My Barb...

[BUpcott]

Just wanted to get some thoughts and see what people think...
He will mainly be using Falchions, and will have a bunch of good D-Axes and Shield if the situation calls for it. The enhancements are not set in stone either they will most likely be changed around.


Cruor
Level 14 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(14 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 258

BAB: 14/14/19/24
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 7
Will: 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 16 19
Dexterity 15 16
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 15 16
Charisma 6 6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1

Ending
Base Skills
Skills (Level 14)
Balance 11
Jump 20
Tumble 11


Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge

Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility

Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR

Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack

Level 8 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR

Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Critical Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
EEnhancement: Barbarian Willpower II
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II

[Blind_Skwerl]

Ok, I have never run a barb before, so I am curious... why did you raise your wisdom up? I thought it was your con that affects your rage?

[BUpcott]

Ok, I have never run a barb before, so I am curious... why did you raise your wisdom up? I thought it was your con that affects your rage?

Con does effect Rage (18sec + 6*Con mod). Wisdom is raised for Will saves and so as not to be another min/max dwarf barb running around. But a very honest question to ask.

[Shade]

Wants an insane will save I guess.

My barb started 10 wis. Has 29 will save now with max dwarf spell resist, no will rage.
Your, with the same gear witll be 33.. heh. 29 is enough to only fail on a roll of 1 except vs elite raid bosses and double focus sorcs in pvp (in which case youll fail on a 2, save on a 3)

Tho I don't have the head of good fortune, so it could be 31, or 35 for you.

My thoughts on your build:
Average. Very average. Groups will not notice you doing anything notable, youll just blend in with the crowd, youll take a bit more damage then tank barbs, and youll dish out a fair bit less then DPS ones. But hey you'll probably never fail a will.

[bigj1608]

in this case, even though you stated you are not tryin to make a min/max barb, i would reccomend max str, simple because any paladin/fighter/barb should max their str because their primary role is killing things and this is necessary to do so effectively.. killing should be priority, especially as a barb.. i would do this:

18 str
12 dex
18 con
8 int
10 wis
8 cha

skills:
jump
tumble
balance

feats:
stunning blow
toughness
power attack
imp crit slash
power crit slash

will save:
4 base
5 resist item
4 ghero
5 against spells with dwarf enhancemnents
3 will save mod with 5 item/1 tome
makes a 21 without rage
could easily be a 34+ raged with the right enhancements. i'd say that's plenty..

you're missing out on 12 seconds of rage, 20 end-game hp, a fort save, 1 damage, 1 to hit, 1 to jump/swim skills by not going 18 str/con

also, 18 con isnt max.. so you wont be completely min/max

hp:
20 base
10 argo favor
30 gfalse life
168 14 barb
126 (28 con, reasonable? 18, 3 barb enhancement, 2 dwarf enhancement, 5 item - could be 30 with 6 item/1 tome, but we'll say 28)
16 toughness
100 possible from enhancements

makes a possible standing 470 hp, even more raged.. could easily go to 540+ raged, which is pretty up there i'd say.. but your build, just my suggestions.. this is what i am doing now.. enjoying it at level 6 so far

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Ok, coupla things Im seeing.

Get rid of armour mastery, useless for a barb who is double raging...not needed.

Second max STR, and CON. Take a lil less WIS, at endgame your rage makes your will save almost untouchable, and as a dwarf you already get some nice bonuses to spells.

I also dont see sprint boost in there. You GOTTA take at least first tier sprint boost. If only to run around with haste, hit it and see how fast a dwarfs legs can actually go. No, seriously, sprint boost is awesome...you can move so fast the game cant keep up...traps dont go off, mobs dont react...you need sprint boost.

I dont use damage reduction boosts either, dont like clickies and timers...so Id take them out.

And critical rage I??? Wheres Crit Rage II????? You cannot build a barb without crit rage II....you really cant..its the bread and butter of the class.

You're a barbarian, you need all the HP's you can get, and you need to put out as much damage as you can. Max them both.

BUT! That said, thats what every barbarian does...so if you want to go a different route good luck to ya.

EDIT; And Bigj's build is awesome..that would blow the socks offa people. Mines is very similar, with 8 WIS, 19 +1 CON Tome, 12 DEX and 18STR to start.

EDITEDIT; The thing about Barbs is they are real easy to min/max. They are really the one class that really benifits from min/max'ing. Other classes by doing so you weaken one aspect or another, barbarians you dont. Sure having a 16 WIS to start is nice, really nice, but you're a damage dealer/damage soaker-upper, thats what you do...nothing else...so to do this job you need to do it the best. Meaning min/max'ing as a barbarian is really the only way to go to excell in your class.

[Muirtach]

So my Spring attacking Barb, who started at 14, 16,14,8,14,8 is gimped?

Funny he's done more than most.

[BUpcott]

My thoughts on your build:
Average. Very average. Groups will not notice you doing anything notable, youll just blend in with the crowd, youll take a bit more damage then tank barbs, and youll dish out a fair bit less then DPS ones. But hey you'll probably never fail a will.

You have to be kidding. My DPS will be fine since I will be critting more often then others. My dmg intake will be limited since I will be wearing +4 Fearsome BP. And you are right I won`t fail a will save.

[BUpcott]

i would reccomend max str, simple because any paladin/fighter/barb should max their str because their primary role is killing things and this is necessary to do so effectively.

How is having a 18 str mandatory for killing things. My pally started with a 16 and ate a +1 tome and he kills things just fine.

.
killing should be priority, especially as a barb.. i would do this:

18 str
12 dex
18 con
8 int
10 wis
8 cha

You just turned him into a min/max build. And yes i know that 18 is not max but then again pi isn't 3.14, now is it.



feats:
stunning blow
toughness
power attack
imp crit slash
power crit slash

Where's spring attack?!?


.. but your build, just my suggestions.. this is what i am doing now.. enjoying it at level 6 so far

I do like the input; and more I appreciate that you understand the above.

[BUpcott]

Second max STR, and CON. Take a lil less WIS, at endgame your rage makes your will save almost untouchable, and as a dwarf you already get some nice bonuses to spells.
I think you missed the part about not wanting to make another cookie cut mon/max build.


I also dont see sprint boost in there. You GOTTA take at least first tier sprint boost. If only to run around with haste, hit it and see how fast a dwarfs legs can actually go. No, seriously, sprint boost is awesome...you can move so fast the game cant keep up...traps dont go off, mobs dont react...you need sprint boost.
I understand it is cool but certainly not needed; i rather take dwarf tactics over that.


And critical rage I??? Wheres Crit Rage II????? You cannot build a barb without crit rage II....you really cant..its the bread and butter of the class.

With just one level my crit range will be 14-20, I don't see the need to spend 4 APs for 13-20 if i benefit from something else AP wise


Sure having a 16 WIS to start is nice, really nice, but you're a damage dealer/damage soaker-upper, thats what you do...nothing else...so to do this job you need to do it the best. Meaning min/max'ing as a barbarian is really the only way to go to excell in your class.

I think you are mistaken a lil bit; a fighter is there to soak up dmg hence why they get agro and have the higher AC then a barbarian cleans up. Plus with Hvy Fort, DR and Fearsome my dmg taken vs dmg put out should work out fine.

[Gulva]

With just one level my crit range will be 14-20, I don't see the need to spend 4 APs for 13-20 if i benefit from something else AP wise
lol well with that statement your build should suit you just fine. :)

[Muirtach]

lol well with that statement your build should suit you just fine. :)

yeah being based off of and possible more efficient (barely) than the barbarian who has done more in game than you is weak.

because the "f" is silent STU

[Taur]

Where's spring attack?!?

Spring attack on a barbarian is completely unnecessary. your str bonus boosts your to hit so high when raged that the -4 to hit movement penalty gets lost in the noise.

I understand what you're trying to do with the points in wisdom and it's a good idea in theory. however, with the will rage enhancement, you can have well over a 20 will save at 14. I understand you don't want a min-max build but why would you gimp your toon in the process. Hell, put the points in Cha; they'll be just as wasted there.

personally i'd put those extra stat points in dex and con as suggested before or even int for the skill points. not because it's what everyone else is doing, but because it will make you a more efficient killing machine. That is, after all, what a barb is.

[BUpcott]

Spring attack on a barbarian is completely unnecessary. your str bonus boosts your to hit so high when raged that the -4 to hit movement penalty gets lost in the noise.

I understand what you're trying to do with the points in wisdom and it's a good idea in theory. however, with the will rage enhancement, you can have well over a 20 will save at 14. I understand you don't want a min-max build but why would you gimp your toon in the process. Hell, put the points in Cha; they'll be just as wasted there.

personally i'd put those extra stat points in dex and con as suggested before or even int for the skill points. not because it's what everyone else is doing, but because it will make you a more efficient killing machine. That is, after all, what a barb is.

How is he gimped? 16 vs 18 is only -1 to my attack; I could apply your same reasoning for spring attack to starting with a str of 16.

[Shade]

How is he gimped? 16 vs 18 is only -1 to my attack; I could apply your same reasoning for spring attack to starting with a str of 16.

Not sure why you don't get it. But like many posters have said, attack score is not that important for a barbarian. It's just too easy to get up high enough without wasting feats and even with all the penaltys you can think of.

Mine has no wep focus, nothing special.. And his attack can reach +57. You need about a +39 to hit every mob in the game 95% of the time.

Anyways like I said your build is fine. Average in all ways and won't excel or suck in any situation. If thats what your after then you've done fine. You might outdamage some poorly built fighters, but like it or not you'll be miles behind a max DPS barbarian.

[BUpcott]

Not sure why you don't get it. But like many posters have said, attack score is not that important for a barbarian.

I am pretty sure I do get it; considering I am saying that starting with 16 Str rather than 18 isn't going to make a significant difference.

[bigj1608]

all i see here is someone that posted a barb build that they would like to play but won't change to save the world.. this is your preference, and factual numbers say a different build would be better served as the typical barb, so unless you tell us exactly what you hope to do with this barb, down to the angle you swing your weapon and at what artery, no one is going to be able to help you and you won't change a thing

and to be honest, i am the same way.. i have never listened to anyone in my life except one person about one feat about one ranger i made.. and i have posted a lot.. i am too stubborn and consider myself too knowledgeable to even slightly consider what others have done.. my goal is to make the best possible build i can for whatever goal i am trying to achieve.. so, with that said, i'd suggest that you close this thread, make your barb, and have fun.. because you seem to be the same way

[Roguewiz]

Maxing strength is a waste of points. You are paying a premium to get, +1 to hit and +1dmg? It is, in all honesty, a waste. 16 Strength is more than adequate to get you to where you need to be.

16 Str
+3 Level increase
+6 Item
+2 Rage Potion
+7 Rage (with power rage 3)

34 Strength raging (as opposed to 37 str raging with Power Rage IV and 18 starting strength)

Her to hit would be:

While Raging and Rage potion
+12 Strength Mod
+14 BAB
+5 Falchion
+32 to hit, without any other buffs
-5 Power attack
+27 to hit

Bonus damage per hit would be:
+18 from strength (+12 str mod x 1.5)
+5 Weapon enhancement
+10 Power attack
+33 Damage per hit


These mods and stats are more than adequate to perform the "killing" functions of a barbarian. Even then, argueably, when grouped with a another "DPS" toon, it will all come down to hit will get the final hit in. So no, this toon is not gimped. It would be gimped if it was finesse :)

< check my math please >

[Blazer]

I don't think the "gimped" nature of this character was strictly revolving around the 16 vs 18 STR arguement. Rather, it was on spending 3 feats on the Spring Attack line and using falchions rather than the THF line and using greataxes. At least, that's how I took it.

[Roguewiz]

I would agree that Spring Attack wouldn't be a good idea. It is another annoying click you gotta use in combat.

With a Falchion, you'll crit more often, with a Great Axe, you'll have nice high damage crits.

(I know the damage of the weapon and strength damage count towards the crit damage of the weapon, what about the enhancement bonus of the weapon?)
Falchion: 2d4, 18-20/x2 Crit = Max hit with her build = 92 dmg, 14-20/x2 Crit (i think)
Great Axe: 1d12, 20/x3 Crit = Max hit with her build = 186 dmg, 18-20/x3 Crit (i think)

Personally, I'd still go Great Axe. The damage is so much better.

<again, check math please>

[Blazer]

I would agree that Spring Attack wouldn't be a good idea. It is another annoying click you gotta use in combat.

No click for SA, it just means you don't suffer that -4 penalty to attack while moving. It's a passive feat.

[Roguewiz]

No click for SA, it just means you don't suffer that -4 penalty to attack while moving. It's a passive feat.

Ah, similiar to shot on the run...Got it :)

Then yea, going the entire progression to get spring attack is a waste. Especially if you have a good static group with a crowd control sorcerer =p

[BUpcott]

I don't think the "gimped" nature of this character was strictly revolving around the 16 vs 18 STR arguement. Rather, it was on spending 3 feats on the Spring Attack line and using falchions rather than the THF line and using greataxes. At least, that's how I took it.

Not all that familiar with the THF feats but don't they just increase the dmg of glancing blows?

[Blazer]

Not all that familiar with the THF feats but don't they just increase the dmg of glancing blows?

They do add a bit more damage when using a 2hander, but yes, they also increase glancing blow damage, which can add up to an additional 20-25 damage on the 1st and 4th swings (via GTHF) to all mobs in your arc. Consistent AOE melee damage. Shade posted a thread about it, lemme see if I can find it.

EDIT: Here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=117553) it is.

[BUpcott]

Falchion: 2d4, 18-20/x2 Crit = Max hit with her build = 92 dmg, 14-20/x2 Crit (i think)
Great Axe: 1d12, 20/x3 Crit = Max hit with her build = 186 dmg, 17-20/x3 Crit (i think)

math looks right with power crit 2 a falchion becomes 13-20 is the only thing that looks off.

[Blazer]

math looks right with power crit 2 a falchion becomes 13-20 is the only thing that looks off.

Yes, but you said you're only going PC I. And the greataxe is only 18-20 with PC I. 20/x3, 19-20 with Improved Critical, 18-20 with the first rage crit enhancement, 17-20 with the 2nd tier.

[BUpcott]

Yes, but you said you're only going PC I.

Yea (tho I am not set on enhancement as they are pretty easy to change around to try different things). Only pointed it though because he had GAs at 17-20.

Thanks for the link too blazer

[Blazer]

Yea (tho I am not set on enhancement as they are pretty easy to change around to try different things). Only pointed it though because he had GAs at 17-20.

Thanks for the link too blazer

Yeah, he had GAs incorrectly listed. NP.

[Roguewiz]

Yea (tho I am not set on enhancement as they are pretty easy to change around to try different things). Only pointed it though because he had GAs at 17-20.

Thanks for the link too blazer

Typo on my part ;)

[Sydril]

Wants an insane will save I guess.

My barb started 10 wis. Has 29 will save now with max dwarf spell resist, no will rage.


Could someone elaborate on how this is possible with a pure barb?

[BUpcott]

Could someone elaborate on how this is possible with a pure barb?

This being from another post and the will only being at 18 buffed up I am curious too....


Why you don't need toughness:
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8675/screenshot01530ku1.jpg
(my build starts 16 con and no toughness and does not max the con enhancements)

[mgoldb2]

This being from another post and the will only being at 18 buffed up I am curious too....

He is including a few things that won’t show up on that stat sheet. +4 intolerable will don’t show up on stat sheet because it specific to enchantment but how many will saves have you made that was not from an enchantment?

There another +2 from being dwarf that won’t show up on that stat sheet since it against all spell effects. How many will saves have you made that was not a spell effect?

In that pic he wa not using his +5 wis item. That another +3.

He also properly took that pic before he got a head of good fortune or was not using it in that pic which another +2.

And there you got 18+4+2+3+2=29 will save

(shade can correct me if am wrong where he got the numbers from but am pretty certain that where the 29 come from)

[BUpcott]

He is including a few things that won’t show up on that stat sheet. +4 intolerable will don’t show up on stat sheet because it specific to enchantment but how many will saves have you made that was not from an enchantment?

There another +2 from being dwarf that won’t show up on that stat sheet since it against all spell effects. How many will saves have you made that was not a spell effect?

In that pic he not was using his +5 wis item. That another +3.

He also properly took that pic before he got a head of good fortune or was not using it in that pic which another +2.

And there you got 18+4+2+3+2=29 will save

(shade can correct me if am wrong where he got the numbers from but am pretty certain that where the 29 come from)

I know about the dwaven spell effect save; he said he didn't have the head of good fortune yet either. However those outta the way does he just throw on +5 wis when he is about to make a will save. I don't doubt that he can get up to 29 just curious on how he maintains it.

[sigtrent]

If you can think of a possible will save bonus... shade is probably including it in his calculation.

[BUpcott]

Update

Capped, and loving it. Crits on 13-20 for min 90 pts. Alright so its not 150 like a great axe or maul. But the amount of times I crit is generally more than a GA or Maul.
Umm other comments on the build saves are rocking.