread. :) I'll work on it.


Hi, I ran into the same thing with the enhancement costs/progression. Any update would be great as I have 8 action points that are unused and I'm not sure how to spend them.....thank you for the thread, it helps a lot!

[Dark-Star]

This seems more like a necro build using fire wall, and what sorc build doesn't use that?

If we are talking true pure nuker, your 7th level spell should be delayed blast fireball, and your feats should be maximize, empower, heighten, sf: evocation, gsf:evocation; the last three to reduce reflex saves on fb and and the last two for dbfb.

Nothing at all wrong with the build, it certainly has more versatility and situational effectiveness, but it's more in the camp of a generalist than a pure nuker.

[Cowdenicus]

Daddy needs to bookmark this for Nukesalot

[Aspenor]

This seems more like a necro build using fire wall, and what sorc build doesn't use that?

If we are talking true pure nuker, your 7th level spell should be delayed blast fireball, and your feats should be maximize, empower, heighten, sf: evocation, gsf:evocation; the last three to reduce reflex saves on fb and and the last two for dbfb.

Nothing at all wrong with the build, it certainly has more versatility and situational effectiveness, but it's more in the camp of a generalist than a pure nuker.

A single 7th level spell does not a build break.

I have *actually* been considering dropping the SF: Necromancy for another mental toughness feat :) I know I know, I can hear Shade screaming at his monitor already. Having 2003 spell points and still just 32 charisma is just looking OH SOO juicy....

I don't feel that an evocation focus is quite worth spending a feat on, especially 2 levels of it for a sorc. Maybe if I had another feat or two to play with, maybe end game I will have it, but not this current point in time. The evo focus will only increase failed monster saves by 5&#37; per feat, only marginally increasing DPS.

Bear in mind that this character is somewhat generalist yes. He is rounded out for being able to solo pretty much every quest in the game. Necromancy focus is for dropping casters and clerics before they can hit me with a command or other nasty enchantment, and cone of cold + fireball is for mopping up the melee type mobs.

I really RARELY use my firewalls, except for in certain quests with phasing monsters or ones requiring sustained DPS over time. I have found that Cone of Cold is my staple nuking spell.

And yes when the level cap raises to 16 I will be taking Delayed Blast Fireball and probably Polar Ray as my level 8 spell. Hopefully I can get my hands on a greater potency VIII one-hander early next mod. However, if they do me a favor and put MIND BLANK in the level 8 spell list, I will have a pretty tough decision.

[Dark-Star]

If this is your build you are showing us, then my apologies. The title says nuker guide, so my assumption was that we as a community were showing people how to build a nuker. If that is not the case, sorry for posting on your personal build thread (no sarcasm intended here).

The build posted is more of a generalist. It's a very good build, it's very similar what my main sorc is built like, but it is not a true nuker build completely commited to firey death.

Yes one spell and two feats does make it a nuker vs. a necro or generalist. I have a sorc friend built as a true nuker with the above feats and spells, and in the right quests, his kill counts are insane. Spamming greater focused/heightened FB/DBFB is a sight to behold. In places like the Reaver, I leave him in the dust in kills with my generalist.

[sigtrent]

Spell penetration is merely for charms, PKs, and FoD. It eliminates any need for a spell penetration item at almost any time, and thus you can carry your superior potency & superior lore items.

Even if you are a nuker, it makes sense to take some CC spells, and if you are a CC caster it makes sense to take some damage spells. Even with feats you end up having enough room to splash a feat to support your off side casting. And there really arn't enough enhancements on either side of the fense to spend them all (unless you go for multi elemental focus I suppose)

[sigtrent]

Yes one spell and two feats does make it a nuker vs. a necro or generalist. I have a sorc friend built as a true nuker with the above feats and spells, and in the right quests, his kill counts are insane. Spamming greater focused/heightened FB/DBFB is a sight to behold. In places like the Reaver, I leave him in the dust in kills with my generalist.

I think most of the socrs don't bother with DBFB yet because cone of cold does the same damage up to level 15

[Dark-Star]

Sure, take heightened web or hypnotize for CC.

Cone of Cold and Delayed blast Fire Ball are two totally different spells. One is a cone, one is ae. The nuker knows when both are to be used.

[Aspenor]

If this is your build you are showing us, then my apologies. The title says nuker guide, so my assumption was that we as a community were showing people how to build a nuker. If that is not the case, sorry for posting on your personal build thread (no sarcasm intended here).

The build posted is more of a generalist. It's a very good build, it's very similar what my main sorc is built like, but it is not a true nuker build completely commited to firey death.

Yes one spell and two feats does make it a nuker vs. a necro or generalist. I have a sorc friend built as a true nuker with the above feats and spells, and in the right quests, his kill counts are insane. Spamming greater focused/heightened FB/DBFB is a sight to behold. In places like the Reaver, I leave him in the dust in kills with my generalist.

It originally wasn't a MY build, but now it is. LOL, and no offense taken at all I was just discussing the ins and outs.

I'm sure your friend has a lot of fun with his build, but yeah, I imagine both my build and yours would roll him up in a pipe and smoke him in the reaver raid.

No worries bro I'm not getting all in your face I'm just discussing. I find that well-placed charms and diplo work better than nuking in many situations ;)

Dont forget this was posted several months ago before changed meta's, and back when the "nuking" concept was starting to be generally accepted and widely used.

[Aspenor]

Here are the current enhancements I'm using, and use this enhancement planner (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/enh/) to outline the exact order you can take to get them :)

Human Adaptability I: Charisma
Human Improved Recovery I
Human Versatility I
Improved Empower I
Improved Maximize I
Skill: Concentration I
Lineage of Elements III
Lineage of Deadly Elements III
Elemental Manipulation IV
Improved Spell Penetration I
Energy of the Dragonblooded IV
Sorcerer Charisma III

[Aspenor]

With the release of mod 6, my "nuking" sorcerer will be slightly remolded into a more generalized / spell penetration build.

AFAIK all of my action points will be spent in spell penetration until I am maxxed.

Mental Toughness swapped for Spell Penetration

Spell Focus: Necromancy swapped for Greater Spell Penetration

[Oreg]

Doing much the same altho I may try to sneak a few acton pts in electric modifiers to boost chain lightening.

[Pfamily]

I think I'm running into a rookie mistake, a little help please.

I built a nuking sorc using this guide as a template, love it. I did, however, take MT and IMT as feats and I'm now thinking I should switch out IMT for GSP, as I took SP as my lvl 15 feat. I'm not having trouble landing FoD or other spells requiring I beat the mobs SR, but I'm thinking ahead and don't want to get into a trap where I won't have enough spell pen to defeat what's coming...or what we have now at hard/elite.

I hate to lose the spell points (any idea how many I'll lose?); but if ya can't hit it, more points 'ain't gonna kill it.

On a related topic...how much spell pen is enough? I have a 34 Cha, wear the reaver napkin, and use a spell pen 7 scepter, but no spell pen enhancements (dumb, in retrospect I think). I can't really tell what my DC is because it changes seemingly every time I look at the spell dialog. I think it's 29 or 30...but again, it depends on when I look.

Thanks in advance.

[Oreg]

oh boy. I could be wrong but since you took sp at 15 I do not think Fred will let you respec an earlier feat to GSP being that GSP has a requirement of having SP (which techincally you didnt have at that level). You probably should have respecced to SP and then taken GSP as your 15.

[Pfamily]

oh boy. I could be wrong but since you took sp at 15 I do not think Fred will let you respec an earlier feat to GSP being that GSP has a requirement of having SP (which techincally you didnt have at that level). You probably should have respecced to SP and then taken GSP as your 15.

Oops...
I'll let ya know when I try tonight.

Dang...I hope you're wrong!

[Aspenor]

oh boy. I could be wrong but since you took sp at 15 I do not think Fred will let you respec an earlier feat to GSP being that GSP has a requirement of having SP (which techincally you didnt have at that level). You probably should have respecced to SP and then taken GSP as your 15.

First point, it appears that even if you took Spell Penetration at a later level you can respec into Greater Spell Penetration at an earlier level. I swapped a level 1 feat for greater spell pen yesterday after swapping a later one for regular Spell Penetration.

Secondly, I am making a new thread for my sorc build post. My character can no longer be classified as a true nuker.

[Mindspat]

well done with feats and spell selection.

it may be worth it to throw in the possebility to combine an armored sorc build with a nuker.

A pure nuker get a LOT of attention from mobs and even a 40ish AC will go a long way combined with displacement. Obviously I will have 14 less hp's then the 14 con build but the higher dex will help vs the many traps, nukes and stuff like trip. With a 40ish AC it also makes more sense to block inside a firewall.

(with an armored sorc I mean 8 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 10 int, 8 wis, 20 cha in a mithral chain shirt)


Also, I would like to see your suggestions on enhancements.

http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00002lf1.jpg

That's a screen shot of my Sorcerer with a 50 ac. The items worn are: The Torqe de rayium II, Fanion, Seal of The Earth, Bramble Casters, Chattering Ring, Head of Good Fortune, Spectacular Optics, with the helmet and braces being used for clickies.

[Aspenor]

http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00002lf1.jpg

That's a screen shot of my Sorcerer with a 50 ac. The items worn are: The Torqe de rayium II, Fanion, Seal of The Earth, Bramble Casters, Chattering Ring, Head of Good Fortune, Spectacular Optics, with the helmet and braces being used for clickies.

/yawns

theres no reason to really rehash the AC issue, this thread is soooooo oldddd.....

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

I have to say it...Asp has been my main sorc...ahem...source... for informative, decicive, sorc build decisions.

I had never played this level of caster power in any game...ever!

I had many concerns wether or not I could actually play this type of character.

I had no clue where to start..

Little Blastrine has lived up to her "Menace" surname.
She is a nuker build as first posted. I varied little from spec.
She is now level 13. She had a lot of support in my guild to level 8 and pretty much soloed there after to level 12.

Effective? Yea. Powerful? Duh! Fun? Lol...So much in fact that I try to play her as oft as possible.
Does she hold her own? Definately. She may be little but she generally runs with a much older crowd.

I have learned that I need to hold back....occasionally...in order to prevent party agro.
I allow others to have respectable kill counts. It makes it easier to get PUG rep.

I wish to again thank Aspenor for helping me lose my trepidation in building, experiencing and enjoying the realm of the nuker..
Thanx!!!!!!one!!!ONEoneONE!!!
<<<<<<<BOOM>>>>>>>

[Mindspat]

/yawns

theres no reason to really rehash the AC issue, this thread is soooooo oldddd.....

It's about as old as the level of thought that prevents diversty and dynamics. Must be frustrating to know others are doing it better while doing it differently. :cool:

[Aspenor]

It's about as old as the level of thought that prevents diversty and dynamics. Must be frustrating to know others are doing it better while doing it differently. :cool:

:confused: What does that mean???

This is a template.

If somebody wants to waste their time and inventory slots making an AC sorcerer, go ahead.

Better? Hardly.

good twitch skills > 55 AC on a sorcerer.

Varis and myself had this conversation months and months ago, I am not going to rehash the whole thing again.

[Deragoth]

...
If somebody wants to waste their time and inventory slots making an AC sorcerer, go ahead.

Better? Hardly.

good twitch skills > 55 AC on a sorcerer.
...

100% Agreed.

I would say worrying about AC on a sorcerer is the opposite of a better option. I'll take my Displacement+Jump+Stoneskin over anything else.

[Oreg]

100% Agreed.

I would say worrying about AC on a sorcerer is the opposite of a better option. I'll take my Displacement+Jump+Stoneskin over anything else.

You are missing the point. It's Ac + Displacement+Jump+Stoneskin. Personally my AC is 39-40 with 238 hps and he just doesn't die real easily.

[Mindspat]

I would say worrying about AC on a sorcerer is the opposite of a better option. I'll take my Displacement+Jump+Stoneskin over anything else.

Many MOBs are dispelling buffs. AC is a bit harder to deBuff then it is to remove your active mitigation. One effect in its self isn't nearly as important as them all together. The AC is not going to keep your rear safe alone and modifying your mitigation with as many parameters as possible is the easiest path to victory.

My inital post was in reply to someone who though the OP had a decent idea while the person voiced interest in a similar build but with a high AC. *This* is where the origination of my post came from, and to think that a template is a static build which cannot be improved upon is only true if you play World of Warcraft.

And seriously, who's "worrying"? :cool:

[Aspenor]

Thing is....

What did you have to give up to get your high AC sorcerer? Inventory slots. Action points. Build points in dexterity.

It's not necessarily an "improvement," it's just not what this character was built for.

[Mindspat]

Thing is....

What did you have to give up to get your high AC sorcerer? Inventory slots. Action points. Build points in dexterity.

It's not necessarily an "improvement," it's just not what this character was built for.

Uhm, I don't think I gave up anything. I believe it's very possible to build AC into a nuker without forfieting the nescesities. My damage is still high and my surviability is even higher.

Inventory slots: have plenty of room for loot.
Action points: 1 rank in Elven Arcane Fluidity
Feats+stats: Finnesse+Dexterity

The only deterence from an A-typical generic build would be the Dexterity and Finness. My build was *not* intentional and simply graduated to the degree of sucess from good loot runs. I rolled the character when DDO launched and learned shortly afterwards this was not the Dungeons & Dragons I had known. Thankfully, my decisions had paid off nicely while still being a sucessful nuker.

Keep in mind that the strength of a build is going to based upon the flexibility of what a user can do with it. Rigid formats without diversity aren't the best options. Being able to tweak upon a build to accent a players playstyle exemplifies a good foundation for a build.

Most importantly, The OP presents a good foundation for nuking Sorcerers although if a few areas of "optionals" were available it would have been more rewarding to a thread labled as a "Guide".

[Aspenor]

Most importantly, The OP presents a good foundation for nuking Sorcerers although if a few areas of "optionals" were available it would have been more rewarding to a thread labled as a "Guide".

This was part 3 of three seperate build templates that could be considered part of a "series."

In these threads I outlined which spells were chosen, why, and their best functions and uses, mostly for people new to playing a sorcerer.

Nowhere have I ever said "there is one and only one proper way to build a sorcerer." I do have my opinions about what is more useful, but I leave up to others to tweak anything I post as they see fit. I'm not going around telling people their build is gimp with 50 AC on a sorc, I'm just saying that you had to give up things to get there.

And you most certainly did have to give up some things. You need to wear armor, carry a shield, wear a protection item or dodge item, stuff like that.

So, I'll rehash the point that this thread is oh...around 6 months old now, and the AC issue has been touched in every single one of the versions of the guide, I'm kindof sick of the same arguments being put out there over and over again. My argument hasn't changed not in favor of AC, and the argument for AC also has not changed, it just is what it is. A choice, a choice that I chose differently. Nobody is going to come up with some sudden revelation that changes my mind.

With only 12 AC and over 250 hit points this character does extremely well, and as I mentioned before he is no longer a straight nuker. In mod 6 a straight nuker will specialize almost entirely into fire and ice, and also spend his extras on electricity enhancements, and take ball and chain lightning for fighting devils.

I chose a different route. I went spell pen/instadeath combined with the same fire/ice spec nuker. He's definitely more generally focused, but he is a major killing machine that is rarely outkilled. I don't have a single crowd control spell, so he has to be.

[Mindspat]

I chose a different route. I went spell pen/instadeath combined with the same fire/ice spec nuker. He's definitely more generally focused, but he is a major killing machine that is rarely outkilled. I don't have a single crowd control spell, so he has to be.

And becuase you had a great foundation to build upon you have a kick ass Sorcerer. :)

[Deragoth]

You are missing the point. It's Ac + Displacement+Jump+Stoneskin. Personally my AC is 39-40 with 238 hps and he just doesn't die real easily. No, I think you're emphasizing a point that is moot. I don't mean any offense by that, but unless you're in the mid 50's(60s in elite vale quests?), I feel wasting item slots on AC gear is counterproductive. You're getting hit on elite as much as I am with a low 20s AC. That's not to say that you're ineffectual... Just that you could be better optimized for that high-end content.

Personally my AC is low 20 something with 222hps, a +24 spell penetration (Level7 and under), and a 36 charisma. I just don't die hardly at all :p

[Varis]

No, I think you're emphasizing a point that is moot. I don't mean any offense by that, but unless you're in the mid 50's(60s in elite vale quests?), I feel wasting item slots on AC gear is counterproductive. You're getting hit on elite as much as I am with a low 20s AC. That's not to say that you're ineffectual... Just that you could be better optimized for that high-end content.

Personally my AC is low 20 something with 222hps, a +24 spell penetration (Level7 and under), and a 36 charisma. I just don't die hardly at all :p

I'll have to support the AC argument. I have been running a nuking sorcerer with armor since day 1, MUCH before people ever considered its viability.

While a mid 40's or 50 AC won't protect you against a lot of elite content, assuming it is the same as 20 AC is just plain wrong. I see a trend that when they need something less then a 19-20 to hit, your AC sucks...might as well be 10, etc etc.

It's just a factor of our survivabiliy but one we should not neglect. 100% fort alone won't keep us up, 200+ hp's alone won't keep us up, high AC alone won't keep us up, high saves alone won't keep us up.
EVERYTHING has to be at a high level.

As a PURE nuker I don't use diplomacy, I don't use CC unless I have to. As a pure nuker it is my job to **** everything off, bunch it up and nuke the **** out of it. To survive that, I need to be tough as hell.
So far having a high AC has been a very important factor in how effective I play my character.


As correctly pointed out though, AC alone is NOT something you can depend on, especially on elite.

[Pfamily]

Oops...
I'll let ya know when I try tonight.

Dang...I hope you're wrong!

Just an update:
Exchanged IMT for GSP no problem.

[Aspenor]

Decided to update this thread with level 16 stuff instead of rewrite it.

[Deragoth]

I'll have to support the AC argument. I have been running a nuking sorcerer with armor since day 1, MUCH before people ever considered its viability.

While a mid 40's or 50 AC won't protect you against a lot of elite content, assuming it is the same as 20 AC is just plain wrong. I see a trend that when they need something less then a 19-20 to hit, your AC sucks...might as well be 10, etc etc.

It's just a factor of our survivabiliy but one we should not neglect. 100&#37; fort alone won't keep us up, 200+ hp's alone won't keep us up, high AC alone won't keep us up, high saves alone won't keep us up.
EVERYTHING has to be at a high level.

As a PURE nuker I don't use diplomacy, I don't use CC unless I have to. As a pure nuker it is my job to **** everything off, bunch it up and nuke the **** out of it. To survive that, I need to be tough as hell.
So far having a high AC has been a very important factor in how effective I play my character.


As correctly pointed out though, AC alone is NOT something you can depend on, especially on elite. You bring up a good point. Playstyle dictates what makes a build effective. I'm a heavy twitch player (long-time FPS player with some organized competition), so of course I don't see a lot of value in AC when I could be equipping various immunities and undispellable resists in its place.

[dragonspeake]

Is diplomacy worth it?

[Aspenor]

Is diplomacy worth it?

Worth it?? Worth what? What are you going to use instead?

Yes, it's worth it.

[Ridag]

Worth it?? Worth what? What are you going to use instead?

Yes, it's worth it.

To be fair here Asp, it really can come down to playstyle.

Personally I have done just fine without diplo on my sorc (who was built long before diplo was useful), and have used it to great effect on other characters.

I like to keep Concentration and UMD maxed, enough points into tumble to keep a positive modifier and the rest in jump. If I cannot handle the agro, I don't agro it.

[Aspenor]

To be fair here Asp, it really can come down to playstyle.

Personally I have done just fine without diplo on my sorc (who was built long before diplo was useful), and have used it to great effect on other characters.

I like to keep Concentration and UMD maxed, enough points into tumble to keep a positive modifier and the rest in jump. If I cannot handle the agro, I don't agro it.

Not sure why you would bother with jump.

Jump has an effective cap of 40. You can achieve this with a jump spell and a pair of jump +10 boots, which both stack.

And yes, jump really is effectively capped at 40. You don't jump any higher with a 55 jump than with a 40 jump. The marginal benefit decreases so fast that it's not worth having more than 40 jump.

Additionally, well-used diplomacy can be indispensable for a sorcerer, IMHO. I can go through full quests with well-used diplomacy never getting hit more than a few times, because as soon as something gets close, I tell it to attack something else. Wearing my item, I rarely fail.

[Ridag]

Not sure why you would bother with jump.

Jump has an effective cap of 40. You can achieve this with a jump spell and a pair of jump +10 boots, which both stack.

And yes, jump really is effectively capped at 40. You don't jump any higher with a 55 jump than with a 40 jump. The marginal benefit decreases so fast that it's not worth having more than 40 jump.

Additionally, well-used diplomacy can be indispensable for a sorcerer, IMHO. I can go through full quests with well-used diplomacy never getting hit more than a few times, because as soon as something gets close, I tell it to attack something else. Wearing my item, I rarely fail.

Well...

1. I like to hit the jump cap without an item.

2. I like to be able to get my butt off the ground if I am dispelled.

3. I can go through a full quest without ever using diplo and never get hit more then a few times.

4. Not only do I not want to have to dedicate an item slot to jump, I really do not want to dedicate an item slot to diplo.

5. I've honestly never had a situation where I needed to shed agro. If I have agro I want it.

6. I write "diplomacy" on my fireballs.

7. Agro management skill are not that hard to learn.

8. Diplo would take up yet *another* hotkey.

9. Some day the jump cap will be raised and you will all be very very sorry.

10. I like pie.

There you go. All perfectly explained.

Like I said it all comes down to personal choices and playstyles. We cannot all be clones, how would that be any fun? :D

So you keep on "talking" to the mobs, I'll still be twitching around blasting. :p

[Aspenor]

W
9. Some day the jump cap will be raised and you will all be very very sorry.


I'm fine with all that, except this one, because they won't remove the cap.

The cap is there to prevent people with 80 jump from getting to places they're not supposed to with jumping, due to quest design.

[Ridag]

I'm fine with all that, except this one, because they won't remove the cap.

The cap is there to prevent people with 80 jump from getting to places they're not supposed to with jumping, due to quest design.

I did not say the cap would be removed, just that it would be raised. Very large difference there, I would really like to see the cap at 50 or even 60. If it could possibly be done without breaking anything currently in the game. Or even capped differently on an instance by instance basis if it were to break something major in a quest.

[DoctorLove]

Started a sorc using most of this template (and that from pt 1 of the guide) and came across some problems with the enhancements you have listed here.

I took Energy of the Dragon Blooded (cost 1 pt), Sorcerer's Charisma (2 pts), Elemental Manipulation I (1 pt), Force Manipulation (1 pt), and Sorcerer's Concentration (1 pt). That's a total of 6 pts, right?

Well the problem is that on your enhancements list the closest feasible enhancements I could take would be Lineage of Force and Lineage of Elements, but both of these require 7 points spent, and I only have 6 points spent. There seems to be another gap after that because the next two closest possible Enhancements are Elemental Manipulation II and Sorcerer's Concentration II, but they both require 10 points spent.

Am I missing something? Any help appreciated!

[BrotherAsmodi]

Decided to update this thread with level 16 stuff instead of rewrite it.

Are you going to update the InstaKill for post Mod6 with lvl16 stuff?

[Aspenor]

Are you going to update the InstaKill for post Mod6 with lvl16 stuff?

Um, I guess I can, if you request it shall be done...I'll do it one day when I'm bored at work.

[techguru]

Thanks to everyone for the good information..

[techguru]

have you not been board at work yet ;-) waiting on that insta kill update

[miceelf88]

I finally rolled a sorc and went this route. Just up to level 4, and so far so good.

One question that might be useful for newbs or folks like me who are new to the caster game. What kind of gear setup should we be aiming for- both at low and mid-levels, at higher levels (without raid gear), and including raid gear?

That's the one thing that would make this more user friendly for me, but don't get me wrong, I love it already.

[Yaga_Nub]

I finally rolled a sorc and went this route. Just up to level 4, and so far so good.

One question that might be useful for newbs or folks like me who are new to the caster game. What kind of gear setup should we be aiming for- both at low and mid-levels, at higher levels (without raid gear), and including raid gear?

That's the one thing that would make this more user friendly for me, but don't get me wrong, I love it already.

Aspenor doesn't use equipment. He runs around naked so he feels more in tune with the environment and has that light, fresh feeling.

[Aspenor]

I finally rolled a sorc and went this route. Just up to level 4, and so far so good.

One question that might be useful for newbs or folks like me who are new to the caster game. What kind of gear setup should we be aiming for- both at low and mid-levels, at higher levels (without raid gear), and including raid gear?

That's the one thing that would make this more user friendly for me, but don't get me wrong, I love it already.

Useful lowbie twink gear:
Greater Potency items for every even level from 2-12, for that extra punch in your DPS spells.
STK ring (everybody loves this item)
ML:4 Fearsome Robe
Charisma items for all levels, preferably race required to get lower minimum levels on the gear (your UMD should be sufficient)
Scepters of Power for low and mid levels.
Fortification items, Light, Moderate, and Heavy, with no other effect on the item

[miceelf88]

When you say STK ring, you mean the ring of feathers? Or something else?

But thanks for the lowbie list. That helps.

Currently I have a power trinket and am using a potency item and an ice lore (for lack of anything else and to help with niacs) in dual-wielding.

Got the fort item and the charisma cloak. No fearsome robe yet. So far just spearblock (which actually is pretty handy, in my experience in the kobold type quests).

[Aspenor]

When you say STK ring, you mean the ring of feathers? Or something else?

But thanks for the lowbie list. That helps.

Currently I have a power trinket and am using a potency item and an ice lore (for lack of anything else and to help with niacs) in dual-wielding.

Got the fort item and the charisma cloak. No fearsome robe yet. So far just spearblock (which actually is pretty handy, in my experience in the kobold type quests).

Yes I meant the Ring of Feathers.

[Varis]

the early levels for a nuker are very important, more so then any amount of gear you might have.

You learn how to move and fight as a nuker

Float like butterfly, sting like nuke =)

[miceelf88]

Am mainly soloing thus far until I get comfortable. Between charming and the damage stuff, I am doing okay, but the catacombs are a challenge. I Do find that I run out of SP in some of the longer quests, and still am taking too long to target stuff/having stuff jump out the way of the scorching and niac's rays.

[Aspenor]

found this relic...bumping. will edit.

[Lifespawn]

when you wrote this extend wasn't nessecary you could stack walls and things would die i think extend is now a must have for a nuker displacment haste Rage are all spells that extend is good for and you use often that mt or imt isn't going to help all that much.

If that 85 sp is what would save u drink a mana pot and have 4-5x that ammount but you can't use a consumable to make a spell last longer.


Extend>mt or imt at this point in the game imo.

[Aspenor]

when you wrote this extend wasn't nessecary you could stack walls and things would die i think extend is now a must have for a nuker displacment haste Rage are all spells that extend is good for and you use often that mt or imt isn't going to help all that much.

If that 85 sp is what would save u drink a mana pot and have 4-5x that ammount but you can't use a consumable to make a spell last longer.


Extend>mt or imt at this point in the game imo.

in fact, I'm planning on centralizing all these posts, and updating them. I shall make The Sorcerer's Handbook