Need Numbers on Glancing Blows

[bigj1608]

hey all, i was just wonderin if any ppl with experience can give me a formula for or consistently tested numbers on the glancing blow damage/to hit chance and what swing in each swing sequence they hit on without and with thf/imp thf/grtr thf. i'd really appreciate any advice anyone has. just curious if the extra damage would be necessary as a dps barb

[Shade]

There have been several good threads on this, not sure where they went.

Basicly how it works is you do 1-30 extra damage on glancing blows, based on how hard you main attack hits. And its believed the +DMG action boost applies to them a bit more directly then other boosts.

All the feats have some increase in there damage, but primarily the feats are better for increaseing there chance to hit and on which attacks they hit.

Power Attack and high strength effecst there damage more overall.

Rough guide (with all feats taken as leveling up):
Main attack @
10dmg or less = 1-3
20dmg or less = 4-6
30dmg or less = 7-12
40 dmg or less 13-18
50 dmg or less 19-24
60+ dmg (maximum possible basicly) can get you over 25, highest i can get is 30. WF with power attack VI might get a little higher.

[Shade]

Is the xtra DPS neccasary?
No you can do ok without them.
But neither is maxing your strength, taking max str/dmg enhancements, or trying hard to get the highest DPS weapons.

But every point counts, and for a class whos primary role is DPS, I think there great feats that are well worth it.

But improved trip, stunning blow are also very nice feats. Some like cleave also tho I don't consider it as good as GTHF.

Won't really make or break a build, there just there if you want to be the best for DPS.

[bigj1608]

well, i figure an extra 20 damage a swing is a lot.. if you randomly pushed "I" and saw that you do 1d12+40 you'd be pretty impressed, but then, even further than that (if what you said is true), there is an invisible +20 there.. thats some pretty sick damage imo, and that's what i'm goin for

[KaKa]

well, i figure an extra 20 damage a swing is a lot.. if you randomly pushed "I" and saw that you do 1d12+40 you'd be pretty impressed, but then, even further than that (if what you said is true), there is an invisible +20 there.. thats some pretty sick damage imo, and that's what i'm goin for

Its not on every swing, only on the first and fourth attack in the attack progression if you have greater two handed fighting feat. But then it does also hit more then one enemy also if they are close enough. So while not on every swing it does add up significantly.

[bigj1608]

thanks for that Kaka, i was uninformed as to which hits the glancing blows actually hit on :)

[Shrazkil]

Though i could be wrong , im pretty sure GTHF will allow glancing blows on all swings ( just still random chance to go off).

[Shade]

No feat:
-5 to hit glancing blow only on first swing of attack combo.

Two handed.
+0? to hit (not sure on increase), some xtra damage

Improved two handed
+5? to hit (not sure on increase but they land more often then your regular attack), some xtra damage

Greater two handed
(same to hit as improved), some xtra damage, and glancing blows on first swing and fourth swing of a combo (not the 2nd or 3rd). And also on the first swing while moving (not the 2nd)

Glancing Blows offer the same attack arc as your weapon (roughly 270 degrees) and hit all targets in range regardless of focus orb item, this includes your main target.

No additional weapon effects apply to them nor can they critical hit.

[Mad_Bombardier]

No feat:
-5 to hit glancing blow only on first swing of attack combo.

Two handed.
+0? to hit (not sure on increase), some xtra damage

Improved two handed
+5? to hit (not sure on increase but they land more often then your regular attack), some xtra damage

Greater two handed
(same to hit as improved), some xtra damage, and glancing blows on first swing and fourth swing of a combo (not the 2nd or 3rd). And also on the first swing while moving (not the 2nd)

Glancing Blows offer the same attack arc as your weapon (roughly 270 degrees) and hit all targets in range regardless of focus orb item, this includes your main target.

No additional weapon effects apply to them nor can they critical hit.Sorry to dig up an old thread, but wanted to let you know what I found when leveling my Barb. GrTHF did not add to my glancing blow damage. I am getting the exact same 16-20 as before. But getting glancing blows on my 4th attack now, too (as previously stated and confirmed).

[sigtrent]

Hmmmmm

I've got my bard and I will have either one or two feats to dedicate to DPS by level 14. I can't get GTWF, although possibly at level 15.

I need to chuck skill focus UMD to free up one of the feat slots, the other is open at level 12. I don't need the SF any longer although it is somewhat handy...

Anyhow My options are Cleave & Great Cleave or THF and ITHF. The question is, which is going to be better for me in DPS over time. I haven't used Cleave and Great Cleave much myself nor THF or ITHF. Right now my glancing blows are in the 5-7 range and my damage at level 14 should be around 1d12 + 40 (Its 1d12 + 30 atm)

What do folks suggest?

[Mad_Bombardier]

What do folks suggest?Cleave does some amazing damage and can apply instakills and extra damage types (elemental, alignment, bane, etc.). But, it breaks your attack chain and requires a lot of good timing to pull off successfully without being counter-productive to DPS.

THF and ImpTHF should, according to Shade's numbers, increase your current glancing blow damage to the 8-16 range and your lvl 14 dmg to 16-20. In large groups its like a baby Cleave going off every 3rd swing (or with GrTHF every other swing) without even thinking about it. :)

[Shade]

Cleave does not increase your DPS at all, it usually lowers it. It can increase your usefulness on a quest by doing things like mass paralyze, or other effects, but wont help your dps in the slightess. Even if you were total pro at using them and used a vorpal with good luck, its still not worth it versus just attacking as fast as you can. There just not enough large groups where you gona be able to hit them all repeatedly with cleave for it to beat THF.

THF increase your single target DPS and overall killrate. Normal and improved dont have a huge effect on dps like greater does, but are allot better then nothing as they greatly increase your chance to hit with them.

[Fallout]

What about constantly alternating between cleave and creater cleave since I think they're on different cooldown timers?

[tihocan]

What about constantly alternating between cleave and creater cleave since I think they're on different cooldown timers?
You can't "constantly alternate". You can fire Cleave, Great cleave, then switch to smashing attack button, then you can do a new cleave, then you smash, then either another cleave or a great cleave (great cleave's cooldown is significantly longer than cleave), etc. So it requires cooldown watching and good synchronization to not actually lower your attack speed.

[nbhs275]

Cleave does not increase your DPS at all, it usually lowers it. It can increase your usefulness on a quest by doing things like mass paralyze, or other effects, but wont help your dps in the slightess. Even if you were total pro at using them and used a vorpal with good luck, its still not worth it versus just attacking as fast as you can. There just not enough large groups where you gona be able to hit them all repeatedly with cleave for it to beat THF.

THF increase your single target DPS and overall killrate. Normal and improved dont have a huge effect on dps like greater does, but are allot better then nothing as they greatly increase your chance to hit with them.

Cleave is far better when your:

A. Attacking a large group affected by one of the big 4(who cares about paralyzing?) If you can smite them all, banish them all, disrupt them, and to a lesser extent vorp them, it wins. Because your getting more actual attacks into the group.

B. Using a weapon with an effect that will gain you benefit the more it hits. This is mostly the choasblade currently, but there will most likely be similiar effects soon.

C. If your not exclusivly twohanded. Cleave works on one handers, where the THF chain goes into hibernation when that greataxe or greatsword is stowed away.

D. When you have less feats to invest, as the THF chain is only of great benefit when you have it all.

E. When you need to draw the initial aggro of a group with other melees swing too( The two cleaves can both hit within the time of one regular swing) Your two hits do 80-350 damage on the average DPS toon. Those other rangers//fighters//paladins arent going to catch up to that much damage aggro right away. Those 2-4 seconds of aggro on one main tank can make many tight spots much simplier.

Not saying THF is a bad chain or that cleave is far superior, but that they both have pros and cons, and uses.

[Westerner]

Hmmmmm

I've got my bard and I will have either one or two feats to dedicate to DPS by level 14. I can't get GTWF, although possibly at level 15.

I need to chuck skill focus UMD to free up one of the feat slots, the other is open at level 12. I don't need the SF any longer although it is somewhat handy...

Anyhow My options are Cleave & Great Cleave or THF and ITHF. The question is, which is going to be better for me in DPS over time. I haven't used Cleave and Great Cleave much myself nor THF or ITHF. Right now my glancing blows are in the 5-7 range and my damage at level 14 should be around 1d12 + 40 (Its 1d12 + 30 atm)
Sorry to ressurect an old thread, but am wondering what you ended up doing with this? I am facing the same decision with my battlebard.