Mortal Voyage Permadeath Guild of Argonnessen

[parvo]

Mortal Voyage is a no-twink Permadeath guild on Argonnessen. Our rule set is inspired by classic paper and pencil campaigns. Complete rules can be found here: www.mortalvoyage.com


The following is a summary of rules found at the above link. If you are interested, visit the website. To join, you must agree to the letter and spirit of the Mortal Voyage rules.

---1. Your character must be level one when joining the guild
---2. No spoilers. Don’t talk about what is coming up in a quest.
---3. If your character dies, it is deleted or leaves the guild.
---4. If your character dies, surviving party members may loot one item (or stack of items) from your corpse.
Exception; you may designate one item as an heirloom.
---5. If your character dies, any unrecovered equipment is deleted, sold for guild funded events or transfered out of the guild. Bank items and money included.
---6. Do not use the auction house to buy or sell.
---7. Do not purchase commodity magic items from vendors (wands, potions, scrolls, etc). Pawnbroker purchase is OK. Non-magic purchase is OK. Favor-related vendors are OK.
---8. Do not exit and re-enter an active quest.
Exception; you may re-enter a quest to save a fellow group-mate who needs assistance.
---9. No PUGing.
---10. Do not accept gifts of any sort from characters outside the guild.
---11. No Twinking. Do not pass any item, gear or money to any other character. This includes your own characters within the guild.
Exception; you can trade collectibles and consumable items like potions, wands and scrolls within the guild at any level.
Exception; Group-mates can share items that are found in chests within an adventure.
---12. No “tag-alongs”. You may not “tag-along” in a quest just for item drops. If you’re getting no XP from power leveling, you are tagging along. Don’t do it.
---13. Run quests on the highest available difficulty.


Since the website is now up, we will be keeping the official rules there. Discussion can continue here as well.

[GeneralDiomedes]

So I can buy a jump clickie but I can't buy jump potions?

I can farm Tangleroot for remove blindness potions or purchase blindness ward goggles from a broker but I can't buy remove blindness potions from a vendor?

It would be better to prohibit repeating quests than it would be to restrict wand/potion/scroll purchase. The real resource equation is an unlimited source of resources, whether it be from loot runs or the auction house. Limit that and you limit everything.

[parvo]

So I can buy a jump clickie but I can't buy jump potions?

I can farm Tangleroot for remove blindness potions or purchase blindness ward goggles from a broker but I can't buy remove blindness potions from a vendor?

It would be better to prohibit repeating quests than it would be to restrict wand/potion/scroll purchase. The real resource equation is an unlimited source of resources, whether it be from loot runs or the auction house. Limit that and you limit everything.

Some good points here but the idea is not to eliminate useful items, just balance their availability. Namely healing, which as far as I know can't be had at at pawnbrokers. Pawnbroker items have a higher cost and minimum required levels that help balance thier use. DDO has some really nice mechanics regarding economy that are often ignored in regular play. The MV system encourages players to harness economic mechanics (through PnP style skills and abilities) if they want to purchase nice items.

I'd love to limit repeat runs and such, but that could limit grouping. I think Bare Bones tried a similar rule and it proved cumbersome. If you have a suggestion for a concise rule regarding repeat runs, I'd love to hear it.

[Duncani_Daho]

I will be there.

I had a great time gaming with Sublime on Thelanis. But I'd like to try a more "raw" approach (no twinking) with Mortal Voyage.

Who should I look for on Argonnessen?

N.

[parvo]

I will be there.

I had a great time gaming with Sublime on Thelanis. But I'd like to try a more "raw" approach (no twinking) with Mortal Voyage.

Who should I look for on Argonnessen?

N.

I've got several characters there on Argonnessen and all I play is PD right now. Until things get rolling, I'll only play there. Just sort the who list by guild, and look for Mortal Voyage Permadeath Guild. I can get you in at a pre-determined time if you like. Send a PM.

BTW, I'm open to some rules suggestions so long as they are in the spirit of what I laid out. I'd like to hear what others have to say.

[Duncani_Daho]

I agree with all the rules except one. The idea of looting from the dead is extremely distasteful to me. I forgo it and expect others to do the same.

Here are my reasons for being against looting corpses:

1. Party members GAIN from your loss. This is the moral argument against looting-- no one should ever benefit from a teammate dying. The idea that some party members would loot my corpse and not return those cherished items to a descendant of my fallen character is bitter at best. At worst it could lead to animosity and resentment. For example, "You were there and looted my corpse when my last character died, so I'm going to be there when you fall, sorry if my heal is a bit late."

2. In DDO it is impossible to loot a corpse. If it were indeed possible, I might understand the premise. But since looting a corpse actually requires the dead character to be resurrected by releasing out to a tavern or taken to a shrine to hand over his stuff through a trade window to another character, the transaction is humiliating. If you have to ask, "what have you got?" Then how is it possible to loot a corpse? Is the fallen character going to tell the truth and allow others to take his most precious items? Just a bad, bad idea all around.

3. I would allow for an exemption if the dead character "gifted" items, but no one should ever be expected to play along with the corpse-looting scenerio.

Just my empassioned 2 cents.

Nico, Movan, Twocoins

[~Zornochio]

Party members GAIN from your loss. This is the moral argument against looting-- no one should ever benefit from a teammate dying. The idea that some party members would loot my corpse and not return those cherished items to a descendant of my fallen character is bitter at best. At worst it could lead to animosity and resentment. For example, "You were there and looted my corpse when my last character died, so I'm going to be there when you fall, sorry if my heal is a bit late."

I could understand that line of thinking in pugs, but I've never seen anything like this in my year and a half of PD play.

[Mr_Ed7]

Good-Luck with all of that!

[Findecano]

So I've been reading the forums for a guild to join, since I am coming back to DDO after taking off after a month after launch. I was going to join your guild, but when I finally finished creating my character, I was unable to find anyone in your guild online. This was at 1:30 PST. So I guess I will be searching for a new guild. There is no sense in joining a guild who is not active. If your guild is active, please let me know when. That is something VERY important to include in your original post. I am more active during the day, than I am at night. I am active at night too, but I like to play during the day as well, when I don't have anything better to do.

[parvo]

I agree with all the rules except one. The idea of looting from the dead is extremely distasteful to me. I forgo it and expect others to do the same.

Here are my reasons for being against looting corpses:

1. Party members GAIN from your loss. This is the moral argument against looting-- no one should ever benefit from a teammate dying. The idea that some party members would loot my corpse and not return those cherished items to a descendant of my fallen character is bitter at best. At worst it could lead to animosity and resentment. For example, "You were there and looted my corpse when my last character died, so I'm going to be there when you fall, sorry if my heal is a bit late."

2. In DDO it is impossible to loot a corpse. If it were indeed possible, I might understand the premise. But since looting a corpse actually requires the dead character to be resurrected by releasing out to a tavern or taken to a shrine to hand over his stuff through a trade window to another character, the transaction is humiliating. If you have to ask, "what have you got?" Then how is it possible to loot a corpse? Is the fallen character going to tell the truth and allow others to take his most precious items? Just a bad, bad idea all around.

3. I would allow for an exemption if the dead character "gifted" items, but no one should ever be expected to play along with the corpse-looting scenerio.

Just my empassioned 2 cents.

Nico, Movan, Twocoins

I'd say it's allways a loss when one of you're PD guildmates falls. From a PnP perspective, you're dead. You don't have a choice. I want this guild to have firm roots in PnP play. When a character dies in PnP others don't have your equipment memorized, they look through the packs and such. In PnP, the other player might just hand you the character sheet. Here, you just list it out in party chat. I've done it many times and seen countless others do it with no humiliation. It's an act of selflessness that the survivors appreciate. It shows your teamates that you're honest and you care about their survival. I have never seen anyone cause a death to get others equipment in a PD group. It just doesn't happen. In fact, the opposite is true. I've seen lots of people give up their characters life in an act of PD heroism. (remember Proof is in the Poison? Kevlar wasn't thinking of Narc's gear when he was dancing). I died a lot in Sublime and I'm quite proud that others still carry some of my old gear. The one hierloom item is a way to pass something to the family without twinking.

[parvo]

So I've been reading the forums for a guild to join, since I am coming back to DDO after taking off after a month after launch. I was going to join your guild, but when I finally finished creating my character, I was unable to find anyone in your guild online. This was at 1:30 PST. So I guess I will be searching for a new guild. There is no sense in joining a guild who is not active. If your guild is active, please let me know when. That is something VERY important to include in your original post. I am more active during the day, than I am at night. I am active at night too, but I like to play during the day as well, when I don't have anything better to do.

No DDO PD guild is ever born "active". They take time to grow. That's something I'm commited to. If you'd like, you can send me a PM and I'll arrange for the invite. I'm travelling this week, so I can't get it myself.

If you're interested in an established PD guild look for The Sublime of Thelanis. There are a few rules differences but my PD days started there when it was smaller. They are great folks. For obvious reasons, they know the early quests very well. As you would have to do most anywhere, you'll need to remind them you are new and no spoilers.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Some good points here but the idea is not to eliminate useful items, just balance their availability. Namely healing, which as far as I know can't be had at at pawnbrokers. Pawnbroker items have a higher cost and minimum required levels that help balance thier use. DDO has some really nice mechanics regarding economy that are often ignored in regular play. The MV system encourages players to harness economic mechanics (through PnP style skills and abilities) if they want to purchase nice items.

I'd love to limit repeat runs and such, but that could limit grouping. I think Bare Bones tried a similar rule and it proved cumbersome. If you have a suggestion for a concise rule regarding repeat runs, I'd love to hear it.

The resource equation: if you restrict wand/potion/scroll purchase, then all it will do is encourage everyone to build characters that can self-heal/buff with lots of mana. Battle bards/clerics and Paladin/Sorcerers both can be quite effective at melee (or effective enough to complete quests for all the l33ts out there) and self-heal. IMO there is simply no way to realistically limit healing resources like you want to. What are people supposed to do if there is nothing but 2 fighters and a Ranger on?

Bare bones had more of a problem with not doing quests below your level than with not repeating AFAIK. The game now has more than enough quests to get you through all the levels without re-entering at the same difficulty.

Anyways good luck.

[parvo]

The resource equation: if you restrict wand/potion/scroll purchase, then all it will do is encourage everyone to build characters that can self-heal/buff with lots of mana. Battle bards/clerics and Paladin/Sorcerers both can be quite effective at melee (or effective enough to complete quests for all the l33ts out there) and self-heal. IMO there is simply no way to realistically limit healing resources like you want to. What are people supposed to do if there is nothing but 2 fighters and a Ranger on?

Bare bones had more of a problem with not doing quests below your level than with not repeating AFAIK. The game now has more than enough quests to get you through all the levels without re-entering at the same difficulty.

Anyways good luck.

It is possible to live off what you get from questing. I have a Barbarian/Fighter splash that I solo with now. The example you give of two Fighters and a Ranger might go into a dungeon with limited healing supplies, but that is exactly the point. It's more like Greyhawk style PnP.

[GeneralDiomedes]

It is possible to live off what you get from questing. I have a Barbarian/Fighter splash that I solo with now. The example you give of two Fighters and a Ranger might go into a dungeon with limited healing supplies, but that is exactly the point. It's more like Greyhawk style PnP.

I'd like to know what sort of quests you have completed and how far you have got exclusively soloing with a Barb/Fighter that cannot buy any potions. The two fighters and a Ranger with a healing wand between them might get through 3 or 4 easy quests .. but eventually they will run into a wall.

Again, it's just discriminating against builds without mana.

[Purgatory]

Cant seem to find anyone on to get the ball rolling, been logged on for over 4 hours 11 am-3pm, been more like a block stuck in the mud... hope there is at least a few on wanting to play. I don't care much for soloing so lets get'er done

Well I rolled up a 28 pt build human cleric. and hes ready to get his mace dirty while calling on his god to heal his allies. Would like to be able to get into the guild and do the Goodblade's for the night.

[parvo]

I'd like to know what sort of quests you have completed and how far you have got exclusively soloing with a Barb/Fighter that cannot buy any potions. The two fighters and a Ranger with a healing wand between them might get through 3 or 4 easy quests .. but eventually they will run into a wall.

Again, it's just discriminating against builds without mana.

I don't see the two Fighter and a Ranger group even needing much healing. Unless the two Fighters insist on allways using two-handed weapons and the Ranger allways uses two weapons. It might take a little tactical play...One Fighter breaks out the tower shield, goes into defensive fighting mode and intimidates while the other two peel one mob off at a time. I think that party is very strong and can complete most level-appropriate quests. Not in the manner that most PUGs do, but that's the point.

Builds without mana have plenty of advantages without needing unlimited healing. Fighters and Barbarians are DPS melee machines without equal. Rogues have plenty of skills. The creators of Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 built a nicely balanced system. Cheap commodity magic throws that balance out the window.

[Purgatory]

I'm still sitting in the harbor and still see none around that are from this guild :(

[parvo]

Cant seem to find anyone on to get the ball rolling, been logged on for over 4 hours 11 am-3pm, been more like a block stuck in the mud... hope there is at least a few on wanting to play. I don't care much for soloing so lets get'er done

Well I rolled up a 28 pt build human cleric. and hes ready to get his mace dirty while calling on his god to heal his allies. Would like to be able to get into the guild and do the Goodblade's for the night.

Unfortunately I'm traveling this week. I'll be back on the weekend and possibly as early as Wednesday night. Interest is good and I'm commited to growing the guild so things will get rolling soon.

BTW, I'm probably going to tighten up the no-twinking rules. I'm thinking passing gear to characters your level and higher invites abuse and just another form of twinking. I want economic strategy to come into play in this guild. If you want money, your character should have the skills for accumulating it.

[Purgatory]

well i guess ill go ahead and solo the goodblades on my own then.

[Findecano]

People are really being skeptical about your rule set, but I say the more closer to PnP play, the better. I'm not stating that the points brought against your rule set wasn't valid, but if you recruit mature AND smart people, we won't have much of a problem.

There is something you need to clarify for all that are reading. Is this guild formed right now? You keep mentioning that you aren't online this week, and I didn't think nothing of it. But I am starting to get the impression that the signifigance of you not being on this week is that you are the only one in the guild or the only one who can invite. Either way, neither is good. I hope you promote some active members to Officer, so more people can invite.

How many people are in this guild right now? The way you word your post and signature, it sounds like your guild is established. Which leads those reading and wanting to join to believe they can just start right up and send one of the people a /tell for an invite. But as two of us have seen already, not one member from Mortal Voyage has been online while we were searching /social.

So please be upfront with us, so we know how to plan our own play times. Is your guild set up in-game yet? If not, when is a good time to get this guild set up and rolling. That should be priority #1, if the guild isn't set up yet. If the guild is set up, you should specify when everyone usually logs on, so those reading don't keep logging in for an invite with no one online.

I personally don't like having to wait a week after I resubscribe to start playing a game, but I will if I think that this will work out. I WILL NOT start a character to play with during times that guild members aren't logged in, so guild member activeness is important. If I am better off heading to another guild, say so, otherwise I am assuming that your guild is ready to go and you are on top of things.

Thanks

[parvo]

People are really being skeptical about your rule set, but I say the more closer to PnP play, the better. I'm not stating that the points brought against your rule set wasn't valid, but if you recruit mature AND smart people, we won't have much of a problem.

There is something you need to clarify for all that are reading. Is this guild formed right now? You keep mentioning that you aren't online this week, and I didn't think nothing of it. But I am starting to get the impression that the signifigance of you not being on this week is that you are the only one in the guild or the only one who can invite. Either way, neither is good. I hope you promote some active members to Officer, so more people can invite.

How many people are in this guild right now? The way you word your post and signature, it sounds like your guild is established. Which leads those reading and wanting to join to believe they can just start right up and send one of the people a /tell for an invite. But as two of us have seen already, not one member from Mortal Voyage has been online while we were searching /social.

So please be upfront with us, so we know how to plan our own play times. Is your guild set up in-game yet? If not, when is a good time to get this guild set up and rolling. That should be priority #1, if the guild isn't set up yet. If the guild is set up, you should specify when everyone usually logs on, so those reading don't keep logging in for an invite with no one online.

I personally don't like having to wait a week after I resubscribe to start playing a game, but I will if I think that this will work out. I WILL NOT start a character to play with during times that guild members aren't logged in, so guild member activeness is important. If I am better off heading to another guild, say so, otherwise I am assuming that your guild is ready to go and you are on top of things.

Thanks

I sent you a private message yesterday. The business trip was unexpected. Had I known, I would have delayed posting rules for the guild. As it is, interest is good and things will get rolling as soon as I get back. I understand that you want an active guild and I'm commited to that.

<<EDIT: I appologize. I thought I send you a PM but I missed you. I sent several to others who are interested. I just formed this guild so right now there is only one other officer and I think he will only visit about once/week. When I get back, I'll be on almost every evening (U.S. Central time) to get people in and officered.>>

If you can't wait to start PD play, I suggest The Sublime of Thelanis. Their rules are different and not necessarily rooted in PnP play but it is a wondeful guild where I got my PD start. Extreme Explorers of Sarlona is another option to consider. The point of difference is MV has stricter rules akin to classic AD&D play.

The rule set will work just fine. DDO is the only MMO I've played that even has cheap consumable magic for sale, much less unlimited availability of in-combat healing. Not to say that characters won't die. They certainly will. The rule set is designed for players who enjoy a difficult challenge.

[parvo]

well i guess ill go ahead and solo the goodblades on my own then.

I think you and Fendicano(sp?) both play during the day. So you can duo as soon as I get home. My most memorable quests were PD duos. The unplanned travel this week threw me off and I appologize. I plan to be on Thursday night (U.S. Central ~8-11pm) If you and Fendicano are around, I'll catch you then. Alternately, you could send Zorn a PM and ask him to guild you since he's the only other current officer. I'm pleasantly surprised at how many folks are interested. I'm happy to know my playstyle isn't so weird afterall :) I can't wait to see what we can accomplish with this unique rule set!

BTW, I did tighten the no-twink rule. We shouldn't have people transfering anything but consumables and collectibles between alts. I'm sure there will be some painful moments when we pull something an alt or non-group guildie could really use, but it will be that much sweeter when we pull something our current character or group-mate can use. The idea is to treat each character as an individual making their own way without much assistance. When the new mod comes out (and assuming it provides a real collectible solution) I'll take the collectible exception out as well.

[Purgatory]

I have created 5 new toons on the server for play in this PD guild, all 28 pt builds.

Broadken Wands lvl 1 Human male Clr

Broadkeen Trap lvl 1 WF male rog/wiz

Broadkin Axe lvl 1 Dwarf male ftr/brb

Broadkanna Faith lvl 2 Human female pal/ftr

Broadkan Arrow lvl 1 Elf male rng/ftr

Ill be on about 5 pm est to 6 pm tonight if anyone that is planning on playing in the guild but hasn't gotten a invite yet can meet up with me or, if your already have gotten a invite, for a bit of questing, more then likely longer if there is more then just me on. Go ahead and send me a tell in game and we can get things started. I know the rules state u must be lvl 1 to get a invite but since there is no one around tell Thursday night to do this I think its safe to assume all toons created at lvl 1 with the intent of being apart of the guild and played by the rules of the guild tell a invite is given are not considered non pd guild toons but just circumstancely delayed invited PD guild members.

If there is a better time for you, go ahead and post when you will be on and ill try and give you someone to quest with if its possible.

[Lithic]

I'll be rolling a char for this, but I have one question.

You are prohibiting potions since they are cheap sources of healing, however without any twinking or cash transfers a low level char will be hardpressed to carry even 20 cure light potions (I know my rogue goes through those like crazy, and I would easily run out if I didnt keep transfering 10k plat every week or so hehe).

[GeneralDiomedes]

I don't see the two Fighter and a Ranger group even needing much healing. Unless the two Fighters insist on allways using two-handed weapons and the Ranger allways uses two weapons. It might take a little tactical play...One Fighter breaks out the tower shield, goes into defensive fighting mode and intimidates while the other two peel one mob off at a time. I think that party is very strong and can complete most level-appropriate quests. Not in the manner that most PUGs do, but that's the point.

Builds without mana have plenty of advantages without needing unlimited healing. Fighters and Barbarians are DPS melee machines without equal. Rogues have plenty of skills. The creators of Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 built a nicely balanced system. Cheap commodity magic throws that balance out the window.

Again, its just another resource equation - do quests that require less resources to complete. I know which ones they are, you know which ones they are. Your intimidating tank will have a tough time taking no damage against hard/elite casters, CR8 named spiders or big nasty STK bosses.

Too bad that DDO didn't have a way to provide limited purchase.

[parvo]

I'll be rolling a char for this, but I have one question.

You are prohibiting potions since they are cheap sources of healing, however without any twinking or cash transfers a low level char will be hardpressed to carry even 20 cure light potions (I know my rogue goes through those like crazy, and I would easily run out if I didnt keep transfering 10k plat every week or so hehe).

Lithic,
I'll be on Thursday Night to start inviting folks. Actually if you collect, and don't use them too often, you should be OK with potions from the mushroom lady at low levels. If you don't collect, it might be best to play a class that can heal or avoid taking a lot of damage. The whole idea is to limit the amount of healing and create a dungeon crawl experience like classic AD&D, while adding value back to interesting skills like Heal, Repair, Haggle and so forth.

I'll also add this; pure Rogues are tough to play in PD. My Sublime PD Rogue died 18 times. The highest ever Sublime pure Rogue was level seven. And that is a guild with more liberal rule set than Mortal Voyage. Not to say it can't be done. I plan to have a pure Rogue myself in Mortal Voyage, but I'll try and play group support as much as possible. The good news is you can still be a very capable Rogue-like character with multi-classing in DDO. One of my favorite ever characters was a Warforged Combat Rogue/Fighter. He was very solid for PD.

[Falco_Easts]

Am interested in looking you up but one quick question, do you consider drow/32 point build twinking if the original favour getter is not in PD? Am good either way, just curious.

[parvo]

Again, its just another resource equation - do quests that require less resources to complete. I know which ones they are, you know which ones they are. Your intimidating tank will have a tough time taking no damage against hard/elite casters, CR8 named spiders or big nasty STK bosses.

Too bad that DDO didn't have a way to provide limited purchase.

Yes, it's too bad Turbine didn't balance the availability of commodity magic. I believe the game would have a longer, healthier life if they had.

[parvo]

Am interested in looking you up but one quick question, do you consider drow/32 point build twinking if the original favour getter is not in PD? Am good either way, just curious.

Where the heck are the DDO forums servers where it is 11:19 PM?

I'll be on Thursday night (~8-11pm) to get you invited if you're on. Drow and 32-pt builds are fine. I'm personally going to gain Drow favor through the guild before I use them. 32-pt builds can't easily be disallowed because if someone has 32-pt available, they can't create 28-pt custom non-Drow builds. The system forces them to spend all 32 ability points during character creation.

Seeya soon!

[Findecano]

So, is that 8-11pm EST?

Are you creating a new character tonight? If so, we can all knock out the tutorial area solo before 8pm, and then meet in the first tavern in the Harbor (forgot its name). I think this is going to run more like a dedicated teams group until we get more members,since we can't and shouldn't group up with others.
So lets set up a place to meet at 8pm EST(?).

I forgot my name, because I created him a week ago, but I am a human Sorcerer.

[parvo]

Closer to 8 central but it could be sooner or later...

[parvo]

Last night was the first night for me to meet the new members of the guild and do some questing. We had a few close ones but no deaths and lots of fun. I hope others that have expressed interest stop by this weekend for invites. There should be a good chance of locating an officer now that the initial folks are in.

I want to discuss potential for a rule that some other guilds have used. I need to know what people think here. It's been proposed that we only do quests at the highest available difficulty level (whether grouped or soloing). I personally try to do this anyway and I think a lot of others do as well. The idea is to limit easy loot running. It's not so foreboding as it may seem as even a large group can often find something they are comfortable with. There are also adventure areas that do not have a difficulty scale. Please let me know what you think.

[Findecano]

I assumed that we always did quests on the highest setting. I thought that's how you get good xp after doing it once already. So of course I am game for that rule.

By the way, Broad, myself, and Three wiped on a harbor quest last night. We created new characters and got them all into the harbor. I think we are all levels 2 1/2.

[parvo]

Sorry to hear about the wipe. It's the first official wipe of Mortal Voyage. Perhaps we can immortalize the fallen when I get a website up.

As for the potential rule, not everyone does the hardest setting. I've seen some that will grind easy quests for XP or loot. It doesn't happen often in PD play but I want to know what others think about a rule for it. Perhaps we can trial the rule and get some more feedback on it's effects.

Software for webpage building is en route. I'll have to learn it but I have a fallback plan if that fails.

[Ron]

Hey Parvo,

Just something to consider. The plethora of magic items in DDO Ebberon is not really out of whack with PnP play. If you browse the Ebberon Campain Setting book, magic is everywhere. I'm not sure if they have shops in Sharn selling CLW wands, but it wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

Ebberon is supposed to be a magic rich environment.

Just a thing to think about as you are solidifying your ruleset. Good luck!

(BTW I just had my second attempt at a pure thief die in TR the other day, I know the sting on losing a character, heh. But that's what makes it fun. Sorry to hear about the wipe).

[GeneralDiomedes]

Hey Parvo,

Just something to consider. The plethora of magic items in DDO Ebberon is not really out of whack with PnP play. If you browse the Ebberon Campain Setting book, magic is everywhere. I'm not sure if they have shops in Sharn selling CLW wands, but it wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

Ebberon is supposed to be a magic rich environment.

Just a thing to think about as you are solidifying your ruleset. Good luck!

(BTW I just had my second attempt at a pure thief die in TR the other day, I know the sting on losing a character, heh. But that's what makes it fun. Sorry to hear about the wipe).

Yep, low level magic. Of course cure serious wands appear powerful to someone level 5 .. but not to someone running level 14 stuff.

[parvo]

Hey Parvo,

Just something to consider. The plethora of magic items in DDO Ebberon is not really out of whack with PnP play. If you browse the Ebberon Campain Setting book, magic is everywhere. I'm not sure if they have shops in Sharn selling CLW wands, but it wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

Ebberon is supposed to be a magic rich environment.

Just a thing to think about as you are solidifying your ruleset. Good luck!

(BTW I just had my second attempt at a pure thief die in TR the other day, I know the sting on losing a character, heh. But that's what makes it fun. Sorry to hear about the wipe).

Mortal Voyage is about creating a challenging environment closer to classic PnP. Magic rich in PnP usually means lots of low level magic. I doubt there are many campaigns where the DM allows each player to stop by Monty's Magic Hall before a quest and pick out a 12-pack of cure mod wands and a stack of Raise Dead scrolls while hand picking a Keg of exactly the resist potion they need for the specific quest. The commodity magic available in Stormreach is not low level. It's extremely powerful. Its a shame Turbine didn't balance Stormreach like an MMO should be. Even with the MV rule set, Stormreach remains magic rich.

Sorry to hear about your Rogue. They have allways been the toughest pure class for me to play PD but they are fun while they last :)

[parvo]

Question came up regarding Ammo. I've allways considered it a consumable and therefore tradable within the rules of Mortal Voyage. And since trading collectibles (where a lot of the bane ammo comes from) is allowed (pending a workable solution from Turbine), there wouldn't be much impact. At this point I don't want to complicate the rules, so I'll leave it as is. If anyone has anything to add, please do. Just keep in mind, we want the rules to remain succinct.

The website is comming along! Although with my painfull noobness in this matter, there's no guarantee it will work on the first try. I'll likely have at least a welcome screen and rules up by the weekend. It will be a work in progress for sure. Here's a shout-out to the folks who volunteered assistance! It won't take long for us to have a first class site.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Id like to try this out Parvo.

Didnt realise you had started a PD guild on Agro, but now I know.

So, what kind of class seems to be lacking in your guild at the moment? I have a level one cleric Ive never used, I made him to save the name...may have to reroll him cause Im not sure if I just put any old stats in or if I actually took the time to create him.

Im interested in either an intimitank, a tank who actually intimidates, a wizard or a cleric. Ive a 14 paladin and a 14 barbarian so melee is something Ive done plenty of and its time for a lil change.

Im not sure how much time I can commit to MV, but it certainly something Im willing to try out.

Oh and recalling. Say, for instance, a party wipe occurs and Im the last one standing, can I recall out or do you have to try and complete the quest?

Happy huntin'

Bee/Eyern.

[parvo]

Id like to try this out Parvo.

Didnt realise you had started a PD guild on Agro, but now I know.

So, what kind of class seems to be lacking in your guild at the moment? I have a level one cleric Ive never used, I made him to save the name...may have to reroll him cause Im not sure if I just put any old stats in or if I actually took the time to create him.

Im interested in either an intimitank, a tank who actually intimidates, a wizard or a cleric. Ive a 14 paladin and a 14 barbarian so melee is something Ive done plenty of and its time for a lil change.

Im not sure how much time I can commit to MV, but it certainly something Im willing to try out.

Oh and recalling. Say, for instance, a party wipe occurs and Im the last one standing, can I recall out or do you have to try and complete the quest?

Happy huntin'

Bee/Eyern.

Create whatever character you enjoy. It will be great to have you with us.

You can recall whenever you need to, but you can not re-enter to complete objectives.

[parvo]

Tweaked the "loot-the-dead" rule. Most people thought it was better to loot only one item from a fallen comrade instead of stipping them naked. Go figure?

BTW, awesome WW/Hard run. I'll remember that one for all the classic PD moments.

[Langdon]

Hey, Mortal Voyage sounds like just the experience I have been looking for. I love the idea of using your teammates, skills, and resources discovered in dungeons to the best of your ability, and failure to do so you face the ultimate price. I have been playing on Argo since December and am very excited to hear there is a strict perma death guild that is growing. Sounds like you and I share a vision, Parvo. When I get home tonight, I am going to roll up a 32 point character, maybe even a couple. I'll search for an officer. You are absolutely right about the unbalancing of highly available magic commodities. I want to feel like I found something great when i find a heal potion...

Deanus Lv 14 fighter ARGO

[Yabba]

Mortal Voyage is about creating a challenging environment closer to classic PnP. Magic rich in PnP usually means lots of low level magic. I doubt there are many campaigns where the DM allows each player to stop by Monty's Magic Hall before a quest and pick out a 12-pack of cure mod wands and a stack of Raise Dead scrolls while hand picking a Keg of exactly the resist potion they need for the specific quest.

With your restrictions on the AH and the no passing gold to characters, I doubt that anyone could actually do it if you did allow them to do it.

I know my lvl 7 cleric couldn't afford raise dead scrolls until I worked out how to use the AH effectively. I just didn't have that much gold to spend.

[parvo]

With your restrictions on the AH and the no passing gold to characters, I doubt that anyone could actually do it if you did allow them to do it.

I know my lvl 7 cleric couldn't afford raise dead scrolls until I worked out how to use the AH effectively. I just didn't have that much gold to spend.

In my experience, Permadeath Clerics do fine when it comes to money. PD players tend to need a lot less healing than normal play. In fact we run quests without a healer all the time. A lot of Priests have decent charisma for haggle and can have less equipment damage than Warriors.

In Mortal Voyage, money is just another layer of strategy to play with. Players have to prioritize. "Should I splurge for that +3 docent or save up a bit more for a nice weapon?". "Should I put some haggle skill on my butt-ugly warrior or use an enhancement to reduce equipment damage and cost?" DDO has some nice economic mechanics that are largely lost in normal play. Part of what we wanted to do is bring economic strategy back into the game. And so far, its working great.

[GeneralDiomedes]

These rules are working out very nicely, and they make things a lot of fun. When was the last time you actually had to run around avoiding an enemy Flaming Sphere (or even knew you could) until it dissapated because you were trying to conserve fire resistance and healing resources?

Restricting healing purchase is the only thing that could possibly have been done to force people to play smarter, and to that end it has succeeded. With wands available most typical PD groups are still rather zergy. This reminds me of the early Sublime days before the Auction House came along and people didn't know the quests like the back of their hands.

There remains a weakness for making resource intensive quests basically impossible with groups with no mana, but nothing can really be done about that. So far there have been balanced groups available the majority of the time and that can only get better. IMO there is a bit of a logical inconsistency with allowing equipment purchase at brokers, but not allowing trading of equipment between players, and not allowing commodity magic purchase but allowing trading of commodities between players (and as you have implied, commodity magic availability is the more serious balance issue). But on examination it is a good pragmatic solution. It fulfills in a modest way two psychological needs for people who quest: building up funds to buy stuff and finding useful stuff for your alts. If you restricted all trade and didn't allow broker purchase I think it would cease to be entertainment and feel more like work.

[parvo]

These rules are working out very nicely, and they make things a lot of fun. When was the last time you actually had to run around avoiding an enemy Flaming Sphere (or even knew you could) until it dissapated because you were trying to conserve fire resistance and healing resources?

Restricting healing purchase is the only thing that could possibly have been done to force people to play smarter, and to that end it has succeeded. With wands available most typical PD groups are still rather zergy. This reminds me of the early Sublime days before the Auction House came along and people didn't know the quests like the back of their hands.

There remains a weakness for making resource intensive quests basically impossible with groups with no mana, but nothing can really be done about that. So far there have been balanced groups available the majority of the time and that can only get better with time.

I'm glad you find it refreshing! It's true that resource intense quests can be tough, but that was part of the intent. I used up ~10 precious oils of light repair on those Necropolis quests with our underpowered party, and all my resist sonic and fire potions too!

The economic game has been a fun piece, with a lot of excitement when someone pulls or can afford something nice. So far, people have been able to afford moderate gear. While charismatic Bards have nicer things, my big dumb ugly Barbarian has to scrape by with his plus two longsword (however, Parvo was able to afford a +3 docent). That's part of the balance missing from "normal" play.

I'm grateful such fantastic people have made Mortal Voyage their home in Stormreach. I look forward to continued growth of our guild and progress to exciting higher level content.

[Ananvil]

Hi Parvo. I might be interested in this. I'll see if any of you all are on tonight. Thinking about a Tower Shielding dwarf fighter. I'll take the hits, you guys knock em down.

[EinarMal]

Sounds awesome I am going to make a Dwarf battle cleric tonight and try and join.

[Duncani_Daho]

After having played with a great PD guild-- The Sublime-- on Thelanis for about a month, I feel no reservations about recommending the new PD guild on Argonnessen. Mortaly Voyage Permadeath Guild as been exactly the experience I have been seeking from DDO since I beta tested. Just because the game design overlooked the benefits of PD style play doesn't mean that players can't make their own.

It's been a great month questing with Mortal Voyage.

I'll be away for a few weeks, maybe more, but my main (Level 6, 28 pt. build elven ranger) has 396 favor, after barely surviving a solo attempt at the first part of Splinterskull with no healing whatsoever: no wands, no scrolls, no potions. Summon Nature's Ally, Longstrider, and 20 goblinoid bane arrows were the only things between me and death. Well, that and the +1 acid Khopesh of Maiming which I bought from the broker in House D. I realized I was short several hundred gold, so in order to afford that I had to sprint over to the Hammersmith, drink a potion of Eagle's Splendor, use my ranger skills boost, sell about 4 major items, and then sprint back to the broker and pray my blade was still there. It was.

Now I can only dream of the day when I will reach level 9 and get Improved Crits with that Khopesh. Great game, great guild.

Can't wait to return. Cheers all,

Movan, Mortal Voyage

[Ananvil]

Joined up last night with my brother. We had a great time, and we only witnessed one death. (sorry Broad)

Its a completely different experience. (But next time you guys wanna take on that warlock throwing fireballs, you do it on your own, I had like four heart attacks there.)

Now if only that stupid mushroom vendor will start giving me healing potions rather than Potions of Jump.

-Torpid

[ErgonomicCat]

Joined up last night with my brother. We had a great time, and we only witnessed one death. (sorry Broad)

Its a completely different experience. (But next time you guys wanna take on that warlock throwing fireballs, you do it on your own, I had like four heart attacks there.)

Now if only that stupid mushroom vendor will start giving me healing potions rather than Potions of Jump.

-Torpid

Go to the one down in the Harbor, near Baudry's quests. She gives heals. The one by the first tavern is a mug's game.

[ErgonomicCat]

I doubt there are many campaigns where the DM allows each player to stop by Monty's Magic Hall before a quest and pick out a 12-pack of cure mod wands and a stack of Raise Dead scrolls while hand picking a Keg of exactly the resist potion they need for the specific quest.

Most of my campaigns, I allow it, actually.

I figure that magic items are the only thing that comes and goes quickly. Levels take a while. Stuff is a game to game reward. So denying someone the magic item they need for a sense of realism isn't worth doing. I'll enforce gp limits (Sorry, no, you can't find a +5 Holy Vorpal longsword in the peasant village), but unless it's a custom item, I usually let PCs buy what they want. If they're asking for anything in the DMG, or the MIC, I typically let them find it in a reasonably large town, especially if it's a useful, high demand item.

/tangent

Re: Hardest difficulty:

You maximize XP by running each diff once at least. I don't see any reason to restrict that, especially since always running Elite means you don't have a chance to try tactics and learn how to play on the easier levels. I know you want to be challenged, but that'll drive people away in the end, I think.

[parvo]

Most of my campaigns, I allow it, actually.

I figure that magic items are the only thing that comes and goes quickly. Levels take a while. Stuff is a game to game reward. So denying someone the magic item they need for a sense of realism isn't worth doing. I'll enforce gp limits (Sorry, no, you can't find a +5 Holy Vorpal longsword in the peasant village), but unless it's a custom item, I usually let PCs buy what they want. If they're asking for anything in the DMG, or the MIC, I typically let them find it in a reasonably large town, especially if it's a useful, high demand item.

/tangent

Re: Hardest difficulty:

You maximize XP by running each diff once at least. I don't see any reason to restrict that, especially since always running Elite means you don't have a chance to try tactics and learn how to play on the easier levels. I know you want to be challenged, but that'll drive people away in the end, I think.

I understand the aprehension about the latest rule. I had similar initial thoughts but after talking to people that actually used the rule in other guilds, I decided to give it a try. The result has been great so far.

I know a few people that try to run every quest three times. Personally I don't see the point and PD players that do, tend to spend almost all of their time in the harbor. If by "maximizing XP" you mean running things on normal when the party is over-powered for it, then I do see the point. But that's not what Mortal Voyage was created for. Stormreach isn't running out of XP any time soon so skipping normal or hard doesn't leave anyone short on XP. We don't run every quest on elite. If anyone isn't comfortable, we can do a different quest that no one has done. As far as people being driven away, all I can say is the guild is about three weeks old and has a very healthy and growing membership. We get new members almost every day, and we're already up to two groups at peak times.

[Khurse]

Are there enough low level groups running that I'll (usually) have someone to adventure with? (I'd assume so-but maybe yer all elite vet types. dunno)

Thieves seem to be difficult to play- how about Sorcerer's ?

And if I think I'd like to try this (sounds tempting, at least it will give me an excuse for my constant rerolling of characters..) who should I contact?

[murdzia]

Khurse, just log on with the character you would like to join with and go to the Who panel and sort by guild. When you find a member of Mortal Voyage just send them a tell and they would be happy to send you an invite.

I'm on most weekday mornings between 9-12 EST. So if you are on at that time you can send a tell to 'Ryego'. Hope to see you in game soon.

[parvo]

Are there enough low level groups running that I'll (usually) have someone to adventure with? (I'd assume so-but maybe yer all elite vet types. dunno)

Thieves seem to be difficult to play- how about Sorcerer's ?

And if I think I'd like to try this (sounds tempting, at least it will give me an excuse for my constant rerolling of characters..) who should I contact?


Although some members are progressing to mid-levels, most have alternate lowbie characters too. You shouldn't have any problem finding a group. If we have a full group when the seventh player logs on, we split group (as soon as we finish our current task) and form two groups. That has been the case during peak evening hours as we're up to two groups at that time.

[Khurse]

K sent a PM to Parvo about this, but then realized I have no idea what the guy's schedule is like sooo

- What kind of class seems to be in short supply atm?
I'm new to this- highest char is lvl 5 so I have no experience at playing anything and no real concerns about what I play for the guild.
(Except Bard..have no interest in Bards)
Wizard?Barb?Cleric?

Anything needed more than something else?

Also
- I know you can run away, but is it generally considered Ok to run screaming
if there's a party member or two up? Just thinking of some of the other parties I've seen wipe, and usually there was a point where I thought "We're dead"
But I don't want to run out on a group that may still have some guys fighting..

[Findecano]

K sent a PM to Parvo about this, but then realized I have no idea what the guy's schedule is like sooo

- What kind of class seems to be in short supply atm?
I'm new to this- highest char is lvl 5 so I have no experience at playing anything and no real concerns about what I play for the guild.
(Except Bard..have no interest in Bards)
Wizard?Barb?Cleric?

Anything needed more than something else?

Also
- I know you can run away, but is it generally considered Ok to run screaming
if there's a party member or two up? Just thinking of some of the other parties I've seen wipe, and usually there was a point where I thought "We're dead"
But I don't want to run out on a group that may still have some guys fighting..

Play whatever you like. Any class that you create will be of use to every group we run. A lot of people start new characters to play with those who just join or who are rerolling due to dying.

As in the fight or flight question, here is my view on it. If you have two paths in front of you and one leads to death while the other leads to life, which would you take? The question seems obvious after you look at it that way. In any case, the group leader or an experienced player will say "run!" if you're going to die. I haven't been in a group that hasn't yet.

[Borror0]

32-pt builds can't easily be disallowed because if someone has 32-pt available, they can't create 28-pt custom non-Drow builds. The system forces them to spend all 32 ability points during character creation.!

I recall my roomate talking about being able to press next when you have spent 28 points.

[FoeHammer]

Hey Parvo,

I am glad to hear that your guild is alive and successful.

We miss you in the Sublime!

If I come and visit Argo - you have to come after Ruin with me ;)

[GeneralDiomedes]

You maximize XP by running each diff once at least. I don't see any reason to restrict that, especially since always running Elite means you don't have a chance to try tactics and learn how to play on the easier levels. I know you want to be challenged, but that'll drive people away in the end, I think.

This fallacy kind of bugs me, actually.

The reality is that there are more than enough quests in the game to attain the equivalent character level if you complete them on every difficulty.

I have a level 6.1 character who has adhered to these rules, and I have capitalized on probably about 1/3 of the maximum possible XP attainable by doing every quest up to that level on normal/hard/elite. You could drive an airship through the wiggle room available.

The underlying objection to this rule that comes to mind is that people don't want to be eventually forced to do difficult quests. To me that kind of defeats the point of a hardcore ruleset. You may drive away certain people, but you will attract others in the same motion.

[parvo]

^^^^^^

Kinda bugs me too. Not because people shouldn't play how they want but because it's perpetuating a myth.

If you do every quest on every level (solo, norm, hard and elite), you will outlevel the quests. By the time you get to the level three quests, your character is level four and taking a -10% XP penalty. By the time you hit level six quests, your character is level eight, taking an even larger penalty. In addition, you should consider your groupmates. If they already did normal, they aren't getting the first-time bonus, but they are racking up another completion. With enough completions, there is further XP penalty.

I understand some people might want to do this anyway, and the rules don't dissallow it. However, don't blame the ruleset if it's hard to find a group. Questing "in perfect order" is the culprit. You woudn't find groups in any public guild that are progressing in lock step. My suggestion for players who want to quest "in order" is to make a character capable of soloing.

[parvo]

The website is up! Thanks to Kandros for all the help.

It's pretty raw and the wording of the rules needs to be standardized, but give us a few days to square things away.

[Ananvil]

The website is down?

[blakbyrd]

In response to the difficulty setting discussion here:

Yes, many points being brought up are quite valid, and yes on occasion people do end up skipping difficulties because of the "do each quest on the highest available difficulty standard". That is quite true.

However, the situation is not exactly as important in permadeath play vs the play of non-pd. Because of the very nature of PD play, we have new characters all the time, and fewer at higher levels. This continues a constant cycle of opening up quests for the first time. We encourage grouping of course, but for the most part we are all well aware of the status of our current difficult settings on each player. I rarely see an andventure entered where people don't ask what difficulty people are on. For those who want to do each difficulty, we try to group accordingly or pull in alts that are on the same difficulty. It really isnt that difficult because of the nature of PD itself. As we pull in more new members those options get even better.

Still it does happen as people have mentioned from time to time, but we do try to compensate for this very thing. We are a pretty patient lot, so it's not a bid deal for someone to volunteer to sit out a run and wait for them to finish a difficulty they didnt want to skip.

The rule itself has a purpose though which to try to keep everyone on as similar a playing field as everyone else. It helps to try to negate the potential for someone to just keep repeating an easy quest to going easy XP. It is a tough thing to always balance appropriately, but we do not dismiss that fact. We take it into account and work together to help accomplish everything in whatever manner people find to be fun. No one is ever forced to do anything they don't want to, or to skip something they dont want to skip. We do what we can to make it fun for everybody, but in order to also maintain a balance and fairness to everyone, certain rules need to be in effect.

Still, those are just our rules, not the rules of all PD guilds. Others differ. Maybe our rules arent really what you want, but that shouldnt mean that PD itself isnt right for you. I used to be skeptical of PD, but since I joined I havent played anything but PD, and I enjoy it alot, much moreso than the long days of boredom I have been having in non-PD as of late.

[parvo]

The website is down?

My company just blocked the forum part for Pornography. Dunno what's up. Can't tell from here. It's possible that porn spammers got in. Or maybe Landros is working on things.

I just got home and tried the site. It says The Account Has Been Suspended. Please contact the support/billing department. I have not the slightest clue what's going on.

[Blairgowrie]

Oi oi Lepto:

Noted that as well, it was working fine yesterday as I signed up .... ooops maybe I broke it:eek:

If you call your host, they should be able to tell you pretty quickly what the issue is!!

Cheers

Blair

[FoeHammer]

I just created an account and posted Thur too.

Site looked good for the initial stages!

[parvo]

Landros got the website back up. Please give him a big thanks when you see him around.

[Ananvil]

Is the website down again?

[LongLive]

Mortal Voyage is a no-twink Permadeath guild on Argonnessen. Our rule set is inspired by classic paper and pencil campaigns. Complete rules can be found here: www.mortalvoyage.com


The following is a summary of rules found at the above link. If you are interested, visit the website. To join, you must agree to the letter and spirit of the Mortal Voyage rules.

---1. Your character must be level one when joining the guild
---2. No spoilers. Don’t talk about what is coming up in a quest.
---3. If your character dies, it is deleted or leaves the guild.
---4. If your character dies, surviving party members may loot one item (or stack of items) from your corpse.
Exception; you may designate one item as an heirloom.
---5. If your character dies, any unrecovered equipment is deleted, sold for guild funded events or transfered out of the guild. Bank items and money included.
---6. Do not use the auction house to buy or sell.
---7. Do not purchase commodity magic items from vendors (wands, potions, scrolls, etc). Pawnbroker purchase is OK. Non-magic purchase is OK. Favor-related vendors are OK.
---8. Do not exit and re-enter an active quest.
Exception; you may re-enter a quest to save a fellow group-mate who needs assistance.
---9. No PUGing.
---10. Do not accept gifts of any sort from characters outside the guild.
---11. No Twinking. Do not pass any item, gear or money to any other character. This includes your own characters within the guild.
Exception; you can trade collectibles and consumable items like potions, wands and scrolls within the guild at any level.
Exception; Group-mates can share items that are found in chests within an adventure.
---12. No “tag-alongs”. You may not “tag-along” in a quest just for item drops. If you’re getting no XP from power leveling, you are tagging along. Don’t do it.
---13. Run quests on the highest available difficulty.


Since the website is now up, we will be keeping the official rules there. Discussion can continue here as well.

I rember this being tryed on mabar by edrill if i rember right, ended up with there being problems in the end...

But i will admit its a cool fun idea, and makes u rethink play alot best of luck.

[parvo]

I rember this being tryed on mabar by edrill if i rember right, ended up with there being problems in the end...

But i will admit its a cool fun idea, and makes u rethink play alot best of luck.

What problems?

[parvo]

Still growing and recruiting. Come join us!

[Shankd_Dream]

i would love to join...

[parvo]

Grats to:
Broadkanne (5 Paladin/2 Fighter)
Favourflave (4 Paladin/2 Rogue/1 Fighter)
Jorto (6 Cleric)
The group managed Gwylan's Stand. There were a few close calls including one moment where Flave insisted on using almost every one of his hit points :). But the group made it through. No twinking. No spoilers. No deaths. Nice teamwork!

[parvo]

A belated congratulations to Flave who made character level ten. Too belated... Here's to the life Flavourflave had and to better built Flavourflave II!