Circe the Sea Elf: Aka Ultimate build

[spifflove]

Profile: Circe the Sea Elf (aka Ultimate build)

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This this build was insipired by my desire to build a sort of ulitmate can do everything character. A true jack of all trades, it has no weaknesses or true strengths (other than a lack of weaknesses) and can fill any roll imaginable.

Because Drow have the best stats, drow was chosen for this build.

Circe the Sea Elf

(Ultimate build)
Lv 2 Rogue. Lv 2 Paladin. Lv 10 Sorcerer.

Str 10
Dex 18 (+2 Elf)
Con 07
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 18 (+3 levels; +3 Sorcerer)


Stats after gear, and levels.

Str 14 (+4 item)
Dex 22 (+5 item)
Con 12 (+5 item)
Int 20 (+4 item)
Wis 12 (+4 item)
Cha 28 (+4 item)

Feats

Rapid Reload, Heavy Repeater, Weapon finesse, Extend, Spell focus Illusion

Enhancements -

Drow Melee Attack
Drow Melee Damage
Elf Arcane Fludity
Elf Dex
All Rogue enhancements available
Energy of the Dragon Blood



Skills -

Max UMD, DD, Search, 4 points each in jump, tumble, hide, move silently, haggle, OL.

Here is the basic Breakdown.

To hit-

8 Basic
5 dex
2 Elf Enhance
4 Greater Hero
1 Haste
1 Rage
5 Weapon
1 Rabbit Gloves - I plan on getting them, and useing a buff for either dex or str, depending on gear slot, but If I do not get them, take this out of the equasion)
-------
+ 27

Withe tensors transformation, it will be even better still.

Damage

0 Str
2 Elf Enhancement
1 Rage
5 Weapon
-------
+ 8. Obviously, must rely on stat damagers and curse spewers, and if all else fails- offensive spells.
Backstab adds +1d6 and +2 for rogue backstab enhancement. This bonus will happen alot d/t tanks doing more dps.

AC --

15 - + 5 Mitheral Chain Shirt (dex included)
7 - + 5 Mitheral Heavy Sheild
2 - Chaos Guards
2 - Invaders Ring
4 - + 4 protection Ring
1 - Haste
10 - Basic Ac
2-paladin [Edit 1 paladin]
-------
[42 AC]. Good but will have to wait for main tanks to grab aggro before attacking. (basically using CC until then)

Saves --
+5 to all saves (Divine favor)
+1 to all saves (Divine favor enhancement)
+3 to all saves (mummy bat)
con 15 dex 15 Wis 16

HP --

40 - Lv 10 Sorcerer
20 - Lv 2 Paladin
20 - Heroic Durability
28 - Con
12- Rogue
20 - Improved False Life Belt
-------
140 Hp

Mana --A cool 1000.

Spells
Level 1- Hypnotism, shield, magic missle, niacs
Level 2- Web, Hypnotic pattern, Scortching ray, Blur [edit: swap web for knock eventually]
Level 3- Haste, Lightning bolt, Protection from Energy
Level 4- Solid fog, PK [edit: or firewall]
Level 5- Cloudkill

Optional equipment: stack of 100 walls of fire scrolls, 100 ice storm scrolls, 20 raise dead scrolls, 100 heal scrolls
[edit: alas a great deal of these scrolls have been nerfed. But there are other good options out there]
Ok flame away!

edit: Alternately go the two weapon fighting line

[spifflove]

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Spiff,

Honesty man... it looks good but..

It is just annother build that abuses rogue and paladin levels.

Any build can look good abuseing the rogue and paladin levels.

I could take any race, any base class, and any feat set thats not totally insane... toss some tomes and high end gear on it...

And make it look good with 2 levels of rogue and paladin thrown in there.

Here is my thought about the situation...

You tell me from a roleplaying prespective.. why a Drow, would have not only Paladin Levels, but also Rogue levels, and then... to top it off sorc levels... then use heavy repeaters, illusion spells and lightning bolts.

So sure. On paper it looks absolutely wonderful..

But come on... why in the world would this character ever come about?

Ya know, I might be crazy... and look at things a bit differently... but for me... this all makes sence..

Maybe I just play the game for different reasons that others do.

And this is why, I really do not like the paladin rogue builds. They simply do not make sence.

Gang

PS

I think the DM's made some funny comment about Halfling Paladin, Barb shiurken specialists.

Isn't a Drow Pali / Rogue / Sorc heavy repeating, illusion specialist just as rediclous?

Think about it.

[spifflove]

Originally Posted by tihocan
Went through it quickly and just two remarks:
- 2 levels of Paladin only give you +1 AC
/begin mad bombadier:
And +4/+5 to all his saves (from Base CHA at beginning and end build)

[spifflove]

Went through it quickly and just two remarks:
- 2 levels of Paladin only give you +1 AC
- some people found out that rapid reload does not affect a repeater's speed

[spifflove]

Yes, I know.. I like to be difficult sometimes...

But like I said... I could make a Str based warforged ranger look unstoppable, with a level of rogue, and 2 pally levels... etc..

/shrug...

Maybe I am the only one who thinks this though...

Gang

[spifflove]

LOL you two are like siskel and ebert of the character building world at the moment. Fun to read.

All around a good effort but there are issues...

I see HP as the builds weakness. It is pretty lacking and much of what you do have is pretty item dependent for a character that will need to pack a lot of items to support all thier different hats. You didn't work opening locks in there, if you are roguing folks will want that from you, and knock scrolls only cut it for a very short time at lower levels.

I don't think you have enough enhancment points to buy eveyrthing you note, need to run that through the character builder and check it out.

I'd go firewall spell, solid fog scroll. You are kind of weak for a damage casting (no ehnamcnents). And while you can heal it's kind of limited..

Still, I think its a good build for an adventerous soul.

[spifflove]

Your spot on, Gangwulfe. Take Rogue x / Paladin x / X and it looks impressive. Monk comes around and I can assure you we will be seeing plenty of Monk x / Paladin x builds out there.

This build is an interesting one. I take it the 18 Dex is to take full advantage of the Reflex saves then? The 8 wisdom means you will be sucking wind on locks, but with knock in there (and I assumed knock was in there) you should not have an issue there either. But overall you are just putting out high saves and walking away. Its a nice threeway, but ultimate may be a tad over inflated in the name.

Some of my favorite builds I have not used yet are things that do just what this does, mix rogue and / or Paladin. A Wizard 5 / Fighter 4 / Paladin 3 for buffs, some offense, great saves, weapon specialization, and various immunities really makes that appealing. Sorcerer 8 / Paladin 3 / Rogue 3 is another, just shy of what you are doing there, but with more Sneak Attack dmg and the potential to really maximize those skills at 14th level.

Its true, though, your build does provide some real nice options there, and the recent discusions of Sorc / Paladin mixes has me contemplating one of my own lately.Gang

[spifflove]

Originally Posted by Gangwulfe
You tell me from a roleplaying prespective.. why a Drow, would have not only Paladin Levels, but also Rogue levels, and then... to top it off sorc levels... then use heavy repeaters, illusion spells and lightning bolts.

So sure. On paper it looks absolutely wonderful..

But come on... why in the world would this character ever come about?
/end gang
/begin zorn
You have to stop thinking about paladins as holy warriors and rogues as thieves. Think out of the box a bit. I like to think of rogue/pallys as bounty hunters. the bad guys aren't going to just let you walk through the front door, you've got to be sneaky about it. And with Ebberon being a high magic world, I could see an arcane caster as a bounty hunter. What better way to catch a criminal than a Hold Person spell

He could have been an arcane trickster that switched sides and works for the good guys now. Either because he had a change of heart or maybe he got caught and has to do it.

A lone drow, or any creature for that matter, has to be prety recoursefull to survive out in the jungle. Having all that raw magical energy at the tip of your finger is nice but it's not enough. The rogue and pally bonuses(saves and stealth) could have come from surviving years alone in the wilderness.

I've played a Troglodyte Shaman, a ninja, a zombie, a bounty hunter, etc... In a fantasy world like DDO you should be able to come up with a rational explanation for any character build.

[spifflove]

Believe me, there is a "rational" reason why one in a million DROW might be a Pally / Rogue / Sorc.

But, like I said before.. EVERY Drow?

Come on now...

It is just a bit overdone here people...

Gang

[spifflove]

Well Circe is a Sea Elf not a Drow. If I could figure out how to post pictures I would post one to prove it.

Her bio says "Not many of us left, ony Hippolyta, Medusa and myself. We don't like to talk about Medusa."

If someone wanted a build of the same nature but did not want to "abuse" paladin and rogue levels, then swaping paladin for fighter and sorcerer for wizard would work at the expense of saving throws. that would give you more stat points as well for intelligence of 20 or perhaps 6 points into con, or 3 in strength and 3 in con.

[spifflove]

Originally Posted by sigtrent
LOL you two are like siskel and ebert of the character building world at the moment. Fun to read.

All around a good effort but there are issues...

I see HP as the builds weakness. It is pretty lacking and much of what you do have is pretty item dependent for a character that will need to pack a lot of items to support all thier different hats. You didn't work opening locks in there, if you are roguing folks will want that from you, and knock scrolls only cut it for a very short time at lower levels.

I don't think you have enough enhancment points to buy eveyrthing you note, need to run that through the character builder and check it out.

I'd go firewall spell, solid fog scroll. You are kind of weak for a damage casting (no ehnamcnents). And while you can heal it's kind of limited..

Still, I think its a good build for an adventerous soul.
/end sigtrent

/begin spiff
Low ty for 2 thumbs up! I actually think your fighter mage is one of the best Sigtrent although I would probably drop the fighter level and just have one level of rogue. [In fact that is what I did for Hippolyta]

Hp are a weakness in all my builds /shrug, except my Maldinized cannonball barbarian.

I edited to reflect swaping out for knock at higher levels.

The build depends on extra equipment yes, and loot runs. Mainly firewall is more effective as a wizard spell d/t long cooldowns and the availability of scrolls. Basically do you want to draw agro to a 7 con character or do you want to lay down a solid fog?

[spifflove]

I agree with you mostly Gang, but in DDO I base my "character story" on my end character rather than the progressing character. In PnP you have a lot of good reasons to change class, but in DDO rather than thinking "oh, my Rogue became a Paladin, then a Sorceror, then a Rogue again" I think in terms of the final build and what the final build represents. I agree that Paladin/ Rogue builds are hard to make fit from a RP perspective but options are a bounty hunter as mentioned above or a reformed pit fighter/ criminal or a holy crusader that needs trap skills when retrieving the lost holy relics from ancient tombs.

When splashing levels of a class I don't even think of that class as being a part of the character so much as the abilties they gain from it being a part of a character. That's why I prefer Epic levels and custom classes to the standard 1-20 level progression, too. There's a lot more flexibility. What if I want to play a Woodsman that lives in the forest and uses a 2-handed axe (he likes cutting trees!), it's kind of hard to do under DnD rules, I guess it'd involve taking levels of Fighter and Ranger but then he picks up abilties that I'd prefer to ignore like Bow Strength. And if you analyse it from a class point of view "oh he was a ranger but now he fights in the army" doesn't match up with the representation I want.

Anyway, though, characters can have a good storyline with odd class mixes and sometimes the class progression gets in the way of an otherwise strong character idea. DnD is an awesome system, but it is still limited, especially in DDO where you can't negotiate with the DM.

[spifflove]

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Dex is for reflex saves and for weapon finese and ranged and AC. There are many layers of synergy.

I decided to post since I discovered that people usually figure these builds out eventually then hog all the glory. Also so Gangwulf could flame me I owed him that.
/end spiff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalanth
Your spot on, Gangwulfe. Take Rogue x / Paladin x / X and it looks impressive. Monk comes around and I can assure you we will be seeing plenty of Monk x / Paladin x builds out there.

This build is an interesting one. I take it the 18 Dex is to take full advantage of the Reflex saves then? The 8 wisdom means you will be sucking wind on locks, but with knock in there (and I assumed knock was in there) you should not have an issue there either. But overall you are just putting out high saves and walking away. Its a nice threeway, but ultimate may be a tad over inflated in the name.

Some of my favorite builds I have not used yet are things that do just what this does, mix rogue and / or Paladin. A Wizard 5 / Fighter 4 / Paladin 3 for buffs, some offense, great saves, weapon specialization, and various immunities really makes that appealing. Sorcerer 8 / Paladin 3 / Rogue 3 is another, just shy of what you are doing there, but with more Sneak Attack dmg and the potential to really maximize those skills at 14th level.

Its true, though, your build does provide some real nice options there, and the recent discusions of Sorc / Paladin mixes has me contemplating one of my own lately.

[spifflove]

Naw Spiff, I did not mean it as a flame, or whatever.

I just was pointing out how many drow pali rogues variations you see theese days.

Sorry if it kinda overtook a large peice of your thread.

I did not mean it to.

Gang

PS

And um Spiff, your build has 28 points, and drow enhancmenets on it, not elven ones... so thats why I was assueming it was a drow.//
/end gang
/begin spiff

28 points for a drow = 32 baby! Why? Drow are magical ya baby ya!

edit: 28 plus 6 bonuses minus 2 penalties equals 32

[Impaqt]

THis build is a Nifty in Concept, but will fail in practice. What it boils down to is a Gimped Sorc... No High levels Spells... and the ones you do have have a poor DC. Spell pen is also terrible.

You may have a decent to hit with Tensors up.... But With 140 Hit points and a 40Isn AC you wont be standing very long.

Harsh.. maybe.. But titleing this build "Ultimate" is a joke.

[spifflove]

Originally Posted by Quartzite
... a holy crusader that needs trap skills when retrieving the lost holy relics from ancient tombs....
/end quartz

/begin zornocio
Oh, an Indiana Jones build. we need whips added to the game now

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[moorewr]

Weird. Everything is dated today, but I get massive deja vu from this - this thread is almost verbatim from the thread about this sorc/pallies in March, when I started mine...

Nice to know we don't change our opinions much. :)

ANyway, Circe was not advertised as an RP build, just an attempt to build something versatile. It's interesting, but it sure hurts to have so few sorc spells. When do you get to 10th level in Sorc? Will you be running around Giant Hold with haste as your best spell?

[Juika]

Your spells wont hit.
You will be missing your high level spells.
140HPs is a joke. Your AC is a joke. You will not survive melee content. If your primary focus is casting, why are you even aiming for AC at all? GH elite content will slap you around like a red-headed step child. Honestly... a cleric is just better off rezzing you everytime you take a dirtnap than trying to keep you healed.

The sum of your parts is worse than the individual components themselves.

[moorewr]

Well, my sorc/pally melees sometimes, especially when wall of fire gets everything headed my way - he's going to end up 12Sorc/2Pal - another standard forum build.

I run with haste/stoneskin/blur/displace/gr. heroism/barkskin. No way will my AC ever be high enough BUT DR10/- and a 60% chance of displacing a hit (displacement 50 and blur 20, statistics!) sure help keep me alive. When I melee it's to land some stat damage - I make no pretense of matching fighter dps with my swords. Whether I hang back or rough people up depends on how quickly I get hurt.

I have toughness, but my HP wont top out that high, so it's all just to de-squish me a bit. In essence my build was about being able to firewall without having to bunny hop for dear life. Flesh to Stone will have to be my top level spell -- when the level cap rises I will finally get FoD.

Paladin + nightshield + greater heroism = fantastic saves, though




Your spells wont hit.
You will be missing your high level spells.
140HPs is a joke. Your AC is a joke. You will not survive melee content. If your primary focus is casting, why are you even aiming for AC at all? GH elite content will slap you around like a red-headed step child. Honestly... a cleric is just better off rezzing you everytime you take a dirtnap than trying to keep you healed.

The sum of your parts is worse than the individual components themselves.

[sigtrent]

This is an old thread that somehow got dated today, and is missing a bunch of its posts... really wierd!

[Impaqt]

Spiff seems to be reposting it with selective comments.

[sigtrent]

Ahhh... now it makes sense... and he was posting the comments we had made himself... got it.

Interesting. It's certainly an ambitions and intersting build..

I think if there is a central problem its that the build comes up a little short in a bunch of categories. I'm no min/max guy but you need to measure up to a certain point to do a good job with a given role. This character really has 3 roles going...

Arcane Caster
Support Fighter
and Skill Rogue (which often includes healing via UMD)

I think as an Arcane he is really lacking. He can't do strong DPS. At lower levels he can get by, but in upper levels he might as well un-learn all his damage spells as they arn't going to make much of a dent in most monsters. His charisma is decent, but he is useing low level CC spells without heighten so his DC values are going to fall pretty far short of most of his casting peers. They are probably servicable, but still a bit low to be really reliable.

As a support fighter he is decent, but those really low HP are going to make life challenging. Fortunately he shouldn't pull a lot of agro and using stat damage or effect weapons can be pretty usefull to the party. No illusions of really being a tank though, its not going to work so well.

In the rogue end he is missing a strong Open Lock. Knock is ok, but due to his limited caster level and the fact many locks can not be knocked at all.. he is lacking here. His final DD and Seach numbers are.. unkown as the build isn't fully detailed in that way. They are probbably decent though. No spot, thats not fatal but its limiting. UMD is quite good though.

Overall I'm impressed he squeezed as much in here as he did. It more or less lives up to what he claims (does a lot of things decently if not especialy well).

I almost feel this build would be better as Fighter/Rogue/Bard, you end up with more skill points to work in it, and in some ways better CC options than a sorcerer has, but less SP. Less spells though.. and no quick cast, but fascinate and the song buffs are powerfull. You get more enhancemetns because you can drop fluidity, and you get more hp. Your saves take a hit, but you get a couple more feats to play with. You would have to run them side by side and see how it works out.

[moorewr]

I agree - either do more of a fighter/wizard or sorc/pally, or do as you suggest - there's only so much you can squeeze in.

Not to cross threads but I have been contemplating a bard as my next character, and I had just started looking for a "fighting bard" build. You have a lot on your plate in the build thread, but I'll bug you about it later. :)


I almost feel this build would be better as Fighter/Rogue/Bard, you end up with more skill points to work in it, and in some ways better CC options than a sorcerer has, but less SP. Less spells though.. and no quick cast, but fascinate and the song buffs are powerfull. You get more enhancemetns because you can drop fluidity, and you get more hp. Your saves take a hit, but you get a couple more feats to play with. You would have to run them side by side and see how it works out.

[Rentz]

this build seems a bit muddled to me, and i'm not a fan of finesse builds...but i'll try to be objective. Also, you should use ron's character planner and really detail a build for people and crunch some numbers so we know what you're planning to end up with. I have to basically go through and actually build your build for you here just to see some hard numbers...i guess i have too much time on my hands. :P

for one thing, you can't start with 18 cha and 18 dex..one has to be 17 - i recommend dex.

10
17 26(+ 2 drow dex + 1 rogue dex + 6 item)
8 14 (tome +6 item)
16 22 (+6 item)
8
18 30 (+3 sorc +3 levels +6 item)


there doesn't seem to be much direction, from your description. As Sig said, his offensive and cc casting will likely be lackluster as he doesn't have max caster levels. his melee and tanking ability is questionable with such a low con score and questionable DPS with repeater (i'm just not sure how effective they are end-game). i suspect he'd have trouble using stat damagers due to a low str (on elite anyways), not to mention that without TWF feats stat damagers aren't particularly effective.

I think i see what you're trying to do; you can come close to max with charisma and add illusion focus feat and then pull off some PK's, etc. this MIGHT work okay, i'm not so sure....Your best bet would likely be non-save or damage spells.

to hit:
8 BAB
8 26 dex
2 heroism
5 +5 repeater/bolts
1 haste
---
24... on the low end.. 28 would be something to shoot for.
26 with grtr hero via planar gird or friends. the scroll will be expensive.

rogue skills -
43 Search (16 (or so) ranks + 6 int + 4 grtr hero +1 enh + 3 ab + 13 search item)
39 UMD 17 ranks + 4 grtr hero + 3 cartouche + 15 Cha (enough to scroll Heal on a 1.)
46 Open Lock: 5 ranks + 13 dex + 7 tools + 13 item + 3 AB + 1 enh + 4 grtr hero
47 Disable device : (13 (or so) DD ranks +6 int + 4 grtr hero + 1 enh + 3 AB + 7 tools + 13 DD item
15 concentration ranks

Positives:
---------
evasion with a great reflex save
decent fort and will save.
damage mitigation from stoneskin and displacement
offense from firewall, scorch ray, cone of cold, repeater, shortswords + rapiers
little to no arcane failure
decent non-shield ac (around 40)
decent rogue skills, but not end game elite i don't think.
fantastic UMD - can scroll any divine scroll without fail.

Negetives:
-----------
relatively low hit points. even with a toughness feat instead of SF: illusion and a +6 con item bring you to 14 con: 151 hitpoints before false life spell and item. so 200 assuming the spell and grtr false life item. keep the heal scrolls handy.

not max caster levels and no Heighten for PK.
could use Enervate in conjunction with phantasmal killer... a bit mana intensive though. 1176 spell points to work with, assuming POP X.
rogue skills aren't quite high enough for elite levels, are they? could sacrifice some concentration skills for a few more, possibly.

I guess this is a variation of a Wizard Rogue trading max rogue skills, spells, and caster levels/effectiveness for evasion and high saves.

I think you'd be better off switching to 1 rogue/13 wizard so you can simply max Int and Dex, and have some more points left over for Con. you'd have a great wizard rogue who's more effective with spells and can still shoot the repeater.
however, the build has just enough to-hit, spells, and rogue levels to be just fine except on some elite levels where your rogue abilities may not be enough.

if equipped properly, you can be a very good backup healer (heal scrolls), secondary caster (probably not a main caster, though), and a reasonable facsimile of a rogue. you take the place of a rogue or bard in a quest, keeping everyone hasted and blurred, and even displacing the tanks in tough fights.

"ultimate" might be a stretch. :P an "ultimate" build should be incredibly self-sufficient...i'm not sure you have enough DPS to call this build 'ultimate'... it's fairly survivable, though, with evasion, Stoneskin, Displace, 40 AC, and Heal scrolls.

[sigtrent]

Remember spell saving throws do not directly depend on caster level.. the formula is..

10 + Level of SPELL + Prime Requisite bonus + feats/enhancments/items bonus

So his PK is 10 + 4 + 10 + 1 = 25 (which is around 3-5 pts short of a typical pure caster using a max level spell.) And sadly PK has two saves.. :<

Caster level does effect spell penetration, so his spell pen rolls are down by 4 from a pure caster.

Personaly when I make a hybrid caster I go for damage casting since saves and spell penetration just arn't an issue. It's also why I was thinking bard, because their fascinate has no save at all so levels arn't important.

Repeaters are decent at end game if you can get one with interesting effects on them, paralyzing repeaters are especialy handy. DPS wise they are about what you would expect, they do throw out damage but not especialy fast. Wounders can also work well sometimes.

[Rentz]

ah, thanks for the refresher, Sig.

[spifflove]

Wow, lots of detailed work, nice. Well here are some responses


this build seems a bit muddled to me, and i'm not a fan of finesse builds...but i'll try to be objective. Also, you should use ron's character planner and really detail a build for people and crunch some numbers so we know what you're planning to end up with. I have to basically go through and actually build your build for you here just to see some hard numbers...i guess i have too much time on my hands. :P

for one thing, you can't start with 18 cha and 18 dex..one has to be 17 - i recommend dex.


Drow are magic. you really can have 18 cha, 18 dex, and 16 intel.


10
17 26(+ 2 drow dex + 1 rogue dex + 6 item)
8 14 (tome +6 item)
16 22 (+6 item)
8
18 30 (+3 sorc +3 levels +6 item)


there doesn't seem to be much direction, from your description. As Sig said, his offensive and cc casting will likely be lackluster as he doesn't have max caster levels. his melee and tanking ability is questionable with such a low con score and questionable DPS with repeater (i'm just not sure how effective they are end-game). i suspect he'd have trouble using stat damagers due to a low str (on elite anyways), not to mention that without TWF feats stat damagers aren't particularly effective.
[/qoute]
if stat damage doesnt work d/t damage reduction, then nuke. Remember this build is never at a loss.
[QUOTE=Rentz;1296790]
I think i see what you're trying to do; you can come close to max with charisma and add illusion focus feat and then pull off some PK's, etc. this MIGHT work okay, i'm not so sure....Your best bet would likely be non-save or damage spells.

to hit:
8 BAB
13 26 dex
2 heroism
5 +5 repeater/bolts
1 haste
---
29... respectable.
31 with grtr hero via planar gird or friends. the scroll will be expensive.

rogue skills -
43 Search (16 (or so) ranks + 6 int + 4 grtr hero +1 enh + 3 ab + 13 search item)
39 UMD 17 ranks + 4 grtr hero + 3 cartouche + 15 Cha (enough to scroll Heal on a 1.)
46 Open Lock: 5 ranks + 13 dex + 7 tools + 13 item + 3 AB + 1 enh + 4 grtr hero
47 Disable device : (13 (or so) DD ranks +6 int + 4 grtr hero + 1 enh + 3 AB + 7 tools + 13 DD item
15 concentration ranks

Positives:
---------
evasion with a great reflex save
decent fort and will save.
damage mitigation from stoneskin and displacement
offense from firewall, scorch ray, cone of cold, repeater, shortswords + rapiers
little to no arcane failure
decent non-shield ac (around 40)
decent rogue skills, but not end game elite i don't think.
fantastic UMD - can scroll any divine scroll without fail.

Negetives:
-----------
relatively low hit points. even with a toughness feat instead of SF: illusion and a +6 con item bring you to 14 con: 151 hitpoints before false life spell and item. so 200 assuming the spell and grtr false life item. keep the heal scrolls handy.

not max caster levels and no Heighten for PK.
could use Enervate in conjunction with phantasmal killer... a bit mana intensive though. 1176 spell points to work with, assuming POP X.
rogue skills aren't quite high enough for elite levels, are they? could sacrifice some concentration skills for a few more, possibly.

I guess this is a variation of a Wizard Rogue trading max rogue skills, spells, and caster levels/effectiveness for evasion and high saves.

I think you'd be better off switching to 1 rogue/13 wizard so you can simply max Int and Dex, and have some more points left over for Con. you'd have a great wizard rogue who's more effective with spells and can still shoot the repeater.
however, the build has enough to-hit, spells, and rogue levels to be just fine except on some elite levels where your rogue abilities may not be enough.

nice work. I already have a repeater using rogue 1/wizard x formerly known as Hippolyta the Sea Elf.


if equipped properly, you can be a very good backup healer (heal scrolls), secondary caster (probably not a main caster, though), and a reasonable facsimile of a rogue. you take the place of a rogue or bard in a quest, keeping everyone hasted and blurred, and even displacing the tanks in tough fights.

"ultimate" might be a stretch. :P an "ultimate" build should be incredibly self-sufficient...i'm not sure you have enough DPS to call this build 'ultimate'... it's fairly survivable, though, with evasion, Stoneskin, Displace, 40 AC, and Heal scrolls.

Ultimate is meant to mean can do everything. There is no such thing as an "ultimate" build per say.

[Xyfiel]

Impaqt I had thought you had played with Xyfiel enough to know he is very similiar and does a decent job at everything. I know you have healed him in quests, and 168 hps is quickly cured, but w/p helps reduce aggro as a secondary melee while displacement stops half the hits. A fearsome robe of imp false life helps a lot also. Guess I should repost the build with his current setup soon.

For the quick info though, try this:
Drow Rogue3/Wiz11
High dex and twf, 40+ac using robes
saves mid 20's with evasion
almost permanent haste/displacement/stoneskin/tensers/resists
w/p rapier/ss, or off hand curse and power4 main(dont use vorpal)
rogue skills for everyting but cabal elite, umd boosted at 32
900 mana and empower(soon to be maximize) for boss nuking

Just keep me away from dispelling mobs...

[spifflove]

Impaqt I had thought you had played with Xyfiel enough to know he is very similiar and does a decent job at everything. I know you have healed him in quests, and 168 hps is quickly cured, but w/p helps reduce aggro as a secondary melee while displacement stops half the hits. A fearsome robe of imp false life helps a lot also. Guess I should repost the build with his current setup soon.

For the quick info though, try this:
Drow Rogue3/Wiz11
High dex and twf, 40+ac using robes
saves mid 20's with evasion
almost permanent haste/displacement/stoneskin/tensers/resists
w/p rapier/ss, or off hand curse and power4 main(dont use vorpal)
rogue skills for everyting but cabal elite, umd boosted at 32
900 mana and empower(soon to be maximize) for boss nuking

Just keep me away from dispelling mobs...

Good build. Thank you for pointing out that these build types will not draw aggro away from the tanks.

Fearsome armor will be a must in the end game content.

[spifflove]

Remember spell saving throws do not directly depend on caster level.. the formula is..

10 + Level of SPELL + Prime Requisite bonus + feats/enhancments/items bonus

So his PK is 10 + 4 + 10 + 1 = 25 (which is around 3-5 pts short of a typical pure caster using a max level spell.) And sadly PK has two saves.. :<

Caster level does effect spell penetration, so his spell pen rolls are down by 4 from a pure caster.

Personaly when I make a hybrid caster I go for damage casting since saves and spell penetration just arn't an issue. It's also why I was thinking bard, because their fascinate has no save at all so levels arn't important.

Repeaters are decent at end game if you can get one with interesting effects on them, paralyzing repeaters are especialy handy. DPS wise they are about what you would expect, they do throw out damage but not especialy fast. Wounders can also work well sometimes.

Perhaps you are right. With the new faser cooldown timer for wall of fire I really like the spell again. Also I can easily kite mobs into multiple fire walls and not take any damage.

Most of my other spells have no save. I am considering the two weapon fighting line. I leveled this build to 7 but have since moved it to my home server and am starting over.

Greater two weapon fighting will have to wait for level 15.

[spifflove]

Spiff seems to be reposting it with selective comments.

I saved what I could from cache. Unfortunately 2/3 of the material was lost.

[spifflove]

Your spells wont hit.
You will be missing your high level spells.
140HPs is a joke. Your AC is a joke. You will not survive melee content. If your primary focus is casting, why are you even aiming for AC at all? GH elite content will slap you around like a red-headed step child. Honestly... a cleric is just better off rezzing you everytime you take a dirtnap than trying to keep you healed.

The sum of your parts is worse than the individual components themselves.

Most of the spells have no save. Hp dont really matter so much as I wont have aggro and when I do get aggro I know how to kite.

There will be some instant deaths, but even my ranger who does draw aggro because of the dps he puts out does not die often, mainly d/t fearsome armor but also d/t speed.

I will survive alot better than the normal wizards who will get hunted like harpseals.