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[SpartanKiller13]

So I really wanna make a dragonborn paly, but all I find is old builds- I dont have much content unlocked but got the race from the sale. Is it even possible to reach 20+ or 20 should be my goal and then reincarnate.
Sorry for the silly question I started playing few days ago. Thanks in advance!

Welcome!

Well, DDO has a pretty decent amount of F2P content but it does slow down in later heroics (15+ mostly). You can definitely go the whole way F2P, but you'll probably end up repeating a bit of stuff as you get towards 20. Generally if you plan on reincarnating a lot most players will recommend you pick up a few packs for later Heroics, but if you farm favor a bit you can do it with DDO points you earned along the way (you get 25 points for every 100 favor you earn; after your first life you can open Hard, and after your 2nd Elite which makes favor farming much easier). There's also December Deals going on currently if you're interested in spending a lil cash.

As far as going 20+ vs reincarnating at 20, I'd definitely say try it! 20 to ~28 is mostly run on low difficulties even by vets b/c it's way faster to hit high-XP quests ("Dailies") so you'll be able to contribute quite solidly in many leveling groups :) If you make it to 30 you can Epic Reincarnate back to 20 and then True Reincarnate from 20-1, and get an Epic Past Life as well as a Heroic Past Life in one go :)

As far as a Paladin 20 build, there aren't so many recent ones b/c it's pretty straightforward to vets - most of the choices are pretty clear-cut once you've been around a bit. You really want to go THF and Dragonborn already has Str and Cha bonuses which are exactly what you want, so it rolls from there.

Stats (after racial modifiers):
16 (18) Str (all level-up points here)
8 (6) Dex
14 Con
8 Int
10 Wis
16 (18) Cha

Strength is your hitting stat, so you generally want as much as possible. Cha makes your Lay on Hands (burst heals) much better, improves your saves (via Divine Grace) and boosts your DPS/tactics a bit via Divine Might. Starting 10 Wis is just QoL to allow you to spellcast more easily past level 4.

Feats:
(1) Two-Handed Fighting - grab a two-handed stick (Falchion > Greatsword > Greataxe > Maul) and go ham
(3) Power Attack - this is a toggle stance, sort your feats tab by "active" and I think it's under "Martial Feats" then drag it to a hotbar and toggle it on. Leave it somewhere you'll notice when logging in, next to stuff like Defender stances.
(6) Improved THF - more betterer melee
(9) Improved Critical: Slashing (by now just Greatswords except for like skeleton beaters)
(12) Greater THF - by now your melee is pretty solid
(15) flexible
(18) flexible
(21) Overwhelming Critical - more DPS
(24) flexible or Great Ability:Strength
(26D) Perfect THF - big DPS boost, requires a capped Primal Epic Destiny
(27) Blinding Speed - DPS and move speed
(28D) Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting - gives 5% Doublestrike which is like 3-4% DPS boost
29D) Dire Charge - very nice active AoE stun, requires 3 capped Martial Destinies; take whatever if you can't hit that
(30) Epic Damage Reduction - survivability
(30L) Scion of Arborea - solid DPS boost

For the Flexible feat options, if you're failing Will saves get Force of Personality. Grab Toughness if you feel squishy (can grab twice). Weapon Focus & Power Critical are a slight DPS boost, but they're pretty minor. Magical Training prevents you from running out of spell points (good for long quests when solo, not very impactful otherwise). Extra Turning is nice if you're going into epics, but useless otherwise.

Enhancements:
Grab first Knight of the Chalice Core
Put 4 AP into Sacred Defender for extra Lay on Hands
Get KotC Strikethrough
Get SaD's Durable Defense III, and Sacred Defense ASAP - hotbar this next to Power Attack and leave it on
Spend in KotC for a while; get Exalted Attack Cleave, Cores whenever possible, Holy Combatant to T3 (swap to Greatswords only from here on)
Back to SaD for T3 Tenacious Defense (+20% HP is very nice)
Afterwards keep spending in KotC; grab +2 Str, the T5 whenever you can, always Cores, Melee Power Boost, Healamp, etc.
Then back into SaD for cores, and T4 for +6 Str and +10% Movespeed (as well as Cha)

Endgame you want 41 AP into KotC (T5, capstone), 31 into SaD (core 5, stance, etc) and 8 leftovers for cool stuff or racial. Swap the SaD stance from +20% HP to +6 Con when you hit level 21 and get access to Epic Defensive Fighting (toggle that on as well).

[RodopianYeti]

Welcome!

Well, DDO has a pretty decent amount of F2P content but it does slow down in later heroics (15+ mostly). You can definitely go the whole way F2P, but you'll probably end up repeating a bit of stuff as you get towards 20. Generally if you plan on reincarnating a lot most players will recommend you pick up a few packs for later Heroics, but if you farm favor a bit you can do it with DDO points you earned along the way (you get 25 points for every 100 favor you earn; after your first life you can open Hard, and after your 2nd Elite which makes favor farming much easier). There's also December Deals going on currently if you're interested in spending a lil cash.

As far as going 20+ vs reincarnating at 20, I'd definitely say try it! 20 to ~28 is mostly run on low difficulties even by vets b/c it's way faster to hit high-XP quests ("Dailies") so you'll be able to contribute quite solidly in many leveling groups :) If you make it to 30 you can Epic Reincarnate back to 20 and then True Reincarnate from 20-1, and get an Epic Past Life as well as a Heroic Past Life in one go :)

As far as a Paladin 20 build, there aren't so many recent ones b/c it's pretty straightforward to vets - most of the choices are pretty clear-cut once you've been around a bit. You really want to go THF and Dragonborn already has Str and Cha bonuses which are exactly what you want, so it rolls from there.

Stats (after racial modifiers):
16 (18) Str (all level-up points here)
8 (6) Dex
14 Con
8 Int
10 Wis
16 (18) Cha

Strength is your hitting stat, so you generally want as much as possible. Cha makes your Lay on Hands (burst heals) much better, improves your saves (via Divine Grace) and boosts your DPS/tactics a bit via Divine Might. Starting 10 Wis is just QoL to allow you to spellcast more easily past level 4.

Feats:
(1) Two-Handed Fighting - grab a two-handed stick (Falchion > Greatsword > Greataxe > Maul) and go ham
(3) Power Attack - this is a toggle stance, sort your feats tab by "active" and I think it's under "Martial Feats" then drag it to a hotbar and toggle it on. Leave it somewhere you'll notice when logging in, next to stuff like Defender stances.
(6) Improved THF - more betterer melee
(9) Improved Critical: Slashing (by now just Greatswords except for like skeleton beaters)
(12) Greater THF - by now your melee is pretty solid
(15) flexible
(18) flexible
(21) Overwhelming Critical - more DPS
(24) flexible or Great Ability:Strength
(26D) Perfect THF - big DPS boost, requires a capped Primal Epic Destiny
(27) Blinding Speed - DPS and move speed
(28D) Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting - gives 5% Doublestrike which is like 3-4% DPS boost
29D) Dire Charge - very nice active AoE stun, requires 3 capped Martial Destinies; take whatever if you can't hit that
(30) Epic Damage Reduction - survivability
(30L) Scion of Arborea - solid DPS boost

For the Flexible feat options, if you're failing Will saves get Force of Personality. Grab Toughness if you feel squishy (can grab twice). Weapon Focus & Power Critical are a slight DPS boost, but they're pretty minor. Magical Training prevents you from running out of spell points (good for long quests when solo, not very impactful otherwise). Extra Turning is nice if you're going into epics, but useless otherwise.

Enhancements:
Grab first Knight of the Chalice Core
Put 4 AP into Sacred Defender for extra Lay on Hands
Get KotC Strikethrough
Get SaD's Durable Defense III, and Sacred Defense ASAP - hotbar this next to Power Attack and leave it on
Spend in KotC for a while; get Exalted Attack Cleave, Cores whenever possible, Holy Combatant to T3 (swap to Greatswords only from here on)
Back to SaD for T3 Tenacious Defense (+20% HP is very nice)
Afterwards keep spending in KotC; grab +2 Str, the T5 whenever you can, always Cores, Melee Power Boost, Healamp, etc.
Then back into SaD for cores, and T4 for +6 Str and +10% Movespeed (as well as Cha)

Endgame you want 41 AP into KotC (T5, capstone), 31 into SaD (core 5, stance, etc) and 8 leftovers for cool stuff or racial. Swap the SaD stance from +20% HP to +6 Con when you hit level 21 and get access to Epic Defensive Fighting (toggle that on as well).

Thanks a lot, I already started my pally it is almost the same start but I started with reduced wisdom and pumped it up with item, so I can follow this build from now, I have played the game back in 2009 or 2010 but never a above lvl 4-5 ( back then Butcher's path was hardcore dungeon for me) Any advice which gear I should focus and where I can farm some decend gear (I got the White mountain pack and got the sword from there it is amazing but not many other packs)

[SpartanKiller13]

Thanks a lot, I already started my pally it is almost the same start but I started with reduced wisdom and pumped it up with item, so I can follow this build from now, I have played the game back in 2009 or 2010 but never a above lvl 4-5 ( back then Butcher's path was hardcore dungeon for me) Any advice which gear I should focus and where I can farm some decend gear (I got the White mountain pack and got the sword from there it is amazing but not many other packs)

Yeah starting lower Wis is just fine, just requires you to itemize it or have a stack of Owl's Wisdom pots. I generally recommend new people to save themselves the hassle lol, but there's no problem if you started with 8 Wis.

The best gear is basically always the newer stuff, with raid items > newer named items > randomgen > old named stuff. If all you have is WPM, look at the stuff that drops in that pack and farm some out? I'd be looking at - in about this order:


Precison Lenses (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Precision_Lenses) from WPM - for Ins Str, Action Boosts, Manslayer, and Melee Alacrity. Very good.
Platinum Prayer Beads (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Platinum_Prayer_Beads) from Another Man's Treasure - for all your healing needs and a lil Dodge.
Sapphire-Studded Buckles (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sapphire_Studded_Buckles) from Kind of a Big Deal - as a Shield clicky, which provides Immunity to Magic Missiles for 5 minutes 3x/rest.
Either Coldharbor Cladding (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Coldharbor_Cladding) or Confiscated Heavy Mail (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Confiscated_Heavy_Mail) from Price of Freedom - armor, has Dusk and +4 Con.
Memories of the Mighty (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Memories_of_the_Mighty) from Memory Lapse - as a Str item; they're kinda meh unless you don't have a Str item already (or if you took Stunning Blow somewhere).

But really, if you want an optimal gearset you're kinda stuck getting an expansion; Feywild, Ravenloft, and Sharn can all do a gearset fairly well by themselves (at 5, 10, and 15 respectively for Heroic gear - all are 29 for Epic gear). Otherwise, just look for good items and try to get the useful stats for yourself :) and don't worry too much about doubling up if the other parts of an item are good (like a Str/Con item and a Str/Deadly item).

Keep an eye on the Auction House for gear with stats you want. Otherwise, if you have an empty slot have a look at the Wiki and sort by level; aim for an item within ~3 levels of where you are (so level 9 look for ~6-10's). Like if you want a cloak, go looking at the Wiki page for back items (https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Back_items); at ML9 there's a bunch but many are from P2P quests; however, Cloak of Invisibility (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Cloak_of_Invisibility) is from Tempest Spine which is F2P and IIRC the chest is fairly farmable - the cloak itself gives Ghostly which is pretty great, and it's an Invisibility clicky. Neat! You'll eventually want one, even if you don't use it all the time :)

[Disco_Violante]

Hi and thanks in advance! I recently came back to the game after a 2 year break and decided to start playing on a new server...

I was thinking I'd like to try to start this toon off by getting the Scoundrel +30% move speed stance and Barbarian +30 hp in the first three lives...
I've already unlocked 32 point builds and have access to all the universal trees. I'll probably use a +8 supreme tome on this one, since I'm already grinding out the +5 tomes from favor on my first toon on that server.

I really appreciate any help with the build and gear suggestions that are easy to farm... don't have much on hand but a Carnifex.

Thanks!

[SpartanKiller13]

I was thinking I'd like to try to start this toon off by getting the Scoundrel +30% move speed stance and Barbarian +30 hp in the first three lives...
I've already unlocked 32 point builds and have access to all the universal trees. I'll probably use a +8 supreme tome on this one, since I'm already grinding out the +5 tomes from favor on my first toon on that server.

I really appreciate any help with the build and gear suggestions that are easy to farm... don't have much on hand but a Carnifex.

Welcome back!

Alright, so your build priorities are Barbarian PL and Scoundrel PL. How interesting of a build do you want?

The obvious is just 18/1/1 Barbarian/Bard/Fighter and basically just pretend you're a Barbarian. THF is by far the way to go, and you get a bonus feat and cheap access to Haste Action Boost from Fighter's Kensei tree. Run Frenzied Berserker (https://ddowiki.com/page/Frenzied_Berserker_enhancements) with a Falchion and you'll be in a great spot (FB is one of the best trees in DDO currently). Could also 18/2 Barbarian/Bard and use En Pointe (https://ddowiki.com/page/Swashbuckler_enhancements#Tier_Two) in epics if you throw on a spellpower item/augment. It's a double-cleave and now should get Doublestrike as well so it should be pretty good lategame.

You could also do the above, but dip Cleric 6 and play a Silvanus Maul build; your best T5 then is Ravager, which will make you a lot more sustainable with Blood Strength, but you can still go pretty heavily into FB for Strikethrough etc.

If you want a more Bardy build, you could even run Bard 4+ and throw Sustaining Song on top of your existing regen; mostly matters for N/H/E but still helps in R1 (I wouldn't bother past that, but if you're just after fast lives you probs won't be pushing skulls). Costs 22 AP into an enhancement tree that's flaming hot garbage for a Barbarian (Spellsinger Wiki (https://ddowiki.com/page/Spellsinger_enhancements)) and you'll want to gear Devotion, but you can pretty easily be getting 40+ healing per tick every 2s (I'll get better numbers when I get home later) by level 20. Run with FB T5 and get the regen there and you're unstopppppable lol. Not sure it beats Ravager for trash-clearing but it's a lot nicer in parties (as you don't need to land finishing blow to get heals, and party benefits from your healing too :) ). Since you have Scoundrel I'd highly encourage you make a test toon before trying out my shenanigans though (and make sure you put some skill points into Perform lol).

Strength-based THF builds are really straightforward though. THF x3, Improved Critical (Slashing for most, Bludgeoning if Silvanus), Power Attack, and then you're good for whatever. Cleave & Great Cleave are pretty nice for some AoE especially earlier on, or with Dex 13 (including tomes) Dodge > Mobility > Spring Attack is pretty nice for some extra mobility.

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For gear, do you have access to Sharn? It's pretty much the optimal place to farm gear for Iconics, being ML15 and having strong sets. Many vets will load up a Sharn item set at level 15 and just use it until level 29 when they swap to their Legendary stuff. Usually the default melee set is Part of the Family, here's a Wiki link (https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Part_of_the_Family_set_items) for that.

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LMK what sounds interesting or awful or what further details you want! I'll be happy to go a bit further into any of these or whatever else seems good.

[Disco_Violante]

Cool, thanks! I do have Sharn, so I'll spend some time there. It all sounds good and I do have 3 lives to run. I think I can figure out the first two fairly easy for two of them, it would be great to see the cleric-y build or bard-y build and would be nice to have a build that could run R1/2 without apologizing for eating up raise scrolls, whichever seems better for that :)
Thanks again!


Welcome back!

Alright, so your build priorities are Barbarian PL and Scoundrel PL. How interesting of a build do you want?

The obvious is just 18/1/1 Barbarian/Bard/Fighter and basically just pretend you're a Barbarian. THF is by far the way to go, and you get a bonus feat and cheap access to Haste Action Boost from Fighter's Kensei tree. Run Frenzied Berserker (https://ddowiki.com/page/Frenzied_Berserker_enhancements) with a Falchion and you'll be in a great spot (FB is one of the best trees in DDO currently). Could also 18/2 Barbarian/Bard and use En Pointe (https://ddowiki.com/page/Swashbuckler_enhancements#Tier_Two) in epics if you throw on a spellpower item/augment. It's a double-cleave and now should get Doublestrike as well so it should be pretty good lategame.

You could also do the above, but dip Cleric 6 and play a Silvanus Maul build; your best T5 then is Ravager, which will make you a lot more sustainable with Blood Strength, but you can still go pretty heavily into FB for Strikethrough etc.

If you want a more Bardy build, you could even run Bard 4+ and throw Sustaining Song on top of your existing regen; mostly matters for N/H/E but still helps in R1 (I wouldn't bother past that, but if you're just after fast lives you probs won't be pushing skulls). Costs 22 AP into an enhancement tree that's flaming hot garbage for a Barbarian (Spellsinger Wiki (https://ddowiki.com/page/Spellsinger_enhancements)) and you'll want to gear Devotion, but you can pretty easily be getting 40+ healing per tick every 2s (I'll get better numbers when I get home later) by level 20. Run with FB T5 and get the regen there and you're unstopppppable lol. Not sure it beats Ravager for trash-clearing but it's a lot nicer in parties (as you don't need to land finishing blow to get heals, and party benefits from your healing too :) ). Since you have Scoundrel I'd highly encourage you make a test toon before trying out my shenanigans though (and make sure you put some skill points into Perform lol).

Strength-based THF builds are really straightforward though. THF x3, Improved Critical (Slashing for most, Bludgeoning if Silvanus), Power Attack, and then you're good for whatever. Cleave & Great Cleave are pretty nice for some AoE especially earlier on, or with Dex 13 (including tomes) Dodge > Mobility > Spring Attack is pretty nice for some extra mobility.

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For gear, do you have access to Sharn? It's pretty much the optimal place to farm gear for Iconics, being ML15 and having strong sets. Many vets will load up a Sharn item set at level 15 and just use it until level 29 when they swap to their Legendary stuff. Usually the default melee set is Part of the Family, here's a Wiki link (https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Part_of_the_Family_set_items) for that.

------

LMK what sounds interesting or awful or what further details you want! I'll be happy to go a bit further into any of these or whatever else seems good.

[SpartanKiller13]

Cool, thanks! I do have Sharn, so I'll spend some time there. It all sounds good and I do have 3 lives to run. I think I can figure out the first two fairly easy for two of them, it would be great to see the cleric-y build or bard-y build and would be nice to have a build that could run R1/2 without apologizing for eating up raise scrolls, whichever seems better for that :)
Thanks again!

Well, the Barbarian secret to not eating rez scrolls is in FB's T2; just mash the Blood Tribute button whenever there's a problem. Also, Improved Uncanny Dodge active from Barbarian 8+ is a ton of survivability (+50% Dodge ignoring Dodge cap) and you can usually rotate that with Meld T3 twist from Shadowdancer (https://ddowiki.com/page/Shadowdancer#Tier_Three) pretty effectively.

Aside from that, try to keep your defensive gear up-to-date and you'll be doing pretty well :) Barbarian gets a lot of Healing Amp and some reasonable HP bonuses to get you going.

Be aware that Heroic Elite is pretty comparable to Epic Hard difficulty-wise, and Epic Elite is a big step up from there. Especially if you don't have your Destinies filled out, it's pretty common to run a lot of EN/EH in early epics and then move up to Reaper at level 29+ where the gear spike is huge (from like Legendary Sharn/Ravenloft/Feywild gear and raid gear etc).

As an Iconic, you start at level 15. As a Str-based THF toon, you don't really have feat pre-requisites to worry about unless you want Spring Attack or don't plan on raging (and thus want Precision > Power Attack). With +5 Dex tome you can either start 10 Dex and grab Dex feats early (they have Dex 13 pre-requisite) or start Dex 8 and pick them up later (like 15/18/24).

General Feats:
1: Two-Handed Fighting
3: Power Attack
6: Improved THF
9: Improved Critical: Slashing
12: Greater THF
21: Overwhelming Critical
26D: Perfect THF
27: Blinding Speed
28D: Perfect TWF (for Doublestrike
29D: Dire Charge
30: Epic Damage Reduction
30L: Scion of Arborea

Leaves you with 15/18/24 as free feats, +1 if /1 Fighter. If you multiclass and have lower Base Attack Bonus, just push feats back as needed. For general feat options honestly the Toughness line isn't bad (two heroic, and with 16+ starting Con you can take Epic Toughness) for like 140 HP by cap. For more trash-clearing, Cleave & Great Cleave are pretty nice as well, but starting with GTHF you won't need them as much as a toon starting at level 1.

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Well, upon further inspection Scoundrel is apparently an Eberron race, so they can't run Silvanus. Pretty big letdown to me, sorry to get your hopes up. Still worth considering Cleric for a defensive option - via Luck Domain's Displacement, but I guess you won't get sick DPS as well.

For a Cleric build, take ~8 levels starting after you're Bard 1 Barbarian 8 (so level 10 is first Cleric level). You'll have Improved Uncanny Dodge plus Displacement at 15 when you start playing, and take Extend Spell as your level 12 feat pushing GTHF back to 15. You can't cast spells while raging, but your Displacement SLA (which you can Extend for free via right-click) lasts over a minute and you can freely dismiss Rage > cast Lesser Restoration > Displace > Rage to get that sweet sweet 50% concealment (miss chance, but separate roll compared to like Dodge). Cleric 8 (vs just 6) gives access to Deathward, Freedom of Movement, and Restoration or Divine Power as well as longer Displace, where Barbarian 12-13 is pretty meh.

A Cleric split would cost you some DPS (since no Silvanus and no higher Barbarian cores) but increase your survivability by a pretty decent margin. Displacement isn't foolproof, but it's pretty easily 40% mitigation as an average and DWard+FoM as well as self-healing between rages is pretty great. Just make sure you grab +6 rages from T1 FB so you can afford to waste a bunch lol.

Depending on your AP split later on you can also go into Warpriest and grab Ameliorating Strike and 10% Doublestrike (https://ddowiki.com/page/Warpriest_enhancements#Tier_Four) which are pretty great. I'd pick up Magical Backlash along the way as well :) Ameliorating Strike is a fairly respectable AoE heal for when you're mid-fight - especially if you gear some Positive Spellpower :)

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For a Bard split you need 4+ Bard so you get 16 or less Barbarian; enhancement cores are 12/18 and Barbarian class features only matter at 11/20 or so. Bard breakpoints are 7/9, but 9 is just 20 temps/10s so the Barbarian cores giving like 60 max HP are almost certainly better. So 12/4/x and see where that goes? /4 Warlock for Brilliance (https://ddowiki.com/page/Enlightened_Spirit_enhancements#Tier_Four) makes me laugh, but while an aura Barbarian would be pretty funny and have a lot of AoE sustain it locks you out of EDF (https://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Defensive_Fighting) so it's probably just bad. /4 Fighter for feats is also pretty respectable, or just more Bard for access to Displacement (the expensive version).

I'd probably do 12/7/1 Barbarian/Bard/Fighter; the Fighter bonus feat is nice, and if you pick up Extend Spell you can have Displacement up at least a lot of the time using similar tactics to the Cleric split. You'll have to be more careful with spell points, but you'll need less healing and you can get some bonus SP from Spellsinger. Make sure you put skill points into Perform, or you can't use your Bard stuff.

Enhancements - 24 AP Spellsinger - Core 3, Studies: Magical Studies, Lingering Song, Sharp Note, Flicker, Raucous Refrain, Spell Song Trance, Sustaining Song, Frolic - this one's pretty limited in what you want lol.

Afterwards, T5/Core 4 into a Barbarian tree (FB is probably best for parties, Ravager for soloing, Occult Slayer is tankiest) and then leftovers into another Barbarian tree (if FB isn't your main tree, leftovers go there). 4 AP into Kensei will get you Haste Action Boost which is pretty awesome as a DPS booster.

Feat and leveling order is basically the same as above (start Bard 1, then take 8 Barbarian, then level Bard to 7); throw on Extend Spell and call it a day. Tomes and airship buffs will get you enough Cha to cast, and you don't need more than that.

Questing: hop in, throw some Bard songs, and use Fascinate (for Sharp Note) and Displacement whenever you're between rages or coming up on a bigger fight. Displacement + Improved Uncanny Dodge/Meld and heal over time via Sustaining Song should keep you pretty healthy (and you get a Barbarian T5 healing source as well, and Blood Tribute as a panic button).

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Honestly, after realizing you can't go Silvanus and considering the options I'd do the Bard split or just go mainline Barbarian. You get Displacement, enough SP to throw it enough, Freedom of Movement, and a heal-over-time effect so why bother with Cleric?

If you're going to do a deep split, I'd highly recommend making a test iconic. I'd test like 8/7 Barbarian/Bard to see how you like Sustaining Song and how much Displacement's short duration annoys you. Make sure you have a Devotion item or two on and ideally a Healamp item as well. If you have access to Ravenloft I'd definitely recommend farming a Silverthread Belt (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Silverthread_Belt) as well, as it's stacking positive spellpower which is exactly what you want lol.

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Questions/comments/concerns/complaints? XD

[Zbarb]

IF a first lifer tank build is even viable for end game (not reaper) i would like to request one.
Classes available: all but monk, alchemist (iconic only shadar-kai, pdk and morninglord)
Races available: base plus drow, gnome, warforged
For gear no feywild or sharn (hopefully this will change soon)

[SpartanKiller13]

IF a first lifer tank build is even viable for end game (not reaper) i would like to request one.
Classes available: all but monk, alchemist (iconic only shadar-kai, pdk and morninglord)
Races available: base plus drow, gnome, warforged
For gear no feywild or sharn (hopefully this will change soon)

What content do you want to be tanking? No-Reaper generally means EE, or do you mean like EE raids? There's different directions I'd recommend for each of those lol.

Ravenloft gear gets you most of the way, but be aware that Feywild is a pretty significant upgrade for the 4-piece Winter set (assuming you don't have like a billion Codex runes lol).

For first life EE questing as a tank with solid RL gear you can run like a SaD Paladin, or PM Wizard, or ES Warlock, or RMM Artificer, or Protection/Luck Domain Cleric, or BoH Favored Soul, or NP Bear Druid - without even worrying about multiclassing or shenanigans. Ravenloft gear + a bit of class-based PRR/MRR/mitigation + self-heals will get you through EE questing just fine. Run in Unyielding Sentinel, gear Sheltering/Saves and then add Devotion, Healamp, and throw Renewals lol.

Pure Fighter or Barbarian works with outside heals, and pure Sorc works with Warforged if you're careful.

All of these are fairly similar to standard builds, you're just trading most of your DPS for survivability stuff and that's enough for EE. Ravenloft tank set + Adherent set = much of what you're after.

What are you looking to achieve? Are there secondary goals like not being in EDF, or having self-heals or? Is there a specific strategy you're looking for?

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As far as raids, is there a certain set you run frequently or are there some you avoid etc? Like I don't think there's a first life tank out there who can tank THTH on EE lol (although without Sharn that's not an issue).

[Zbarb]

What content do you want to be tanking?
I should have included that :p Goal is to be able to bring a tank to my guild's raid in case no other is available. Does not have to be EE/LE some we run lower. Most common are Lhox, Ltempest, Lvod, Thunderpeak, KT.

Edit: and baba's

I'm on wayfinder i dont think there are any THTH completions on the server but once i get sharn PN is on the table.

[SpartanKiller13]

I should have included that :p Goal is to be able to bring a tank to my guild's raid in case no other is available. Does not have to be EE/LE some we run lower. Most common are Lhox, Ltempest, Lvod, Thunderpeak, KT.

Edit: and baba's

I'm on wayfinder i dont think there are any THTH completions on the server but once i get sharn PN is on the table.

I've reformatted this reply a bunch as I try to make it more coherent, but that's definitely left it a bit oddly laid out. Sorry!

For most of those raids the most important part for tanking is sustain; you don't need to aim for the stars, you just need defenses, sustain, and enough HP to not die in a few bad seconds. You'll generally be looking for some heal-over time style effects, as they're really efficient. Auras, AoE Heal effects, etc are also really good for raiding. Renewal will keep you healthy for most of the rest of it, but might as well heal your party too :)

Since you're in guild raids, I assume you'll have at least some off-heals going your way, but for KT you often want to be able to solo tank (which is sustain, MRR, & electric resist mostly for LN/LH) and for LTS you need to be able to survive Sor'jek's spike hits.

Honestly I'd skim over this thread (link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/510350-Selfhealing-raid-tank-(low-difficulties))) for some ideas. Since you're on Wayfinder I'll assume you don't always have the best raid party, so I'd be looking at a non-EDF tank so you can throw heals/rezzes at other people as needed (Renewal is really good for cheap, US gets SLA rez as well). This sorta sticks you with Paladin or Fighter 3, but does open up ES Warlock.

Paladin is really good for tanking; Sacred Defender tree gives a lot of stuff cheaply, has an awesome T5, and Paladins get Divine Grace which is a great saves bonus for any Cha build (which you'll have a bunch for Intimidate anyway). Breakpoints are level 3 (15 AP for 25 PRR/MRR, 1 Con, and +20% HP), level 4 (23 AP for that plus 7 Con), level 5 (36 AP and T5 for another 25 PRR/MRR, 100 HP, and 10% AC), and level 18 (Core 4 is another 10% HP and some PRR/MRR). You totally can just run a Sacred Defender tank, but once you've spent 41ish AP into that tree you have another 30ish to do very little with (12 AP into Falconry for 5% HP, 6 AP into VKF for Deflect Arrows and then what?). Ideally you'll want to multiclass a bit so you have multiple trees to spend AP into.

Here's some example builds:

20 Paladin - easy building, LoH for spike heals, SaD T5 and capstone is a lot of goodies. Lots of inbuilt PRR/MRR, saves are god-tier.
18/1/x Paladin/Warlock/x (Fighter gets you PDK = Silvanus = better DPS, or Warlock 2 gets +19 PRR) - like above but with more spell points, Feigned Health (https://ddowiki.com/page/Tainted_Scholar_enhancements#Tier_One), and options.
17/3 FvS/Paladin gets you SaD stance, 20% HP, FvS wings, and burst heals as well as a lot of Beacon of Hope which is pretty nice. Tons of SP, you're a healbot that can tank as well.
15/4/1 FvS/Paladin/Warlock gets you 7 Con and Feigned Health at the cost of wings. Can drop Warlock or Pally to 3 for FvS 16 for Death Pact if you're worried.
15/5 FvS/Paladin gets you SaD T5 which is pretty great, costs you your heal-wall but you'll still have lots of heals to go around.
6/4/x Warlock/Paladin gets you Brilliance (https://ddowiki.com/page/Enlightened_Spirit_enhancements#Tier_Four) every 4s, SaD stance, Feigned Health, and Stanch. (https://ddowiki.com/page/Tainted_Scholar_enhancements#Core_abilities) ES T5 is really nice - Displacement is crazy good, Shining Through is budget tanking in a nutshell, and you get ~17 PRR/MRR along the way which is pretty nice as well. You can also go Paladin T5 as desired (better tanking, worse sustain). Lots of leftover levels for this split (Cleric w/Animal or Protection, FvS with Stout of Heart, etc).
20 Wizard - easy to run, PM capstone means you're hilariously good at self-healing (like R6 good). Not as much PRR/MRR, you don't have party heals outside Renewal/Cocoon, and you have to swap between EDF (for HP) and no EDF (for ranged heals) which is a lil awkward. Extremely survivable though, especially with SLA Displacement.
20 Warlock - ES Capstone covers EDF loss, you get Brilliance + Shining Through and Displace SLA. Pretty solid, pretty standard. Not my favorite but very straightforward.


There's of course tons more depending on exactly what sort of goals you want to prioritize. Like I made a first-life raid tank (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/496530-First-Life-Iconic-LH-Raid-Tank?p=6139268&viewfull=1#post6139268) for Ravenloft a few years back (moderately out-of-date now) that still works pretty well; I just updated it to Feywild gearing. My guild doesn't run many raids past LH though (mostly just LTS) so that's less of a concern to me. I'm currently building a Bard/Warlock/Alchemist that I could probably redo as a tank. There's a lot of design decisions and many work great, just different flavors.

Gimme a little more to go on XD

[Zbarb]

There's of course tons more depending on exactly what sort of goals you want to prioritize. Like I made a first-life raid tank (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/496530-First-Life-Iconic-LH-Raid-Tank?p=6139268&viewfull=1#post6139268) for Ravenloft a few years back (moderately out-of-date now) that still works pretty well; I just updated it to Feywild gearing. My guild doesn't run many raids past LH though (mostly just LTS) so that's less of a concern to me. I'm currently building a Bard/Warlock/Alchemist that I could probably redo as a tank. There's a lot of design decisions and many work great, just different flavors.

Gimme a little more to go on XD
You have already given me a lot to chew on. That first life raid tank looks interesting and i think there is a minor artifact from lost gatekeepers to make it even better.

But i have to make some choices i dont yet know how to make. Can you give me an indication which of the builds you mentioned would allow me to tank KT or LTS or, when i get sharn, PN. And by focussing on those what options am i losing and can those be mitigated with gear or ED changes?

[SpartanKiller13]

You have already given me a lot to chew on. That first life raid tank looks interesting and i think there is a minor artifact from lost gatekeepers to make it even better.

But i have to make some choices i dont yet know how to make. Can you give me an indication which of the builds you mentioned would allow me to tank KT or LTS or, when i get sharn, PN. And by focusing on those what options am i losing and can those be mitigated with gear or ED changes?

For that build I'm actually running it with a Feywild gearset now, FWIW. Minor Artifact and the Winter set for 20% extra HP is a solid upgrade :) but yeah, the gear's from when RL was like the only option.

So KT usually has two tanks. I usually end up tanking dragon, so I can't speak well to inside tanking. For solo-tanking dragon on LH (that is, no healer to babysit), mostly you just need >2500 HP or so (pretty easy to do on a tank in 2020), a bit of Electric Resist (F2P Ring of Flickering Steel (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Ring_of_Flickering_Steel) plus Energy Sheath (https://ddowiki.com/page/Draconic_Incarnation#Tier_One) T1 twist is more than enough), and sustain (remove curse pots or native casting as well). I don't think any one of those builds would struggle with it assuming you have a solid gearset. I haven't run it on LE either, so can't help there but you should be fine with a bit of help (LN I usually try to see how few SP I can do a raid with, my record's like 400 SP lol).

LTS tanking is basically just the final boss (everything else is pretty easy). On LE you're going to want decent PRR and decent HP (250+ and 2500 works with a bit of care), as well as some MRR and Electric Resist again (same as KT) to a lesser extent. Usually you grab him and hide behind the pillar until the puzzle is complete, and then you pop out to tank for the boss-kill. US's epic moment (Undying Vanguard (https://ddowiki.com/page/Unyielding_Sentinel#Tier_Six)) usually will cover most of that fight anyway if you're having a problem; just try to stack some Intimidates while pillaring (you might have to step out for it) so you don't lose aggro mid-fight. Stuff like Meld also works really well. Usually there's a bunch of AoE heals being thrown in that fight as it's pretty short and has lots of AoE damage anyway, so you mostly just need to not get blown up early.

PN is more of a puzzle raid than a stat-check, at least on LN/LH where it's usually run. Usually it's run with either two tanks or someone kiting Irk (who has a 20-stack -10 PRR/AC debuff) until you've killed the other bosses, so you don't generally have to tank it all at once. Mostly you need Feather Fall and 40ish Jump (any arcane caster gives +30, and you get 10 epic skill ranks so mostly you need to get past your Armor Check Penalty) so you can avoid Rudus' jump attack (jump when he jumps) and a fat stack of HP because the other two bosses have special attacks that hit pretty hard plus incoming heals. Try to get Deflect Arrows (VKF Core 2 (https://ddowiki.com/page/Vistani_Knife_Fighter_enhancements#Core_abilities) has it if you don't have another source) as it'll help a lot against Gish.

-------

Starting to see a theme? HP/PRR/MRR, some other mitigation (Dodge/Incorporeality/Concealment/AC/temp HP/whatever), and sustain. And enough Intimidate to grab and hold aggro :) My point is that I'd expect every one of those builds to be able to tank all the things you've listed (aside from KT on LE or inside which I don't know about) without too much difficulty. They just all play differently, with sometimes fairly significant changes. If you have dependable outside healing you have a lot more options as well, like a Fighter 20 or Barbarian 20 can be pretty good and contribute some decent DPS etc as well; I just wouldn't recommend that especially if you run KT (if you can solo tank dragon that's one more person who gets to go inside).

For ED stuff you'll be in Unyielding Sentinel like 98% of the time. It's by far the best tank ED (stacking +20% HP, disgustingly nice epic moment, and solid stances for HP or knockdown immunity) and lets you self-cast Renewal (https://ddowiki.com/page/Unyielding_Sentinel#Tier_Three) which is basically the most efficient heal in DDO. The only time you might swap ED's is if you're so much stronger than a raid that you don't need it, at which point probably EA or DC for more party heals etc. Twists there can be some swapping; Consecration (https://ddowiki.com/page/Divine_Crusader#Tier_Two) + Sacred Ground (https://ddowiki.com/page/Divine_Crusader#Tier_Three) is nice for AoE party heals, Energy Sheath is nice when a raid is heavy in one direction (Electric for KT/LTS/VoD/LLoB/MA, Fire for FotP/THTH), Draconic Presence (https://ddowiki.com/page/Draconic_Incarnation#Tier_One) is nice for +6 Intimidate, Martial Hymn (https://ddowiki.com/page/Fatesinger#Tier_Four) is PRR/MRR/AC/HP - and a few others. But like usually you'll find out fast which ones you need in general (C+SG is nice but a lotta twist points) and kinda just set the rest; Energy Sheath is pretty much always solid.

Gear-wise there's some modification, but the biggest issue is you currently only have access to RL gear and non-expansion stuff. Ever since Ravenloft came out, there's a sharp divide between gear older than that and gear newer. It also heavily pushed set bonuses, and that defines a lot of your gearing for all of those builds in similar fashion. Pale Master can run Dreadkeeper (https://ddowiki.com/page/Named_item_sets#The_Soul_Splitter_sets). The rest of that list will be using Knight of the Shadows (https://ddowiki.com/page/Named_item_sets#Ravenloft_Item_Sets) set pretty much regardless of anything else. After that you'll usually be aiming for Adherent's as well because the set bonus is pretty nice and stacks. Throwing in a Minor Artifact and some gear from newer content can help out a bit, but I'd expect half your gear to be pretty much the same between every one of those builds. Once you get access to Sharn it gets a bit more interesting, and Feywild even more so; but until then your gear choices will be pretty forced.

[REMOVE_MEATBAG]

I just got the new expansion and I was wondering of there were any cool builds going around involving Shifters or Feydark Illusionist

[SpartanKiller13]

I just got the new expansion and I was wondering of there were any cool builds going around involving Shifters or Feydark Illusionist

Sorry been on hols, wasn't checking the thread.

Shifters are so far mostly only relevant for melee builds with spare AP or racial AP - Magic Fang is just +7 melee damage which is pretty great all around if you can spare the race choice and AP. There's also a Visage of Terror build using the rage regen from shifter (the DC is based on your Con score, not Con modifier like other DC's) - here's an approximate link (https://youtu.be/zPwq86HtPn0?t=5012) to where it was when Strimtom was covering it.

Feydark Illusionist is currently good with everything. It's weaker on builds using EDF or EK's stance, but Greater Color Spray is really amazing so it's worth it. Otherwise any Cha melee build can take great advantage of Feydark, so Feydark Paladins are crazy strong and Sorcerer EK is better than ever with Feydark on top.

There are very few build going much deeper in Feydark though; in theory it's solid but the T5 just isn't great usually and the capstone - while good - is pretty expensive just for that. Most support builds will grab a better T5 from one of their classes and it's a hard sell to aim for Feydark capstone while using like Beacon of Hope's T5 vs grabbing more cheap stuff around.

The problem with Feydark as an Illusion tree is this: you could run a Deep Gnome Wizard focusing on PK's and run T5 Feydark; but 16 AP Deep Gnome and ~25 AP Archmage means you can either go Feydark and get +2 Int w/+4 Illusion DC's (and +3 spellpen, GCS, and free Displace) or go Pale Master and get +8 Int, +5 Spellpen, and stupid good self-healing. PM build has -2 Illusion, but +2 Spell Pen, +5 Enchantment, +6 Necromancy, and PM's Death Auras and Immunities. Pale Master is such a strong tree that you're only very slightly weaker at Illusion with huge bonuses in everything else.

[CrackedIce]

What is your opinion on Paladin 15/x dps builds?

Namely, Horc TA 4/ 1 EK?

[PurpleSerpent]

Great selection here!

Could I request something for a Tiefling character? Any free class.

[SpartanKiller13]

What is your opinion on Paladin 15/x dps builds?

Namely, Horc TA 4/ 1 EK?

Paladin 15 gets most of what a Paladin wants, so 15/x splits are usually pretty decent. Holy Sword, Zeal, and capped Righteous Command mean your buffs are nearly maxed, so all you're really missing out is KotC capstone and like SaD's core 5.

Now that GCS got fixed, I'd assume most Paladins are 41/31/7 or so. If you're multiclassing, that drops to like 38/24-26/7/x leaving 11 AP to spare; or dropping T4 SaD for like 38/13/7 with 22ish leftover. Or if you're not Feydark there's even more AP to burn :)

Horc is a very solid race if you have AP to throw at it. Do you have racial AP? You generally want 17+ AP into that tree, which is quite a handful. Did you pick it for the Helpless, or just the general melee awesomeness with Helpless as a bonus?

I'm not really sure what your split is going for? If it's just to max helpless damage, why TA over like Falconry; which gives Sprints, 5% HP, etc? TA is a quarterstaff tree, but that sticks you with Aureon and quarterstaffs vs like greatswords? TA actives are pretty good though, I'll agree.

EK 1 is for Magical Training and the cleave? You'll have Strikethrough and like 3 cleaves via KotC, so is this mostly for <12 content?

How's your AP split though? Even assuming 8 racial AP and ditching SaD entirely, you're at like:

38 KotC
25ish TA
17 HOrc
7 Feydark
1 EK

And you won't have all of that until epics.

-------

That's my immediate thoughts, at least. I'll have more once you explain a few things XD

[SpartanKiller13]

Great selection here!

Could I request something for a Tiefling character? Any free class.

Well, since your request is super open how about Tiefling fire Sorcerer? It's widely considered one of the strongest builds in DDO, although it's pretty squishy. Here's a build from Strimtom (Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/506304-The-Best-Way-To-Level-Fire-Sorcerer-Build)) including 80 AP option (Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/506304-The-Best-Way-To-Level-Fire-Sorcerer-Build?p=6221628&viewfull=1#post6221628)) and Carpone's take on optimal feat order for it (Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/506304-The-Best-Way-To-Level-Fire-Sorcerer-Build?p=6229110&viewfull=1#post6229110)).

Otherwise THF Paladin is really strong, and Tiefling's Cha bonus works fine for that. You'll be a LOT tougher, and still have reasonable DPS but not quite the point of "push one button to wipe out a pile of mobs) lol. Here's a build from Tobril (Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/513519-U45-THF-Paladin-for-Racial-Lives)) that looks great.

Or like run PM Wizard and have stupid good self-heals, but with literally no interaction to Tiefling. Another build from Strimtom (Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/508244-Pale-Master-Has-Never-Been-Better-Versatile-and-Fun)). Just swap the race (obvs) and call it a day.

[PurpleSerpent]

Well, since your request is super open how about Tiefling fire Sorcerer? It's widely considered one of the strongest builds in DDO, although it's pretty squishy. Here's a build from Strimtom (Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/506304-The-Best-Way-To-Level-Fire-Sorcerer-Build)) including 80 AP option (Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/506304-The-Best-Way-To-Level-Fire-Sorcerer-Build?p=6221628&viewfull=1#post6221628)) and Carpone's take on optimal feat order for it (Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/506304-The-Best-Way-To-Level-Fire-Sorcerer-Build?p=6229110&viewfull=1#post6229110)).

Otherwise THF Paladin is really strong, and Tiefling's Cha bonus works fine for that. You'll be a LOT tougher, and still have reasonable DPS but not quite the point of "push one button to wipe out a pile of mobs) lol. Here's a build from Tobril (Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/513519-U45-THF-Paladin-for-Racial-Lives)) that looks great.

Or like run PM Wizard and have stupid good self-heals, but with literally no interaction to Tiefling. Another build from Strimtom (Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/508244-Pale-Master-Has-Never-Been-Better-Versatile-and-Fun)). Just swap the race (obvs) and call it a day.

Great, thanks. I find the sorceror build a bit odd (makes a few strange choices with feat order) but I love PM so I'll look into that oone.

EDIT: Actually I might take the Sorceror with Carpone's feat order. I already have a Pale Master as my main character, don't want to repeat myself too much. Thanks eirher way!

[SpartanKiller13]

Great, thanks. I find the sorcerer build a bit odd (makes a few strange choices with feat order) but I love PM so I'll look into that one.

EDIT: Actually I might take the Sorcerer with Carpone's feat order. I already have a Pale Master as my main character, don't want to repeat myself too much. Thanks either way!

Sure, so look at some of the others proposed :) I just like Strimtom builds because he's detailed and usually includes a video etc, which is really helpful for new players.

If you want something else just ask, but your only requests were F2P and Tiefling which is pretty open-ended :)

[CrackedIce]

Paladin 15 gets most of what a Paladin wants, so 15/x splits are usually pretty decent. Holy Sword, Zeal, and capped Righteous Command mean your buffs are nearly maxed, so all you're really missing out is KotC capstone and like SaD's core 5.

Now that GCS got fixed, I'd assume most Paladins are 41/31/7 or so. If you're multiclassing, that drops to like 38/24-26/7/x leaving 11 AP to spare; or dropping T4 SaD for like 38/13/7 with 22ish leftover. Or if you're not Feydark there's even more AP to burn :)

Horc is a very solid race if you have AP to throw at it. Do you have racial AP? You generally want 17+ AP into that tree, which is quite a handful. Did you pick it for the Helpless, or just the general melee awesomeness with Helpless as a bonus?

I'm not really sure what your split is going for? If it's just to max helpless damage, why TA over like Falconry; which gives Sprints, 5% HP, etc? TA is a quarterstaff tree, but that sticks you with Aureon and quarterstaffs vs like greatswords? TA actives are pretty good though, I'll agree.

EK 1 is for Magical Training and the cleave? You'll have Strikethrough and like 3 cleaves via KotC, so is this mostly for <12 content?

How's your AP split though? Even assuming 8 racial AP and ditching SaD entirely, you're at like:

38 KotC
25ish TA
17 HOrc
7 Feydark
1 EK

And you won't have all of that until epics.

-------

That's my immediate thoughts, at least. I'll have more once you explain a few things XD



Ya, you kinda hit the nail on the head. I was looking at Horc due to awesome thf abilities with "capstone" of helpnesses stacking with TA. I wanted a good qstaff build and figured that despite having strike through, utilizing the AOEnattacks from all three classes should be purty fun.

The main idea though, was the alacrity bonus as well as doublestrike from quick strike and zeal together with the stacking base damage of Horc, TA and favored weapon makes for some excellent damage. Then add in the helplesses and things really come together.

[SpartanKiller13]

Ya, you kinda hit the nail on the head. I was looking at Horc due to awesome thf abilities with "capstone" of helpless stacking with TA. I wanted a good qstaff build and figured that despite having strike through, utilizing the AOE attacks from all three classes should be purty fun.

The main idea though, was the alacrity bonus as well as doublestrike from quick strike and zeal together with the stacking base damage of Horc, TA and favored weapon makes for some excellent damage. Then add in the helpless and things really come together.

How do you plan on making enemies helpless? If you can get that consistently I'd expect the build to be viable, and fairly reasonable for a qstaff build; but maxing helpless isn't great until 29 if you're banking on Dire Charge. GCS is no longer no-fail, so it's really hard to get epic DC's as a melee (although Heroics and Dailies you should be fine, so maybe just Daily > 29 > Dire Charge?). Going that route is even more AP though lol, and your AP are going to be pretty tight already. Should have some flexibility to swap your setup for different priorities though :)

Named Qstaffs also aren't amazing, but Felling the Oak is really nice and only gets better in FotW.

You're going to be pretty MAD though, lol. Hope you have at least some tomes to hit your feats (Str 17, Dex 13, Con/Cha max) and ofc racial AP for HOrc goodies. Weirdly enough Raging Crush might not be worth it, as it's a single crit at x3 per 30s? If you can stack it with other actives it'd be great, if not meh.

I think leveling might be interesting. You want Rogue early for the Qstaff stuff, but that delays Holy Sword & Zeal which is half the point of the build. Comes together @20, but that's a bit of a distance from where you start :) If you plan on grabbing a few EPL's that's perfect, but if you want a 1-20 build that's generally not so good (most people don't even take level 19 lol).

[CrackedIce]

How do you plan on making enemies helpless? If you can get that consistently I'd expect the build to be viable, and fairly reasonable for a qstaff build; but maxing helpless isn't great until 29 if you're banking on Dire Charge. GCS is no longer no-fail, so it's really hard to get epic DC's as a melee (although Heroics and Dailies you should be fine, so maybe just Daily > 29 > Dire Charge?). Going that route is even more AP though lol, and your AP are going to be pretty tight already. Should have some flexibility to swap your setup for different priorities though :)

Named Qstaffs also aren't amazing, but Felling the Oak is really nice and only gets better in FotW.

You're going to be pretty MAD though, lol. Hope you have at least some tomes to hit your feats (Str 17, Dex 13, Con/Cha max) and ofc racial AP for HOrc goodies. Weirdly enough Raging Crush might not be worth it, as it's a single crit at x3 per 30s? If you can stack it with other actives it'd be great, if not meh.

I think leveling might be interesting. You want Rogue early for the Qstaff stuff, but that delays Holy Sword & Zeal which is half the point of the build. Comes together @20, but that's a bit of a distance from where you start :) If you plan on grabbing a few EPL's that's perfect, but if you want a 1-20 build that's generally not so good (most people don't even take level 19 lol).

This was quite helpful. Ya problem I noticed is that you are better off leveling as non qstaff and end up missing all the nice staves in heroics. I figured this wouldn't be a solo build and would have to rely on party for helplesses damage.

Assuming bows get fixed this year, what do you think about tier 5 deepwood, tier 3 AA, tier 4 warpriest? I can't decide whether 12 Ranger or 14 cleric is better with this split. Or whether to go dex or zen archery. Really wants monk, though.

(I really like slayer arrows, but seems that enhancement split isn't as solid with deepwood core 3 and tier 4 warpriest)

[SpartanKiller13]

This was quite helpful. Ya problem I noticed is that you are better off leveling as non qstaff and end up missing all the nice staves in heroics. I figured this wouldn't be a solo build and would have to rely on party for helplesses damage.

Assuming bows get fixed this year, what do you think about tier 5 deepwood, tier 3 AA, tier 4 warpriest? I can't decide whether 12 Ranger or 14 cleric is better with this split. Or whether to go dex or zen archery. Really wants monk, though.

(I really like slayer arrows, but seems that enhancement split isn't as solid with deepwood core 3 and tier 4 warpriest)

Yeah, and if you're going to wait to use qstaffs why bother with a dip? :( It's probably a fine flavor build that's not actually that much weaker than the meta stuff, but it definitely isn't 100% optimal lol. Should be pretty good at like Heroic Sharn if you have helpless from your party; you often don't have nearly enough fort bypass so the weaker crit profile of staffs isn't nearly as relevant. Still, yeah...

-----

For the bow rework, they're adding Horizon Walker at that time right? Given the strength of newer trees I'd expect the meta to be ~T5 HW, T4 AA, and T3 Falconry lol. Wis-max Paralyzing + HW's inevitably good damage = win. Or FvS for free Wis-to-everything, wings, and elven AA for Paralyzing.

With regards to your proposal, Warpriest is for 10% Doubleshot? What Domain are you after? War Domain for Holy Sword vs just going Ranger 12 and getting DWS Core 4 for +threat range? If you're getting +1 either way, getting free Multishot/IPS via Ranger seems better, as it frees up your Dex from required 19. It feels like there's almost something via like FvS for Wis-max, but it's not quite there so I think you're stuck with Falconry?

AA imbue is a pretty fat stack of damage early on, so if you're trading that for base damage etc you need to be getting a bunch (also ideally Wis-max so you have the option of Paralyzing). I thought meta for AA builds was like T5 DWS with AA capstone? I'm not really a ranged DPS player though, sorry.

I'd really expect Horizon Walker to be better than the other options though, so it seems a bit pointless to speculate past like trying to get Wis-to-everything and Paralyzing Arrows or like Int/Wis/Cha-to-Everything plus Greater Color Spray.

[CrackedIce]

Yeah, and if you're going to wait to use qstaffs why bother with a dip? :( It's probably a fine flavor build that's not actually that much weaker than the meta stuff, but it definitely isn't 100% optimal lol. Should be pretty good at like Heroic Sharn if you have helpless from your party; you often don't have nearly enough fort bypass so the weaker crit profile of staffs isn't nearly as relevant. Still, yeah...

-----

For the bow rework, they're adding Horizon Walker at that time right? Given the strength of newer trees I'd expect the meta to be ~T5 HW, T4 AA, and T3 Falconry lol. Wis-max Paralyzing + HW's inevitably good damage = win. Or FvS for free Wis-to-everything, wings, and elven AA for Paralyzing.

With regards to your proposal, Warpriest is for 10% Doubleshot? What Domain are you after? War Domain for Holy Sword vs just going Ranger 12 and getting DWS Core 4 for +threat range? If you're getting +1 either way, getting free Multishot/IPS via Ranger seems better, as it frees up your Dex from required 19. It feels like there's almost something via like FvS for Wis-max, but it's not quite there so I think you're stuck with Falconry?

AA imbue is a pretty fat stack of damage early on, so if you're trading that for base damage etc you need to be getting a bunch (also ideally Wis-max so you have the option of Paralyzing). I thought meta for AA builds was like T5 DWS with AA capstone? I'm not really a ranged DPS player though, sorry.

I'd really expect Horizon Walker to be better than the other options though, so it seems a bit pointless to speculate past like trying to get Wis-to-everything and Paralyzing Arrows or like Int/Wis/Cha-to-Everything plus Greater Color Spray.


Yup. I assume HW will be the better tree, but I specifically do not want to run the meta builds.

Since AA capstone and tier 5 deepwood is best that now currently can get these days for a bow, I figured keeping with deepwood tier 5 and taking warpriest won't be so bad of a hit since there is some DS offset there. I was hoping that ameliorating strike is actually worth the investment, but see now that it doesn't go off per hit as it used to. Nothing else in that tree is interesting to me for the AP investment.

Cleric over Ranger for the party support spells.

If go Ranger 12, can go luck domain for displacement without the AP cost that a dragon marked elf brings. Or stay with terror arrows, wisdom based and go trickery domain for enchantment dc increase to offset not going tier 4 AA.

[SpartanKiller13]

Yup. I assume HW will be the better tree, but I specifically do not want to run the meta builds.

Since AA capstone and tier 5 deepwood is best that now currently can get these days for a bow, I figured keeping with deepwood tier 5 and taking warpriest won't be so bad of a hit since there is some DS offset there. I was hoping that ameliorating strike is actually worth the investment, but see now that it doesn't go off per hit as it used to. Nothing else in that tree is interesting to me for the AP investment.

Cleric over Ranger for the party support spells.

If go Ranger 12, can go luck domain for displacement without the AP cost that a dragon marked elf brings. Or stay with terror arrows, wisdom based and go trickery domain for enchantment dc increase to offset not going tier 4 AA.

I'd be fairly surprised if bows become meta even so lol. But fair :)

I don't think Ameliorating Strike was ever on-hit? There was a period on Lama when it was "when your smite crits" but that was changed when it went live in 2013 (link (https://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Warpriest_enhancements&oldid=196672)). It's still nice, and better now that Smite has a 12s CD, but it would possibly be the strongest enhancement in DDO if it was on-hit lol. If you're looking for party support it's also pretty handy as an AoE heal that doesn't slow your DPS down.

10% Doubleshot is nice from Warpriest T4, and Magical Backlash from T3 is surprisingly helpful when fighting casters (whenever there's >1 and they get to cast, it's knocking someone down with no effort on your part). Still, yeah, it's a harder sell spending >20 AP there vs like grabbing more AA stuff (more dice, more DC's, Paralyzing, etc).

If you're looking for party support I'd recommend against terror arrows. In certain niches they're good (soloing, all-ranged DPS party, probably something else too) but most of the time you're just chasing mobs away from your melees and out of range of your spellcasters, which is pretty frustrating for everyone involved. A lot of people will ask you to not use them, myself included. There are few things more annoying than having to chase and single-target literally every mob lol, especially now in the golden age of AoE. By all means roll up a test toon (vet 7 works great) and try it, but I think you'll agree.

If you're not just in for Terror Arrows, AA T4 gets a lot more desirable (+2 damage dice w/scaling, +2 DC's, Paralyzing option, etc). And then you're nearly back where we started, 39 DWS/24 AA = 17 leftover AP lol.

[C-Dog]

Paralyzing is vastly better than Terror (except for soloing, and even then it's ymmv). Confirmed.

[SpartanKiller13]

Paralyzing is vastly better than Terror (except for soloing, and even then it's ymmv). Confirmed.

Back in the day you could stack imbues, so Terror was alright as a backup option for enemies that saved against your Paralysis; but even then it wasn't great.

Since that got fixed (and AA got a lot of buffs) I haven't run into any time I'd want Terror to be used.

I'm all for getting people to do their own testing, but I don't want the requester to build around a mechanic that's generally considered undesirable if they're looking for party play :)

[aurus33]

R). You totally can just run a Sacred Defender tank, but once you've spent 41ish AP into that tree you have another 30ish to do very little with (12 AP into Falconry for 5% HP, 6 AP into VKF for Deflect Arrows and then what?). Ideally you'll want to multiclass a bit so you have multiple trees to spend AP into.


17/3 FvS/Paladin gets you SaD stance, 20% HP, FvS wings, and burst heals as well as a lot of Beacon of Hope which is pretty nice. Tons of SP, you're a healbot that can tank as well.


Gimme a little more to go on XD


Do you have a link where I can find the details of this build? seems interesting.

Thanks! :)

[Discpsycho]

Do you have a link where I can find the details of this build? seems interesting.

Thanks! :)

Here ya go (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/518435-R10-Healer-17-FVS-3-Pally). Not a lot of FvS variety these days so this build was pretty close to the top of that class subforum

[SpartanKiller13]

Do you have a link where I can find the details of this build? seems interesting.

Thanks! :)

Here's a pretty detailed one from Unsinful/Multipro: Link (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cohe5Hdjp9y-9mHxa39G3J0ZjUNcdthlw1V70tGidVo/edit)
Here's one from Zappy that I like a little more: Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/510350-Selfhealing-raid-tank-(low-difficulties)?p=6270725#post6270725)
Here's a short one from Mikarddo, I'd recommend some more Intimidate stuff but YMMV: Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/511127-Pally-FvS-tank-healer-looking-for-build-advice?)

There's not a ton of variety, mostly just flavoring :)


Here ya go (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/518435-R10-Healer-17-FVS-3-Pally). Not a lot of FvS variety these days so this build was pretty close to the top of that class subforum

That one's built for being a survivable healer more than an off-tank. Wis-max is IMO significantly worse for tanking (Cha build for Intimidate boost is really helpful, Con for HP is certainly better for level-ups etc) and the feats are a little different. It's pretty similar though, so I wouldn't expect you to struggle :)

[Annex]

Is there a modern, first life, solo, Human Paladin build around here, somewhere? Seven or eight months back, I recall a thread in which the writer created such a character. I want to practice playing at higher difficulties.

Thank you.

[infael]

I just TR'd to tief scoundrel. I'm not familiar with bards. What should I get for the bard? I'm open to ideas.

Just want a bard that can hold its own.

[SpartanKiller13]

Is there a modern, first life, solo, Human Paladin build around here, somewhere? Seven or eight months back, I recall a thread in which the writer created such a character. I want to practice playing at higher difficulties.

Thank you.


Do you have access to Feydark Illusionist?
When you say higher difficulties, are you looking to solo like R6 or what's the goal?
Is this for 1-20, 1-30, sitting at 30, or? Vet I/II?
What tomes do you have? Str/Dex are the critical ones to know about.
Do you have 32-point builds available?

When soloing, one of the most important parts is self-healing. Paladin's amazing at this through Elite, but Reaper's self-healing debuff means you have to work for it as you scale up skulls.

Feydark allows you to Cha-max as a Paladin which not only pushes your saves through the roof but also scales your Lay on Hands a ton which is your source of burst self-healing. Greater Color Spray is also incredibly helpful for Heroics, although it's harder to get viable DC's in epics without making a lot of painful tradeoffs.

The problem with going Feydark that you really badly want stat tomes; THF requires Str 17, which is harder to hit without tomes while maxing Cha (and not dumping Con lol). Also you need Magical Training to get into the tree (but you'll probably want that for self-healing etc anyway).

End of the day ideal is probably something like 41/31/7 KotC/SaD/FI. There really isn't a lot of AP flexibility available when trying to optimize a pure Pally.

-------

You could run a S&B Paladin Vanguard build, but they're not so modern and THF is incredibly strong right now so it's very popular.

-------

Let me know some details and your thoughts and we'll go from there :)

[SpartanKiller13]

I just TR'd to tief scoundrel. I'm not familiar with bards. What should I get for the bard? I'm open to ideas.

Just want a bard that can hold its own.


Do you play in a party? Solo?
Are you looking for a 15-30 quick IPL, or do you want to sit at cap, or do a stack of EPL's?
Do you typically run dailies/slayers 20-28 or like R1 stuff?
Do you have a lot of PL's/RAP/RP? (Vaguely)
Do you have access to Feydark Illusionist? Inquisitive?
What difficulty to you run/aim for, solo and in party?

Honestly now that Feydark is out there's a lot more options (assuming you have access to it).

Bard can play really well as a support, although IMO it's best multiclassed. I'm currently enjoying an alt that I set up as 15/4/1 Bard/Warlock/Alchemist (although I'd maybe redo as 12/5/3) spreading temp HP and heals across a raid group. Zero DPS/CC though, it's party-only.

You could run as a CC/Support machine also, like T5 Spellsinger + C4 Warchanter + Feydark = great songs, great buffs, tons of CC. Really dependent on having a party though lol.

Feydark + Inquisitive would set you up as a Cha-max build, and you could follow that with Spellsinger's Sustaining Song and be in a pretty solid spot. CC via GCS and like Sonic Blast, and ranged DPS for soloing plus shiny Bard songs for party setup. Probably the easiest option for soloing, but it's not glamorous and I'm not a fan of ranged DPS.

You could also do a Freezing Ice build with Warchanter, using some Swashbuckled weapon and Feydark. Between all the ice effects and backup GCS you'll have a lot of CC everywhere, and your melee is enough DPS to chip stuff down :) This one seems more fun, but YMMV.

------

As far as general Bard tips:
Max Perform - a lot of your stuff is gated behind it, and some DC's are based on it.
You have two types of song effects: active song buffs (all rolled into one button, your Bardic Inspiration) that you buff people one-at-a-time with, and your Ballad buffs (a passive aura effect).
Max Devotion - Spellsinger T4 Sustaining Song is insane in party scenarios, but is based on your current spellpower.

------

Gimme some details, what are ya interested in (or other angles to take) and what do ya have?

[Annex]

Do you have access to Feydark Illusionist?
When you say higher difficulties, are you looking to solo like R6 or what's the goal?
Is this for 1-20, 1-30, sitting at 30, or? Vet I/II?
What tomes do you have? Str/Dex are the critical ones to know about.
Do you have 32-point builds available?

When soloing, one of the most important parts is self-healing. Paladin's amazing at this through Elite, but Reaper's self-healing debuff means you have to work for it as you scale up skulls.

Feydark allows you to Cha-max as a Paladin which not only pushes your saves through the roof but also scales your Lay on Hands a ton which is your source of burst self-healing. Greater Color Spray is also incredibly helpful for Heroics, although it's harder to get viable DC's in epics without making a lot of painful tradeoffs.

The problem with going Feydark that you really badly want stat tomes; THF requires Str 17, which is harder to hit without tomes while maxing Cha (and not dumping Con lol). Also you need Magical Training to get into the tree (but you'll probably want that for self-healing etc anyway).

End of the day ideal is probably something like 41/31/7 KotC/SaD/FI. There really isn't a lot of AP flexibility available when trying to optimize a pure Pally.

-------

You could run a S&B Paladin Vanguard build, but they're not so modern and THF is incredibly strong right now so it's very popular.

-------

Let me know some details and your thoughts and we'll go from there :)

Thank you, SpartanKiller13.

At low levels, depending on the character, I play Normal or Hard difficulty. At mid levels, I always drop to Normal with very rare forays into Hard. At Epic levels, I play Normal with occasional forays into Hard. At all higher difficulties I sustain too much damage, too quickly, from enemy monsters using Wizard spells.

All my previous attempts to play Clerics (8 tries), Fighters (8 tries), Mages (2 tries), and Paladins (1 try) have failed. About 8 months ago I created my first Rogue Mechanic. She is very easy to play and reached Level 8 running almost everything on Hard with another character in tow. Unfortunately, her equipment became outdated, I had to drop to Normal, and now she remains stuck until I can make her some equipment.

My existing Paladin was created in 2014. It will require a full character reset to fix her. She does not have Epic Destinies and thus remains stuck at Level 22.

I am looking to create a brand new character for the purpose of testing higher difficulties. I have seen many claims that brand new Paladins can easily solo Reaper 1 Difficulty so I thought to try that. She will not have any Tomes. She will need to run each quest Normal>Hard>Elite to unlock Reaper Mode. She will have 32 points for Ability Scores. She will have equipment from Cannith Crafting and Cannith Challenges. She will have access to Menace of the Underdark and Shadowfell Conspiracy. She will run entirely solo with a hire.

My past experience with Fighters revealed that Monster Champions with Wizard spells destroy them. Perhaps a modern Paladin will fare better. That is the hope.

[MrGharus]

I returned to the game recently after 5 or so years away. I and several friends are all making 1st life characters to run heroic content. I'd like to play with the Vistani Knife Fighting tree, and Pale Master (because I never did a Pale Master back in the day). I'm going to be human and need to reserve 12 points to use in the Human tree to get Greater Dragonmark of Finding (for our playthrough we plan to go "Old-School" and not to use auction hall, broker, or DDO Store items (so no tomes). Other than that I want to do the trapping for the group, so I was thinking 18/2 Pale Wiz-Rogue. I have 32 point builds available to me.

Is this viable for Heroic Elite to Lvl 20? Is there a build out there that will work for me, or could you put one together? Thank you in advance.

[SpartanKiller13]

Thank you, SpartanKiller13.

At low levels, depending on the character, I play Normal or Hard difficulty. At mid levels, I always drop to Normal with very rare forays into Hard. At Epic levels, I play Normal with occasional forays into Hard. At all higher difficulties I sustain too much damage, too quickly, from enemy monsters using Wizard spells.

All my previous attempts to play Clerics (8 tries), Fighters (8 tries), Mages (2 tries), and Paladins (1 try) have failed. About 8 months ago I created my first Rogue Mechanic. She is very easy to play and reached Level 8 running almost everything on Hard with another character in tow. Unfortunately, her equipment became outdated, I had to drop to Normal, and now she remains stuck until I can make her some equipment.

My existing Paladin was created in 2014. It will require a full character reset to fix her. She does not have Epic Destinies and thus remains stuck at Level 22.

I am looking to create a brand new character for the purpose of testing higher difficulties. I have seen many claims that brand new Paladins can easily solo Reaper 1 Difficulty so I thought to try that. She will not have any Tomes. She will need to run each quest Normal>Hard>Elite to unlock Reaper Mode. She will have 32 points for Ability Scores. She will have equipment from Cannith Crafting and Cannith Challenges. She will have access to Menace of the Underdark and Shadowfell Conspiracy. She will run entirely solo with a hire.

My past experience with Fighters revealed that Monster Champions with Wizard spells destroy them. Perhaps a modern Paladin will fare better. That is the hope.

While you can solo R1 with a first-life Paladin, be aware that there's a bit of playstyle, knowledge of quests/Reaper etc, so I'd probably start more at Elite and then move up as you get comfortable?

Your main concern seems to be enemy spellcasters. One thing Paladins can be really good at are saves, thanks to Divine Grace (adding your Cha bonus to saves).

Otherwise you generally want to kill them first, so you're looking for mobility abilities; KotC has Lead the Charge which helps, but that's most of what you get until epics (no tomes = no Spring Attack). You can also use CC on them, but you're fairly limited until 29 w/Dire Charge (given no Feydark). Another critical tip vs spellcasters is to maintain Shield or Nightshield (via wands or clickies) to prevent champions from stacking DoTs on you with Magic Missile.

I'd still recommend THF Paladin; you do lose some defenses compared to a S&B Paladin, but you gain a ton of offense which IMO makes up for it (dead enemies deal no DPS).

Something like:


16 Str (your hitting stat, put first level-up point here for ITHF)
8 Dex (lol)
16 Con (HP)
8 Int (only here for skills)
8 Wis (you need a total of 14 by level 14 to cast all your spells, but it includes all buffs - even Owl's Wisdom)
16 Cha (saves, DC+damage boost, Lay on Hands, Turn Undeads for later)

Last 2 points into Wis if you don't have an airship, or Int if you do.
You can put level-ups into Str for more damage, or Cha for more survivability (if you get access to or plan on getting Feydark at some point, max Cha).

Feats:
1) Two-Handed Fighting (makes THF a lot stronger)
1H) Power Attack (bonus damage; Precision is better but requires Dex 13)
1P) Sovereign Host (level 6 active heal is really strong)
3) Magical Training (allows you to heal infinitely out-of-combat)
6) Improved THF (boosts THF more)
9) Improved Critical: Slashing (melee DPS)
12) Greater THF (more THF fun!)
15) Force of Personality (shiny boost to Will saves)
18) Extra Turning (more turns = more win)
21) Overwhelming Critical (DPS)
24) Empower Healing Spell (or Quicken, or Toughness; mostly it's for Cocoon)
26D) Perfect THF (most THF fun!)
27) Blinding Speed (QoL and DPS)
28D) Perfect TWF (5% Doublestrike is DPS)
29D) Dire Charge (really great CC, really high DC)
30) Epic Damage Reduction (tanky = good)

Not grabbing Cleave b/c you get it via KotC, so saving feats = stronger. You could grab GCleave early which is nice, but then you have to trade two feats at Fred so that's expensive.

Epic Destiny path: start Unyielding Sentinel to level 4, then Divine Crusader 2 (for Confront Any Foe) then swap to Grandmaster of Flowers to 3, then Legendary Dreadnaught to 4, then cap out Shiradi before you take 26; then return to Martial sphere to cap GMoF/LD/Shadowdancer out. This gives access to PTHF and PTWF, which are both really great feats, and Dire Charge at 29. I think that plan wastes 30k XP, but CAF is really really strong so I prefer that over skipping DC.

------

Enhancements:
Start 1 AP into KotC, then 4 AP into Sacred Defender for more Lay on Hands - this is your earlygame survival tool.
Back to KotC for Improved Second Strikes, Holy Combatant, and then Exalted Attack > Core 2.
Over to Sacred Defender, grab Durable Defense III while getting C2 ASAP (hotbar & toggle stance).

After that, keep going around 2/3 into KotC and the rest into Sacred Defender. Key points: get +20% HP from SaD, get KotC T3 Holy Combatant (making Greatswords favored is great), one point in Lead the Charge for rushing Wizards. Get +6 Strength from SaD stance too whenever you can (and +3 saves on the way).

Level 12:
Respec to put most of your points (~39) into KotC. Grab the whole T5, highlights from before, Divine Might, +2 stats, Improved Turning, all the cores you can. Then back into Sacred Defender, and just spend points here the rest of the way.

SaD highlights: Cores, +15 PRR/MRR stance, +20% HP stance, +6 Str stance (or Con), +3 Lay on Hands, +10% Movespeed, +2 Cha, +3 saves.

At level 20:
41 AP KotC (as above + capstone)
31 AP SaD (Core 5, as above)

8 leftover AP. Generally this goes to Human, getting Healamp, +1 stat, and Fighting Style:Great Weapon Aptitude.

I'm not using a planner so I might have missed some stuff, but that should be most of the highlights at least so it's a place to start :)

------

Maxing Charisma gives you better survivability, but maxing Strength gives more damage (even with Divine Might). That's something you'll get to pick along the way :)

------

Spell highlights:

1) Divine Favor (stacking damage)
1) Protection from Evil (some immunities)
1) Lesser Restoration
1) Cure Light Wounds (your earlygame heal)
2) Angelskin (more PRR/MRR)
2) Righteous Command (free DPS)
3) Remove Curse
3) Cure Moderate Wounds (your general heal)
3) Prayer (replaces Divine Favor)
4) Holy Sword (DPS)
4) Zeal (more DPS)
4) Deathward (no instakills)
4) Restoration or Cure Serious

------

ED-wise, Fatesinger is probably the highest DPS for you, with Shadowdancer offering the best utility (Meld, Grim Precision, Pierce the Gloom, Epic moment) and Divine Crusader the best party value.

You'll want to be filling these out anyway, as that gets you more twist points which is really great.

Twists I'd recommend:

Rejuvenation Cocoon (Shiradi T1, extremely efficient healing)
Confront Any Foe (Divine Crusader T2, amazing active cleave attack - it hits 3x in an AoE, each of which can doublestrike)
Meld into Darkness (Shadowdancer T3, gives 95% Dodge which is near-invulnerability to melee/ranged for 15s/120s)

There's a lot of other good ones, but you won't have a lot of twist points yet and this keeps it simpler :)

------

Thoughts?

[SpartanKiller13]

I returned to the game recently after 5 or so years away. I and several friends are all making 1st life characters to run heroic content. I'd like to play with the Vistani Knife Fighting tree, and Pale Master (because I never did a Pale Master back in the day). I'm going to be human and need to reserve 12 points to use in the Human tree to get Greater Dragonmark of Finding (for our playthrough we plan to go "Old-School" and not to use auction hall, broker, or DDO Store items (so no tomes). Other than that I want to do the trapping for the group, so I was thinking 18/2 Pale Wiz-Rogue. I have 32 point builds available to me.

Is this viable for Heroic Elite to Lvl 20? Is there a build out there that will work for me, or could you put one together? Thank you in advance.

Do you have access to Harper Agent tree? If not, it'll be a lot weaker. If you do, you should be great :)

PM is hilariously strong right now, so you'll be nigh-immortal on Elite lol.

Max Int for like everything. Dex 13 for Precision, then leftovers into Con. Consider Str 10 for carrying capacity given your restrictions?

Skills, max Balance, Search, Disable Device, and then spend your billion remaining skill points wherever (Jump, Open Lock, Heal, Use Magic Device, etc).

Start Rogue 1, then take the 2nd level somewhere later (like 8 or 10) to even out skill points and get Evasion.

1) Single Weapon Fighting
2W) Extend Spell
3) Precision
6) Insightful Reflexes
6W) Quicken Spell
9) Toughness?
12) Improved SWF
12W) Spell Focus: Enchantment
15) Toughness?
17W) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
18) Improved Critical: Piercing

Since it's 1-20 there's some odd choices lol. Also Spell Focus is pretty flexible, you could go Heighten and SF: Conjuration for Web (or Illusion for Color Spray, but that'll depend on your party comp etc. Toughness feats can be swapped for spellcasting stuff, but HP are always appreciated :)

Early few levels you'll be really weak. Probably just go into VKF and stay fleshy for party heals, and go into PM at level 6 or so. You'll sit on 6 AP in PM for a while, so you can afford VKF+Harper stuff lol. 12 points into Harper is pretty expensive, but probably around level 7-8 or so. VKF eats most of your AP for a while. Core 3 in PM gets another 10% incorp, but you're really AP starved earlygame. A lot of small decisions, but most depend on your party comp so it's hard for me to say. You'll do very low melee damage until you have VKF+Harper a bit, so maybe spellcast early? I haven't run a VKF toon so I'm not sure the details, sorry.

Death Auras heal based on your spellpower/crit at time of cast, so you can swap on a caster stick to throw Auras and then swap back to your daggers. Ravenloft's Silverthread Belt is also fantastic if that's available.

[Annex]

While you can solo R1 with a first-life Paladin, be aware that there's a bit of playstyle, knowledge of quests/Reaper etc, so I'd probably start more at Elite and then move up as you get comfortable?

Thank you again for the very detailed response, SpartanKiller13. To be clear, I have played most quests in this game to the point of exhaustion, just not in Reaper Mode or Elite at level. Since Normal and Hard reward such poor experience, I must replay quests over and over and over to achieve the same results as someone running in Reaper Mode. I have played most quests far more than a Reaper Mode player, not far less, because of the experience reward structure of DDO. The whole point of this exercise is to break into Reaper Difficulty since the vast majority of character power rewards reside there. I need to get over the hurdle because any character that cannot is doomed to suck forever. That is the reality of DDO today.


Your main concern seems to be enemy spellcasters. One thing Paladins can be really good at are saves, thanks to Divine Grace (adding your Cha bonus to saves).

Otherwise you generally want to kill them first, so you're looking for mobility abilities; KotC has Lead the Charge which helps, but that's most of what you get until epics (no tomes = no Spring Attack). You can also use CC on them, but you're fairly limited until 29 w/Dire Charge (given no Feydark). Another critical tip vs spellcasters is to maintain Shield or Nightshield (via wands or clickies) to prevent champions from stacking DoTs on you with Magic Missile.

Even on Hard difficulty, failure to maintain protection against Magic Missiles often means instant death. In my experience, enemy spell casters become the most difficult around level 13 or so when they can instant kill with 1,000 point disintegrates and fire off damage spells in very rapid succession with no time to heal between attacks. Even my Fighter with 750 Hit Points and decent Magic Resistance Rating could not survive that. Unfortunately, Spell Absorption items get used up so quickly as to become useless in seconds.

The lack of any skill to lock up spell casters greatly concerns me. Again in my experience, running straight at the most powerful spell caster often means taking multiple high damage spells with no time to heal between them and if more enemies join it, the situation becomes untenable in a second. My Rogue Mechanic wipes the floor with those same enemies because she can tear them apart at range while dodging spells. Hopefully, she will continue to do that form level 13 to 20 when enemy spell casters are the most powerful.

In all cases, I find that things vastly improve form level 20 on because of much better equipment and Unyielding Sentinel. I would like to get to a point where Reaper Tree upgrades replace Unyielding Sentinel, thus allowing my Epic characters to switch to trees that actually increase damage.


I'd still recommend THF Paladin; you do lose some defenses compared to a S&B Paladin, but you gain a ton of offense which IMO makes up for it (dead enemies deal no DPS).

As per my initial request for advice, I am building a Two Weapon Fighting Paladin. My Paladin who uses a Sword and Shield cannot inflict any damage. She is terrible against anything on level.


Something like:


16 Str (your hitting stat, put first level-up point here for ITHF)
8 Dex (lol)
16 Con (HP)
8 Int (only here for skills)
8 Wis (you need a total of 14 by level 14 to cast all your spells, but it includes all buffs - even Owl's Wisdom)
16 Cha (saves, DC+damage boost, Lay on Hands, Turn Undeads for later)

Last 2 points into Wis if you don't have an airship, or Int if you do.
You can put level-ups into Str for more damage, or Cha for more survivability (if you get access to or plan on getting Feydark at some point, max Cha).

This is very helpful. Why do you show such disdain towards Dexterity? It appears I was incorrectly prioritizing Wisdom.


Feats:
1) Two-Handed Fighting (makes THF a lot stronger)
1H) Power Attack (bonus damage; Precision is better but requires Dex 13)
1P) Sovereign Host (level 6 active heal is really strong)
3) Magical Training (allows you to heal infinitely out-of-combat)
6) Improved THF (boosts THF more)
9) Improved Critical: Slashing (melee DPS)
12) Greater THF (more THF fun!)
15) Force of Personality (shiny boost to Will saves)
18) Extra Turning (more turns = more win)
21) Overwhelming Critical (DPS)
24) Empower Healing Spell (or Quicken, or Toughness; mostly it's for Cocoon)
26D) Perfect THF (most THF fun!)
27) Blinding Speed (QoL and DPS)
28D) Perfect TWF (5% Doublestrike is DPS)
29D) Dire Charge (really great CC, really high DC)
30) Epic Damage Reduction (tanky = good)

Not grabbing Cleave b/c you get it via KotC, so saving feats = stronger. You could grab GCleave early which is nice, but then you have to trade two feats at Fred so that's expensive.

This looks a lot like what I was planning but I have two questions.

Is Magical Training for Echos of Power? Am I expected to adventure without a Hire to further reduce difficulty?

Why should I take Endless Turning? In my experience, Turn Undead is completely useless. Even on Normal difficulty on a Cleric with high Wisdom running over level it does nothing. I presumed it was one of those permanently broken things in DDO.


Epic Destiny path: start Unyielding Sentinel to level 4, then Divine Crusader 2 (for Confront Any Foe) then swap to Grandmaster of Flowers to 3, then Legendary Dreadnaught to 4, then cap out Shiradi before you take 26; then return to Martial sphere to cap GMoF/LD/Shadowdancer out. This gives access to PTHF and PTWF, which are both really great feats, and Dire Charge at 29. I think that plan wastes 30k XP, but CAF is really really strong so I prefer that over skipping DC.

This plan looks very good. Thank you.


Enhancements:
Start 1 AP into KotC, then 4 AP into Sacred Defender for more Lay on Hands - this is your earlygame survival tool.
Back to KotC for Improved Second Strikes, Holy Combatant, and then Exalted Attack > Core 2.
Over to Sacred Defender, grab Durable Defense III while getting C2 ASAP (hotbar & toggle stance).

After that, keep going around 2/3 into KotC and the rest into Sacred Defender. Key points: get +20% HP from SaD, get KotC T3 Holy Combatant (making Greatswords favored is great), one point in Lead the Charge for rushing Wizards. Get +6 Strength from SaD stance too whenever you can (and +3 saves on the way).

Level 12:
Respec to put most of your points (~39) into KotC. Grab the whole T5, highlights from before, Divine Might, +2 stats, Improved Turning, all the cores you can. Then back into Sacred Defender, and just spend points here the rest of the way.

SaD highlights: Cores, +15 PRR/MRR stance, +20% HP stance, +6 Str stance (or Con), +3 Lay on Hands, +10% Movespeed, +2 Cha, +3 saves.

At level 20:
41 AP KotC (as above + capstone)
31 AP SaD (Core 5, as above)

8 leftover AP. Generally this goes to Human, getting Healamp, +1 stat, and Fighting Style:Great Weapon Aptitude.

I'm not using a planner so I might have missed some stuff, but that should be most of the highlights at least so it's a place to start :)

This looks a lot like my Sword and Shield Paladin. I will follow this plan and see how it goes. Thank you.


Maxing Charisma gives you better survivability, but maxing Strength gives more damage (even with Divine Might). That's something you'll get to pick along the way :)

The first time around, I will build for defenses. I do not want to get into the teens and discover they are insufficient, as usual.


Spell highlights:

1) Divine Favor (stacking damage)
1) Protection from Evil (some immunities)
1) Lesser Restoration
1) Cure Light Wounds (your earlygame heal)
2) Angelskin (more PRR/MRR)
2) Righteous Command (free DPS)
3) Remove Curse
3) Cure Moderate Wounds (your general heal)
3) Prayer (replaces Divine Favor)
4) Holy Sword (DPS)
4) Zeal (more DPS)
4) Deathward (no instakills)
4) Restoration or Cure Serious

I will follow this plan and see how it goes. All my characters carry potions of Lesser Restoration, Neutralize Poison, Invisibility, Heroism, Jump, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Death Ward, Restoration, Cure Serious Wounds, Improved Healing, Angel Tears, Resist Acid, Resist Cold, Resist Electricity, Resist Fire, and Resist Sonic.


ED-wise, Fatesinger is probably the highest DPS for you, with Shadowdancer offering the best utility (Meld, Grim Precision, Pierce the Gloom, Epic moment) and Divine Crusader the best party value.

You'll want to be filling these out anyway, as that gets you more twist points which is really great.

Twists I'd recommend:

Rejuvenation Cocoon (Shiradi T1, extremely efficient healing)
Confront Any Foe (Divine Crusader T2, amazing active cleave attack - it hits 3x in an AoE, each of which can doublestrike)
Meld into Darkness (Shadowdancer T3, gives 95% Dodge which is near-invulnerability to melee/ranged for 15s/120s)

There's a lot of other good ones, but you won't have a lot of twist points yet and this keeps it simpler :)

If this works, I will convert one of my real characters into a Paladin for a while. They have all Epic Destinies unlocked.

Thank you again for the very detailed plan. I will start on this today.

[Discpsycho]

Why do you show such disdain towards Dexterity?


Armor Class is pretty all-or-nothing, and as a KOTC paladin you won't be able to attain the "all". That leaves Reflex saves (also pretty binary, and you won't have Evasion), ranged attacks (superfluous) and feats (typically Precision, but you're going for Power Attack to avoid spreading your starting stats too thin).



Is Magical Training for Echos of Power? Am I expected to adventure without a Hire to further reduce difficulty?


I tend to park a hireling near the entrance when soloing on squishier builds (which this is not) so I can emergency-rez if I can't reach a shrine.

I'd imagine Magical Training is a workaround for hirelings, which more elite players than I often don't bother with. On the other hand, Paladins don't need Cleave / Great Cleave and you have to spend those feats on something, so why not?



Why should I take Endless Turning? In my experience, Turn Undead is completely useless. Even on Normal difficulty on a Cleric with high Wisdom running over level it does nothing. I presumed it was one of those permanently broken things in DDO.


Turn Undead can work for a Cleric if you build for it - the issue is that (like in 3.5e) it scales off Cha rather than Wis. More importantly for Paladins, Turn Undead shares charges with Smite Evil (and Confront Any Foe in epics), so more charges = more boss beatdown

[Annex]

Armor Class is pretty all-or-nothing, and as a KOTC paladin you won't be able to attain the "all". That leaves Reflex saves (also pretty binary, and you won't have Evasion), ranged attacks (superfluous) and feats (typically Precision, but you're going for Power Attack to avoid spreading your starting stats too thin).



I tend to park a hireling near the entrance when soloing on squishier builds (which this is not) so I can emergency-rez if I can't reach a shrine.

I'd imagine Magical Training is a workaround for hirelings, which more elite players than I often don't bother with. On the other hand, Paladins don't need Cleave / Great Cleave and you have to spend those feats on something, so why not?



Turn Undead can work for a Cleric if you build for it - the issue is that (like in 3.5e) it scales off Cha rather than Wis. More importantly for Paladins, Turn Undead shares charges with Smite Evil (and Confront Any Foe in epics), so more charges = more boss beatdown

Thank you for the answers, Discpsycho.

.....

Anyway, I ran my new Paladin to level 5 running Elite and Reaper where possible. It was ugly. While I learned some things, the experiment was a complete failure and I will need to try something else.

[dennisck2]

27) Blinding Speed (QoL and DPS)


Great! Thanks for the detailed post. I agree with everything except this. You can get pretty much the same thing from a swiftness augment now. Just a heads up.

[SpartanKiller13]

Thank you again for the very detailed response, SpartanKiller13. To be clear, I have played most quests in this game to the point of exhaustion, just not in Reaper Mode or Elite at level. Since Normal and Hard reward such poor experience, I must replay quests over and over and over to achieve the same results as someone running in Reaper Mode. I have played most quests far more than a Reaper Mode player, not far less, because of the experience reward structure of DDO. The whole point of this exercise is to break into Reaper Difficulty since the vast majority of character power rewards reside there. I need to get over the hurdle because any character that cannot is doomed to suck forever. That is the reality of DDO today.

Fair! I just don't like making assumptions; I'm not trying to imply anything about you. I will say quest experience often differs on E/R vs N/H because of champions, reapers, and quest scaling; you often end up with larger numbers of enemies in a pack, for instance. Still, knowing the quests helps a ton for figuring out when you can yolo vs when you have to be more careful.


Even on Hard difficulty, failure to maintain protection against Magic Missiles often means instant death. In my experience, enemy spell casters become the most difficult around level 13 or so when they can instant kill with 1,000 point disintegrates and fire off damage spells in very rapid succession with no time to heal between attacks. Even my Fighter with 750 Hit Points and decent Magic Resistance Rating could not survive that. Unfortunately, Spell Absorption items get used up so quickly as to become useless in seconds.

Disintegrate is really close to being a save-or-die effect; if you hit the Fort save it's an average of 24 base vs 200 if you don't (before spellpower etc). Priority there is getting your saves high, and if that's your major concern looking into effects that allow you to succeed on a 1 (Human Action Boost for Saves works, or epic feats/twists). I'll see what I can fit into your build :)


The lack of any skill to lock up spell casters greatly concerns me. Again in my experience, running straight at the most powerful spell caster often means taking multiple high damage spells with no time to heal between them and if more enemies join it, the situation becomes untenable in a second. My Rogue Mechanic wipes the floor with those same enemies because she can tear them apart at range while dodging spells. Hopefully, she will continue to do that form level 13 to 20 when enemy spell casters are the most powerful.

There's the option to grab Stunning Blow or use native Trip for these sorts of things, but my experience in Heroics is that it's usually easier to kill them than to use CC. It's also why I really prioritize mobility options, but it's hard to hit 3 feats + 13 Dex for Spring Attack on a first-life Paladin. Lead the Charge helps, but that's really all you can get until 29 (outside EA which isn't a great ED for a melee).


In all cases, I find that things vastly improve form level 20 on because of much better equipment and Unyielding Sentinel. I would like to get to a point where Reaper Tree upgrades replace Unyielding Sentinel, thus allowing my Epic characters to switch to trees that actually increase damage.

Epic Defensive Fighting also helps 21+, but yeah a bit of RXP goes a long ways towards staying alive. And more DPS = enemies die faster = you take less damage.


As per my initial request for advice, I am building a Two Weapon Fighting Paladin. My Paladin who uses a Sword and Shield cannot inflict any damage. She is terrible against anything on level.

This is your initial request:

Is there a modern, first life, solo, Human Paladin build around here, somewhere? Seven or eight months back, I recall a thread in which the writer created such a character. I want to practice playing at higher difficulties.

I honestly still don't see anything about TWF there or in your other post, so I recommended the strongest option in THF. It's also a lot easier to do without tomes, as TWF requires 17 Dex which is a LOT to put into a stat that you aren't using for anything other than feat requirements. As a melee Paladin, you need Str/Con/Cha already, and adding TWF means you need Dex as well. Without tomes and as a first life you're stuck with lower numbers in most of those than I'd like (probably 14/16/14/8/8/16 or so, maybe swap Cha/Con) which is hurting yourself right from the start.

Also THF is objectively stronger than TWF since U45. There was a huge update to how THF works, and it received significant buffs. It's very strong, and scales much better with your main stat than any other damage type. I'm not trying to dissuade you, I just want you to be aware of what to expect. TWF Paladin will be weaker than an identical THF toon, and you're short a few ability points as well.


This is very helpful. Why do you show such disdain towards Dexterity? It appears I was incorrectly prioritizing Wisdom.

If you're going TWF it's a requirement for the TWF feat lines. Otherwise, as a Paladin you're incredibly MAD (dependent on like a LOT of stats) and as a first-life without tomes you don't start with a lot of points to spread anyway. Also I didn't see you were going for TWF.

Let's consider what +6 to Dex offers a THF Paladin:
+3 Reflex saves (these are the spells you can afford to tank the most, as they're basically all damage spells vs like instakills or Disintegrates or Hold Persons)
+3 AC (unless you're a dedicated AC tank, AC becomes nearly useless past level 13 or so)

Compare that to +4 Cha:
+2 all saves
20-60 more base heal from Lay on Hands
+2 tactics DC's
+1 to-hit & damage

Compare to +4 Str:
+2 to hit
+4-6 damage
+2 tactics

I would in every case take +4 Cha/Str over +6 Dex on a THF Paladin. I'd take +2 Cha/Str probably, for that matter. For TWF I'm looking to hit 17 and no more.


This looks a lot like what I was planning but I have two questions.

Is Magical Training for Echos of Power? Am I expected to adventure without a Hire to further reduce difficulty?

Why should I take Endless Turning? In my experience, Turn Undead is completely useless. Even on Normal difficulty on a Cleric with high Wisdom running over level it does nothing. I presumed it was one of those permanently broken things in DDO.

You asked for soloing, and to many that means no-hire :) if you bring a hire always, feel free to swap Magical Training out. It's also a pre-requisite for Feydark Illusionist, which allows this build to work that way if you ever get access to that tree (if it follows the pattern should be like 500 DDO points which is a few runs to 20 of favor; I can't recommend it enough for a Paladin). Also helps for affording Divine Might, but that's not hugely important if you keep a Wizardry aug on or something. Dumping Wis hurts your SP pool, but you kinda can't afford more Wis.

Hirelings are also worse as you increase difficulty. They don't scale, but their enemies do. More enemies hitting for harder means your hirelings die a lot more, so you usually end up parking your hire outside combat range and summoning them between fights (or for boss fights etc).

All the Turn-related stuff is mostly to get more Confront Any Foe uses per rest (it matters 20+). CAF is a monster active attack that demolishes stuff. You get 3 attacks in the same time as one, but they're all AoE cleaves, and every one can doublestrike (with 100% DS you hit 6x); it also has only 2s cooldown, so it's really spammable for bad situations. Feel free to skip out on the Turn stuff, but don't skip CAF. It's also great for powering Holy Retribution at 12+, but with the 30s cooldown running out of charges isn't as much of an issue.

For the record Turn Undead being used on undead is extremely good on Clerics given two factors: 1) Radiant Servant T2 Mighty Turning (link (https://ddowiki.com/page/Radiant_Servant_enhancements#Tier_Two)) and 2) some Turn gear (like Celestial Beacon - link (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Celestial_Beacon)). With it you can destroy entire groups of undead in heroics, scaling down as you go because enemy hit die scale very fast.


I will follow this plan and see how it goes. All my characters carry potions of Lesser Restoration, Neutralize Poison, Invisibility, Heroism, Jump, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Death Ward, Restoration, Cure Serious Wounds, Improved Healing, Angel Tears, Resist Acid, Resist Cold, Resist Electricity, Resist Fire, and Resist Sonic.

Can probably skip some of the spells then :p but note that your spellcast heals get your Devotion as well, so they'll be a lot better than chugging equivalent pots. You're definitely better stocked than I am though :)


Thank you again for the very detailed plan. I will start on this today.

Of course! Sorry it wasn't exactly what you were after.

Some notes:

If you're going TWF, start Dex 16 and put one level-up into it; fighting style feats are hugely important, and you need Dex 17 for the later ones. Since you have Dex, swap Power Attack out for Precision (it's just better past level 8 or so) and you can consider Spring Attack line if there's 3 feats available.

Honestly I think you would have a better Paladin experience as THF, but that doesn't mean it's a better personal experience. At the end of the day it's a game, so do what you have fun with :)

Sacrificing DPS for survivability is great until the point where your lower DPS means enemies have so much longer to beat on you that it's a loss.

Some more twists to consider:
Magister T1 Impregnable Mind (no-fail Will saves on a 1)
Draconic T1 Dragonhide (no-fail Fort saves on a 1)

------

You can also swap your 3/18/24 feats for other stuff like Stunning Blow, Toughness, or Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack for another gap-closer.

[SpartanKiller13]

I tend to park a hireling near the entrance when soloing on squishier builds (which this is not) so I can emergency-rez if I can't reach a shrine.

I'd imagine Magical Training is a workaround for hirelings, which more elite players than I often don't bother with. On the other hand, Paladins don't need Cleave / Great Cleave and you have to spend those feats on something, so why not?

Or if you're not running a hireling for whatever reason, or if your hireling has a tendency to walk into lava lol. Magical Training is also nice just for the SP (as a Wis-dump toon) and future-proof for Feydark Illusionist.


Anyway, I ran my new Paladin to level 5 running Elite and Reaper where possible. It was ugly. While I learned some things, the experiment was a complete failure and I will need to try something else.

I'm sorry to hear that. What server are you on? I'd be happy to make a fresh toon to run some stuff to see what's going on, if you're interested?


Great! Thanks for the detailed post. I agree with everything except this. You can get pretty much the same thing from a swiftness augment now. Just a heads up.

If you have one on your first-life toon this is a great idea! Consider grabbing Epic Will or something else there then (for no-fail 1's for Will saves, given that's a priority for the OP).

Personally I don't have enough Swiftness augs floating around, so I don't want to assume everyone else does.

[infael]

Do you play in a party? Solo?
Are you looking for a 15-30 quick IPL, or do you want to sit at cap, or do a stack of EPL's?
Do you typically run dailies/slayers 20-28 or like R1 stuff?
Do you have a lot of PL's/RAP/RP? (Vaguely)
Do you have access to Feydark Illusionist? Inquisitive?
What difficulty to you run/aim for, solo and in party?

Honestly now that Feydark is out there's a lot more options (assuming you have access to it).

Bard can play really well as a support, although IMO it's best multiclassed. I'm currently enjoying an alt that I set up as 15/4/1 Bard/Warlock/Alchemist (although I'd maybe redo as 12/5/3) spreading temp HP and heals across a raid group. Zero DPS/CC though, it's party-only.

You could run as a CC/Support machine also, like T5 Spellsinger + C4 Warchanter + Feydark = great songs, great buffs, tons of CC. Really dependent on having a party though lol.

Feydark + Inquisitive would set you up as a Cha-max build, and you could follow that with Spellsinger's Sustaining Song and be in a pretty solid spot. CC via GCS and like Sonic Blast, and ranged DPS for soloing plus shiny Bard songs for party setup. Probably the easiest option for soloing, but it's not glamorous and I'm not a fan of ranged DPS.

You could also do a Freezing Ice build with Warchanter, using some Swashbuckled weapon and Feydark. Between all the ice effects and backup GCS you'll have a lot of CC everywhere, and your melee is enough DPS to chip stuff down :) This one seems more fun, but YMMV.

------

As far as general Bard tips:
Max Perform - a lot of your stuff is gated behind it, and some DC's are based on it.
You have two types of song effects: active song buffs (all rolled into one button, your Bardic Inspiration) that you buff people one-at-a-time with, and your Ballad buffs (a passive aura effect).
Max Devotion - Spellsinger T4 Sustaining Song is insane in party scenarios, but is based on your current spellpower.

------

Gimme some details, what are ya interested in (or other angles to take) and what do ya have?

I join groups and solo when there aren't groups. Right now, I'm doing heroic/iconics for heroic completionist, while figuring out what my final build will be. So far, possible final builds are FvS or ranger.

I just wanna survive to 30 and not suck at surviving while pulling my weight. :)

[SpartanKiller13]

I join groups and solo when there aren't groups. Right now, I'm doing heroic/iconics for heroic completionist, while figuring out what my final build will be. So far, possible final builds are FvS or ranger.

I just wanna survive to 30 and not suck at surviving while pulling my weight. :)

Honestly in groups if you have T4 Spellsinger songs (and Inspire Excellence in epics) most groups will call that pulling your weight; everything else is QoL bonus, and you can provide a lot more than just that so it's really easy to be in a great spot. I ran a bunch of LR6's on my 20-30 route with my first-life Bard alt - mostly throwing songs and heals - and everyone enjoyed having me along despite my lack of DPS :) Your toon, being much more invested than mine (and probably with some relevant gear lol) is in a much better position to help a lot more than I did.

For a 15-30 quick life you're probably just looking for HR1 and Dailies/Slayers/joining Reaper groups; you also want to be solo-capable, which requires at least passable DPS, self-healing, and some sort of CC that works pretty well.

Your best two options I can see are Inquisitive or Freezing Ice Warchanter. Do you have access to Feydark Illusionist? (https://ddowiki.com/page/Feydark_Illusionist_enhancements) If so, you'll be a lot stronger than if you don't (because you can Cha-max for everything).

I'd do Warchanter personally, b/c I like melee and hate pew-pew. YMMV though lol.

Feydark Warchanter, Bard 20:

Feats:
1) SWF
3) Precision
6) Force of Personality
9) Improved SWF
12) Improved Critical (pick depending on your weapon choices)
15) Greater SWF
18) Quicken Spell (or Toughness)
21) Inspire Excellence
24) Overwhelming Critical
26D) Perfect SWF
27) Extend Spell/Epic DR (or Epic Toughness if you have 21 Con)
28D) Perfect TWF
29D) Dire Charge
30) Extend Spell/Epic DR
30L) Scion of Astral (for Tactics) or Arborea (for DPS)

Enhancements:
AP has some really good options; like more Feydark = GCS which is great CC, or more Swashbuckler allows you to SWF with a buckler for more DPS; but those knock you out of Spellsinger's Sustaining Song which is incredibly strong for party usage, or Warchanter's Capstone which looks really great for soloing or party CC.

Here's the best I can come up with:

45 AP Warchanter: All Cores, Sprints, Ironskin, Frozen Fury, +2 Cha, Recklessness, North Wind, Armorer, Full T5 (w/Fleeting Footsteps)
22 AP Spellsinger: Core 3, Sharp Note, Flicker, +1 Cha, Sustaining Song, Spell Song Trance
7 AP Feydark Illusionist: Familiar's Flourish 1/2, Illusory Weaponry
6 AP Swashbuckler: Core 2

You can skim some from Warchanter T5 (like drop to 41 for Feydark Greater Color Spray) as well.

Abilities:
Max Cha, get 13 Dex (10+ if you have a Tome), then max Con. Starting 10+ Str is nice for carrying capacity, but not critical.

Skills:
Max Perform > 7 ranks in Balance > 10 ranks in Jump > UMD > else

Cha-max means you'll have great DC's for Warchanter stuff (pick up Stunning gear), Feydark GCS works great with a little Illusion Focus gear - it falls of at endgame, but you get Dire Charge then. DPS won't be amazing, but you have Warchanter stuff and a Swashbuckling weapon which is neato :)

[kaoshin]

Hello! Any suggestions for a sorcerer build that can function in R4-R6 with a stable and consistent party? I've been playing almost exclusively divine casters prior to this point though I do have that one important wizard past life to get access to past-life wizard.

[SpartanKiller13]

Hello! Any suggestions for a sorcerer build that can function in R4-R6 with a stable and consistent party? I've been playing almost exclusively divine casters prior to this point though I do have that one important wizard past life to get access to past-life wizard.

Hey! Are you looking for R4-6 for leveling (1-20, 1-30, or what?), or like R1 to endgame then R4-6 there, or?

Mikkarddo's build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/521378-Sorcer-Build-R4-R6?p=6397752&viewfull=1#post6397752) seems pretty fine, or I'd look over Strimtom's Fire Sorc guide (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/506304-The-Best-Way-To-Level-Fire-Sorcerer-Build?p=6221078) (and the thread following it, there's some interesting discussion)

Sorc hasn't changed much recently, and you have a tank and a healer in a static; almost any build will be able to function with that setup lol. I'd recommend Tiefling for the Fire bypass if that's an option (especially if you have racial AP) but it's hard to go wrong with most choices.

Is there something specific you're after?

[kaoshin]

Hey! Are you looking for R4-6 for leveling (1-20, 1-30, or what?), or like R1 to endgame then R4-6 there, or?

Mikkarddo's build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/521378-Sorcer-Build-R4-R6?p=6397752&viewfull=1#post6397752) seems pretty fine, or I'd look over Strimtom's Fire Sorc guide (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/506304-The-Best-Way-To-Level-Fire-Sorcerer-Build?p=6221078) (and the thread following it, there's some interesting discussion)

Sorc hasn't changed much recently, and you have a tank and a healer in a static; almost any build will be able to function with that setup lol. I'd recommend Tiefling for the Fire bypass if that's an option (especially if you have racial AP) but it's hard to go wrong with most choices.

Is there something specific you're after?

My group slash little mini guild tends to leap into Reaper as quickly as we can. so the leveling while playing reaper starts pretty fast. Thank you for the suggestions! As far as specifics go I was mostly looking for a starting point. We only really delved into Reaper 4+ on this most recent past life and it is definitely a different ball-game from R1-3. The build I'd been running as one of the divines petered out hard into 4, but I was experienced enough with the classes to have been able to pivot into something relevant. Sorcerer is definitely not in my comfort zone so while I can use the general principles learned in that past life I don't have the background knowledge with Sorc to know what works and doesn't work in practice instead of on paper.

[SpartanKiller13]

My group slash little mini guild tends to leap into Reaper as quickly as we can. so the leveling while playing reaper starts pretty fast. Thank you for the suggestions! As far as specifics go I was mostly looking for a starting point. We only really delved into Reaper 4+ on this most recent past life and it is definitely a different ball-game from R1-3. The build I'd been running as one of the divines petered out hard into 4, but I was experienced enough with the classes to have been able to pivot into something relevant. Sorcerer is definitely not in my comfort zone so while I can use the general principles learned in that past life I don't have the background knowledge with Sorc to know what works and doesn't work in practice instead of on paper.

Well, in U41 there was the Arcane Spell Pass where a bunch of arcane spells got enormous damage buffs. Since then divine blast-casting fell off really hard (as they basically didn't get any damage) and Sorc nukers in particular got a huge boost. Wizards got better too, but Sorcs have shorter CD's and more SP so they benefit more from better base spells (although Sorc enhancements are hot garbage compared to Wizard ones). Also EK got a pass fairly recently so it's a great supporting tree.

Basically go down this list, use the relevant spells from this link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/501316-U41-Preview-2-Arcane-DPS-Spells-Pass) :)

Sorc's main weaknesses are 1) they're squishy and 2) no innate self-healing. Since you run with a dedicated healer and tank those are much lower concern, although you can mitigate it somewhat by doing stuff like playing a Warforged (for self-repair, at the cost of a Cha penalty) or Halfling (for healing dragonmark) or with a Wis tome Aasimar (for Healing Hands). Or of course UMD scrolls/wands etc, but in R4 self-heals are -72% so that's really slow. Spending some points into EK also helps a bit especially earlygame (10 PRR/MRR, Shield SLA, Arcane Barrier, and some HP).

It's also harder to get effective DC's or spellpen as a Sorc (Wizzy gets a ton of bonuses and bonus feats = even more). You don't care much about spellpen (it only matters for instakills & non-physical CC) but DC's are pretty important for landing damage. A lot of your damage spells will be Reflex half, which means 0 damage against Evasion mobs unless you can pump your DC's high enough. Sharn stuff like archers in particular are pretty hard to get DC's for. That said, you have some great options like Necrotic Ray (boatload of damage, Fort-half, but doesn't work on everything) Disintegrate (great damage, works on everything, but more expensive and Fort save vs most of the damage) or Polar Ray (no save no SR just eat it). At level 18+ you get Meteor Swarm, which has no save for the bludgeoning part and Acid Well, which is a Fort save AOE so you get at least half effectiveness :)

Mostly I'd be looking for high-damage AoE stuff, some single-target damage for priority targets and bosses, and some CC stuff (Otto's Irresistible Dance is amazing for Reapers/Champs/whatever). Pump your DC's and Spellpower (Ravenloft belts are BiS). Web & Disco ball are both great, but their durations are reduced in Reaper so they start to fall off as you push skulls.

Your first few levels will be trash. That's ok! Once you get Scorch etc you'll be in a much better spot, but really it picks up level 6 when you get the fun stuff like Fireball. If you're not Tiefling probably better to go Acid Ball (less resistant/immune enemies) but some of that will depend on which Savant tree you want to go into (mostly between Fire which is best DPS generally - especially later on b/c Meteor Swarm, and Air which has Wings at 12+ but has Lightning Bolt which sucks even though Chain Lightning is the boss).

[MrGharus]

Do you have access to Harper Agent tree? If not, it'll be a lot weaker. If you do, you should be great :)



I have Harper Agent, Vistani (obviously), and Feydark Illusionist. What do I take in the Harper tree to go with Pale Master?

Thanks again for your input.

[SpartanKiller13]

I have Harper Agent, Vistani (obviously), and Feydark Illusionist. What do I take in the Harper tree to go with Pale Master?

Thanks again for your input.

You need Strategic Combat I and II for Int-to-Hit and Int-to-Damage respectively. This allows you to max out your Int and use it as one stat to rule them all (well, and Con for HP) - it's your trapping stat, your skills stat, your spell point stat, your melee stat, etc. Also in Harper you can get Know the Angles, which is a really solid DPS & Tactics boost once you start getting more Int (it's a little expensive early). To fill out points in Harper I'd grab +1 Int, and then probably Harper Enchantment or +HP.

You could run as default Str-based, but you'd still need Int for skills/skill points (to trap) and you'd still really want Dex 13 for Precision so your ability scores get spread out a lot more than I'd like. With tomes you have more options (like TWF becomes an option) but without tomes you want to focus one stat as much as possible. I wouldn't recommend this vs going Harper, unless you have a solid plan.

Feydark could also be a great addition for like Greater Color Spray, but you just won't have the AP for that for a while lol. 12 AP into Human, 12 AP into Harper, 6 AP into PM, and that's not even into VKF yet :p I mean if you have a fat stack of racial PL's sure, but I'd expect you to have tomes were that to be the case. It seems hard to justify 11 AP into Feydark vs more VKF or grabbing some Eldritch Knight goodies.

[Sorcinator]

Hello, a little about my character. Class and Racial completionist. +8 tomes. All classes, enhancement trees are available. While not ideal i can live with alignment and class changes through whatever lesser TR'ing i need to do.

I'd like to see a build that can play low reaper and isn't useless if i join a higher level reaper group. Thanks

[SpartanKiller13]

Hello, a little about my character. Class and Racial completionist. +8 tomes. All classes, enhancement trees are available. While not ideal i can live with alignment and class changes through whatever lesser TR'ing i need to do.

I'd like to see a build that can play low reaper and isn't useless if i join a higher level reaper group. Thanks

Is there something I'm missing? You have like 60 PL's, and at least a bunch of them required various classes to be run; were you not in low Reaper for most of that? Just trying to understand so I can help more lol.

Barbarian 20 works great for solo low Reaper and is fine in a high Reaper group lol, and that doesn't require anything fancy. What are you looking for then, if not that?

Is this your endgame build? Do you want to sit for raids, or run R8's at cap, or are you just looking for a quick IPL, or what?

Generally speaking ignore the racial stuff as far as building TWF handwraps - which is flaming hot garbage for a Barbarian (and most of the shiny stuff from Razorclaw uncenters you so Monk isn't great either).

Go THF, use Magic Fang for 2-7 free damage (it works with your weapons too), get cores for more Rage & Str, and get +Con while raging (applies to your Barbarian rage even if you can't stack it). Swap that for Howl if you raid or run high skulls (+12 to-hit and -12 AC to enemies is ~4% party DPS buff), otherwise grab Pounce for a gap-closer and get Destructive Shifting. Ignore the handwraps stuff, active attacks, and TWF stuff. Per Steelstar (at this link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/518085-U47-Preview-3-Razorclaw-Shifter?p=6360196&viewfull=1#post6360196)) Destructive Shifting should still grant Improved Destruction and on-Vorpal knockdown for non-Handwraps, so it's some pretty nice free CC especially in FotW (with 19-20 Vorpals) and when THF using Strikethrough; might be bugged and not working though, but I haven't heard anyone try since Lama.

That should eat up ~14 racial AP which should be about what you have (depending on racial AP tomes) at which point you can follow standard Barbarian methodology (Ravager T5 for soloing, Frenzied Berserker T5 for DPS/partying, Occult Slayer T5 for tankiness/survivability). Kinda nothing to it lol.

[Sorcinator]

I will stay at cap unless it really isn't fun. I could build a barb but i wanted to see what you could come up with that might be better. I was essentially giving you a blank check per say. I rarely solo, grouping and raiding would be my main interests. I haven't played a lot in the last couple years and anything i have done i've rushed through as fast as possible. I've forgot more ddo than most people know lol. Thanks

[SpartanKiller13]

I will stay at cap unless it really isn't fun. I could build a barb but i wanted to see what you could come up with that might be better. I was essentially giving you a blank check per say. I rarely solo, grouping and raiding would be my main interests. I haven't played a lot in the last couple years and anything i have done i've rushed through as fast as possible. I've forgot more ddo than most people know lol. Thanks

This is sorta like going to a dealership and writing a blank check and being surprised when you get a minivan. Good utility, meets your nebulous requirements, and easy for the dealer lol.

Here's your wacky variant for the day:

12/4/1 Barbarian/Bard/Artificer - call yourself Wolverine

Enhancements:

35 AP Frenzied Berserker (Core 4, Extra Rage, Cracking Attack, Blood Tribute, Focused Wide, Focused Wrath, Accelerated Metabolism
26 AP Spellsinger (Lingering Songs, Studies, Sharp Note, Spellsong Trance, Sustaining Song, Frolic, Song of Arcane Might)
11 AP Occult Slayer or Ravager (Core 3)
4 AP Falconry (Core 1, Out In Nature)
2 AP Renegade Mastermaker (Core 1, Easily Fixed)

Healamp:

50 FB
20 OS/Ravager
15 Falconry
10 RMM
20 Font of Life
20 Scion of Feywild
30 Paladin x3
20 Bath House
20 Exalted Angel T3 Purity of Essence
20 Fatesinger T3 Third Harmonic Chord
~180 gear (Winter III, Chrism/PotF armor, Mysterious Cloak, Ironclad Armbands)

~405 Healamp (you could get 20 more via US and 10 more via Primal Hymn, but not worth the MP loss compared to Fatesinger.

Given Silverthread you'll probably be in 7-800 Positive Spellpower range. Given Fatesinger you'll probably have 200ish MP (assuming you haven't farmed a bunch of Mythic/Reaper boost stuff)

Make sure you twist Fast Healing from FotW, run Fast Healing EPL stance, and you're good to go :) Plenty of MP, lots of Devotion, and hilariously stacked Healamp = tons of free sustain! And your whole raid group will enjoy fat heals and some nice buffs from your Bard songs.

And you still have FB T5 with a Falchion so your DPS isn't bad, and you get Greater Rage & Improved Uncanny Dodge both for nice goodies. Last 3 levels can go wherever you want.

Go THF for obvious reasons, and boom!

-------

I'd be happy to detail it more if you seem vaguely interested, but guess what I already spent over an hour on this and I'm 95% confident you're just going to ignore it. This is why I gave you a quick cookie-cutter build and asked for details.

[Aldebrande]

I'm trying to figure out a good monk build for farming martial ERs. I'm looking for a two handed build rather than ranged, and human, but otherwise don't really have any specifications/requirements. I'll have +2 or better tomes in each attribute by the time I run this, with 3 dwarf past lives and 6 or so epic past lives. I didn't see one that stuck out as a good THF monk when I as glancing through the builds, but if I missed one let me know.

[partybasher]

Hello!

I have a morning lord+cleric life I need to get done. I was thinking going inquisitive, splashing artificer for rune arm (possibly go more than 2 arti, and maybe an additional rogue/fighter/ranger splash. as long as I get a cleric PL it's all good).
Conflicted between wisdom (falconry, helpless damage, sprint boost!) and intelligence (trapping) and I can't decide.

I have access to:
all universal trees except feydark
all classes.
+5 tomes all around, toon is a heroic completionist with multiple epic and iconic past lives.
+1 universal tree AP, +5 racial AP.
42 reaper AP (I'd like to run r1 at minimum)

Goal is a quick iconic life. If I enjoy it I'll run another ER, otherwise 15-30 and that's it.

As you can see, I'm a pretty experienced player. Just can't figure out what to do with morning lord...

Thank you very much in advance!

[Sorcinator]

Hmm i like it, i've played a tank for the last few years. 12/4/4 pally/ftr/arti and DC for soloing and low reaper swapping to US for raid or tanking specific quests. I really liked the versatility with being able to trap, and off heal with DC or by twisting sacred ground/consecration in US. I believe this will be a DPS variant (DPS compared to my tank anyway) of a self healing trapper that adds to the group and i'm sure we can get some CC in there too. Not sure how high the DC will be though as i haven't played a STR build in many years.

This will have have nice versatility. Also there's always someone using sacred ground as long as i'm paying attention to where it is. Would 4 arti be worth it or 6 bard and 2 arti maybe? Any thoughts on rogue instead of arti for evasion or is evasion not worth it anymore? Now you got me thinking too lol. I haven't played anything like this before but i believe i could adapt nicely to it. Would this work with bastard swords and a runearm? I would LTR so i can get the Arti live at lv 1 for the extra points towards trapping.

I do have (or will tomorrow) the 14 racial plus the +1 Universal tome for universal enhancement trees. I have 28 fate points and 38 reaper points.

I have a fair amount of Feywild gear so that'd be my main source of gear currently. I have some ravenloft and sharn gear as well but i missed time when those where at the height of hardcore farming. I will be doing all three lives so i will have 2 lives to play around with some variables. I should be able to get TR'd into this tomorrow. If you'd like to expand more i will follow up with how it works. I also know time is precious so the core of the build you put down will get me started. If it's fun please detail it out but stop before it becomes work. I totally get the fun in building but i'm too OCD and then i get frustrated and just end up winging it. I play NBA2k games sometimes as well and i have way more fun managing the team i like than i ever do actually playing the basketball portion of it.

PS might TR tonight depending on how fast i finish leveling vs how much drinkin i get done lol. Thanks for your help.

[SpartanKiller13]

I'm trying to figure out a good monk build for farming martial ERs. I'm looking for a two handed build rather than ranged, and human, but otherwise don't really have any specifications/requirements. I'll have +2 or better tomes in each attribute by the time I run this, with 3 dwarf past lives and 6 or so epic past lives. I didn't see one that stuck out as a good THF monk when I as glancing through the builds, but if I missed one let me know.

THF Monk = staff build. Unbongwah has one as a Henshin w/Falconry, see if that's what you're after? (Link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/514776-qtaff-monk-build?p=6321647&viewfull=1#post6321647))

You can multiclass, but that's mostly for heroics as the Henshin capstone is pretty tasty. Farming martial EPL's is mostly going to be dailies etc so it's more about movespeed and trash-clearing than anything else. Falconry sprints + Abundant Step = win.

Stat-wise just make sure you start with 17-tomes in Str (so with +2 tome start 15) for THF requirements, 13-tomes in Dex (for Precision, which is way better than Power Attack in epics), and then max Wis > Con.

I wouldn't take Combat Expertise, I'd instead push a feat from later and take Deflect Arrows as your Monk 6 feat. You could also drop Power Attack/Cleave/Great Cleave line for Dodge+Mobility+Spring Attack for yet another dash (given high Strikethrough your AoE is easier). Maybe try that in one of your ER's :)

[SpartanKiller13]

Hello!

I have a morning lord+cleric life I need to get done. I was thinking going inquisitive, splashing artificer for rune arm (possibly go more than 2 arti, and maybe an additional rogue/fighter/ranger splash. as long as I get a cleric PL it's all good).
Conflicted between wisdom (falconry, helpless damage, sprint boost!) and intelligence (trapping) and I can't decide.

I have access to:
all universal trees except feydark
all classes.
+5 tomes all around, toon is a heroic completionist with multiple epic and iconic past lives.
+1 universal tree AP, +5 racial AP.
42 reaper AP (I'd like to run r1 at minimum)

Goal is a quick iconic life. If I enjoy it I'll run another ER, otherwise 15-30 and that's it.

As you can see, I'm a pretty experienced player. Just can't figure out what to do with morning lord...

Thank you very much in advance!

FVS Inquisitive is tried-and-true, so I don't see why Cleric Inquisitive would be significantly worse or even much different. I'd consider Animal Domain to equalize them a bit (you get a dash, some Fort bypass, and a fat chunk of HP).

If you go Int-based there's very little reason to stay heavy Cleric. Mass Heal is hilariously slow = bad and you won't have DC's for the rest of 9th-level spells. Cleric 15 gets you full domain + Death Pact which is pretty helpful for soloing (and Holy Aura for buffs). Fighter or Paladin 3 gets you +20% HP stance if you can afford 13 AP - which is always appreciated (or Rogue 2 for evasion given Insightful Reflexes for saves).

If you go Wis-based you get some instakills and more SP mostly. Blast-casting for Clerics just isn't a thing past heroics (and like EN) even with better-scaled spells like Chain Lightning via Air Domain. So mostly you're looking at Implosion & Destruction (and whatever your Domain provides) - FWIW Implosion is rad, and works on a lot of stuff that you'll be bad at as an Inquisitive (like constructs). Mass Frog is excellent but only useful for 28-29 so it's kinda late. I'd go with Death Domain (for SLA Destruction) or maybe Earth Domain (if you've used Earthquake and like it) or just Animal Domain (if you don't want to think and want a dash + HP).

Honestly I'm really fond of Falconry; going Int-based is basically trading your spellcasting for Insightful-Reflexes powered Evasion, no? +5 tome means you should have enough skill points for Search/Disable Device like always, so that's not a huge concern. I don't know 20-29 meta for Inquisitives that well though, and running full plate seems just fine (for MRR cap and a bunch of PRR) so I don't think it's required lol. If you dip Fighter/Pally for HP that's worth mentioning as well, but as a ranged toon who can heal you shouldn't have a lot of trouble staying alive IMO.

I guess it mostly depends on if you expect to be able to land DC's while leveling. If so, Wis-based is probably better - Implosion, Destruction, and Falconry in general are all very nice. If you can't land DC's why bother, Int-based is cheap and easy (and Defender stance + Animal = lots of free HP).

Does that help a bit?

[SpartanKiller13]

Hmm i like it, i've played a tank for the last few years. 12/4/4 pally/ftr/arti and DC for soloing and low reaper swapping to US for raid or tanking specific quests. I really liked the versatility with being able to trap, and off heal with DC or by twisting sacred ground/consecration in US. I believe this will be a DPS variant (DPS compared to my tank anyway) of a self healing trapper that adds to the group and i'm sure we can get some CC in there too. Not sure how high the DC will be though as i haven't played a STR build in many years.

This will have have nice versatility. Also there's always someone using sacred ground as long as i'm paying attention to where it is. Would 4 arti be worth it or 6 bard and 2 arti maybe? Any thoughts on rogue instead of arti for evasion or is evasion not worth it anymore? Now you got me thinking too lol. I haven't played anything like this before but i believe i could adapt nicely to it. Would this work with bastard swords and a runearm? I would LTR so i can get the Arti live at lv 1 for the extra points towards trapping.

I do have (or will tomorrow) the 14 racial plus the +1 Universal tome for universal enhancement trees. I have 28 fate points and 38 reaper points.

I have a fair amount of Feywild gear so that'd be my main source of gear currently. I have some ravenloft and sharn gear as well but i missed time when those where at the height of hardcore farming. I will be doing all three lives so i will have 2 lives to play around with some variables. I should be able to get TR'd into this tomorrow. If you'd like to expand more i will follow up with how it works. I also know time is precious so the core of the build you put down will get me started. If it's fun please detail it out but stop before it becomes work. I totally get the fun in building but i'm too OCD and then i get frustrated and just end up winging it. I play NBA2k games sometimes as well and i have way more fun managing the team i like than i ever do actually playing the basketball portion of it.

PS might TR tonight depending on how fast i finish leveling vs how much drinkin i get done lol. Thanks for your help.

Ok I'm not sure if this is a build request or you want someone to look at it or what lol; but it's definitely not what I was talking about :p

Going Pally as a Razorclaw requires at least 2 LR's (swap Barb for Arti, swap Alignment to LG) which is worth considering IMO.

What's the goal of the /4 Fighter in that build? Going 15/4/1 Pally/Arti/Fighter seems strictly better, giving Holy Sword + Zeal as DPS boosters right? CC would mostly be from Dire Charge regardless. Feydark Illusionist can get you Greater Color Spray for CC and you can run Cha-max which is pretty solid as a Paladin (given Divine Grace).

Bard can't multiclass with Paladin; Bard requires non-Lawful and Paladin requires Lawful Good. Believe me, I'd have a billion Bard/Paladin builds by now if not :(

Bastard Sword + runearm is viable, but it's almost certainly inferior to THF; THF dominates the meta for a reason, it's really really strong.

A good build can be the difference between a great experience and a poor one, so I'm happy to help lol but we've gotta be on the same page for that :p

[Sorcinator]

Oops sorry for the confusion. I was just explaining what i had been playing. I fully intend to use your build. I wasn't planning to bring in any of my last build. I didn't TR last night. I have to get a bit more favor and empty the TR cache still. I'm a hoarder so that's always horrible lol. Thanks

[CrackedIce]

I'd be fairly surprised if bows become meta even so lol. But fair :)

I don't think Ameliorating Strike was ever on-hit? There was a period on Lama when it was "when your smite crits" but that was changed when it went live in 2013 (link (https://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Warpriest_enhancements&oldid=196672)). It's still nice, and better now that Smite has a 12s CD, but it would possibly be the strongest enhancement in DDO if it was on-hit lol. If you're looking for party support it's also pretty handy as an AoE heal that doesn't slow your DPS down.

10% Doubleshot is nice from Warpriest T4, and Magical Backlash from T3 is surprisingly helpful when fighting casters (whenever there's >1 and they get to cast, it's knocking someone down with no effort on your part). Still, yeah, it's a harder sell spending >20 AP there vs like grabbing more AA stuff (more dice, more DC's, Paralyzing, etc).

If you're looking for party support I'd recommend against terror arrows. In certain niches they're good (soloing, all-ranged DPS party, probably something else too) but most of the time you're just chasing mobs away from your melees and out of range of your spellcasters, which is pretty frustrating for everyone involved. A lot of people will ask you to not use them, myself included. There are few things more annoying than having to chase and single-target literally every mob lol, especially now in the golden age of AoE. By all means roll up a test toon (vet 7 works great) and try it, but I think you'll agree.

If you're not just in for Terror Arrows, AA T4 gets a lot more desirable (+2 damage dice w/scaling, +2 DC's, Paralyzing option, etc). And then you're nearly back where we started, 39 DWS/24 AA = 17 leftover AP lol.

I was thinking that ameliorating strike worked off of doublestrikes as well as each proc from tempests Dod. But it's use it greatly mitigated since it only price once every 12 seconds now.

Anyway, I mentioned terror arrows over paralyzing ones since cost of AP is significantly less for a bit of cc option. I would still consider it a splash into AA.

In the above example of 12 Ranger / 7 cleric / 1x. I would consider wisdom based falconry with 27 spent / 38 deepwood / 15 AA instead of warpriest.

As you said, trying to stay away from 39 deepwood, 24 AA, since it locks me out of another T4 tier.

Thanks

[SpartanKiller13]

I was thinking that ameliorating strike worked off of doublestrikes as well as each proc from tempests Dod. But it's use it greatly mitigated since it only price once every 12 seconds now.

Anyway, I mentioned terror arrows over paralyzing ones since cost of AP is significantly less for a bit of cc option. I would still consider it a splash into AA.

In the above example of 12 Ranger / 7 cleric / 1x. I would consider wisdom based falconry with 27 spent / 38 deepwood / 15 AA instead of warpriest.

As you said, trying to stay away from 39 deepwood, 24 AA, since it locks me out of another T4 tier.

Thanks

Imagine getting 6 procs in a go from 200% ST and 100% Doublestrike :p might be a bit OP. Used to have a 20s CD though, so at least that part's nicer :)

Yeah, Terror arrows are cheaper but IMO far inferior for most uses. But yeah, the AP lockouts hurt a lot lol.

Hope that helped a bit!

[CrackedIce]

Imagine getting 6 procs in a go from 200% ST and 100% Doublestrike :p might be a bit OP. Used to have a 20s CD though, so at least that part's nicer :)

Yeah, Terror arrows are cheaper but IMO far inferior for most uses. But yeah, the AP lockouts hurt a lot lol.

Hope that helped a bit!

Yes, it's helpful to have someone bounce ideas to. Also, ameliorating strike was before ST and improved precise shot usage, so made a bit more sense then.

In the end of the day, most builds, for optimization, end up pretty cookie cutter since enhancements are tied to tiers, and tiers gate abilities behind a set number of AP points.

As far as the build I will end up with I am kinda stuck with bow as that is my favorite playstyle and am playing with brand new players so am going to have to fulfill role of trapper, spot heals, and cc. I am going harper for intelligence to hit and damage (gotta get those traps) but will end up with paralyzing arrows and tier five deepwood. Should be good enough. Taking trickery domain for cleric splash.

(I am saving my ddo points for possible horizon archer pickup instead of falconry should that be the better choice)

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Merfyn]

Apologies if this was previously asked & answered:

I'm looking for a "teen" support iconic character to run in a dual- or triple- box environment.
The twist is that the second account only has Shadar-Kai, PDK, and Morninglord iconics and I don't want to eat any tomes removing their basic class.
The account does not have alchemist.
The account also does not have dragonborn, drow (though that's doable), gnome, wood elf, half-elf, half-orc, tiefling, or shifter. Hence the request for an iconic.


I found (and promptly lost) a nice teen-level support bard build with limited trapping capability somewhere (if anyone can point it out I'd appreciate it). At the time I wondered if a Shadar-Kai would work but that -2 Charisma would seem to be a big hurtle for a bard.

Leveling this character is irrelevant; they're there for auras, extra hireling, battle buffs, and more loot with storage. I believe Veteran 1 is an option so I'll make a pre-teen support bard along the above lines for the next reincarnation.

[troublegurl]

Hello I've played before then take time away I'm back and looking
for a first life 32 pt barbarian that's an updated build.
No tomes, no gear, I'm looking for free to play
Thank you For your help in Advance

[SpartanKiller13]

Apologies if this was previously asked & answered:

I'm looking for a "teen" support iconic character to run in a dual- or triple- box environment.
The twist is that the second account only has Shadar-Kai, PDK, and Morninglord iconics and I don't want to eat any tomes removing their basic class.
The account does not have alchemist.
The account also does not have dragonborn, drow (though that's doable), gnome, wood elf, half-elf, half-orc, tiefling, or shifter. Hence the request for an iconic.


I found (and promptly lost) a nice teen-level support bard build with limited trapping capability somewhere (if anyone can point it out I'd appreciate it). At the time I wondered if a Shadar-Kai would work but that -2 Charisma would seem to be a big hurtle for a bard.

Leveling this character is irrelevant; they're there for auras, extra hireling, battle buffs, and more loot with storage. I believe Veteran 1 is an option so I'll make a pre-teen support bard along the above lines for the next reincarnation.

Morning!

For a buff-bot, Bard 12 is pretty mandatory. 15 gives some pretty nice song bonuses, 18 doubles your Ballad range (which we'll aim for today), and 20 is garbage (+1 to Hit/Damage) so I'd recommend multiclassing at least a little. Do you have Warlock? If so, Brilliance is pretty great. Still, I'll assume you don't.

Most aura buffs require you to be not-in-backpack; is this something you're planning on?
Do you plan on epics as well, or just late Heroics? If just Heroics, you can ditch Cha almost entirely. If you're going into Epics it matters more.

Losing -2 Cha is really minor. Warchanter T4 Fighting Spirit uses Cha for Temp HP in your Ballad, but you're talking -2 temp HP/10s (or -4 in epics) which basically isn't impactful. Go SDK, max out trap skills and if you have some gear etc you can probs hit traps and locks etc.

18/2 SDK Bard/Rogue

Mostly max Cha, start 16ish Int, leftovers in Con. Can put some points into Str for carrying capacity if you want (although you can itemize it). Level-ups into Cha (for Fighting Spirit). Can start Dex 13 for Spring Attack if you want a little easier trapping (depending on how well you know quests).

Skills: max trapping skills > Perform > Jump to 10 > Heal > UMD > whatever (Swim?). Maybe grab a few social skills?

Feats: Improved Bardic Music (at 12), Quicken Spell, Extend Spell. Everything else is at your leisure (3x for Spring Attack for trapping, 4 Toughness feats, Empower Healing, Insightful Reflexes > Lighting Reflexes > Luck of Heroes; hell, you can take Skill Focus: Search).

AP for buffing spellcasters:

33 Spellsinger (all the song stuff, Lingering Songs, Sustaining Song, +2 Cha, Spell Song Vigor, Cores if you run non-living toons).
23 Warchanter (Core 4, Ballad Stuff, +2 Cha, all the Positive Spellpower stuff).
24 leftover

AP for buffing damage toons:

39 Warchanter (Core 5, Inspire Bravery, Enchant Weapons, all the Ballad Stuff, +2 Cha, all the Positive Spellpower stuff, Chant of Power, Fleeting Footsteps).
26 Spellsinger (song stuff, Lingering Songs, Sustaining Song, Frolic, +2 Cha).
15 leftover

Leftovers into Mechanic for Mechanics, Awareness, and Skill Boost; or SDK for Nothing is Hidden if you can afford it & have good enough trapping skills.

For gear, max Positive Spellpower (for Sustaining Song), then max Cha, then it's all about trap skills (and Int) and some survivability stuff so you can get across traps. Pump your Reflex saves, you have Evasion after all :p

------

Earlygame version of this build can dump Cha to like 12, and then invest more in Int for trapping skills probs (I'd take Insightful Reflexes or go Dex + Spring Attack). For leveling AP, rush Spellsinger for Sustaining Song, then go Warchanter for Ballads.

------

That about what you're looking for?

[Merfyn]

That about what you're looking for?Yessir! Most appreciated.

Not quite sure what you mean by "not-in-backpack"... Yes, I believe the account has warlock and no, I don't intend to pull this toon into epics. Not even reaper, at least very often.

The worst I intend the toon to face is having to go grab my main account's soul gem if things go pear-shaped. I figure invisibility ought to take care of that.

As I said earlier, I'm probably going to use a 3rd account once I have enough of my primary account characters through TR. I'm a filthy casual so I generally have to make time when real life doesn't intrude.

Darn you, real life! {/shake fist}

[SpartanKiller13]

Hello I've played before then take time away I'm back and looking
for a first life 32 pt barbarian that's an updated build.
No tomes, no gear, I'm looking for free to play
Thank you For your help in Advance

Welcome back! Barbarian is still pretty straightforward.

If you're going to 30, stay pure Barbarian. If you're only going to 20, consider dipping Fighter 2 somewhere in the 4-8 range - early Haste Boost is really good, and +2 feats is always appreciated.

Abilities: Max Str > Con > else. Levelups to Str.
Skills: Get like 10 Jump > else.

Feats:
1) THF
3) Power Attack
6) ITHF
9) ICrit:Slashing
12) GTHF
15) your choice
18) your choice
21) Overwhelming Critical
24) your choice
26) PTHF
27) Blinding Speed
28) PTWF (for Doublestrike)
29) Dire Charge
30) Epic Damage Reduction
30L) Scion of Arborea

You have 3 spare feats (4 if Human). Once you have tomes you can grab Dodge > Mobility > Spring Attack for a gapcloser (you need Dex 13), but for now I'd probably just get Toughness x3. Later in your career you can ditch Blinding Speed, but it's very nice QoL before you start having Speed Augments and Speed gear everywhere.

Enhancements:
Rush into Frenzied Berserker for Blood Tribute. This will carry your earlygame. I also really like Sprint Boosts in FB, to get to enemy casters faster.

If you dipped /2 Fighter, spend 4 AP into Kensei for Haste Boost, which is a really solid DPS boost. Use it often :)

Afterwards, pick a tree that looks cool and go ham :) Most stuff is good until you get to level 12, where you'll want to pick a Tier 5 to specialize in. Here's a quick rundown:


Frenzied Berserker is generally the best DPS (FB with a Falchion is amazing, and you get tons of Strikethrough = splash damage), but worst sustain. You usually will have some points here though anyway (for Blood Tribute and Strikethrough). Cracking Attack line is also pretty great for bosses (and +1.5W if you T5 here).
Ravager is current Barbarian meta. Blood Strength in the T5 is hilariously good sustain, will allow you to plow through kinda whatever. Use a Greataxe generally. Tree before T4 is a bit less impressive though. You mostly just pick this tree because Blood Strength is nuts whenever you are the one killing things; however it's useless if someone else is getting kills (it's an on-kill effect).
Occult Slayer is the dark horse of Barbarian. The tree looks sorta weird; but Arcane Encumbrance is really good for trash spellcasters, Driving Force is solid DPS booster early, and the T5 is very good all around. You get some passive sustain via Vampiric Bond, insane burst healing via One Spirit, a bunch of survivability stuff like lots of HP, and solid crit boosting that works with any weapon too (which is great for first-lifes where you generally want to use the newest name thing you've grabbed). I'd probably skip Seeker's Strike though, as you want to save your Bond for One Spirit. Should charge super fast with Strikethrough though :)

Generally speaking, I'd recommend Ravager if you're soloing, Occult Slayer if you're partying (especially with random vets), and Frenzied Berserker only if you're playing with buddies who are watching your HP bar to heal ya (or maybe if you grab Accelerated Metabolism and are running non-Reaper? This enhancement is newer than the last time I ran Barbarian, sorry).

Generally you want to spend ~2/3 of your AP into your primary tree and 1/3 into a secondary tree (if your main is Ravager/OS, secondary is always FB for the early goodies); Barbarian cores are really excellent almost universally, so getting a bunch more of them is great.

------

That work? I'll be happy to explain in more detail if you have questions etc.

[Garorg]

Any good builds that I could use to knock out a combined SDK life with alchemist? Several past lives already but not completionist yet. +8 tomes. Don't really want to spend an LR+1 heart on it so I'd need to keep the rogue level, so I'm assuming at least 2 levels of rogue? Since I am just looking to knock out the past life and move on, fast clearing in quests would be a bonus but not necessary. Thanks for any pointers!

[JJtheDark]

10th lifer here,+8 tomes for each stat. Looks fun to me and would like to try! Thanks In
Advance!

[SpartanKiller13]

Any good builds that I could use to knock out a combined SDK life with alchemist? Several past lives already but not completionist yet. +8 tomes. Don't really want to spend an LR+1 heart on it so I'd need to keep the rogue level, so I'm assuming at least 2 levels of rogue? Since I am just looking to knock out the past life and move on, fast clearing in quests would be a bonus but not necessary. Thanks for any pointers!

Well; Alchemist is receiving some major changes next patch. I'd recommend rushing, go for it before the nerfs hit :p a lot of current Alchemist meta will be shifting then, so it's hard to say too much about what'll be happening. 2nd preview for the patch isn't on Lama yet, so you should have something like a month which should be fine for where you're at.

Alchemist can get Evasion as a bonus feat, but there's no real reason not to get Rogue 2 and get a different feat. Pretty minor variances between 18/2 and 19/1. Can just take both Rogue levels up front, you'll have a billion skill points as an Int-max toon.

Abilities: max Int (plus level-ups), then Con, then whatever.

1) Maximize
3) Quicken
6) Accelerate
6A) Alch Studies: Pyrite
9) Empower
10A) Heighten
12) PL:Wizard
14A) Insightful Courage
15) SF: Conjuration
18) SWF
18A) Alch Studies: Pyrite II
21) Wellspring of Power
24) Master of Spellvials
26D) PSWF
27) Embolden
28D) PTWF
29D) PTHF
30) Intensify
30L) Scion of Fire

Skills: like all of them; get trapping, Spellcraft, Heal, a bit of Jump, Balance, UMD, whatever.

You start with Multivial and T5 Bombardier, so it's pretty much easy mode. Go Fire, run Efficient Maximize; grab Augmentation, Conjuration Focus, and Weakening Mixture from T5 and you're cake. The others can come later.

11 AP into Apothecary is really helpful; Core 3 is solid AoE healing. Grab Spell Points, the CLW admixture (it's basically free to use), and some healamp on the way up.

Leftover AP you can get more Apothecary (T4 Run for your Life is great for dailies, Soothing Poultices is pretty great for a little buffer in Reaper, etc), Feydark Illusionist is great for Reaper (Greater Color Spray is your best CC for Reapers), or just picking up Int etc is fine too.

Levels 15-20 you can just coast by throwing Multivial. Even without metamagic it's a beast, but Efficient Maximize makes that pretty cheap too. Spend a little time figuring out your stances, as spiking Pyrite with a debuff right as you go into a fight allows you to throw a metamagic'ed Multivial for half-price which is really nice.

Level 21-30 you can turn on EDF and Draconic and crush stuff. You'll be weaker than a straight Alchemist (largely because you only have one Multivial) but you also get more spell points so you can afford more metamagics on Multivial.

Accelerate flattens the curve of your vials, and makes them fly faster. If you're solo or partied with melees etc it's a waste of SP, but if your potion hits an enemy that's already dead your whole spell vanishes so Accelerate can really help to land your spells. Also critical for low hallways. Note that the right-click Metamagic feature is broken for Accelerate, it's on or off for all your spells. Also ofc your metas are free on SLA's so load up on them for those :)

You should be just fine to land Turn to Frog on low-save enemies all the way up (or like all enemies in Heroics), and it's really helpful for a lot of beefy mobs (note that spiking Verdanite gives a fat DC boost which helps a lot for this).

Stances aren't required to hit 20 and to run dailies to cap. You can just go Pyrite and stay there the whole way; that said, you'll be a bunch stronger if you swap. Typically I use Displacement to exit Pyrite, and then I'm looking to either spike Verdanite for a DC boost (and some nice Apothecary goodies) or back into Pyrite for half-off spells. Mostly stay out of Orchidium unless you're doing it deliberately (like for elemental resistances in certain quests).

Multivial demolishes everything below mid-skulls (takes work to demolish those). You'll also have Draconic SLA's to rotate through between fights.

Gear-wise, grab a Burnscar Sash from Ravenloft and just wear it to 30. Get a set bonus from RL or Sharn and wear that to 30. Get a Fire spellpower stick, an Int item, and like RL's DC stick or something (you want Conjuration & Transmutation).

ED-wise, run Draconic; twist Empyrean Magic (from DC), Conjuration Specialist (from Magister), and Meld into Darkness (from Shadowdancer).

[SpartanKiller13]

10th lifer here,+8 tomes for each stat. Looks fun to me and would like to try! Thanks In Advance!

The problem is, well, Razorclaw sorta doesn't do what it's supposed to do. The whole unarmed thing just plain sucks without Monk, and the whole Shift thing doesn't work with Rage (so Shifter Barbarian is already anti-synergy). If you have Racial AP there's some good stuff to pick, but if not it's a hard sell vs just more Barbarian stuff. Also there's cool Druid attacks, but they require handwraps which are frankly terrible without Monk (and half of Razorclaw uncenters you even if you burn LHoW's and try to go Monk).

So if you have racial AP you can get a bunch of nice stuff while doing your Barbarian thing, but if not there's a few more tradeoffs. Still, it's alright, it's just kinda worse than like Half-Orc for Barbarians... I've heard it's pretty decent with Kensei, and the single-target is supposedly excellent but that's really niche vs THF's overall dominance in the current meta.

Strimtom has a Youtube video (https://youtu.be/zPwq86HtPn0?t=4653) that includes a review for a Visage of Terror build which is the only Shifter Barbarian I've seen that's actually leveraging the racial benefits. Basically recharging Rage + spending Rages for stuff = win. It's a pretty unusual concept though, so give it a look and see what you think first.

Otherwise, basically just do a Barbarian build, mostly ignore Shifter, and call it a day. I would test Destructive Shifting, as the Destruction & Knockdown are supposed to work regardless of weapon - but they haven't updated the tooltip so I can't confirm that (and haven't rolled a test toon yet - I really need to do this sorry).

[SpartanKiller13]

Yessir! Most appreciated.

Not quite sure what you mean by "not-in-backpack"... Yes, I believe the account has warlock and no, I don't intend to pull this toon into epics. Not even reaper, at least very often.

The worst I intend the toon to face is having to go grab my main account's soul gem if things go pear-shaped. I figure invisibility ought to take care of that.

As I said earlier, I'm probably going to use a 3rd account once I have enough of my primary account characters through TR. I'm a filthy casual so I generally have to make time when real life doesn't intrude.

Darn you, real life! {/shake fist}

Glad to help!

A lot of multiboxers I've seen will have their main toon carry other toon's soulstones (in a backpack) to minimize time spent bringing them to the chest at the end (usually suicide with unclean Greensteel). Or just leave them at the quest entrance after throwing buffs. Either way, you don't get aura buffs (although Bard songs themselves are pretty great and have unlimited range, there's a lot of stuff tied to Bardic Ballad which is an aura near said Bard). Carrying soulstones to door of boss room can get you most of the best of both worlds though if you need a little extra help for a difficult fight though :) It's part of why I went for Bard 18, as that doubles the Ballad radius.

Warlock /4 gives access to Brilliance which is another +Con temp HP in an aura. Pretty small radius, but really helpful at times depending on how you use your alts. Matters a lot more in epics (same as Inspire Courage + Fighting Spirit) where A) your stats get much bigger and B) those temp HP double. 30 Con = 30 temp HP = meh, but 60 Con x2 = 120 temp HP = kinda nice. For Heroics only I probably wouldn't bother unless you're trying to optimize to the max :)

Hah I feel that! Darn real life, taking my gaming time away {also shakes fist}

[Garorg]

Well; Alchemist is receiving some major changes next patch. I'd recommend rushing, go for it before the nerfs hit :p a lot of current Alchemist meta will be shifting then, so it's hard to say too much about what'll be happening. 2nd preview for the patch isn't on Lama yet, so you should have something like a month which should be fine for where you're at.

Thanks! Something like this was exactly what I was looking for. I just wanted to rush it now when I could get advice from people that have experience pre-u48.4 could give. A month should be plenty of time to knock this out then its on to the next. The end of the (long) journey to completionist is getting closer. Appreciate the help!

[SpartanKiller13]

Thanks! Something like this was exactly what I was looking for. I just wanted to rush it now when I could get advice from people that have experience pre-u48.4 could give. A month should be plenty of time to knock this out then its on to the next. The end of the (long) journey to completionist is getting closer. Appreciate the help!

Note that my estimate of a month is pure conjecture; it could be anywhere, but worst case isn't too bad for your build (since you don't get Multivial SLA anyway) so you'll probably be mostly fine :)

Good luck!

[Garorg]

Well; Alchemist is receiving some major changes next patch. I'd recommend rushing, go for it before the nerfs hit :p a lot of current Alchemist meta will be shifting then, so it's hard to say too much about what'll be happening. 2nd preview for the patch isn't on Lama yet, so you should have something like a month which should be fine for where you're at.

Alchemist can get Evasion as a bonus feat, but there's no real reason not to get Rogue 2 and get a different feat. Pretty minor variances between 18/2 and 19/1. Can just take both Rogue levels up front, you'll have a billion skill points as an Int-max toon.

Abilities: max Int (plus level-ups), then Con, then whatever.

1) Maximize
3) Quicken
6) Accelerate
6A) Alch Studies: Pyrite
9) Empower
10A) Heighten
12) PL:Wizard
14A) Insightful Courage
15) SF: Conjuration
18) SWF
18A) Alch Studies: Pyrite II
21) Wellspring of Power
24) Master of Spellvials
26D) PSWF
27) Embolden
28D) PTWF
29D) PTHF
30) Intensify
30L) Scion of Fire



I was going to lay this out in the planner just to get it all straight in my head, but ran into a snag I think. With the first level required as rogue (Since I am a Shadar-Kai iconic), I can't take the maximize feat then can I? It looks like the only feat I might be able to swap in is SWF and then bump everything else down?

[SpartanKiller13]

I was going to lay this out in the planner just to get it all straight in my head, but ran into a snag I think. With the first level required as rogue (Since I am a Shadar-Kai iconic), I can't take the maximize feat then can I? It looks like the only feat I might be able to swap in is SWF and then bump everything else down?

You're entirely right, sorry. I use google sheets and just speed-built it based on my current Alch build, shuffling the Alch feats down lol.

Starting SWF and pushing the rest down is perfect!

[Garorg]

You're entirely right, sorry. I use google sheets and just speed-built it based on my current Alch build, shuffling the Alch feats down lol.

Starting SWF and pushing the rest down is perfect!

Thanks! I'm thinking I'll post the builder output when I finish so others can benefit if they want. I might end up with just one rogue level in the end but we'll see. I think you set it up for two but I can just take evasion as one of the alch feats.

[SpartanKiller13]

Thanks! I'm thinking I'll post the builder output when I finish so others can benefit if they want. I might end up with just one rogue level in the end but we'll see. I think you set it up for two but I can just take evasion as one of the alch feats.

My main thought process is Alch 19 gives you nearly nothing (given you'll be mid-20's CL it's like 3.5% DPS loss for spells that you're not at cap for, and you don't have relevant spellpen so that's not a factor) whereas a bonus Alch feat is probably Heighten = +1 DC's for difficult content. Again it's really minor :)

[Garorg]

My main thought process is Alch 19 gives you nearly nothing (given you'll be mid-20's CL it's like 3.5% DPS loss for spells that you're not at cap for, and you don't have relevant spellpen so that's not a factor) whereas a bonus Alch feat is probably Heighten = +1 DC's for difficult content. Again it's really minor :)

Here's a stab at it in the planner. Hopefully I didn't butcher it too badly... :p


Character name: Shadar Alchy
Classes: 18 Alchemist, 10 Epic, 2 Rogue
Race: Shadar-Kai· · · · · ·Alignment: Neutral

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · ·0% · · ·Displacement:· ·50%
Str:· · 10· · 8 · ·18 · · ·HP:· · · · 554 · · ·AC:· · 51
Dex:· · 10· · 8 · ·18 · · ·PRR: · · · ·39
Con:· · 18· · 8 · ·26 · · ·MRR: · · · ·27 · · ·+Healing Amp:· · 20
Int:· · 18· · 8 · ·38 · · ·Dodge: · ·2/25 · · ·-Healing Amp:· · 10
Wis:· · 10· · 8 · ·18 · · ·Fort:· · · ·5% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · ·0
Cha:· · ·6· · 8 · ·14 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 14
DR:
Immunities: Natural Poison, Magic Missiles, Blindness, Slippery Surfaces, Magic Missiles, Feather Fall

Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Rogue(1)· · · · ·Standard: Single Weapon Fighting
2 · · Alchemist(1)· · ·
3 · · Alchemist(2)· · ·Standard: Maximize Spell
4 · · Alchemist(3)· · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
5 · · Alchemist(4)· · ·Alchemist Bonus: Alchemical Studies: Pyrite
6 · · Alchemist(5)· · ·Standard: Quicken Spell
7 · · Alchemist(6)· · ·
8 · · Alchemist(7)· · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
9 · · Alchemist(8)· · ·Standard: Accelerate Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Alchemist Bonus: Heighten Spell
10· · Alchemist(9)· · ·
11· · Alchemist(10) · ·
12· · Alchemist(11) · ·Standard: Empower Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
13· · Alchemist(12) · ·Alchemist Bonus: Insightful Courage
14· · Rogue(2)· · · · ·
15· · Alchemist(13) · ·Standard: Past Life: Arcane Initiate
16· · Alchemist(14) · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
17· · Alchemist(15) · ·
18· · Alchemist(16) · ·Standard: Spell Focus: Conjuration
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Alchemist Bonus: Advanced Alchemical Studies: Pyrite
19· · Alchemist(17) · ·
20· · Alchemist(18) · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Wellspring of Power
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Master of Spellvials
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Embolden Spell
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Intensify Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of the Plane of Fire

Skills
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill Points· · ·48 ·9· 9 10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11 12 12 16 12 13 13 13 13 14
Skill Name· · · ·01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20· Total Buffed
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance · · · · · 4 ·1· · · · · ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·2· 2 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 37.0
Bluff · · · · · · 3 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 2 ·2· · 8.0 · 20.0
Concentration · · 2 · · 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· ·23.0 · 44.0
Diplomacy · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 12.0
Disable Device· · 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 · · 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 48.0
Haggle· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 12.0
Heal· · · · · · · 2 · · 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 2 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 37.0
Hide· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 14.0
Intimidate· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 12.0
Jump· · · · · · · 4 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 4.0 · 48.0
Listen· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 14.0
Move Silently · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 17.0
Open Lock · · · · 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 · · 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 37.0
Perform · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 12.0
Repair· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 25.0
Search· · · · · · 4 ·1· 1 · · 1 · · 1 · · 1 · · 1 ·1· 2 ·2· 2 ·1· 2 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 48.0
Spell Craft · · · 2 · · 1 ·2· 2 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 54.0
Spot· · · · · · · 4 ·1· · ·1· · ·1· · ·3· · ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 37.0
Swim· · · · · · · 4 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 4.0 · 18.0
Tumble· · · · · · 1 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1.0 · 15.0
Use Magic Device· 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 40.0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Available Points· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·1· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 2, Universal 1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shadar-Kai - Points spent: 2
1 Core ·(1) Grit
2 Tier1 (1) Student of Pain
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apothecary - Points spent: 25
1 Core ·(1) Determination
2 Tier1 (1) Curative Admixture: Cure or Inflict Light Wounds: Curative Admixture: Cure Light Wounds
3 Tier1 (1) Curative Admixture: Cure or Inflict Light Wounds: Curative Admixture: Cure Light Wounds
4 Tier1 (1) Curative Admixture: Cure or Inflict Light Wounds: Curative Admixture: Cure Light Wounds
5 Tier1 (1) Energy of the Scholar
6 Tier1 (1) Energy of the Scholar
7 Tier1 (1) Energy of the Scholar
8 Core ·(1) Alchemical Shield
9 Tier2 (1) Hale & Hearty
10 Tier2 (1) Hale & Hearty
11 Core ·(1) Curative Admixture: Cure Serious Wounds
12 Tier1 (1) Soothing Poultices
13 Tier1 (1) Soothing Poultices
14 Tier1 (1) Soothing Poultices
15 Tier2 (1) Hale & Hearty
16 Tier3 (1) Safety Goggles
17 Tier3 (1) Safety Goggles
18 Tier3 (1) Safety Goggles
19 Tier3 (2) Vital Ambition
20 Tier4 (2) Run for your life!
21 Tier4 (1) Insulated Boots
22 Tier4 (1) Insulated Boots
23 Tier4 (1) Insulated Boots
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bombardier - Points spent: 42
1 Core ·(1) Alchemical Resistance
2 Tier1 (1) Arcane Knowledge
3 Tier1 (2) Spell Critical: Elemental and Poison I
4 Tier1 (1) Arcane Knowledge
5 Tier2 (2) Spell Critical: Elemental and Poison II
6 Tier2 (2) Efficient Metamagics I: Efficient Maximize
7 Tier2 (2) Efficient Metamagics I: Efficient Maximize
8 Core ·(1) Arcane Oil
9 Tier3 (2) Efficient Metamagics II: Efficient Empower
10 Tier3 (2) Efficient Metamagics II: Efficient Empower
11 Core ·(1) Liquid Power I: Liquid Power: Fire
12 Tier2 (2) Efficient Metamagics I: Efficient Maximize
13 Tier3 (2) Efficient Metamagics II: Efficient Empower
14 Core ·(1) Liquid Power II: Liquid Power: Fire
15 Tier3 (2) Spell Critical: Elemental and Poison III
16 Tier3 (2) Intelligence I
17 Tier4 (2) Burning Ambition
18 Tier4 (2) Spell Critical: Elemental and Poison IV
19 Tier4 (2) Intelligence II
20 Core ·(1) Liquid Power III: Liquid Power: Fire
21 Tier5 (1) Elemental Obliteration: SLA: Fiery Obliteration
22 Tier5 (1) Elemental Obliteration: SLA: Fiery Obliteration
23 Tier5 (1) Elemental Obliteration: SLA: Fiery Obliteration
24 Tier5 (2) Augmentation
25 Tier5 (1) Inferno of Creation
26 Tier5 (1) Conjuration Focus
27 Tier5 (1) Weakening Mixture: Weakening Mixture: Fire
28 Tier1 (1) Arcane Knowledge
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feydark Illusionist - Points spent: 14
1 Core ·(1) Find Familiar: Pseudodragon
2 Tier1 (1) Study the Arcane
3 Tier1 (1) Study the Arcane
4 Tier1 (1) Study the Arcane
5 Tier1 (1) Feydark Explorer
6 Tier2 (2) Bend Light
7 Tier2 (2) You've Got My Back
8 Tier1 (1) Feydark Explorer
9 Core ·(2) Ability I: Intelligence
10 Core ·(1) Greater Color Spray
11 Tier1 (1) Feydark Explorer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Active Destiny Tree
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Draconic Incarnation - Points spent: 25
1 Core ·(0) Draconic Bloodline I
2 Core ·(0) Draconic Bloodline II
3 Core ·(0) Draconic Bloodline III
4 Core ·(0) Draconic Bloodline IV
5 Core ·(0) Draconic Bloodline V
6 Core ·(0) Draconic Fury
7 Tier1 (1) Energy Sheath: Fire
8 Tier1 (1) Energy Sheath: Fire
9 Tier1 (1) Energy Sheath: Fire
10 Tier1 (2) Ability I: +1 Intelligence
11 Tier2 (1) Go Out With A Bang: Go Out With a Bang: Fire
12 Tier2 (1) Go Out With A Bang: Go Out With a Bang: Fire
13 Tier2 (1) Go Out With A Bang: Go Out With a Bang: Fire
14 Tier3 (1) Dragon Heritage: Draconic Incarnation: Dragon Heritage: Red
15 Tier3 (1) Dragon Heritage: Draconic Incarnation: Dragon Heritage: Red
16 Tier3 (1) Dragon Heritage: Draconic Incarnation: Dragon Heritage: Red
17 Tier2 (1) Precise Casting: Conjuration / Evocation: Draconic Incarnation: Conjuration
18 Tier2 (1) Precise Casting: Conjuration / Evocation: Draconic Incarnation: Conjuration
19 Tier4 (1) Dragon Spell Knowledge
20 Tier4 (1) Dragon Spell Knowledge
21 Tier4 (1) Dragon Spell Knowledge
22 Tier4 (1) Energy Burst: Energy Burst: Fire
23 Tier4 (1) Energy Burst: Energy Burst: Fire
24 Tier4 (1) Energy Burst: Energy Burst: Fire
25 Tier5 (1) Dragon Breath
26 Tier6 (1) Energy Vortex: Energy Vortex: Fire
27 Tier2 (2) Ability II: +1 Intelligence
28 Tier4 (1) Draconic Spell Augmentation
29 Tier4 (1) Draconic Spell Augmentation
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Twists of fate - 26 of 33 Fate points spent.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Twist 1 - Tier 3: Divine Crusader: Empyrean Magic
Twist 2 - Tier 3: Shadowdancer: Meld Into Darkness
Twist 3 - Tier 2: Magister: Spell School Specialist: Spell School Specialist: Conjuration
Twist 4 - Tier 1: Primal Avatar: Rejuvenation Cocoon
Twist 5 - Tier 0: Twist slot empty

Spells· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · School· · · · ·DC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alchemist Spells
L1: Elemental Skin· · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 25
L1: Feathers Extract· · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 25
L1: Stiffen Skin· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 25
L1: Vial Smash: Fire· · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 36
L1: Vial of Flame · · · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 36
L2: Augment Armor · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 26
L2: Bottled Boost: Spell· · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 26
L2: Curative Admixture: Cure Moderate WoundsConjuration · · 37
L2: Glue Bomb · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 26
L2: Melt Armor· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 37
L3: Curative Admixture: Cure Serious Wounds Conjuration · · 38
L3: Displacement Draught· · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 27
L3: Invisibility Potion · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 27
L3: Melt Lock · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 27
L3: Molotov Cocktail· · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 38
L4: Bottled Boost: Sprint · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 28
L4: Cindersmoke · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 39
L4: Corrosive Dust· · · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 39
L4: Curative Admixture: Cure Critical WoundsConjuration · · 39
L4: Stoneskin Potion· · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 28
L5: Flesh to Gold, Mass · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 29
L5: Greater Evolution · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 29
L5: Greater Stoneskin · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 40
L5: Multivial of Flame· · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 40
L5: Turn to Frog· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 29
L6: Curative Admixture: Heal· · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 41
L6: Dust of Confusion · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 30
L6: Elemental Combination · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 41
L6: Goldskin Potion · · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 41
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[SpartanKiller13]

Here's a stab at it in the planner. Hopefully I didn't butcher it too badly... :p

Looks great! You'd do just fine with it as-is, but there's some minor things I'd personally change:


Apothecary - Points spent: 25
Tier3 (1-3) Safety Goggles
Tier3 (2) Vital Ambition
Tier4 (1-3) Insulated Boots

You won't be in Verdanite very often (mostly when buffing or between fights for Soothing Poultices AoE temp HP) so I don't think Vital Ambition is very strong. YMMV, but I'm mostly in Pyrite.

I'd definitely be getting +2 Intelligence from Apothecary, and I really like Panacea Poultice (in large part because it's super fast, 1 SP for stance swapping, cures a lot of stuff, and always works - it's not a thrown admixture). You certainly don't need to follow my build, just saying how I did it.


Feydark Illusionist - Points spent: 14
5 Tier1 (1) Feydark Explorer
8 Tier1 (1) Feydark Explorer
11 Tier1 (1) Feydark Explorer

You need 1 point to round out T1, but I'd definitely recommend +1 Int from T3 instead of the 2nd and 3rd ranks here.


Alchemist Spells
L1: Vial Smash: Fire
L1: Vial of Flame

I'd recommend Remove Disease and Fine Dust here; Remove Disease is just QoL (you can do pots and grab Gills Extract if you prefer) but Fine Dust is pretty great for tripping constructs etc. You basically don't need red spells to swap, as you'll usually want to be spiking Pyrite (and you can use Bombardier SLA if you need) so there's very little use for these spells.


L2: Bottled Boost: Spell

You'll pretty much be boosting Sprint always whenever you're boosting, so I'd recommend Remove Curse here. If you ever raid it's hugely valuable, and it's not bad even if you don't :)


L3: Curative Admixture: Cure Serious Wounds
L3: Invisibility Potion
L3: Molotov Cocktail

You want Greater Restorative Draught, as it's A) awesome and B) the only Restorative Alchs have that works on allies, for buggy reasons. Greater Liquid Courage is also pretty nice, and Flash Freeze can be helpful for Evasion mobs (it's a Fort save, and they lose their Dex bonus while CC'ed). Melt Lock and Displacement are great too, so I'd probably be ditching CSW, Molotov, and maybe Invisibility (I have a clicky if I ever need it).


L4: Cindersmoke
L4: Corrosive Dust
L4: Curative Admixture: Cure Critical Wounds
L4: Stoneskin Potion

Caustic Overload and Voltaic Burst are both pretty nice debuffs for bosses (same as Melt Armor) so I'd consider them. Cindersmoke is mostly only good in combination with Flashbang, which you're not running currently? You'll be running Goldskin so Stoneskin is pretty pointless later. I haven't used Corrosive Dust but it could definitely be alright for that niche.


L5: Greater Stoneskin

Same thing, you'll be using Goldskin later so I'd consider picking up something else at least by level 20 - I use Multivial of Sparks, exclusively for underwater quests lol.


L6: Curative Admixture: Heal
L6: Dust of Confusion
L6: Elemental Combination
L6: Goldskin Potion

These are what I run :) remember to use Elemental Combination to set up Bombardier's Vulnerability T5. Can also fit in an Imbue at level 6 if you want a way to change stances in-town.

You pick up a lot of Curative Admixtures and frankly I don't think you'll need that many. The Apothecary SLA's get free metamagic, so you can load them up and get fat heals super cheap. Personally I use those 3 SLA's and the Heal Admixture (loaded up with metas, it's my emergency button at like 75 spell points) and that's plenty for me. Still can grab some, but you don't need one at every level :)

Well done!

[Garorg]

Looks great! You'd do just fine with it as-is, but there's some minor things I'd personally change:

You won't be in Verdanite very often (mostly when buffing or between fights for Soothing Poultices AoE temp HP) so I don't think Vital Ambition is very strong. YMMV, but I'm mostly in Pyrite.

I'd definitely be getting +2 Intelligence from Apothecary, and I really like Panacea Poultice (in large part because it's super fast, 1 SP for stance swapping, cures a lot of stuff, and always works - it's not a thrown admixture). You certainly don't need to follow my build, just saying how I did it.



So when I adjust and get Panacea Poultice, I've dropped Safety Goggles and Insulated Boots and am at 22 points. What's a good place to relocate the 3 points I have left? I could just stick them back in Safety Goggles I guess or I was wondering if Life Poultice might be good? Or possibly even relocate those points to a different tree? Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it!

[SpartanKiller13]

So when I adjust and get Panacea Poultice, I've dropped Safety Goggles and Insulated Boots and am at 22 points. What's a good place to relocate the 3 points I have left? I could just stick them back in Safety Goggles I guess or I was wondering if Life Poultice might be good? Or possibly even relocate those points to a different tree? Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it!

+1 Int from Apo T4, then drop your SDK T1 for SDK Core 2 for another +1 Int? Hard to pass up Int :p

[Garorg]

Here's the updated build with your suggestions. I did vary a little:


Character name: Shadar Alchy V2
Classes: 18 Alchemist, 10 Epic, 2 Rogue
Race: Shadar-Kai· · · · · ·Alignment: Neutral

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · ·0% · · ·Displacement:· ·50%
Str:· · 10· · 8 · ·18 · · ·HP:· · · · 554 · · ·AC:· · 48
Dex:· · 10· · 8 · ·18 · · ·PRR: · · · ·39
Con:· · 18· · 8 · ·26 · · ·MRR: · · · ·21 · · ·+Healing Amp:· · 20
Int:· · 18· · 8 · ·41 · · ·Dodge: · ·2/25 · · ·-Healing Amp:· · 10
Wis:· · 10· · 8 · ·18 · · ·Fort:· · · ·5% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · ·0
Cha:· · ·6· · 8 · ·14 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 14
DR:
Immunities: Natural Poison, Magic Missiles, Magic Missiles, Feather Fall

Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Rogue(1)· · · · ·Standard: Single Weapon Fighting
2 · · Alchemist(1)· · ·
3 · · Alchemist(2)· · ·Standard: Maximize Spell
4 · · Alchemist(3)· · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
5 · · Alchemist(4)· · ·Alchemist Bonus: Alchemical Studies: Pyrite
6 · · Alchemist(5)· · ·Standard: Quicken Spell
7 · · Alchemist(6)· · ·
8 · · Alchemist(7)· · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
9 · · Alchemist(8)· · ·Standard: Accelerate Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Alchemist Bonus: Heighten Spell
10· · Alchemist(9)· · ·
11· · Alchemist(10) · ·
12· · Alchemist(11) · ·Standard: Empower Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
13· · Alchemist(12) · ·Alchemist Bonus: Insightful Courage
14· · Rogue(2)· · · · ·
15· · Alchemist(13) · ·Standard: Past Life: Arcane Initiate
16· · Alchemist(14) · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
17· · Alchemist(15) · ·
18· · Alchemist(16) · ·Standard: Spell Focus: Conjuration
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Alchemist Bonus: Advanced Alchemical Studies: Pyrite
19· · Alchemist(17) · ·
20· · Alchemist(18) · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Wellspring of Power
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Master of Spellvials
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Embolden Spell
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Intensify Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of the Plane of Fire

Skills
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill Points· · ·48 ·9· 9 10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11 12 12 16 12 13 13 13 13 14
Skill Name· · · ·01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20· Total Buffed
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance · · · · · 4 ·1· · · · · ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·2· 2 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 41.0
Bluff · · · · · · 3 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 2 ·3· · 9.0 · 25.0
Concentration · · 2 · · 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· ·23.0 · 46.0
Diplomacy · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 16.0
Disable Device· · 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 · · 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 53.0
Haggle· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 16.0
Heal· · · · · · · 2 · · 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 2 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 41.0
Hide· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 18.0
Intimidate· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 16.0
Jump· · · · · · · 4 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 4.0 · 52.0
Listen· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 18.0
Move Silently · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 19.0
Open Lock · · · · 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 · · 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 41.0
Perform · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 16.0
Repair· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 30.0
Search· · · · · · 4 ·1· 1 · · 1 · · 1 · · 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 2 ·2· 2 ·1· 2 ·1· 1 · · ·23.0 · 53.0
Spell Craft · · · 2 · · 1 ·2· 2 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 57.0
Spot· · · · · · · 4 ·1· · ·1· · ·1· · ·3· · ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·2· 1 ·2· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 41.0
Swim· · · · · · · 4 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 4.0 · 22.0
Tumble· · · · · · 1 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1.0 · 19.0
Use Magic Device· 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 43.0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Available Points· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 2, Universal 1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shadar-Kai - Points spent: 2
1 Core ·(1) Grit
2 Tier1 (1) Student of Pain
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apothecary - Points spent: 25
1 Core ·(1) Determination
2 Tier1 (1) Curative Admixture: Cure or Inflict Light Wounds: Curative Admixture: Cure Light Wounds
3 Tier1 (1) Curative Admixture: Cure or Inflict Light Wounds: Curative Admixture: Cure Light Wounds
4 Tier1 (1) Curative Admixture: Cure or Inflict Light Wounds: Curative Admixture: Cure Light Wounds
5 Tier1 (1) Energy of the Scholar
6 Tier1 (1) Energy of the Scholar
7 Tier1 (1) Energy of the Scholar
8 Core ·(1) Alchemical Shield
9 Tier2 (1) Hale & Hearty
10 Tier2 (1) Hale & Hearty
11 Core ·(1) Curative Admixture: Cure Serious Wounds
12 Tier1 (1) Soothing Poultices
13 Tier1 (1) Soothing Poultices
14 Tier1 (1) Soothing Poultices
15 Tier2 (1) Hale & Hearty
16 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Intelligence
17 Tier3 (1) Panacea Poultice
18 Tier3 (1) Panacea Poultice
19 Tier3 (1) Panacea Poultice
20 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Intelligence
21 Tier2 (2) Life Salve
22 Core ·(1) Spill the Bad Stuff
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bombardier - Points spent: 42
1 Core ·(1) Alchemical Resistance
2 Tier1 (1) Arcane Knowledge
3 Tier1 (2) Spell Critical: Elemental and Poison I
4 Tier1 (1) Arcane Knowledge
5 Tier2 (2) Spell Critical: Elemental and Poison II
6 Tier2 (2) Efficient Metamagics I: Efficient Maximize
7 Tier2 (2) Efficient Metamagics I: Efficient Maximize
8 Core ·(1) Arcane Oil
9 Tier3 (2) Efficient Metamagics II: Efficient Empower
10 Tier3 (2) Efficient Metamagics II: Efficient Empower
11 Core ·(1) Liquid Power I: Liquid Power: Fire
12 Tier2 (2) Efficient Metamagics I: Efficient Maximize
13 Tier3 (2) Efficient Metamagics II: Efficient Empower
14 Core ·(1) Liquid Power II: Liquid Power: Fire
15 Tier3 (2) Spell Critical: Elemental and Poison III
16 Tier3 (2) Intelligence I
17 Tier4 (2) Burning Ambition
18 Tier4 (2) Spell Critical: Elemental and Poison IV
19 Tier4 (2) Intelligence II
20 Core ·(1) Liquid Power III: Liquid Power: Fire
21 Tier5 (1) Elemental Obliteration: SLA: Fiery Obliteration
22 Tier5 (1) Elemental Obliteration: SLA: Fiery Obliteration
23 Tier5 (1) Elemental Obliteration: SLA: Fiery Obliteration
24 Tier5 (2) Augmentation
25 Tier5 (1) Inferno of Creation
26 Tier5 (1) Conjuration Focus
27 Tier5 (1) Weakening Mixture: Weakening Mixture: Fire
28 Tier1 (1) Arcane Knowledge
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feydark Illusionist - Points spent: 14
1 Core ·(1) Find Familiar: Pseudodragon
2 Tier1 (1) Study the Arcane
3 Tier1 (1) Study the Arcane
4 Tier1 (1) Study the Arcane
5 Tier1 (1) Feydark Explorer
6 Tier2 (2) Bend Light
7 Core ·(2) Ability I: Intelligence
8 Tier2 (2) You've Got My Back
9 Core ·(1) Greater Color Spray
10 Tier3 (2) Ability I: Intelligence
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Active Destiny Tree
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Draconic Incarnation - Points spent: 25
1 Core ·(0) Draconic Bloodline I
2 Core ·(0) Draconic Bloodline II
3 Core ·(0) Draconic Bloodline III
4 Core ·(0) Draconic Bloodline IV
5 Core ·(0) Draconic Bloodline V
6 Core ·(0) Draconic Fury
7 Tier1 (1) Energy Sheath: Fire
8 Tier1 (1) Energy Sheath: Fire
9 Tier1 (1) Energy Sheath: Fire
10 Tier1 (2) Ability I: +1 Intelligence
11 Tier2 (1) Go Out With A Bang: Go Out With a Bang: Fire
12 Tier2 (1) Go Out With A Bang: Go Out With a Bang: Fire
13 Tier2 (1) Go Out With A Bang: Go Out With a Bang: Fire
14 Tier3 (1) Dragon Heritage: Draconic Incarnation: Dragon Heritage: Red
15 Tier3 (1) Dragon Heritage: Draconic Incarnation: Dragon Heritage: Red
16 Tier3 (1) Dragon Heritage: Draconic Incarnation: Dragon Heritage: Red
17 Tier2 (1) Precise Casting: Conjuration / Evocation: Draconic Incarnation: Conjuration
18 Tier2 (1) Precise Casting: Conjuration / Evocation: Draconic Incarnation: Conjuration
19 Tier4 (1) Dragon Spell Knowledge
20 Tier4 (1) Dragon Spell Knowledge
21 Tier4 (1) Dragon Spell Knowledge
22 Tier4 (1) Energy Burst: Energy Burst: Fire
23 Tier4 (1) Energy Burst: Energy Burst: Fire
24 Tier4 (1) Energy Burst: Energy Burst: Fire
25 Tier5 (1) Dragon Breath
26 Tier6 (1) Energy Vortex: Energy Vortex: Fire
27 Tier2 (2) Ability II: +1 Intelligence
28 Tier4 (1) Draconic Spell Augmentation
29 Tier4 (1) Draconic Spell Augmentation
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Twists of fate - 26 of 33 Fate points spent.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Twist 1 - Tier 3: Divine Crusader: Empyrean Magic
Twist 2 - Tier 3: Shadowdancer: Meld Into Darkness
Twist 3 - Tier 2: Magister: Spell School Specialist: Spell School Specialist: Conjuration
Twist 4 - Tier 1: Primal Avatar: Rejuvenation Cocoon
Twist 5 - Tier 0: Twist slot empty

Spells· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · School· · · · ·DC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alchemist Spells
L1: Elemental Skin· · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 26
L1: Feathers Extract· · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 26
L1: Fine Dust · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 26
L1: Stiffen Skin· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 26
L1: Vial of Flame · · · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 37
L2: Augment Armor · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 27
L2: Curative Admixture: Cure Moderate WoundsConjuration · · 38
L2: Glue Bomb · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 27
L2: Melt Armor· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 38
L2: Salt Crystals · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 27
L3: Displacement Draught· · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 28
L3: Flash Freeze· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 28
L3: Greater Liquid Courage· · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 28
L3: Greater Restorative Draught · · · · · · Conjuration · · 39
L3: Invisibility Potion · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 28
L4: Bottled Boost: Sprint · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 29
L4: Caustic Overload· · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 40
L4: Corrosive Dust· · · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 40
L4: Curative Admixture: Cure Critical WoundsConjuration · · 40
L4: Voltaic Burst · · · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 40
L5: Flesh to Gold, Mass · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 30
L5: Greater Evolution · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 30
L5: Multivial of Flame· · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 41
L5: Multivial of Sparks · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 41
L5: Turn to Frog· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 30
L6: Curative Admixture: Heal· · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 42
L6: Dust of Confusion · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 31
L6: Elemental Combination · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 42
L6: Goldskin Potion · · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 42
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Looks great! You'd do just fine with it as-is, but there's some minor things I'd personally change:

I'd recommend Remove Disease and Fine Dust here; Remove Disease is just QoL (you can do pots and grab Gills Extract if you prefer) but Fine Dust is pretty great for tripping constructs etc. You basically don't need red spells to swap, as you'll usually want to be spiking Pyrite (and you can use Bombardier SLA if you need) so there's very little use for these spells.

You'll pretty much be boosting Sprint always whenever you're boosting, so I'd recommend Remove Curse here. If you ever raid it's hugely valuable, and it's not bad even if you don't :)

You want Greater Restorative Draught, as it's A) awesome and B) the only Restorative Alchs have that works on allies, for buggy reasons. Greater Liquid Courage is also pretty nice, and Flash Freeze can be helpful for Evasion mobs (it's a Fort save, and they lose their Dex bonus while CC'ed). Melt Lock and Displacement are great too, so I'd probably be ditching CSW, Molotov, and maybe Invisibility (I have a clicky if I ever need it).

Caustic Overload and Voltaic Burst are both pretty nice debuffs for bosses (same as Melt Armor) so I'd consider them. Cindersmoke is mostly only good in combination with Flashbang, which you're not running currently? You'll be running Goldskin so Stoneskin is pretty pointless later. I haven't used Corrosive Dust but it could definitely be alright for that niche.

Same thing, you'll be using Goldskin later so I'd consider picking up something else at least by level 20 - I use Multivial of Sparks, exclusively for underwater quests lol.

These are what I run :) remember to use Elemental Combination to set up Bombardier's Vulnerability T5. Can also fit in an Imbue at level 6 if you want a way to change stances in-town.

You pick up a lot of Curative Admixtures and frankly I don't think you'll need that many. The Apothecary SLA's get free metamagic, so you can load them up and get fat heals super cheap. Personally I use those 3 SLA's and the Heal Admixture (loaded up with metas, it's my emergency button at like 75 spell points) and that's plenty for me. Still can grab some, but you don't need one at every level :)

Well done!

I always carry the guild pots for remove curse, remove blindness, remove disease and lesser restoration so I have those covered for myself. Won't be raiding in this build so I don't have to worry about removes for others. I did pick up Fine Dust though because the CC is nice. I kept Flame Vial for a low SP pull/apply vulnerability.

For L2 I picked up Salt Crystals for another CC. Wasn't sure if there was something possibly better?

L3 I grabbed Flash Freeze, Greater Liquid Courage and Greater Restoration. Since I can pick locks with Rogue Skills I kept Invis for questing.

L4 Grabbed Caustic Overload and Voltaic burst. Kept CCW just to have another heal for reapers. Feel fairly squishy still. Not sure what to do in place of Corrosive Dust. Maybe Smoke Bomb?

L5 Picked up Multivial of Sparks. Thanks for reminding me about the underwater stuff. I should have remembered from how much pain they caused me when I did my Sorc life... :-P

Thanks again for all the assistance and advice!

[SpartanKiller13]

Here's the updated build with your suggestions. I did vary a little:

*snip*

I always carry the guild pots for remove curse, remove blindness, remove disease and lesser restoration so I have those covered for myself. Won't be raiding in this build so I don't have to worry about removes for others. I did pick up Fine Dust though because the CC is nice. I kept Flame Vial for a low SP pull/apply vulnerability.

For L2 I picked up Salt Crystals for another CC. Wasn't sure if there was something possibly better?

L3 I grabbed Flash Freeze, Greater Liquid Courage and Greater Restoration. Since I can pick locks with Rogue Skills I kept Invis for questing.

L4 Grabbed Caustic Overload and Voltaic burst. Kept CCW just to have another heal for reapers. Feel fairly squishy still. Not sure what to do in place of Corrosive Dust. Maybe Smoke Bomb?

L5 Picked up Multivial of Sparks. Thanks for reminding me about the underwater stuff. I should have remembered from how much pain they caused me when I did my Sorc life... :-P

Thanks again for all the assistance and advice!

I hope so! I'm here to get you a baseline and some suggestions, but with a game as customizable as DDO it's a shame to not personalize a bit.

Alright! I like the spells b/c I'm lazy, and also for party usage. Carrying pots gets you some free slots though :)

Salt Crystals is basically just a worse version of Flash Freeze; it's a Daze, so it breaks on-damage which isn't as valuable as a Freeze.

Ah yeah, right! Melt Lock is just habit, ditching it for OL is a great way to go.

More heals better! Not taking damage = best! Mostly I use GCS on Reapers which works pretty well, and then Meld as a panic button for whenever dangerous enemies get to melee range. Doesn't hurt to have more healing available though :) I just ran out of main hotbar space lol.

Some people swear by Smoke Bomb, but I haven't found a lot of value in it. Still, try it out! Swapping stuff is free :)

Level 29 Alch budget gearing usually includes Legendary Crown of Snow from Lost Locket which is why I remembered MV of Sparks. Farming that was a pain lol.

Good luck!

[Merfyn]

Warlock /4 gives access to Brilliance which is another +Con temp HP in an aura. Pretty small radius, but really helpful at times depending on how you use your alts. Matters a lot more in epics (same as Inspire Courage + Fighting Spirit) where A) your stats get much bigger and B) those temp HP double. 30 Con = 30 temp HP = meh, but 60 Con x2 = 120 temp HP = kinda nice. For Heroics only I probably wouldn't bother unless you're trying to optimize to the max :)
Hmm, not sure it's worth it, at least this time around.

Incidentally, the support bard build I was looking at is *NOT* "1st-life Support Bard (trapper/warchanter/spellsinger)" (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/509689-1st-life-Support-Bard-(trapper-warchanter-spellsinger)), though that's close enough for Government work. I wish I could find the original.

I'm also wondering, what with improvements to spellsinger, whether it's worth using the Shout & Horn of Thunder in later levels.

Hah I feel that! Darn real life, taking my gaming time away {also shakes fist}I've been unable to do much more than grab daily dice in over a week. Ugh.

[SpartanKiller13]

Hmm, not sure it's worth it, at least this time around.

Incidentally, the support bard build I was looking at is *NOT* "1st-life Support Bard (trapper/warchanter/spellsinger)" (url=https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/509689-1st-life-Support-Bard-(trapper-warchanter-spellsinger)), though that's close enough for Government work. I wish I could find the original.

I'm also wondering, what with improvements to spellsinger, whether it's worth using the Shout & Horn of Thunder in later levels.
I've been unable to do much more than grab daily dice in over a week. Ugh.

Most of the Warchanter buffs are fairly short-ranged around the Bard. If you're going to have them in range, go for it! But if not, it's less impactful.

Bard spellcasting damage got a lot better in U48.4; if you're planning on questing with your Bard I'd definitely recommend it. If you're leaving them at the quest entrance (or in a backpack as a soulstone) it's mostly pointless to grab damage spells, no? That said, if you want to damage-cast as a Bard there's a recent video/build guide from Strimtom (link here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522398-Spellsinger-will-be-good-for-hardcore-it-s-a-heroic-monster?p=6410280#post6410280)) that's pretty helpful. Could /2 Rogue that pretty reasonably.

[Merfyn]

Most of the Warchanter buffs are fairly short-ranged around the Bard. If you're going to have them in range, go for it! But if not, it's less impactful.

Bard spellcasting damage got a lot better in U48.4; if you're planning on questing with your Bard I'd definitely recommend it. If you're leaving them at the quest entrance (or in a backpack as a soulstone) it's mostly pointless to grab damage spells, no? That said, if you want to damage-cast as a Bard there's a recent video/build guide from Strimtom (link here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522398-Spellsinger-will-be-good-for-hardcore-it-s-a-heroic-monster?p=6410280#post6410280)) that's pretty helpful. Could /2 Rogue that pretty reasonably.
Strimtom's video & a couple of discussions were exactly what I was thinking of.

I've tended to use the dual box as extra fire support, including dragging a henchman healer... considering that a pack rat is my spirit animal, not only do I use the 2nd toon to open locks & provide buffs but it also yields double the collectables and chest contents.

If it can supplement my main with firepower it's all for the better.

[bluejay42]

Looking for Scoundrel PLs. Any ideas how to make it work with Inquisitive? Should I multi-class? Any suggestions on useful stopping points with Bard?

[Discpsycho]

Looking for Scoundrel PLs. Any ideas how to make it work with Inquisitive? Should I multi-class? Any suggestions on useful stopping points with Bard?

Any particular HPL?

I haven't tried it, but on paper Bard doesn't directly benefit Inquisitive much. You could pick up Sustaining Song, or 10% doubleshot from Swash, but that's about it. Personally, I'd go with a tried-and-true FVS or Rogue 17 /2 Arti/1 Bard. Could also swap 2 Arti for 1 Barbarian, trading a smidgen of damage for more runspeed

[bluejay42]

Any particular HPL?

I haven't tried it, but on paper Bard doesn't directly benefit Inquisitive much. You could pick up Sustaining Song, or 10% doubleshot from Swash, but that's about it. Personally, I'd go with a tried-and-true FVS or Rogue 17 /2 Arti/1 Bard. Could also swap 2 Arti for 1 Barbarian, trading a smidgen of damage for more runspeed

The +10% doubleshot looks interesting, thank you very much!

[SpartanKiller13]

Looking for Scoundrel PLs. Any ideas how to make it work with Inquisitive? Should I multi-class? Any suggestions on useful stopping points with Bard?

Scoundrel so 15-30 build, right? Do you want to sit at cap and farm RXP/raids/etc or are you planning on immediate ITR? Do you want Bard PL as well?

Inquisitive is a solid tree by itself; adding Bard buffs is pretty great too.

I'd definitely consider multiclassing, since you're taking Inquisitive capstone there's no point in staying pure for most classes.

Bard breakpoints:

Bard 9 - Displace + Haste + Good Hope + Ballad:Greatness
Bard 12 - FoM included in songs, Fighting Spirit (Cha temps w/Song)
Bard 15 - +4 saves & Dodge w/song
Bard 16 - Otto's Irresistible Panic Button
Bard 18 - Warchanter C5 access

I'd recommend 12 Bard, but everything past that is cake. Warchanter C5 is kinda nice, but definitely not required - and very AP-intensive; you can scroll Tenser's as needed.

More Bard levels also incentivizes you to grab Fast Movement from Swashbuckler (1% per Bard level) which is also pretty nice.

IMO you really want Warchanter C4 for epics, as it's a lot of temp HP constantly across your whole party. Still, with Inquisitive capstone + T5 already going you can't afford Spellsinger T4 (Sustaining Song) which is the other solid option - so I'd probably just go Swash/Feydark instead.

Something like:

41 AP Inquisitive (T5, Capstone)
23 Warchanter (C4, 4% Doubleshot, Ballad boosts)
13 Swashbuckler (C2, 10% Doubleshot, +3-6 damage, Cha-to-Damage, Fast Movement, Deflect Arrows)
3 Feydark (Cha-to-Hit)

If you have a Universal AP you can get 2% more DS from Warchanter, and if 2 UAP get Uncanny Dodge from Swashbuckler.

Of course if you're multiclassing you could ditch Warchanter and throw into that tree :) You're pretty stuck using Light Crossbows, but I think that's worth it vs ditching a lot of AP for Feydark's Cha-to-Damage.


Any particular HPL?

I haven't tried it, but on paper Bard doesn't directly benefit Inquisitive much. You could pick up Sustaining Song, or 10% doubleshot from Swash, but that's about it. Personally, I'd go with a tried-and-true FVS or Rogue 17 /2 Arti/1 Bard. Could also swap 2 Arti for 1 Barbarian, trading a smidgen of damage for more runspeed

Bard has some nice AoE buffs, and a bunch of +damage stuff which is really good for rapid-fire builds like Inquisitive. Bardic Inspiration, Warchanter C2/3, Flicker, Good Hope, etc - and those are all party buffs so you can get a bit more value from them.

You're right though, it's less DPS than a Rogue variant - so it depends what HPL you're after and the goals of the build :)

[Marshal_Lannes]

I have a caster character that I want to finish off completionist on and I need to pick up fighter, barbarian, and bard lives. I haven't played a swashbuckler in years so I'm a bit shaky on how they are built now, especially with changes to SWF. I'd like to essentially use the same philosophy (SWF swash with Forgotten axe) for all three lives so the gear is interchangeable. Going through heroics on R1/R3. I'll be using the Forgotten Axe/Barovian/Macabre handaxe all ML 10.

I know I'll need the 3 bard levels for fighter and barbarian lives. Does it make sense to fit in 2 rogue levels for evasion in light armor? Or would going 11/9 splits to get to 9 bard be preferable? Or Fighter 14/4 Bard/2 Barb for speed. Barb 14/4 Bard/2 fighter for feats. Bard 14/4 fighter/2 rogue feats and trapping. This is sort of what I'm storyboarding, could use some help in the fine-tuning.

[SpartanKiller13]

I have a caster character that I want to finish off completionist on and I need to pick up fighter, barbarian, and bard lives. I haven't played a swashbuckler in years so I'm a bit shaky on how they are built now, especially with changes to SWF. I'd like to essentially use the same philosophy (SWF swash with Forgotten axe) for all three lives so the gear is interchangeable. Going through heroics on R1/R3. I'll be using the Forgotten Axe/Barovian/Macabre handaxe all ML 10.

I know I'll need the 3 bard levels for fighter and barbarian lives. Does it make sense to fit in 2 rogue levels for evasion in light armor? Or would going 11/9 splits to get to 9 bard be preferable? Or Fighter 14/4 Bard/2 Barb for speed. Barb 14/4 Bard/2 fighter for feats. Bard 14/4 fighter/2 rogue feats and trapping. This is sort of what I'm storyboarding, could use some help in the fine-tuning.

Weirdly enough for a handaxe Swashbuckler build you really want to go T5 Frenzied Berserker; SB gives +2 range (doubled with ICrit), but no multiplier. FB T5 gives +2 multiplier, so you end up with a sick crit profile:


20/x3 base
18-20/x3 SB
15-20/x3 ICrit (+1 range, +2 from SB)
15-20/x5 Focused Wrath

Forgotten Axe has an additional +1 range, so it'll be 14-20/x5 crits which is just disgusting :D

If you don't want to T5 in Frenzied Berserker, you can use Kensei Core 3 for +1 multiplier to open your T5 up (like for SB) or Occult Slayer T5 for tankiness.

------

On level splits:

End of the day all you need for solid DPS is Bard 3 and either Barbarian 5 or Fighter 6.

Rogue 2 for Evasion is great, but it'll be hard to get enough Reflex saves past earlygame. You could go Int-based with Harper and Insightful Reflexes, but otherwise your Evasion won't be as helpful in the newer more difficult content where it matters more. YMMV, if you have super-optimized everything it might be easy for you, but it's an important consideration. Int-based is very AP intensive and doesn't have synergy with your build otherwise.

Important breakpoints:
Bard 7: Displacement + Haste or Good Hope - very good.
Bard 9: Inspire Greatness - free temp HP aura very nice.
Barbarian 6: Barbarian cores are shiny in general.
Barbarian 8: Improved Uncanny Dodge - this is an amazing defensive clicky that's usable very often.

Fighter just gives Feats, which are nice but not super important; mostly I'd be grabbing Spring Attack and some extra damage stuff. Also worth considering Cleric 6 on Cha-max builds (free Magical Training, Displacement SLA, Divine Might).

Barbarian and Bard have obvious easy routes to get a PL, and for Fighter you can go like 8/7/5 Fighter/Bard/Barbarian or whatever else is easy.

-----

You need to decide what stat to focus on:

Str - easiest, and you have lots of easy +Str bonuses - Rage lots, harder to keep buffs going = take Extend early
Cha - low-Rage route (easier to keep Displacement up and self-heal), access to Greater Color Spray which is easy to no-fail during Heroics
Int - with Rogue, you can get solid Evasion; also KtA is pretty great.

------

Notes:

Make sure you skill Perform and Balance - otherwise you can't use Bard or SWF stuff respectively.
Extend is required for Raging styles, and still pretty good for low-Rage styles; keeping Displacement up longer is great.
Feydark Illusionist w/Greater Color Spray is insanely good for Cha-max builds; give yourself free Helpless damage for most of Heroic DDO.
Frozen Fury from Warchanter is also insane for Cha-max builds, especially with a Cleric dip for Divine Might.
Soothing Song T4 in Spellsinger is great for party usage, but pretty terrible for self-heals past Elite. It's also pretty expensive AP-wise, so YMMV.
Higher levels of Bard aren't that impressive generally; make sure there's a goal if you're taking these.

-----

That's my first thoughts, back to you :p

[Marshal_Lannes]

Gonna go STR to keep it easy. I'm thinking of going barbarian first, then fighter than bard (cause I'll likely take bard up to 30 since I haven't played an epic bard in years and it looks fun plus I'll have optimized this fighting style by then). Point taken on evasion and saves.

So do I even need fighter levels for barbarian or just go 17 barb/3 bard? Or 15 barb/3 bard/2 rogue. Or 13 barb/7 bard? Maybe leaning 13 barb/7 bard which seems to give best of both worlds from classes? One thing to consider - that hold 18 till cap you don't "get" your last two levels in split so hard to even make use of the Bard 9 for displacement except on the bard life.

Or in the fighter life start out mainly as a bard then swoop in for the fighter levels at the end? Or possibly try out the frozen fury route with this going Fighter/Bard/Cleric. Actually, that sounds fun.

Seems like I'm drifting away from the rogue levels.

[SpartanKiller13]

Gonna go STR to keep it easy. I'm thinking of going barbarian first, then fighter than bard (cause I'll likely take bard up to 30 since I haven't played an epic bard in years and it looks fun plus I'll have optimized this fighting style by then). Point taken on evasion and saves.

So do I even need fighter levels for barbarian or just go 17 barb/3 bard? Or 15 barb/3 bard/2 rogue. Or 13 barb/7 bard? Maybe leaning 13 barb/7 bard which seems to give best of both worlds from classes? One thing to consider - that hold 18 till cap you don't "get" your last two levels in split so hard to even make use of the Bard 9 for displacement except on the bard life.

Or in the fighter life start out mainly as a bard then swoop in for the fighter levels at the end? Or possibly try out the frozen fury route with this going Fighter/Bard/Cleric. Actually, that sounds fun.

Seems like I'm drifting away from the rogue levels.

Bard gets Displacement at level 7 :)

Ah yeah it's definitely a failing of mine to only picture complete builds lol. Doesn't help that I've done a bunch of Iconics recently so you can ignore most leveling awkwardness...

The differences between Barbarian 11 and Barbarian 17 are functionally +2 Str/Con & +2% Damage Reduction, which doesn't seem too impactful? I'd probably err more towards the side of Bard levels for buff durations etc. Maybe Bard 3 > Barb 6 > Bard 7 > Barb 11? Or just THF Barb until level 6 or so when you get ISWF? Either way you'd get Greater Rage for the 18-20 grind, as well as earlier Displacement and Barb T5 at 12.

Fighter levels basically only get you bonus feats, so that depends on how much you prioritize Spring Attack and how many spellcasting feats you want. SWF x3, ICrit, Precision, and Extend are the mandatory feats IMO. Still, that's all your feats until level 15 (12 if Human) so you don't have a lot of feat flexibility without Fighter levels.

Note that Frozen Fury stun duration equals your Bard level, so don't skimp too much there. Frozen Fury is also Cha-based so you're basically stuck with Feydark Illusionist, but that also gives you insane Will saves (via Force of Personality) and amazing Divine Might synergy - as well as easy GCS usage for Heroics/low Epics. 8/6/6 Fighter/Cleric/Bard seems solid for a Fighter PL though, and you have full T5 flexibility there (Kensei, Swashbuckler, or Warchanter would be what I'd try).

I'm currently running a THF Warchanter (12/7/1 Bard/Cleric/Ranger) to get Bard + Scourge lives, and I'm really enjoying Frozen Fury + Strikethrough w/Silvanus mauls. I'm really enjoying freezing 2-3 monsters per Frozen Fury, but that definitely comes at a number of costs :)

[Marshal_Lannes]

The differences between Barbarian 11 and Barbarian 17 are functionally +2 Str/Con & +2% Damage Reduction, which doesn't seem too impactful? I'd probably err more towards the side of Bard levels for buff durations etc. Maybe Bard 3 > Barb 6 > Bard 7 > Barb 11? Or just THF Barb until level 6 or so when you get ISWF? Either way you'd get Greater Rage for the 18-20 grind, as well as earlier Displacement and Barb T5 at 12.

Fighter levels basically only get you bonus feats, so that depends on how much you prioritize Spring Attack and how many spellcasting feats you want. SWF x3, ICrit, Precision, and Extend are the mandatory feats IMO. Still, that's all your feats until level 15 (12 if Human) so you don't have a lot of feat flexibility without Fighter levels.


It's coming together. Yes, I'm thinking Barbarian 1-6 THF. Bard 7-13, switch to SWF at 10. Barb 14-18.

Feat 1-SWF 3-Precision 6-ISWF 9-ICrit slash 12-Extend 15-GSWF 18 -whatever
Skill - pick up perform and balance with Bard levels (have 4 before I Forgotten Ax). Need 13 DEX by 3 for Precision.
APs - Frenzy T5 for crit profile. Get Blood tribute? Rest in Swash.
Race - Aasimar? I have 4 racial points on this character.

[SpartanKiller13]

It's coming together. Yes, I'm thinking Barbarian 1-6 THF. Bard 7-13, switch to SWF at 10. Barb 14-18.

Feat 1-SWF 3-Precision 6-ISWF 9-ICrit slash 12-Extend 15-GSWF 18 -whatever
Skill - pick up perform and balance with Bard levels (have 4 before I Forgotten Ax). Need 13 DEX by 3 for Precision.
APs - Frenzy T5 for crit profile. Get Blood tribute? Rest in Swash.
Race - Aasimar? I have 4 racial points on this character.

Looks good :)


I'd probably take Quicken or Dodge at 18. Starting Dex 10 should qualify you for Precision at 3 if you have a 3+ Dex tome.
Max out Jump > Intimidate usually afterwards; Jump is QoL on melee, Intimidate lets you fight mobs that are chasing your buddies.
I'd definitely get Blood Tribute, it's hilariously strong early on. I'd also max the Cracking Attack line for +2[W] and a nice Fort debuff. Might also be worth grabbing Supreme Cleave for trash-clearing, but YMMV because handaxes don't have much reach.
Half-Orc might be the best DPS race? 7 AP gets you Orcish Rage (one of the best Heroic Action Boosts) and you get +Str and +H/D on the way. Aasimar is good if you have a bit of Wis though :)

[Wolfen719]

So, I'm not sure if anyone will want to try and fulfill my request...especially seeing the extant of the request, but maybe there are people out there who love making builds.

So...I've been back playing DDO for nearly 6 months now, after having been gone from the game for over 8 years. When I left I had a character I had started down the road to Completionist...barely. He was on his 3rd life. I come back to the game and now not only is there the "regular" completionist (whether you do just 1 or triple) but there is also racial completionist.

Well, my request is for someone to create 1 build for each and every class. That would be 15 builds. For me, these would be builds to solo content, preferably with disable device and pick locks (but not absolutely necessary). I'm sure there are already builds out there that would work perfectly for this...and probably in each class. But I've looked at the "build repository" and other places and I may find a build here or there that seems to work, but how about someone organizing a list of 15 builds (1 for each class) for people to do completionist?

For me, they would be 36 point builds, and I have +7 tomes for all stats.

Creating builds for racial completionist I don't think would be necessary...maybe just select one of the better class builds and just swap out the race, maybe change which class because some races may not be good with certain classes. But I figure 2-3 good class builds can be used just swapping out race to complete racial completionist!

Completionist isn't what it used to be? That's fine, that doesn't make me want to do it any less. Regardless of the merits of completionist!

Fulfilling this request could be as easy as posting 15 links to 15 already posted builds

It's not nearly as easy for someone like me that doesn't know all the minutia of the stats and abilities and stuff and how they all work together to know which build would be best for a solo lifestyle. Currently I tend to solo my way through content on elite..though I try to do R1 early on and as far as I can go....but I don't know if it's just that I don't know how to play my class (a possibility..but honestly I'm fairly competent) or if it's the build I use...but I try to follow solo leveling guides that say "do all the quests on R1" and I just get slaughtered in R1...especially by the reapers. So I do most of the content on elite (and there are a few quests I can only solo on hard).

If it helps at all, or if it makes a difference it the builds you create...for me these are the classes I've completed (once each so far);
Fighter
Paladin
Monk
Rogue
Ranger

and I'm currently on my Barbarian life and probably going to finish this one soon. Next lives, in the order I have planned are;

Bard
Favored Soul
Warlock
Wizard
Sorcerer
Artificer
Cleric
Druid
Alchemist

[SpartanKiller13]

Well, my request is for someone to create 1 build for each and every class. That would be 15 builds. For me, these would be builds to solo content, preferably with disable device and pick locks (but not absolutely necessary). I'm sure there are already builds out there that would work perfectly for this...and probably in each class. But I've looked at the "build repository" and other places and I may find a build here or there that seems to work, but how about someone organizing a list of 15 builds (1 for each class) for people to do completionist?

Fulfilling this request could be as easy as posting 15 links to 15 already posted builds

Good luck lmao, that's a lotta ask. Maybe unbongwah has enough in his repository, but I'm not that organized personally :p

Also still a few details to be provided; are you looking for R1 solo builds for all classes, or do you run Hard? Are you willing to farm out gear? Can all the builds be the same build? Do you zerg? What PL's/resources do you have available?

The easiest answers for you are the boring ones lol. Some 8-9/x/x class mix so you can just get whatever PL you want by changing the first class, or just running using Universal + Racial tree like a Inquisitive/Falconry Wis-max build? Or Inquisitive/Harper Int-max for trapping? Or Inquisitive/Feydark Cha-max for CC? Could go VKF for variety, although melee < ranged for survivability in Heroics.

Like a X/8/2 X/Favored Soul/Rogue using Inquisitive + Feydark/Falconry/Harper/Feydark (Feydark for solo carry, Falconry if you party/bring consistent CC, Harper if you are bad at trapping) maxing Cha/Wis/Int respectively. Feydark is probably easiest, Falconry is probably strongest with investment, Harper just gives great Evasion & trap skills.

I went with FvS because it gives native Wis or Cha to-hit-and-damage past level 2 (and you'll use XP rocks to skip 1) plus trances for both (use KtA for Int lives), +80 HP at level 7, Soundburst for Wis lives (use Greater Color Spray for Cha lives), and enough SP to spam your CC/heals as needed. There's definitely plenty of other options, but it's an easy base.

+7 tomes make feat pre-requisites easy (start like 14 Dex, then max DPS stat then go into Int & Con), and you're just Heroic so no need for Combat Archery.

And then just get a gearset or three (probably ML5 Feywild > ML8-10 RL + SL > ML15 Sharn) and a weapon or three (probs ML2 randomgen > Ratcatcher), and go ham. Make sure your gearset includes the usual ranged stuff, some DC stuff (Illusion Focus for Feydark, Evocation Focus & Assassinate for Falconry), and some swap items for trapping.

Enhancements - just go majority into Inquisitive, and later on go into your secondary tree; for Harper grab Int-to-Hit-and-Damage & KtA (do this early), for Feydark grab GCS and You've Got My Back, for Falconry grab Sprints, HP, and No Mercy (likely later). Late Heroics can go into Feydark or Falconry as a tertiary with leftover points (for GCS or Sprints respectively).

[Wolfen719]

I appreciate the feedback. Let me just say first off...I may have found all the builds I was looking for. I logged on to Strimtom's discord and asked there...and he pointed me out to his very recent HC4 builds. Some of those builds...well a few of them seemed like just the thing for some of the classes for me...and then through that I found his build repository and from there I was able to select builds for pretty much all classes.

Now, none of these builds were created for me and what I want, however, all they really need to do is to allow me to solo level to 20 (or 30 if I'm going iconic). There was only 1 build that's a little iffy as Strimtom himself posted on the build that it's a 2/5 solo ability...but I think it will do.

Having said that, if anyone wants to make some builds specifically for me then I would likely prefer those...but Strimtom does make really nice builds. I've used a few of his before, so it's not bad. But if anyone wants to create this list of builds...I'm sure that other people would also love to have a full list of builds, 1 for each class, to make their completionist goals that much easier.


Good luck lmao, that's a lotta ask. Maybe unbongwah has enough in his repository, but I'm not that organized personally :p

Most definately a lot to ask, so no worries.


Also still a few details to be provided; are you looking for R1 solo builds for all classes, or do you run Hard? Are you willing to farm out gear? Can all the builds be the same build? Do you zerg? What PL's/resources do you have available?

Well, lets see. R1 solo builds would be ideal as that gives the most XP, but I'm not concerned with R1 really. I'm sure once I'm done (or even before) I'll likely run some reaper mode runs with groups, but it's not really a goal of mine. So basically I run everything on Elite, and as mentioned there are a few quests that I have to run on Hard instead simply because they are more difficult. I'm sure you know the ones.

So, for Elite runs.

No, I am not willing to farm out gear. I do have a lot of gear, including some decent low level gear for "some" classes, and as I go I try to keep gear I think would be good for my next life. But I am not willing to dedicate farming runs to gear out a class that is just going to be "level then Reincarnate".

Can all the builds be the same build? I don't know how that would work. I mean I'm sure some classes could use identical or nearly identical builds, but I don't see how 1 build would be good for all classes...of course I don't understand all the intricacies of builds.

No, I do not zerg. I do like to try and finish runs as fast as I can...mainly because I use Sov II pots all the time, and those are expensive. But I like to try to complete everything in the quests, all the optionals and all the bonuses (conquest, ransack, disarm traps, etc...), but I don't always manage to complete all side optionals and bonuses and it doesn't bother me. So while I like to try to finish the quests quickly, it's by no means a zerg. So no zerging

As for PL resources available...if you mean gear, well yes, I do have a lot of PL gear that I've picked up. I keep ALL the blue gear that I get exactly for other characters or future incarnations. So I have decent gear for pretty much all classes...but I would say that gear is not close to complete. That is I may have 2-3 pieces good for 1 class for levels 2-6 but then I may not get another good piece or two until I hit level's 12+. So, the gear can be spotty, but I keep building up. But considering I'm happy with just doing Elite runs, the gear shouldn't be that big a deal. But I'll keep adding as I keep playing.


The easiest answers for you are the boring ones lol. Some 8-9/x/x class mix so you can just get whatever PL you want by changing the first class, or just running using Universal + Racial tree like a Inquisitive/Falconry Wis-max build? Or Inquisitive/Harper Int-max for trapping? Or Inquisitive/Feydark Cha-max for CC? Could go VKF for variety, although melee < ranged for survivability in Heroics.

Like a X/8/2 X/Favored Soul/Rogue using Inquisitive + Feydark/Falconry/Harper/Feydark (Feydark for solo carry, Falconry if you party/bring consistent CC, Harper if you are bad at trapping) maxing Cha/Wis/Int respectively. Feydark is probably easiest, Falconry is probably strongest with investment, Harper just gives great Evasion & trap skills.

I went with FvS because it gives native Wis or Cha to-hit-and-damage past level 2 (and you'll use XP rocks to skip 1) plus trances for both (use KtA for Int lives), +80 HP at level 7, Soundburst for Wis lives (use Greater Color Spray for Cha lives), and enough SP to spam your CC/heals as needed. There's definitely plenty of other options, but it's an easy base.

+7 tomes make feat pre-requisites easy (start like 14 Dex, then max DPS stat then go into Int & Con), and you're just Heroic so no need for Combat Archery.

And then just get a gearset or three (probably ML5 Feywild > ML8-10 RL + SL > ML15 Sharn) and a weapon or three (probs ML2 randomgen > Ratcatcher), and go ham. Make sure your gearset includes the usual ranged stuff, some DC stuff (Illusion Focus for Feydark, Evocation Focus & Assassinate for Falconry), and some swap items for trapping.

Enhancements - just go majority into Inquisitive, and later on go into your secondary tree; for Harper grab Int-to-Hit-and-Damage & KtA (do this early), for Feydark grab GCS and You've Got My Back, for Falconry grab Sprints, HP, and No Mercy (likely later). Late Heroics can go into Feydark or Falconry as a tertiary with leftover points (for GCS or Sprints respectively).

I appreciate the tips, thank you very much!

[SpartanKiller13]

I appreciate the feedback. Let me just say first off...I may have found all the builds I was looking for. I logged on to Strimtom's discord and asked there...and he pointed me out to his very recent HC4 builds. Some of those builds...well a few of them seemed like just the thing for some of the classes for me...and then through that I found his build repository and from there I was able to select builds for pretty much all classes.

Strimtom also has a few more build repositories from previous HC seasons, that should add a bit to your options. And he has a lot of detailed build guides in general. He's also currently on a series of 1-20 trying new stuff with fresh characters, which is pretty helpful because he's going in with no gear or resources.


Well, lets see. R1 solo builds would be ideal as that gives the most XP, but I'm not concerned with R1 really. I'm sure once I'm done (or even before) I'll likely run some reaper mode runs with groups, but it's not really a goal of mine. So basically I run everything on Elite, and as mentioned there are a few quests that I have to run on Hard instead simply because they are more difficult. I'm sure you know the ones.

Thanks! Self-healing is super important for solo builds, and it's a drastically different game on Elite vs R1. In R1 you do get some spell point sustain, but the 60% self-healing penalty hits pretty hard so you need to plan differently. On Elite you can reliably self-heal with almost any source, but it needs efficiency or built-in refilling (you can't just have 3 big heals/rest; but efficiency like Bard Songs healing for 10 minutes or Magical Training refilling enough to throw more heals works) whereas in R1 you mostly need big heals fast so you can stay alive.


No, I am not willing to farm out gear. I do have a lot of gear, including some decent low level gear for "some" classes, and as I go I try to keep gear I think would be good for my next life. But I am not willing to dedicate farming runs to gear out a class that is just going to be "level then Reincarnate".

As for PL resources available...if you mean gear, well yes, I do have a lot of PL gear that I've picked up. I keep ALL the blue gear that I get exactly for other characters or future incarnations. So I have decent gear for pretty much all classes...but I would say that gear is not close to complete. That is I may have 2-3 pieces good for 1 class for levels 2-6 but then I may not get another good piece or two until I hit level's 12+. So, the gear can be spotty, but I keep building up. But considering I'm happy with just doing Elite runs, the gear shouldn't be that big a deal. But I'll keep adding as I keep playing.

That's totally fine! Just means I'd recommend against heavily hybrid builds. Until you pick up a few more pieces of trapping gear, I'd recommend only trying to trap on Int-max builds (for the skills and Insightful Reflex-powered Evasion). A ranged DPS build with no gear vs great gear is just slower time-to-kill. A DC caster with no gear vs great gear is useless vs god-mode - some builds just lean more heavily on gear than others, so I'd prioritize based on what you have available. That said, once you have main-stat and DC gear you can kinda skip the rest for a DC caster, whereas a melee DPS build really wants a full gearset (for saves, HP, PRR/MRR, etc).


Can all the builds be the same build? I don't know how that would work. I mean I'm sure some classes could use identical or nearly identical builds, but I don't see how 1 build would be good for all classes...of course I don't understand all the intricacies of builds.

Just meaning like any 14 levels + Fighter 6 can work as a THF, using Kensei to do everything (although that's very easy to optimize from there). Take Cleric 6 as well while doing PDK lives (Silvanus + Displacement), and you can get 3 HPL's of your choice while also getting 3 hits of one of the strongest IPL's available on an excellent melee build. Or just do it for Heroics too lol, Displacement SLA + Cleric sustain = win. Or 8/6/6 x/Barbarian/Fighter also works great, using Ravager T5 + Kensei C3 and running THF melee with Blood Tribute > Blood Strength for sustain.

I'm a huge fan of THF though, which is definitely a factor as to why I'd consider doing that for PL's I don't care about. Your personal playstyle/interest is a huge factor, which is why it's hard to just hand you 15 cookie-cutter builds. You can get an Alchemist PL as a THF Barbarian/Fighter just ignoring the class entirely, but that might not be as fun as blasting stuff on an Alchemist - or it might be what you really want!

I know two players that ran Heroic Completionist as 10/10 x/Warlock (you can do this for all but Druid and Alchemist now) literally just ignoring all their other class features.

It's why I was mentioning VKF or Inquisitive plus Harper/Feydark/Falconry - you could literally run all your Heroic lives as a Cha-max Feydark VKF build, using Greater Color Spray plus knife melee. Build is nearly identical regardless of class, although you could certainly optimize by adding useful class features.


No, I do not zerg. I do like to try and finish runs as fast as I can...mainly because I use Sov II pots all the time, and those are expensive. But I like to try to complete everything in the quests, all the optionals and all the bonuses (conquest, ransack, disarm traps, etc...), but I don't always manage to complete all side optionals and bonuses and it doesn't bother me. So while I like to try to finish the quests quickly, it's by no means a zerg. So no zerging

Means stuff like Sprint Boosts are higher priority to you, and it'd be better to be less dependent on shrines and AoE is more important as trash-killing is most of your heroic career.

-------

What do you enjoy playing? Or are you trying to find out? If it's a specific style, it might be possible to just run all your lives as that. If you don't know, you're probably better off just doing pure lives and trying new things!

[Wickednisse]

As the title suggests, I am a returning player that has outdated gear and I also have a 3 cleric/1 paladin third life TR character that is outdated. If anyone could point me in the direction of a decent build that I could run so as not to be a complete burden on the party it would be awesome!

[C-Dog]

3 cleric/1 paladin third life TR character that is outdated... not to be a complete burden on the party...
This shouldn't be too hard, A "party healer" is no longer really a thing, but "a healer" is always appreciated and DPS is not as hard to find as it used to be. Cleric has been improved in that latter point, and Pali can be dovetailed in to many builds to get martial weapons and better saves.

Couple questions to make the job easier...

1) What order did you take Cleric 3/Pali 1?*

2) What are your 3 past lives?

3) What Tomes? (I assume at least 3 +2 Tomes from 1,750 favor?)

4) Any Epic PL's?

5) Is there a style of combat that you prefer, or one that you would rather avoid? Choices are melee/ranged/caster (and within melee, there's 2-hand, 2-weapon, and single-weapon). No guarantees that any/all will be viable, but it might be a starting point.

(* If you need help remembering the order, see https://ddowiki.com/page/Fred#Tips: )

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Haven't played a rogue in many years.

Need some assistance creating a FOR FUN, FLAVOR build.

Since my son is playing (after years of watching me play), Id like to work with what he has already built.

ELF ROGUE. TWF. Int based. Vistani. Throwing. Melee over ranged (dont want many or any ranged feats) Loves the idea of sneak attack. Not sold on assassin.

Is build going going melee without assassin?

Also what are success with traps without going mech?

Lastly, compare this setup to going with a mech/vistani? (unless thats exactly what we are building

Remember this is a starter player, but excels at multitasking. Being OP is not the goal. Flavor is the goal, but in a way where synergies can be maximized wherever possible so he feels like he's kicking some ass and not getting roflstomped.

TY in advance!!

[unbongwah]

ELF ROGUE. TWF. Int based. Vistani. Throwing. Melee over ranged (dont want many or any ranged feats) Loves the idea of sneak attack. Not sold on assassin.
Okay some questions and comments:

Pure rogue or is multiclassing acceptable?
Why INT based on an elf? For throwing daggers you'll really want Simple Thrown Weapon Expertise (STWE) feat, which is keyed on DEX unless you're an Alchemist. And trap skills have a lot more to do with gear, buffs, etc. than whether INT is your primary stat.
"Throwing. Melee over ranged (dont want many or any ranged feats)" - do you mean you want a build with both melee & throwing DPS favoring melee? VKF provides Quick Draw for free, but you need a lot more than that to make a credible throwing dagger build.
"Not sold on assassin" - even if not using Assassinate, Assassin has a lot of synergies with VKF, including Lethality's +1 stacking crit multiplier.

[SpartanKiller13]

ELF ROGUE. TWF. Int based. Vistani. Throwing. Melee over ranged (dont want many or any ranged feats) Loves the idea of sneak attack. Not sold on assassin.

Is build going going melee without assassin?

Also what are success with traps without going mech?

Lastly, compare this setup to going with a mech/vistani? (unless thats exactly what we are building

Remember this is a starter player, but excels at multitasking. Being OP is not the goal. Flavor is the goal, but in a way where synergies can be maximized wherever possible so he feels like he's kicking some ass and not getting roflstomped.

TY in advance!!


VKF is good at anything with daggers.
Mechanic is only good for thrown daggers (dagger-wise).
Assassin is only good for melee daggers.

You don't really want to split AP between Mechanic and Assassin, I'd highly recommend picking one of those + VKF.


Dex-max works great with TWF melee (as you don't need to worry about Harper AP or TWF feat prerequisites).
Dex-max works great with thrown daggers (for Simple Thrown Weapon Expertise (https://ddowiki.com/page/Simple_Thrown_Weapon_Expertise)).
Int-max works decently with Mechanic for thrown daggers, given you get Int-to-Damage at core 3 - and thus only need 3 AP into Harper for Int-to-Hit).
Int-max works passingly with TWF melee - you need 12 AP into Harper for Int-to-Hit and Int-to-Damage, which is expensive; and you need 17 Dex for Improved TWF anyway.

Not sure what you mean by "Throwing. Melee over ranged" as throwing is inherently ranged, and TWF is inherently melee (and not throwing). A melee-specialized Vistani/Assassin Rogue will have passable ranged DPS with a throwing dagger, but if you want to build a thrower build that's a lot different than a melee build :)

What level is his character? And what's his goal? Does he plan on hitting 20 and TRing, or is he after a build that's strong for epics, or for raids? Does he have a Dex tome (if not, Int-based is harder).

Both VKF and Assassin have a fair amount of actives. Assassin's Trick & Execute are both excellent and easy to use, and VKF has lots of fun active attacks (and a defensive clicky to boot).

I'd recommend mostly investing in VKF, cores and T5; go Harper around level 5 (for Strategic Combat 1 & 2), and Assassin with leftovers.

I don't think you want Mechanic much for a TWF build, although some points early can help with trapping until you get some relevant gear.

Unbongwah also has a good list of questions :)

-------

Now if you're talking about a Int-based VKF thrower (non-TWF non-melee) than VKF/Mechanic is the way to go for a Rogue build. That would require ranged feats and be bad at melee though, which seems like the opposite of what you're asking for?

Let us know what's going on, and feel free to ask for explanations :)

[C-Dog]

Also what are success with traps without going mech?
Trapping relies on 3 factors - Stats (Int for Search/DD), Skills (maxed ranks), and gear (both Stat and Trapping, and relatively at-level*). If any of these are absent, then something like Mechanic can help, adding up to +3 in Search or Disable (and Open Locks, but that's rarely an issue if you're willing to reroll until you roll high).


(* Standard bonus max for 1 piece of "skill" gear is +2 over current level up to about Level 12, then +1 up to late Heroics, then at-level. However, after 10 you can start adding in Insightful, for a higher bonus. You can usually get away with letting gear upgrades slide about every 3 levels, or more if you're not running E/R.)


With an Int-build (and Int gear), you have that covered. With a pure(ish) Rogue, you have skill points out the wazoo, so "full ranks" are covered. If he has a rich uncle (ahem), proper gear isn't a problem - either via AH or help farm something, or Cannith Craft a set - Spare Hands (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Spare_Hand) via challenges are great too.

If you're worried that the gear may be a problem (as in Hard Core, or any fast leveling, or just forgetting to hit the bank and upgrade the gear), that's when Mechanic's +3 can cover the margin of error. Especially for a new and/or young player, where over-enthusiasm may rule the day over attention to detail, a half-dozen points in Mechanic can provide a great safety net (and Core 1 also gets Great Crossbow as a superb ranged option to start any long-distance negotiations).

Not also that many combat-Rogues need to slot both their combat gear and trapping gear on adjacent hotbars and "gear swap" to do trapping - teach your son how this works, and to remember to swap back to be ready for the next fight!

[SpartanKiller13]

If any of these are absent, then something like Mechanic can help, adding up to +3 in Search or Disable (and Open Locks, but that's rarely an issue if you're willing to reroll until you roll high).

(* Standard bonus max for 1 piece of "skill" gear is +2 over current level up to about Level 12, then +1 up to late Heroics, then at-level. However, after 10 you can start adding in Insightful, for a higher bonus. You can usually get away with letting gear upgrades slide about every 3 levels, or more if you're not running E/R.)

Also easy access to Skill Boost for +6 to all skills temporarily if you're really struggling with traps :)

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Okay some questions and comments:

Pure rogue or is multiclassing acceptable?
Why INT based on an elf? For throwing daggers you'll really want Simple Thrown Weapon Expertise (STWE) feat, which is keyed on DEX unless you're an Alchemist. And trap skills have a lot more to do with gear, buffs, etc. than whether INT is your primary stat.



Heya -- yea the synergies of the choices at first glanced sucked so I though maybe hit up this thread which has created so many great builds over the years.

-- Pure rogue. Elf for lore.

-- Simple Thrown Weapon Expertise-- He is level 6 and will not... WILL NOT reroll (I wonder where he got his willpower from.. ahemm). So... here's the thing. I have already purchased him a +8 tome for INT & DEX in the store. That's all the Mississippee Pops is buying him https://www.ddo.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.png ==> so with stubbornness ahem I mean willpower plus + 8 INT/DEX I'm hoping it wont hurt as much if he switches to just putting the rest of his stat points into DEX (if this is what we do). I'm breaking my own rule here there's no way I would throw away level ups on my builds but with stat level ups on 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24 and 28.. there's 6 more levels ups left







"Throwing. Melee over ranged (dont want many or any ranged feats)" - do you mean you want a build with both melee & throwing DPS favoring melee? VKF provides Quick Draw for free, but you need a lot more than that to make a credible throwing dagger build.
"Not sold on assassin" - even if not using Assassinate, Assassin has a lot of synergies with VKF, including Lethality's +1 stacking crit multiplier.



--- (VKF provides Quick Draw for free, but you need a lot more than that to make a credible throwing dagger build.) I think he will be meleeing 80-90% of the time, with with remainder ranged. He doesnt like bows but did like throwing. I dont know what his ranged game is going to look like so ?I felt uneasy investing in ranged feats if he's not going to be using it enough to qualify the feat expenditure thats needed.

--- (Assassin has a lot of synergies with VKF) I saw that. Hence why my headache enlarged while trying to crunch out a build ;)~~

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

VKF is good at anything with daggers.
Mechanic is only good for thrown daggers (dagger-wise).
Assassin is only good for melee daggers.


Check




You don't really want to split AP between Mechanic and Assassin, I'd highly recommend picking one of those + VKF.


Dex-max works great with TWF melee (as you don't need to worry about Harper AP or TWF feat prerequisites).
Dex-max works great with thrown daggers (for Simple Thrown Weapon Expertise (https://ddowiki.com/page/Simple_Thrown_Weapon_Expertise)).
Int-max works decently with Mechanic for thrown daggers, given you get Int-to-Damage at core 3 - and thus only need 3 AP into Harper for Int-to-Hit).
Int-max works passingly with TWF melee - you need 12 AP into Harper for Int-to-Hit and Int-to-Damage, which is expensive; and you need 17 Dex for Improved TWF anyway.

Not sure what you mean by "Throwing. Melee over ranged" as throwing is inherently ranged, and TWF is inherently melee (and not throwing). A melee-specialized Vistani/Assassin Rogue will have passable ranged DPS with a throwing dagger, but if you want to build a thrower build that's a lot different than a melee build https://www.ddo.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.png


Thats why I couldn't decided and opted to post here. It just did not computate in my head. Wont be dex max since he didnt max dex. Got to check what he started with.

Im wondering if we should just start dipping into dex now starting at level 8 but Im not sure what he started with so.... +8 Dex tome should suffice but OUCH on the 12 ap Harper expenditure that's just too much.

"Throwing. Melee over ranged" -- Poor choice of words on my part. By ranged I meant bows. By throwing I was referring to throwing daggers.




What level is his character? And what's his goal? Does he plan on hitting 20 and TRing, or is he after a build that's strong for epics, or for raids? Does he have a Dex tome (if not, Int-based is harder).

Both VKF and Assassin have a fair amount of actives. Assassin's Trick & Execute are both excellent and easy to use, and VKF has lots of fun active attacks (and a defensive clicky to boot).

Level 6. He wants to just play and have fun. He wants to be effective -- but does not care about min/maxing per say. FUN > being absolute best.



Does he plan on hitting 20 and TRing, or is he after a build that's strong for epics, or for raids?

He's going to 30, probably stopping there on this build so epics/raids maybe reaper.


Does he have a Dex tome (if not, Int-based is harder).

Hee hee... I am well... Pops.



I'd recommend mostly investing in VKF, cores and T5; go Harper around level 5 (for Strategic Combat 1 & 2), and Assassin with leftovers.

You might just be right here.


I don't think you want Mechanic much for a TWF build, although some points early can help with trapping until you get some relevant gear.

So with the +8 tomes, and NO mechanic, and probably going (way) over on INT should more than cover any traps in the game right? If not which ones does he miss?

-------


Now if you're talking about a Int-based VKF thrower (non-TWF non-melee) than VKF/Mechanic is the way to go for a Rogue build. That would require ranged feats and be bad at melee though, which seems like the opposite of what you're asking for?

True true. I think you talked me out of INT. Great breakdown for me. TY so much Spartan! ( and unbongwah! )

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Trapping relies on 3 factors - Stats (Int for Search/DD), Skills (maxed ranks), and gear (both Stat and Trapping, and relatively at-level*). If any of these are absent, then something like Mechanic can help, adding up to +3 in Search or Disable (and Open Locks, but that's rarely an issue if you're willing to reroll until you roll high).
(* Standard bonus max for 1 piece of "skill" gear is +2 over current level up to about Level 12, then +1 up to late Heroics, then at-level. However, after 10 you can start adding in Insightful, for a higher bonus. You can usually get away with letting gear upgrades slide about every 3 levels, or more if you're not running E/R.)





Hey C-Dog! Long time no see. Nice explanation man. And makes sense. We will be running epic for sure when we get there (I rolled a fighter to run with his rogue and his friend's wizard). Reaper is possible later on.



With an Int-build (and Int gear), you have that covered. With a pure(ish) Rogue, you have skill points out the wazoo, so "full ranks" are covered. If he has a rich uncle (ahem), proper gear isn't a problem - either via AH or help farm something, or Cannith Craft a set - Spare Hands (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Spare_Hand) via challenges are great too.

Rich you say (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ZSKE38lTU)? The Cajun lady's got this. haha

Hmmm.. If he switches to dex now... wonder if he'll still be covered... that's a big question I have.



If you're worried that the gear may be a problem (as in Hard Core, or any fast leveling, or just forgetting to hit the bank and upgrade the gear), that's when Mechanic's +3 can cover the margin of error. Especially for a new and/or young player, where over-enthusiasm may rule the day over attention to detail, a half-dozen points in Mechanic can provide a great safety net (and Core 1 also gets Great Crossbow as a superb ranged option to start any long-distance negotiations).

Not also that many combat-Rogues need to slot both their combat gear and trapping gear on adjacent hotbars and "gear swap" to do trapping - teach your son how this works, and to remember to swap back to be ready for the next fight!

Oh yeah started discussing multi tasking from DAY ONE. But he has lots of learning to do about gear/game mechanics. We are playing it slow, esp for his friend that's brand new.

[SpartanKiller13]

Im wondering if we should just start dipping into dex now starting at level 8 but Im not sure what he started with so.... +8 Dex tome should suffice but OUCH on the 12 ap Harper expenditure that's just too much.

"Throwing. Melee over ranged" -- Poor choice of words on my part. By ranged I meant bows. By throwing I was referring to throwing daggers.

Level 6. He wants to just play and have fun. He wants to be effective -- but does not care about min/maxing per say. FUN > being absolute best.

He's going to 30, probably stopping there on this build so epics/raids maybe reaper.

True true. I think you talked me out of INT. Great breakdown for me. TY so much Spartan! ( and unbongwah! )

I wrote a bunch but it got deleted, so here's take two:

I'd recommend going Dex-max from here on out. It's not a huge loss being a few points behind (starting 14 vs 20 Dex really isn't that impactful), and high Int = lots of skill points and ability to benefit from Know the Angles in epics. From what I've heard trapping is more about gearing anyway.

I'd go majority melee-focused with TWF daggers, and run secondary throwing when cooldowns are available or as needed (stack Multitude of Missiles + Whirling Blades on top of the usual Rapid Throw & Blessed Blades = great DPS for 15s every 2 minutes). Most AP into VKF, some into Assassin. End split probably:


42 AP VKF - all cores, actives, full T5
31 AP Assassin - core 5, Sneak Attack, Dex
7 AP Harper - Know the Angles II (it's a pretty solid DPS buff if you have some Int/spell points laying around). Feel free to ditch this.

VKF works well with melee and ranged, with active enhancements usually giving you the active for both (vs forcing you to only pick one).

Biggest issue with hybrid melee/ranged is feats (you want like 5 melee feats and 7 ranged feats, not counting epic/destiny feats lol). I don't know what feats you have yet, but the feats I'd recommend:
(1) TWF
(3) Point-Blank Shot
(6) Precision - works for melee and ranged, so it's great efficiency
(9) Improved TWF
(12) Multitude of Missiles - great synergy with Whirling Blades
(15) Greater TWF
(18) Improved Critical: Piercing - goes well with Assassin Core 5
(21) Simple Thrown Expertise - now that he has lots of Dex, time to multiply it
(24) Overwhelming Critical
(26D) Perfect TWF (if available)
(27) Improved Sneak Attack
(28D) Doubleshot
(29D) Dire Charge or Deific Warding
(30) Improved Critical: Thrown
(30L) Scion of Ethereal Plane

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So with the +8 tomes, and NO mechanic, and probably going (way) over on INT should more than cover any traps in the game right? If not which ones does he miss?

Mostly about gearing AFAIK, but rule of thumb is newer content is harder, which is an easy way to get an idea of the DC's involved. With his heavy Int investment and some gearing he'll be fine though :)

[unbongwah]

-- Pure rogue. Elf for lore.
Okay after confirming that Dagger in the Back works with throwing daggers - if I were to tackle this build now, it would look something like this:

Vistani Elf Rogue
18/2 Rogue/Fighter
Elf




Level Order


1. Rogue 6. Rogue 11. Rogue 16. Rogue
2. Rogue 7. Rogue 12. Rogue 17. Rogue
3. Rogue 8. Fighter 13. Rogue 18. Fighter
4. Rogue 9. Rogue 14. Rogue 19. Rogue
5. Rogue 10. Rogue 15. Rogue 20. Rogue




Stats
28pt 32pt Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 8 4: DEX
Dexterity 20 20 8: DEX
Constitution 12 14 12: DEX
Intelligence 14 14 16: DEX
Wisdom 8 8 20: DEX
Charisma 8 8 24: DEX
28: DEX


Feats


1 : Two Weapon Fighting
3 : Simple Thrown Expertise
6 : Point Blank Shot
8 Fighter: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9 : Multitude of Missiles
12 : Improved Critical: Piercing OR Thrown
15 : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 : Precise Shot
18 Fighter: Improved Precise Shot
21 Epic : Precision
24 Epic : Improved Sneak Attack
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Combat Archery OR Improved Critical: Thrown
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane


11 Rogue : Opportunist
14 Rogue : Crippling Strike OR Defensive Roll
17 Rogue : Improved Evasion




Enhancements (Spent: 80+0r +0u / Max: 80+0r +0u AP)


Vistani Knife Fighter (45 AP)

Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Quick Reflexes, One With Blades, Vistani Fortune, Blade Master

Vistani Knife Training I, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Rapid Slash
Vistani Knife Training II, Mist Stalker II, Weapon Versatility, Haste Boost III
Vistani Knife Training III, Fan of Knives, Mist Stalker III, Deadly Blades
Vistani Knife Training IV, Celerity, Mist Stalker IV, Choose One: Double Daggers
Vistani Knife Training V, Whirling Blades, Mist Stalker V, Blessed Blades, Vendetta



Assassin (31 AP)

Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality

Poison Strikes: Heartseeker, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training
Execute, Weakening Strikes, Sneak Attack Training



Thief-Acrobat (3 AP)

Staff Control

Fast Movement



Elf (1 AP)

Elven Accuracy


Leveling Guide

Ass0 Knife in the Darkness; Ass1 Sneak Attack Training; Vis0 Knife Expertise
Vis1 Rapid Slash; Ass1 Stealthy I, II
Ass0 Dagger in the Back; Ass2 Damage Boost I, II, III
Vis1 Mist Stalker; Vis0 Knife Juggler; Vis1 Vistani Knife Training I
Vis2 Haste Boost I, II, III; Ass1 Stealthy III
Ass0 Assassin's Trick; Vis0 Quick Reflexes; Vis3 Fan of Knives
Vis2 Mist Stalker II; Vis3 Mist Stalker III
TA0 Staff Control; TA1 Fast Movement; Vis1 Undead Hunter
Vis3 Deadly Blades; Vis4 Choose One: Double Daggers
Vis4 Celerity; Vis2 Weapon Versatility; Vis4 Mist Stalker IV
Vis2 Vistani Knife Training II; Vis3 Vistani Knife Training III
Vis0 One With Blades; Vis5 Whirling Blades; Elf0 Elven Accuracy
Vis5 Mist Stalker V; Vis5 Vendetta
Vis5 Blessed Blades; Vis4 Vistani Knife Training IV
Vis5 Vistani Knife Training V; Ass2 Venomed Blades I, II
Ass2 Venomed Blades III; Ass2 Sneak Attack Training
Ass3 Sneak Attack Training; Ass1 Poison Strikes: Heartseeker; Ass0 Nimbleness
Vis0 Vistani Fortune; Ass3 Critical Mastery I, II, III
Ass4 Execute; Ass4 Weakening Strikes
Vis0 Blade Master; Ass4 Sneak Attack Training; Ass0 Lethality


For any sort of dagger thrower build, I'd say the bare minimum feat requirements are Simple Thrown Expertise + Point Blank Shot (pre-req for MoM) + Multitude of Missiles. Quick Draw is free from the Vistani tree; Whirling Blades is the 10,000 Stars equivalent for dagger throwers; and MoM replaces Manyshot. Basically, use throwing daggers when MoM or Whirling Blades are off cooldown and melee daggers the rest of the time.

The fighter 2 splash adds extra feats to a build concept which really needs them; and if you know you're going for the Vistani capstone, you don't need more than rogue 18. Pure rogue has to give up two feats (e.g., Precise Shot + Improved Precise Shot); but gains +1d6 sneak attack, one more rogue bonus feat, can take Lethality at character level 18 (instead of 20), and has access to the Assassin capstone should your son decide to respec into that.

Anyway that's all I got, adapt as you see fit. Good luck and have fun! Remember: the family which slays together, stays together. :cool:

[SpartanKiller13]

The fighter 2 splash adds extra feats to a build concept which really needs them; and if you know you're going for the Vistani capstone, you don't need more than rogue 18. Pure rogue has to give up two feats (e.g., Precise Shot + Improved Precise Shot); but gains +1d6 sneak attack, one more rogue bonus feat, can take Lethality at character level 18 (instead of 20), and has access to the Assassin capstone should your son decide to respec into that.

Yeah, splashing Fighter for feats was my first thought too :p it's definitely a feat squeeze there. IPS is really nice though, so if a splash is acceptable I'd vote for one as well.

Glad to see I'm on the right track for throwers though XD

[unbongwah]

Well, it's not like I ran this build personally so it's all just theorycrafting. :cool: But minmaxing bores me so I like the idea of an Assassin who also has a ranged backup. And Improved Precise Shot addresses one of the shortcomings of a typical Assassin - namely a lack of AoE DPS - but obviously it costs several feats to get there.

[SpartanKiller13]

Well, it's not like I ran this build personally so it's all just theorycrafting. :cool: But minmaxing bores me so I like the idea of an Assassin who also has a ranged backup. And Improved Precise Shot addresses one of the shortcomings of a typical Assassin - namely a lack of AoE DPS - but obviously it costs several feats to get there.

Yeah, and stacking cooldowns for boosted knife combat seems pretty decent given you still have TWF the rest of the time :)

Might actually be better boss DPS etc, I'm kinda curious now. Wish IC:Piercing worked for both though :/ because for endgame that sorta locks you into wanting Autumn's Veil which is feytwisted raid loot so good luck.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

YOU GUYS FREIKIN ROCK!!

You know that I've built a few builds over the years on this forum that captured the imagination, and that's why I helped so many people build bards over the years. Theory crafting makes a builder feel like Santa Claus. There are a lot worse hobbies out there fellas.

What you three built is a non-tweaked build that someone can jump into and MAKE IT HIS OWN. I was really hoping someone could do for me and my son.

Mission accomplished!!!

Thank you SpartanKiller13, Unbongwah and C-dog for what you do here. It's beyond appreciated.

[SpartanKiller13]

YOU GUYS FREIKIN ROCK!!

You know that I've built a few builds over the years on this forum that captured the imagination, and that's why I helped so many people build bards over the years. Theory crafting makes a builder feel like Santa Claus. There are a lot worse hobbies out there fellas.

What you three built is a non-tweaked build that someone can jump into and MAKE IT HIS OWN. I was really hoping someone could do for me and my son.

Mission accomplished!!!

Thank you SpartanKiller13, Unbongwah and C-dog for what you do here. It's beyond appreciated.

Glad to help! Let us know if ya need more, or make an abrupt left-turn halfway through leveling :p

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Glad to help! Let us know if ya need more, or make an abrupt left-turn halfway through leveling :p

I already ran down the hallway pulled out my hair jumped out the window and ran back around so I think I got it out of my system. Its his problem now! Sink or swim time!!! :)~~~

[gam3rfi3nd]

Okay after confirming that Dagger in the Back works with throwing daggers - if I were to tackle this build now, it would look something like this:

Vistani Elf Rogue
18/2 Rogue/Fighter
Elf




Level Order


1. Rogue 6. Rogue 11. Rogue 16. Rogue
2. Rogue 7. Rogue 12. Rogue 17. Rogue
3. Rogue 8. Fighter 13. Rogue 18. Fighter
4. Rogue 9. Rogue 14. Rogue 19. Rogue
5. Rogue 10. Rogue 15. Rogue 20. Rogue




Stats
28pt 32pt Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 8 4: DEX
Dexterity 20 20 8: DEX
Constitution 12 14 12: DEX
Intelligence 14 14 16: DEX
Wisdom 8 8 20: DEX
Charisma 8 8 24: DEX
28: DEX


Feats


1 : Two Weapon Fighting
3 : Simple Thrown Expertise
6 : Point Blank Shot
8 Fighter: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9 : Multitude of Missiles
12 : Improved Critical: Piercing OR Thrown
15 : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 : Precise Shot
18 Fighter: Improved Precise Shot
21 Epic : Precision
24 Epic : Improved Sneak Attack
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Combat Archery OR Improved Critical: Thrown
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane


11 Rogue : Opportunist
14 Rogue : Crippling Strike OR Defensive Roll
17 Rogue : Improved Evasion




Enhancements (Spent: 80+0r +0u / Max: 80+0r +0u AP)


Vistani Knife Fighter (45 AP)

Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Quick Reflexes, One With Blades, Vistani Fortune, Blade Master

Vistani Knife Training I, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Rapid Slash
Vistani Knife Training II, Mist Stalker II, Weapon Versatility, Haste Boost III
Vistani Knife Training III, Fan of Knives, Mist Stalker III, Deadly Blades
Vistani Knife Training IV, Celerity, Mist Stalker IV, Choose One: Double Daggers
Vistani Knife Training V, Whirling Blades, Mist Stalker V, Blessed Blades, Vendetta



Assassin (31 AP)

Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality

Poison Strikes: Heartseeker, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training
Execute, Weakening Strikes, Sneak Attack Training



Thief-Acrobat (3 AP)

Staff Control

Fast Movement



Elf (1 AP)

Elven Accuracy


Leveling Guide

Ass0 Knife in the Darkness; Ass1 Sneak Attack Training; Vis0 Knife Expertise
Vis1 Rapid Slash; Ass1 Stealthy I, II
Ass0 Dagger in the Back; Ass2 Damage Boost I, II, III
Vis1 Mist Stalker; Vis0 Knife Juggler; Vis1 Vistani Knife Training I
Vis2 Haste Boost I, II, III; Ass1 Stealthy III
Ass0 Assassin's Trick; Vis0 Quick Reflexes; Vis3 Fan of Knives
Vis2 Mist Stalker II; Vis3 Mist Stalker III
TA0 Staff Control; TA1 Fast Movement; Vis1 Undead Hunter
Vis3 Deadly Blades; Vis4 Choose One: Double Daggers
Vis4 Celerity; Vis2 Weapon Versatility; Vis4 Mist Stalker IV
Vis2 Vistani Knife Training II; Vis3 Vistani Knife Training III
Vis0 One With Blades; Vis5 Whirling Blades; Elf0 Elven Accuracy
Vis5 Mist Stalker V; Vis5 Vendetta
Vis5 Blessed Blades; Vis4 Vistani Knife Training IV
Vis5 Vistani Knife Training V; Ass2 Venomed Blades I, II
Ass2 Venomed Blades III; Ass2 Sneak Attack Training
Ass3 Sneak Attack Training; Ass1 Poison Strikes: Heartseeker; Ass0 Nimbleness
Vis0 Vistani Fortune; Ass3 Critical Mastery I, II, III
Ass4 Execute; Ass4 Weakening Strikes
Vis0 Blade Master; Ass4 Sneak Attack Training; Ass0 Lethality


For any sort of dagger thrower build, I'd say the bare minimum feat requirements are Simple Thrown Expertise + Point Blank Shot (pre-req for MoM) + Multitude of Missiles. Quick Draw is free from the Vistani tree; Whirling Blades is the 10,000 Stars equivalent for dagger throwers; and MoM replaces Manyshot. Basically, use throwing daggers when MoM or Whirling Blades are off cooldown and melee daggers the rest of the time.

The fighter 2 splash adds extra feats to a build concept which really needs them; and if you know you're going for the Vistani capstone, you don't need more than rogue 18. Pure rogue has to give up two feats (e.g., Precise Shot + Improved Precise Shot); but gains +1d6 sneak attack, one more rogue bonus feat, can take Lethality at character level 18 (instead of 20), and has access to the Assassin capstone should your son decide to respec into that.

Anyway that's all I got, adapt as you see fit. Good luck and have fun! Remember: the family which slays together, stays together. :cool:
I actually believe it looks pretty tight. I really hope it can end up being as effective as you want to.

[Ryukendo]

So, got a request. And it's mostly 'cause I got a Ferrocrystal Throwing Hammer on Hardcore and realized I've not seen, nor has Google helped me find a single build for throwing hammers.

That said, there's the request. Throwing Hammer build.

Hit me, please? Insane curiousity here. I blame Hardcore RNG.

[unbongwah]

And it's mostly 'cause I got a Ferrocrystal Throwing Hammer on Hardcore and realized I've not seen, nor has Google helped me find a single build for throwing hammers.
It's because there's nothing on par with Simple Thrown Expertise nor Multitude of Missiles for throwing hammers (or axes), to say nothing of Vistani Knife Fighter's bonuses to daggers or Vile Chemist's bonuses to simple weapons. Literally the only upside is throwing hammers should benefit from Pulverizer in LD.

Otherwise a throwing hammer / axe build will probably look like all the simple thrower builds e.g. rogue 11 / ranger 6 / bard 3 with tier-5 Deepwood Stalker + Dashing Scoundrel from Swashbuckler. The silver lining being when you get tired of lagging behind the simple throwers, you can just add STE and MoM to "fix" your build.

[Sparty]

Greetings DDO Friends,

Looking for a solo reaper DPS build self healer

Dabbled in reaper during heroics but once I got into Epics I was never able to solo so gave up trying (dieing).
There's always been plenty of stuff to run to carry me to cap, Which is where I sit and farm gear. I'm bored!!!
As a melee warlock I can solo some Elite content but not all. I'm a terrible player

Supreme +7 Tome
4th Life - I have Barb, Monk, Sorc, currently Warlock
EPL's - Energy crit x2, fast heal, skill mastery
Pure, no multiclass
Utilize Blackrazor so THF
Standard races - I own PDK, Aasimar, Tiefling
I dont raid - don't feel I am good enough to join so my gear is limited to what I can get from drops
I own all packs
I don't craft but can if I have to - I've collected plenty of stuff over the yeras and can probably max out a crafter in a few hours.

I look forward to the build

[SpartanKiller13]

Greetings DDO Friends,

Looking for a solo reaper DPS build self healer

Dabbled in reaper during heroics but once I got into Epics I was never able to solo so gave up trying (dieing).
There's always been plenty of stuff to run to carry me to cap, Which is where I sit and farm gear. I'm bored!!!
As a melee warlock I can solo some Elite content but not all. I'm a terrible player

Supreme +7 Tome
Pure, no multiclass
Utilize Blackrazor so THF
Standard races - I own PDK, Aasimar, Tiefling
I dont raid - don't feel I am good enough to join so my gear is limited to what I can get from drops
I own all packs
I don't craft but can if I have to - I've collected plenty of stuff over the yeras and can probably max out a crafter in a few hours.

I look forward to the build

Welcome :)

Epic Elite is proportionally a lot harder than Heroic Elite - and Reaper commensurately.

Are you looking for 1-30? 1-20? 20-30?

Solo THF DPS melee with self-heals as a pure class is a pretty stringent set of requirements lol. You're largely stuck with Paladin or Barbarian. Paladin has better saves/defenses, Barbarian is easier and probably better DPS. Once you park a rez hire Barbarian is probably better, but if you really hate dying go Paladin instead.

Paladin uses LoH earlygame, Cures later, and and probably Cocoon in epics for soloing.
Barbarian uses Blood Tribute from level 2+, and for soloing 12+ you'll want Blood Strength from Ravager T5. (https://ddowiki.com/page/Ravager_enhancements#Tier_Five)

Starting:
Race: doesn't matter as long as you're not Warforged. Bigger races have more reach = good, Human gets a bonus feat and cheap HAmp = good.
Stats: max Str > Con for Barbarian, and Str > Con/Cha for Paladin. Put points in Int if you want skill points. Level-ups into Str.
Skills: get like 10 points into Jump. Everything else is cake. Heal is alright for Paladins.

Feats:

Barbarian: THF x3, ICrit:Slashing, Power Attack
Paladin: THF x3, ICrit:Slashing, Precision (if you start Dex 10 you can take this at level 3)

Both get two leftover feats - for Paladin I'd take Quicken Spell and Empower Healing (for Cocoon in epics) or Stunning Blow. For Barbarian I'd take Stunning Blow and Toughness.

Epic Feats: Overwhelming Critical > Toughness (Epic if possible) > Blinding Speed (for QOL) > Epic Damage Reduction
Destiny Feats: Perfect THF > Perfect TWF > Dire Charge
Scion Feat: Arborea

------

Enhancements - Barbarian: grab Blood Tribute from FB, then do whatever until 12, then spec for Ravager T5 + Blood Tribute, then back into FB for goodies. Grab cores whenever possible. For epics either FB capstone (for DPS) or Ravager capstone (for survivability/more AP to spread).

Enhancements - Paladin: grab extra LoH early, then KotC until like level 5, then get Sacred Defense + perks for 25 PRR, then KotC for Core 3, then Sacred Defender for +20% HP, then fill out KotC. Eventually grab +6 Str from Sacred Defender, but mostly 2/3 of your AP into KotC. Grab cores whenever possible. For epics run capstone KotC and Core 5 Sacred Defender (make sure you swap 20% HP for +6 Con when you get Epic Defensive Fighting).

[Sparty]

Character name: My Pal
Classes: 20 Paladin, 10 Epic
Race: Aasimar · · · · · · ·Alignment: Lawful Good

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · ·0% · · ·Displacement:· · 0%
Str:· · 18· · 7 · ·75 · · ·HP:· · · ·1111 · · ·AC:· · 67
Dex:· · ·8· · 7 · ·15 · · ·PRR: · · · 137
Con:· · 16· · 7 · ·54 · · ·MRR: · · · 135 · · ·+Healing Amp:· ·220
Int:· · ·8· · 7 · ·15 · · ·Dodge: · ·0/25 · · ·-Healing Amp: 4294967236
Wis:· · 10· · 7 · ·17 · · ·Fort:· · ·214% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · ·0
Cha:· · 16· · 7 · ·63 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 25
DR:
Immunities: Natural Disease, Magical Disease, Super-Natural Disease, Fear, Fear, Energy Drain, Fear, Charm, Domination

Special Feats
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vistani Knife Fighter Tree


Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Paladin(1)· · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Aasimar Bond: Aasimar: Fallen Bond
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Follower of Onatar
2 · · Paladin(2)· · · ·
3 · · Paladin(3)· · · ·Standard: Child of Faith
4 · · Paladin(4)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
5 · · Paladin(5)· · · ·
6 · · Paladin(6)· · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Onatar's Forge
7 · · Paladin(7)· · · ·
8 · · Paladin(8)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
9 · · Paladin(9)· · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
10· · Paladin(10) · · ·
11· · Paladin(11) · · ·
12· · Paladin(12) · · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
13· · Paladin(13) · · ·
14· · Paladin(14) · · ·
15· · Paladin(15) · · ·Standard: Stunning Blow
16· · Paladin(16) · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
17· · Paladin(17) · · ·
18· · Paladin(18) · · ·Standard: Beloved of the Divine
19· · Paladin(19) · · ·
20· · Paladin(20) · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Power Attack
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Epic Damage Reduction
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Dire Charge
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea

Enhancements: 80 APs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aasimar - Points spent: 24
1 Core ·(1) Stronger Bonds I
2 Core ·(2) Ability I: +1 Strength
3 Core ·(1) Stronger Bonds II
4 Core ·(2) Ability II: +1 Strength
5 Core ·(1) Stronger Bonds III
6 Tier1 (1) Fight the Wicked I
7 Tier1 (2) Improved Recovery I
8 Tier2 (1) Fight the Wicked II
9 Tier3 (1) Fight The Wicked III
10 Tier2 (1) Divine Purpose: Divine Purpose: Fallen
11 Tier2 (1) Divine Resolve: Strength
12 Tier2 (1) Divine Resolve: Strength
13 Tier2 (1) Divine Resolve: Strength
14 Tier3 (2) Improved Recovery II
15 Tier4 (2) Improved Recovery III
16 Tier3 (1) Divine Charge
17 Tier3 (1) Divine Charge
18 Tier3 (1) Divine Charge
19 Tier4 (1) Ascendant Bond: Fallen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knight of the Chalice - Points spent: 41
1 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil I
2 Tier1 (2) Holy Combatant I
3 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
4 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
5 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
6 Core ·(1) Courage of Heaven
7 Tier2 (2) Adept Combatant
8 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
9 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
10 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
11 Tier3 (2) Holy Combatant II
12 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
13 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
14 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
15 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Strength
16 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Strength
17 Tier4 (2) Knight's Training
18 Tier4 (1) Censure Demons
19 Tier4 (2) Vigor of Life I
20 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil II
21 Core ·(1) Improved Courage of Heaven
22 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil III
23 Tier5 (2) Ascendancy
24 Tier5 (1) Censure Outsiders
25 Tier5 (2) Vigor of Life II
26 Tier5 (2) Avenging Attack: Avenging Cleave
27 Tier5 (1) Holy Retribution: Holy Retribution
28 Core ·(1) Champion of Good
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vistani Knife Fighter - Points spent: 15
1 Core ·(1) Knife Expertise
2 Tier1 (1) Vistani Knife Training I
3 Tier1 (1) Undead Hunter
4 Tier1 (2) Mist Stalker I
5 Core ·(1) Knife Juggler
6 Tier2 (2) Mist Stalker II
7 Tier2 (1) Haste Boost
8 Tier2 (1) Haste Boost
9 Tier2 (1) Haste Boost
10 Tier3 (2) Gifted I: +1 Strength
11 Tier3 (2) Mist Stalker III
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fatesinger - Points spent: 24
1 Core ·(0)· Repertoire
2 Core ·(0) Glitter of Fame
3 Core ·(0) Harmonic Resonance
4 Core ·(0) Intoxicating Presence
5 Core ·(0) Grandeur
6 Core ·(0) Majesty
7 Tier1 (1) First Harmonic Chord
8 Tier1 (1) First Harmonic Chord
9 Tier1 (1) First Harmonic Chord
10 Tier1 (2) Ability I: +1 Strength
11 Tier2 (2)· Ability II: +1 Strength
12 Tier2 (1) Bound Fate
13 Tier2 (1) Bound Fate
14 Tier2 (1) Bound Fate
15 Tier3 (1) Grim Fate
16 Tier3 (1) Grim Fate
17 Tier3 (1) Grim Fate
18 Tier3 (2) Ability III: +1 Strength
19 Tier4 (2) Martial Hymn
20 Tier5 (1) Bladesong
21 Tier5 (2) Ability V: +1 Strength
22 Tier6 (1) Metamagic Attunement II: Quicken
23 Tier6 (1) Turn of the Tide
24 Tier4 (2) Ability IV: +1 Strength
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spell Power · · · · · · ·Base · ·Critical Chance· · Critical Multiplier.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Acid· · · · · · · · · · · ·96 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Light/Alignment · · · · · ·96 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Cold· · · · · · · · · · · ·96 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Electric· · · · · · · · · ·96 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Evil· · · · · · · · · · · ·96 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Fire· · · · · · · · · · · ·96 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Force/Untyped · · · · · · 116 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Negative· · · · · · · · · ·99 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Physical· · · · · · · · · ·96 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Poison· · · · · · · · · · ·96 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Positive· · · · · · · · · 313 · · ·31%· · · · · · · · ·0
Repair· · · · · · · · · · ·96 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Rust· · · · · · · · · · · ·96 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
Sonic · · · · · · · · · · 120 · · · 0%· · · · · · · · ·0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spell Like / Special Abilities
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Healing Hands · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·
Lay on Hands· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·
Remove Disease· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weapon Damage
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Melee Power:· 117
Doublestrike: 59%
Strikethrough: 190%
Mainhand damage ability multiplier: 2
Offhand damage ability multiplier: 0
Off-Hand attack Chance: 20%
Fortification Bypass: 89%
Dodge Bypass: 0%
Helpless Damage bonus: 65%
Ranged Power: 81
Doubleshot Chance: 0%

Sneak Attack Attack bonus: 0
Sneak Attack Damage: 0d6+0

Main Hand: Legendary Echo of Blackrazor
On Hit· · · · ·7.00[2D6+4]+140· + (1D4 Light) * Melee Power + 1D8 Light + 2D6 Light + 3D6 Light + 5D6 Light + 7D6 Light + 9D6 Untyped
Critical 17-18 (7.00[2D6+4]+133) * 2· + 9D6 Untyped
Critical 19-20 (7.00[2D6+4]+133) * 3· + 9D6 Untyped
DR Bypass: Good, Magic, Slash
You bypass Incorpreality miss chance with this weapon
You bypass Concealment miss chance with this weapon

Tactical DCs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stunning Blow · · · · · · · · · · ·Fortitude vs 70 : 10 + Str Mod(32) + Stun(28)
Dire Charge · · · · · · · · · · · ·Fortitude vs 80 : 20 + Max Mod(Str(32), Dex(2), Con(22), Int(2), Wis(3), Cha(26)) + Stun(28)
Intimidate· · · · · · · · · · · · ·10+HD+Wis Mod vs d20 + 40 : d20 + Intimidate(40)
Diplomacy · · · · · · · · · · · · ·CR+Quest Level vs d20 + 40 : d20 + Diplomacy(40)
Bluff · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·CR+Quest Level vs d20 + 40 : d20 + Bluff(40)
Sunder· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Fortitude vs 64 : 10 + Str Mod(32) + Sunder(22)
Trip· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Balance vs 64 : 10 + Str Mod(32) + Trip(22)
Turn Undead · · · · · · · · · · · ·Creature HD vs d20 + 26 : d20 + Cha Mod(26)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Equipped Gear Set : Standard
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armor · · · · Legendary Enforcer's Coat · Drops in: Quest: Thralls of the Fungus Lord
· · · · · · · +15 Enhancement Bonus
· · · · · · · Fortification +214%
· · · · · · · Physical Sheltering +54
· · · · · · · Healing Amplification +85
· · · · · · · False Life +81
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Legendary Part of the Family
Belt· · · · · Legendary Belt of the Ram · Drops in: U48 Quest: The Thornwrite
· · · · · · · Ram's Might
· · · · · · · Speed +30%
· · · · · · · Quality Strength +5
· · · · · · · Constitution +21
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Eminence of Summer
Boots · · · · Legendary Red Dragonscale Boots · Drops in: U48 Quest: The Thornwrite
· · · · · · · Fire Shield(Hot)
· · · · · · · Seeker +21
· · · · · · · Combat Mastery +17
· · · · · · · Protection +17
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Eminence of Summer
Bracers · · · Legendary Hallowed Castigators· ·Drops in: Quest: Blown Deadline
· · · · · · · Devotion +214
· · · · · · · Healing Lore +31%
· · · · · · · Insightful Sheltering +27
· · · · · · · Efficient Metamagic - Empower Healing II
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Legendary Flamecleansed Fury
Cloak · · · · Legendary Cloak of Summer · Drops in: U48 Quest: Wake me up Inside
· · · · · · · Fire Absorption +50%
· · · · · · · Strength +21
· · · · · · · Insightful Strength +10
· · · · · · · Doublestrike +23%
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Eminence of Summer
Gloves· · · · Legendary Hammerfist· ·Drops in: Quest: Blown Deadline
· · · · · · · Insightful Doublestrike +11%
· · · · · · · Cannith Combat Infusion
· · · · · · · Seeker +21
· · · · · · · Insightful Deadly +8
· · · · · · · Blue: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Legendary Part of the Family
Goggles · · · Legendary Collective Sight· ·Drops in: Quest: Blown Deadline
· · · · · · · Quality Resistance +4
· · · · · · · Temperance of Belief
· · · · · · · Nearly Finished (SDCIWC): +21 Charisma
· · · · · · · Nearly Finished (Ins SDCIWC): +10 Insightful Charisma
· · · · · · · Blue: Empty augment slot
Helmet· · · · Legendary Crown of Butterflies· ·Drops in: U48: Quest: Immortality Lessons
· · · · · · · Crown of Summer
· · · · · · · Winged Allure
· · · · · · · Enchantment Focus 9
· · · · · · · Magical Sheltering +54
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Eminence of Spring
Necklace· · · Legendary Family Recruit Sigil· ·Drops in: Quest: House of Pain
· · · · · · · True Seeing
· · · · · · · Armor-Piercing +33
· · · · · · · Deadly +17
· · · · · · · Relentless Fury
· · · · · · · Yellow: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Legendary Part of the Family
Ring1 · · · · Legendary Lionheart Ring· ·Drops in: U48 Quest: The Thornwrite
· · · · · · · Stunning +23
· · · · · · · Action Boost Enhancement
· · · · · · · Insightful Armor-Piercing +16
· · · · · · · Insightful Constitution +10
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Eminence of Summer
Trinket · · · Legendary Battleworn Medal· ·Drops in: U46: Quest: Heart of the Problem
· · · · · · · Action Boost Enhancement
· · · · · · · Quality Charisma +5
· · · · · · · Quality Doublestrike +5%
· · · · · · · Greater Heroism
· · · · · · · Blue: Empty augment slot
Weapon1 · · · Legendary Echo of Blackrazor· ·Drops in: Quest: White Plum Mountain
· · · · · · · Damage and Type 5[2d6+4] + 15 Slash, Magic
· · · · · · · Critical Threat Range 19-20 x2
· · · · · · · +15 Enhancement Bonus
· · · · · · · Legendary Stealer of Souls
· · · · · · · Keen V
· · · · · · · Entropic 9
· · · · · · · Psychic Ward
· · · · · · · Orange: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Red: Empty augment slot
Weapon2 · · · Restricted by another item in this gear set

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Equipped Gear Set : Standard
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armor · · · · Legendary Enforcer's Coat · Drops in: Quest: Thralls of the Fungus Lord
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Legendary Part of the Family
Belt· · · · · Legendary Belt of the Ram · Drops in: U48 Quest: The Thornwrite
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Eminence of Summer
Boots · · · · Legendary Red Dragonscale Boots · Drops in: U48 Quest: The Thornwrite
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Eminence of Summer
Bracers · · · Legendary Hallowed Castigators· ·Drops in: Quest: Blown Deadline
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Legendary Flamecleansed Fury
Cloak · · · · Legendary Cloak of Summer · Drops in: U48 Quest: Wake me up Inside
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Eminence of Summer
Gloves· · · · Legendary Hammerfist· ·Drops in: Quest: Blown Deadline
· · · · · · · Blue: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Legendary Part of the Family
Goggles · · · Legendary Collective Sight· ·Drops in: Quest: Blown Deadline
· · · · · · · Nearly Finished (SDCIWC): +21 Charisma
· · · · · · · Nearly Finished (Ins SDCIWC): +10 Insightful Charisma
· · · · · · · Blue: Empty augment slot
Helmet· · · · Legendary Crown of Butterflies· ·Drops in: U48: Quest: Immortality Lessons
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Eminence of Spring
Necklace· · · Legendary Family Recruit Sigil· ·Drops in: Quest: House of Pain
· · · · · · · Yellow: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Legendary Part of the Family
Ring1 · · · · Legendary Lionheart Ring· ·Drops in: U48 Quest: The Thornwrite
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Eminence of Summer
Trinket · · · Legendary Battleworn Medal· ·Drops in: U46: Quest: Heart of the Problem
· · · · · · · Blue: Empty augment slot
Weapon1 · · · Legendary Echo of Blackrazor· ·Drops in: Quest: White Plum Mountain
· · · · · · · Orange: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Red: Empty augment slot
Weapon2 · · · Restricted by another item in this gear set

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[SpartanKiller13]

Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
3 · · Paladin(3)· · · ·Standard: Child of Faith
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Power Attack

Before level 10 or so, Power Attack is better than Precision. Much past that and Precision is better, to a pretty significant point by epics. I'd definitely be taking one of them before level 24 though lol, and if you're going for 30 IMO it should be Precision.


Aasimar - Points spent: 24
Knight of the Chalice - Points spent: 41
Vistani Knife Fighter - Points spent: 15

Paladin without Sacred Defender seems a bit dubious to me? YMMV of course, but I struggle to imagine skipping it entirely. +3 LoH, 25 PRR/MRR, & 20% HP (or +6 Con in epics) is a lot of survivability for 13 AP lol. You can 41/31/8 and grab Haste Boost still if that's a concern (getting Core 5 from SaD and +6 Str on the way) but rule one of dealing DPS is being alive lol.


Str Mod(32)

74 Strength seems a bit low? With like 40 from gear and 30 from base + tomes + levelups I feel like you should easily be in the 90's at least.


Equipped Gear Set

Your original goal was a build to "carry you to cap" so I'd worry more about heroic gear. Probably a ML15 set (mostly Sharn) because that'll get you all the way to 29?

[Sparty]

Thank You...

Here's the final build:
41/31/8 Split
Precission at Lvl 3


Character name: My Aasimar Pal
Classes: 20 Paladin, 10 Epic
Race: Aasimar · · · · · · ·Alignment: Lawful Good

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · ·0% · · ·Displacement:· · 0%
Str:· · 17· · 7 · ·73 · · ·HP:· · · ·1390 · · ·AC:· · 98
Dex:· · 13· · 7 · ·43 · · ·PRR: · · · 151
Con:· · 14· · 7 · ·56 · · ·MRR: · · · ·82 · · ·+Healing Amp:· ·190
Int:· · 10· · 7 · ·19 · · ·Dodge: · 11/25 · · ·-Healing Amp: 4294967236
Wis:· · 10· · 7 · ·19 · · ·Fort:· · ·224% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · ·0
Cha:· · 16· · 7 · ·66 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 25
DR:
Immunities: Natural Disease, Magical Disease, Super-Natural Disease, Fear, Energy Drain, Charm, Domination

Special Feats
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vistani Knife Fighter Tree


Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Paladin(1)· · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Aasimar Bond: Aasimar: Fallen Bond
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Follower of Onatar
2 · · Paladin(2)· · · ·
3 · · Paladin(3)· · · ·Standard: Precision
4 · · Paladin(4)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
5 · · Paladin(5)· · · ·
6 · · Paladin(6)· · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Onatar's Forge
7 · · Paladin(7)· · · ·
8 · · Paladin(8)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
9 · · Paladin(9)· · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
10· · Paladin(10) · · ·
11· · Paladin(11) · · ·
12· · Paladin(12) · · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
13· · Paladin(13) · · ·
14· · Paladin(14) · · ·
15· · Paladin(15) · · ·Standard: Toughness
16· · Paladin(16) · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
17· · Paladin(17) · · ·
18· · Paladin(18) · · ·Standard: Force of Personality
19· · Paladin(19) · · ·
20· · Paladin(20) · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Power Attack
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Epic Damage Reduction
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Dire Charge
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea

Enhancements: 80 APs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aasimar - Points spent: 8
1 Core ·(1) Stronger Bonds I
2 Tier1 (2) Improved Recovery I
3 Core ·(2) Ability I: +1 Charisma
4 Tier2 (1) Divine Purpose: Divine Purpose: Fallen
5 Core ·(1) Stronger Bonds II
6 Tier2 (1) Divine Resolve: Charisma
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knight of the Chalice - Points spent: 41
1 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil I
2 Tier1 (2) Holy Combatant I
3 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
4 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
5 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
6 Core ·(1) Courage of Heaven
7 Tier2 (2) Adept Combatant
8 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
9 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
10 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
11 Tier3 (2) Holy Combatant II
12 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
13 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
14 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
15 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Strength
16 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Strength
17 Tier4 (2) Knight's Training
18 Tier4 (1) Censure Demons
19 Tier4 (2) Vigor of Life I
20 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil II
21 Core ·(1) Improved Courage of Heaven
22 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil III
23 Tier5 (2) Ascendancy
24 Tier5 (1) Censure Outsiders
25 Tier5 (2) Vigor of Life II
26 Tier5 (2) Avenging Attack: Avenging Cleave
27 Tier5 (1) Holy Retribution: Holy Retribution
28 Core ·(1) Champion of Good
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacred Defender - Points spent: 31
1 Core ·(1) Holy Bastion
2 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
3 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
4 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
5 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
6 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
7 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
8 Tier1 (1) Sacred Armor Mastery
9 Tier1 (1) Sacred Armor Mastery
10 Tier1 (1) Sacred Armor Mastery
11 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
12 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
13 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
14 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Tenacious Defense
15 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Tenacious Defense
16 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Tenacious Defense
17 Core ·(1) Sacred Defence
18 Core ·(1) Divine Righteousness
19 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Constitution
20 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Constitution
21 Tier4 (1) Swift Defense
22 Tier4 (1) Reinforced Defense I: Reinforced Armor
23 Tier4 (1) Reinforced Defense I: Reinforced Armor
24 Tier4 (1) Reinforced Defense I: Reinforced Armor
25 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
26 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
27 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
28 Core ·(1) Redemption
29 Core ·(1) Glorious Stand
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Active Destiny Tree
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Legendary Dreadnought - Points spent: 24
1 Core ·(0) Shrug Off Punishment
2 Core ·(0) Action Hero
3 Core ·(0) Unstoppable
4 Core ·(0) Unmovable
5 Core ·(0) Thick Skinned
6 Core ·(0) Combat Brute
7 Tier1 (1) Legendary Tactics
8 Tier1 (1) Legendary Tactics
9 Tier1 (1) Legendary Tactics
10 Tier1 (1) Extra Action Boost
11 Tier1 (1) Extra Action Boost
12 Tier1 (1) Extra Action Boost
13 Tier1 (1) Action Boost Attack
14 Tier2 (1) Action Boost Power
15 Tier2 (1) Momentum Swing
16 Tier2 (1) Momentum Swing
17 Tier2 (1) Momentum Swing
18 Tier3 (2) Lay Waste
19 Tier3 (1) Action Boost Haste
20 Tier3 (1) Action Boost Haste
21 Tier3 (1) Action Boost Haste
22 Tier4 (2) Unusual Tactics
23 Tier5 (2) Devastating Critical
24 Tier5 (2) Advancing Blows
25 Tier6 (2) Master's Blitz: Masters Blitz: PRR
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[SpartanKiller13]

3 · · Paladin(3)· · · ·Standard: Precision
15· · Paladin(15) · · ·Standard: Toughness
18· · Paladin(18) · · ·Standard: Force of Personality
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Power Attack


Power Attack and Precision are both offensive stances, so you can only use one at a time. It can be worth having both to swap between, but Precision is really solid to just leave on (given there's a lot of enemies with high Fort like undead, constructs, and Reapers). Personally I'd grab Epic Toughness over Power Attack. You could also quite reasonably grab Quicken, Extend, or even just deity feats for +damage.

Force of Personality boosts your Will saves an insane amount, but you already get Divine Grace boosting all your saves by your Cha bonus so you might be fine without it? See what your expected Will saves are :)


Legendary Dreadnought

I'd recommend trying both LD and Fatesinger. LD is really solid if you can maintain Blitz, but that can be hard depending on the quest etc. Fatesinger is generally really good for Paladins and melees, and definitely better if you can't maintain Blitz.

[Sparty]

Thanks SpartanK

I didnt notice that blitz was a 5 min cool down..YIKES
I worked up Fatesinger and it is better as you pointed out.
2wf at 18 -- Epic Toughness at 24

Here it is...


Classes: 20 Paladin, 10 Epic
Race: Aasimar · · · · · · ·Alignment: Lawful Good

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · ·0% · · ·Displacement:· · 0%
Str:· · 17· · 7 · ·79 · · ·HP:· · · ·1379 · · ·AC:· · 91
Dex:· · 13· · 7 · ·44 · · ·PRR: · · · 151
Con:· · 14· · 7 · ·57 · · ·MRR: · · · ·82 · · ·+Healing Amp:· ·190
Int:· · 10· · 7 · ·20 · · ·Dodge: · 11/25 · · ·-Healing Amp: 4294967236
Wis:· · 10· · 7 · ·20 · · ·Fort:· · ·224% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · ·0
Cha:· · 16· · 7 · ·67 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 25

Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Paladin(1)· · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Aasimar Bond: Aasimar: Fallen Bond
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Follower of Onatar
2 · · Paladin(2)· · · ·
3 · · Paladin(3)· · · ·Standard: Precision
4 · · Paladin(4)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
5 · · Paladin(5)· · · ·
6 · · Paladin(6)· · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Onatar's Forge
7 · · Paladin(7)· · · ·
8 · · Paladin(8)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
9 · · Paladin(9)· · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
10· · Paladin(10) · · ·
11· · Paladin(11) · · ·
12· · Paladin(12) · · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
13· · Paladin(13) · · ·
14· · Paladin(14) · · ·
15· · Paladin(15) · · ·Standard: Toughness
16· · Paladin(16) · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
17· · Paladin(17) · · ·
18· · Paladin(18) · · ·Standard: Two Weapon Fighting
19· · Paladin(19) · · ·
20· · Paladin(20) · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Epic Toughness
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Epic Damage Reduction
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Dire Charge
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea

Enhancements: 80 APs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aasimar - Points spent: 8
1 Core ·(1) Stronger Bonds I
2 Tier1 (2) Improved Recovery I
3 Core ·(2) Ability I: +1 Charisma
4 Tier2 (1) Divine Purpose: Divine Purpose: Fallen
5 Core ·(1) Stronger Bonds II
6 Tier2 (1) Divine Resolve: Charisma
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knight of the Chalice - Points spent: 41
1 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil I
2 Tier1 (2) Holy Combatant I
3 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
4 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
5 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
6 Core ·(1) Courage of Heaven
7 Tier2 (2) Adept Combatant
8 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
9 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
10 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
11 Tier3 (2) Holy Combatant II
12 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
13 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
14 Tier3 (2) Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite
15 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Strength
16 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Strength
17 Tier4 (2) Knight's Training
18 Tier4 (1) Censure Demons
19 Tier4 (2) Vigor of Life I
20 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil II
21 Core ·(1) Improved Courage of Heaven
22 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil III
23 Tier5 (2) Ascendancy
24 Tier5 (1) Censure Outsiders
25 Tier5 (2) Vigor of Life II
26 Tier5 (2) Avenging Attack: Avenging Cleave
27 Tier5 (1) Holy Retribution: Holy Retribution
28 Core ·(1) Champion of Good
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacred Defender - Points spent: 31
1 Core ·(1) Holy Bastion
2 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
3 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
4 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
5 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
6 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
7 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
8 Tier1 (1) Sacred Armor Mastery
9 Tier1 (1) Sacred Armor Mastery
10 Tier1 (1) Sacred Armor Mastery
11 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
12 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
13 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
14 Tier2 (1) Bulwark Aura
15 Tier2 (1) Bulwark Aura
16 Tier2 (1) Bulwark Aura
17 Core ·(1) Sacred Defence
18 Core ·(1) Divine Righteousness
19 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Tenacious Defense
20 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Tenacious Defense
21 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Tenacious Defense
22 Core ·(1) Redemption
23 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Constitution
24 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Constitution
25 Tier4 (1) Swift Defense
26 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
27 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
28 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
29 Core ·(1) Glorious Stand
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Active Destiny Tree
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fatesinger - Points spent: 24
1 Core ·(0)· Repertoire
2 Core ·(0) Glitter of Fame
3 Core ·(0) Harmonic Resonance
4 Core ·(0) Intoxicating Presence
5 Core ·(0) Grandeur
6 Core ·(0) Majesty
7 Tier1 (1) First Harmonic Chord
8 Tier1 (1) First Harmonic Chord
9 Tier1 (1) First Harmonic Chord
10 Tier1 (2) Ability I: +1 Strength
11 Tier2 (2)· Ability II: +1 Strength
12 Tier2 (1) Bound Fate
13 Tier2 (1) Bound Fate
14 Tier2 (1) Bound Fate
15 Tier3 (1) Grim Fate
16 Tier3 (1) Grim Fate
17 Tier3 (1) Grim Fate
18 Tier3 (2) Ability III: +1 Strength
19 Tier4 (2) Martial Hymn
20 Tier5 (1) Bladesong
21 Tier5 (2) Ability V: +1 Strength
22 Tier6 (1) Metamagic Attunement II: Quicken
23 Tier6 (1) Turn of the Tide
24 Tier4 (2) Ability IV: +1 Strength

[SpartanKiller13]

Thanks SpartanK

I didnt notice that blitz was a 5 min cool down..YIKES
I worked up Fatesinger and it is better as you pointed out.
2wf at 18 -- Epic Toughness at 24

Fellow Spart :)

Blitz is pretty awesome for continuous fighting where you can maintain stacks - you can get 100% uptime in specific scenarios and in those LD is king. 88 MP, 30 PRR, and spammable action boosts is a great combo. That said, there's a lot of content where that 5 minute CD hurts and if you can't maintain stacks you're at 18 MP and are sad lol. Action Hero is still really good with Prowess, and LD is ok, but Fatesinger gets 60 MP constantly and free Martial Hymn for another 10 MP - and the Epic Moment is just awesome. Also singing for a bit of extra free damage :)

Perfect TWF at 28 is for the 5% Doublestrike which applies to all combat styles. Not sure why you'd take base TWF at 18? I feel like I've missed something, sorry.

[Sparty]

My oversight with twf at 18, I wasn't paying attention
I had force of personality (FoP) at Lvl 18 and it was pointed out that it was overkill.
My will saves are adequate (76) and unchanged with FoP so out it went.
I put in Stunning Blow instead.

Have I missed anything else?

[SpartanKiller13]

My oversight with twf at 18, I wasn't paying attention
I had force of personality (FoP) at Lvl 18 and it was pointed out that it was overkill.
My will saves are adequate (76) and unchanged with FoP so out it went.
I put in Stunning Blow instead.

Have I missed anything else?

Totally fair, just figured I'd ask.

Otherwise looks good to me! And if not send me an angry PM in a month :p

THF Paladin's in a really good spot right now though so I'd be surprised if you do.

[Ghop15]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone could help me out. This life me and my buddy having been playing together, and he fulfills the tank role as a pure paladin while I fulfill the trapper role as a pure rogue.

Next life he wants to play as a Sorcerer caster and while a pure rogue is capable of fulfilling the trapper role they can't do the tank one.

I love playing as melee, so I was wondering if it would be possible to make a character that could do the trapper role as well as a tank role?

I don't have any tomes but I will have access to a 34 point build when I reincarnate next life. Is it possible to do this with melee or is this trying to fulfill too many roles at once?

Thank you in advance for your suggestions and help:)

[SpartanKiller13]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone could help me out. This life me and my buddy having been playing together, and he fulfills the tank role as a pure paladin while I fulfill the trapper role as a pure rogue.

Next life he wants to play as a Sorcerer caster and while a pure rogue is capable of fulfilling the trapper role they can't do the tank one.

I love playing as melee, so I was wondering if it would be possible to make a character that could do the trapper role as well as a tank role?

I don't have any tomes but I will have access to a 34 point build when I reincarnate next life. Is it possible to do this with melee or is this trying to fulfill too many roles at once?

Thank you in advance for your suggestions and help:)

Do you own Artificer (https://ddowiki.com/page/Artificer)? Seems like the easiest solution. Artificer can do traps natively, and one of the Artificer trees - Renegade Mastermaker (https://ddowiki.com/page/Renegade_Mastermaker_enhancements), is literally a melee/tank tree. You're pretty well stuck to SWF with a runearm, but that's pretty fine :)

Ideally you can double down and go Warforged, but if you don't own that you can do pretty well with Construct Essence instead to allow you to repair yourself. Also if your buddy is running a Sorc they'll be able to heal you as needed (mostly like if you get cc'ed or for Reaper).

If you don't own Artificer but want to, consider Secrets of the Artificer pack; for 650 DDO points if you can Elite those quests you can unlock Artificer for that character a bit cheaper than the account-wide purchase of the class (995 points). Otherwise you can farm out the challenges and get in on some LN raids to unlock it for free (https://ddowiki.com/page/House_Cannith#Earning_Artificer) (note that section predates Legendary Lord of Blades/Master Artificer so it's doable without the pack now), but that would probably require you to get close to level 30 (which I'd also recommend if you own Epic Destinies, Epic Reincarnation + Heroic Reincarnation is really nice).

If that's not interesting or available you're then left with some tanky build that has /2+ Rogue and enough Int/skill points to afford trap skills. Followed up by: do you own Harper Agent (https://ddowiki.com/page/Harper_Agent_enhancements)? If so, you can run nearly any melee/ranged and Int-max using Harper to get to-hit and damage. If not, it gets a lot more difficult to manage gear/build choices to still be able to trap while having viable tankiness and DPS. Maybe a Pale Master Wizard/Rogue?

If you're close to it, I'd highly recommend farming out 1750 favor before reincarnating. This gives a free +2 tome of your choice which adds up pretty fast across a few lives (and once you're mostly running Elite on a 3+ life toon you'll probably be in the ~1400 favor range by level 20 anyway).

-----

I'll be happy to detail any of these or other options a bit more once I hear back from ya.

[Ghop15]

Do you own Artificer (https://ddowiki.com/page/Artificer)? Seems like the easiest solution. Artificer can do traps natively, and one of the Artificer trees - Renegade Mastermaker (https://ddowiki.com/page/Renegade_Mastermaker_enhancements), is literally a melee/tank tree. You're pretty well stuck to SWF with a runearm, but that's pretty fine :)

Ideally you can double down and go Warforged, but if you don't own that you can do pretty well with Construct Essence instead to allow you to repair yourself. Also if your buddy is running a Sorc they'll be able to heal you as needed (mostly like if you get cc'ed or for Reaper).

If you don't own Artificer but want to, consider Secrets of the Artificer pack; for 650 DDO points if you can Elite those quests you can unlock Artificer for that character a bit cheaper than the account-wide purchase of the class (995 points). Otherwise you can farm out the challenges and get in on some LN raids to unlock it for free (https://ddowiki.com/page/House_Cannith#Earning_Artificer) (note that section predates Legendary Lord of Blades/Master Artificer so it's doable without the pack now), but that would probably require you to get close to level 30 (which I'd also recommend if you own Epic Destinies, Epic Reincarnation + Heroic Reincarnation is really nice).

If that's not interesting or available you're then left with some tanky build that has /2+ Rogue and enough Int/skill points to afford trap skills. Followed up by: do you own Harper Agent (https://ddowiki.com/page/Harper_Agent_enhancements)? If so, you can run nearly any melee/ranged and Int-max using Harper to get to-hit and damage. If not, it gets a lot more difficult to manage gear/build choices to still be able to trap while having viable tankiness and DPS. Maybe a Pale Master Wizard/Rogue?

If you're close to it, I'd highly recommend farming out 1750 favor before reincarnating. This gives a free +2 tome of your choice which adds up pretty fast across a few lives (and once you're mostly running Elite on a 3+ life toon you'll probably be in the ~1400 favor range by level 20 anyway).

-----

I'll be happy to detail any of these or other options a bit more once I hear back from ya.

Interesting. I have the harper tree since I am VIP. Would it be possible to do a Fighter 18/Rogue 2 with a focus on the Stalwart Defender and Vanguard trees? Of course I'd put points needed into harper agent for Int to hit and damage. I like the idea of using a bastard sword/dwarven war axe and shield while being able to do traps.

[magaiti]

TYWA Eldritch Knight

Dwarf, 1 rogue 1 fighter 18 wizard // ideally you'd want wizard 20, but since you need trapping...
Stats: CON primary, INT secondary.

18 AP in Dwarf, grab 5% HP and TYWA (CON to damage).
14+ AP in Palemaster for undead form, negative heal amp. Skeleton Knight can off-tank as well
4 ap in Kensei for Haste Boost
40+ AP in Eldritch Knight. Grab INT to hit, Knight's Transformation, 5 cores, all of T5

Feats:
1) SWF
3) insightful reflexes
6) Toughness
9) Knights Training / Toughness
12) Toughness
15) ISWF
18) Improved Critical Slashing
21) GSWF
24) Epic Toughness
26) PSWF
27) EDR
28) Elusive Target
29) Dire Charge
30) Overwhelming Critical, Scion of Earth

start with rogue level, go wizard until you hit 7 BAB, then take fighter level and Offhand Versatility (requires 8 BAB)

armor: heavy as soon as you get fighter level

Weapon: dwarven war axe for some strikethrough, or battleaxe for better dps vs single target (with Knight's Training feat)
Offhand: orb or nothing

[magaiti]

TYWA Swashbuckler:
Dwarf, 12 bard, 6 fighter, 2 rogue

Stats: Con primary, int secondary. 13 dex for Precision.

AP (80): 18 Dwarf, 34 Swashbuckler (Needle, Exploit Weakness), 11 kensai (crit multi), 13 Stalwart (+6 con in stance), 3 Harper (int to hit), 1 Vanguard or Warchanter (+1 con)


gear: Light armor, buckler, handaxe

[SpartanKiller13]

Interesting. I have the harper tree since I am VIP. Would it be possible to do a Fighter 18/Rogue 2 with a focus on the Stalwart Defender and Vanguard trees? Of course I'd put points needed into harper agent for Int to hit and damage. I like the idea of using a bastard sword/dwarven war axe and shield while being able to do traps.

(VIP can unlock Artificer ez since you get free pack access)

Sure, that would work pretty well, but it'll be a lot easier if you can pick up a favor tome for Strength. Bsword/DAxe builds want to use THF line (https://ddowiki.com/page/Two_Handed_Fighting), which requires 17 Strength (includes tomes) for all the feats. Otherwise you mostly want to max Con and Int, with level-ups into either as desired (or start 16 Str and put one level-up there to save build points). You could also pretty reasonably go Strength-max (better Stunning Blow mostly) but you'd need to itemize a lot more carefully and/or swap Int items on for trapping; also skill points are tighter if Str-max over Int.

As a mainly Fighter build you get approximately one billion feats, but here's ones I'd be looking for:

EWP: Bastard Sword, Two Hand Fighting x3, Improved Shield Bash, Shield Mastery x3, Insightful Reflexes, ICritical: Slashing, ICritical: Bludgeoning, Magical Training, Power Attack, Stunning Blow, and Heavy Armor & Tactics feats.

I'd recommend taking Rogue at levels 1 & 8 or so; you get 4x skill points at level 1, so by taking Rogue at first level you get an extra 18 skill points - and the skills you want aren't cross-class. Rogue 2 is just to re-fill out skills and grab Evasion (try to get Insightful Reflexes around this time).

AP wise probably into Vanguard a bit, then Stalwart for 25 PRR/MRR and 20% HP, then into Harper for Int-to-stuff and KtA. Make sure you pick up +Spell Points in Harper, so you can keep KtA up longer for damage and stun DC's :)

[Ghop15]

TYWA Eldritch Knight

Dwarf, 1 rogue 1 fighter 18 wizard // ideally you'd want wizard 20, but since you need trapping...
Stats: CON primary, INT secondary.

18 AP in Dwarf, grab 5% HP and TYWA (CON to damage).
14+ AP in Palemaster for undead form, negative heal amp. Skeleton Knight can off-tank as well
4 ap in Kensei for Haste Boost
40+ AP in Eldritch Knight. Grab INT to hit, Knight's Transformation, 5 cores, all of T5

Feats:
1) SWF
3) insightful reflexes
6) Toughness
9) Knights Training / Toughness
12) Toughness
15) ISWF
18) Improved Critical Slashing
21) GSWF
24) Epic Toughness
26) PSWF
27) EDR
28) Elusive Target
29) Dire Charge
30) Overwhelming Critical, Scion of Earth

start with rogue level, go wizard until you hit 7 BAB, then take fighter level and Offhand Versatility (requires 8 BAB)

armor: heavy as soon as you get fighter level

Weapon: dwarven war axe for some strikethrough, or battleaxe for better dps vs single target (with Knight's Training feat)
Offhand: orb or nothing

Cool. The thing is I would prefer to focus on intelligence instead of con for trapping purposes. Also, it would take 28 AP (16 in Dwarf and 12 in EK) to get my to-hit and damage for stats, which would make leveling really hard. So basically take this build but with a focus purely on INT with points in Harper Agent instead. I think I would go with battle axe since I get a cleave from Eldricth knight and don't have the Strength for THF.

Thank you so much:)

[Ghop15]

(VIP can unlock Artificer ez since you get free pack access)

Sure, that would work pretty well, but it'll be a lot easier if you can pick up a favor tome for Strength. Bsword/DAxe builds want to use THF line (https://ddowiki.com/page/Two_Handed_Fighting), which requires 17 Strength (includes tomes) for all the feats. Otherwise you mostly want to max Con and Int, with level-ups into either as desired (or start 16 Str and put one level-up there to save build points). You could also pretty reasonably go Strength-max (better Stunning Blow mostly) but you'd need to itemize a lot more carefully and/or swap Int items on for trapping; also skill points are tighter if Str-max over Int.

As a mainly Fighter build you get approximately one billion feats, but here's ones I'd be looking for:

EWP: Bastard Sword, Two Hand Fighting x3, Improved Shield Bash, Shield Mastery x3, Insightful Reflexes, ICritical: Slashing, ICritical: Bludgeoning, Magical Training, Power Attack, Stunning Blow, and Heavy Armor & Tactics feats.

I'd recommend taking Rogue at levels 1 & 8 or so; you get 4x skill points at level 1, so by taking Rogue at first level you get an extra 18 skill points - and the skills you want aren't cross-class. Rogue 2 is just to re-fill out skills and grab Evasion (try to get Insightful Reflexes around this time).

AP wise probably into Vanguard a bit, then Stalwart for 25 PRR/MRR and 20% HP, then into Harper for Int-to-stuff and KtA. Make sure you pick up +Spell Points in Harper, so you can keep KtA up longer for damage and stun DC's :)

These are great options too. I'll probably get a +2 tome from favor (I'm at level 15 now so this is still a ways off) so that would cover the Strength for THF and then I would just focus on INT. You and magaiti have both given me a lot of options, so thank you so much for all your help:)

[Ryukendo]

Yo! So, I heard rumors of it, but wanted to see if there was some sort of Paladin/Monk build going around?

Also, I recently unlocked Bladeforged and want to do some sort of mash up to get said Paladin/Monk/etc. going on there. I find the concept interesting, exciting, and want to see if I can make it where I can go around greatswording stuff with one. Anyone able to help on this?

[magaiti]

Yo! So, I heard rumors of it, but wanted to see if there was some sort of Paladin/Monk build going around?

Also, I recently unlocked Bladeforged and want to do some sort of mash up to get said Paladin/Monk/etc. going on there. I find the concept interesting, exciting, and want to see if I can make it where I can go around greatswording stuff with one. Anyone able to help on this?

If you want greatswording, paladin 20 works best.

There's 14pal/6monk build, but it's dual-wielding longswords. Pretty much flavor build, but works reasonably well as leveling build (if you like twf), due to easily obtainable leveling longswords with enhanced critical profiles (Nightforge Avenger Blade, Oathblade / Drow Longsword of the Weapon Master)

[SpartanKiller13]

Yo! So, I heard rumors of it, but wanted to see if there was some sort of Paladin/Monk build going around?

Also, I recently unlocked Bladeforged and want to do some sort of mash up to get said Paladin/Monk/etc. going on there. I find the concept interesting, exciting, and want to see if I can make it where I can go around greatswording stuff with one. Anyone able to help on this?

Well, I haven't heard any of the rumors, so do ya have some more details on those; like what sort of Paladin/Monk split and what's the theory? TWF with Whirling Steel Strike (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/512034-U45-TWF-Paladin-18-monk-2-(longswords-Whirling-Steel-strike-build)) is the only Paladin/Monk build I can find recently (16 months old). THF stick build? Why that split though?

Is this a build for leveling? Endgame? For endgame it's a lot harder to give up the KotC capstone and the option for Greater Defender stance. For leveling maybe a THF quarterstaff build? Monk for the bonus feat and stance options vs Rogue for cheap Haste Boost and the same Quick Strike?

Bladeforged locks you into an epics build (since 15-30), but later on your low MRR will start to hurt (since you can't take any body feats without uncentering and are thus capped at 50). Evasion will help somewhat as long as you keep your Cha up, but without Dex investment (or Int with Insightful Reflexes) you'll probably be failing a lot of Reflex saves endgame which hurts really bad with 50 MRR. You could have pretty crazy sustain overall though, but there's a bit of overlap between Reconstruct and LoH, depending on your Cha stat.

14/6 Paladin/Monk THF? Using Henshin T5 and Zeal from Paladin? You get a lot of free party sustain from Shadows, and Void Strike is fun with Strikethrough. Not sure it wouldn't be better with KotC T5 though, unless party sustain is the goal.

Last time I went for a Monk splash was back when Henshin gave 10 MP per core lol.

Greatswording on a Monk split requires 5+ Fighter and T5 Kensei enhancement: One with the Blade (https://ddowiki.com/page/Kensei_enhancements#Tier_Five) otherwise you'd be stuck uncentered which confuses me even more :p

And then what's the point of Monk?

[WarDestroyer]

14/6 Paladin/Monk THF? Using Henshin T5 and Zeal from Paladin? You get a lot of free party sustain from Shadows, and Void Strike is fun with Strikethrough. Not sure it wouldn't be better with KotC T5 though, unless party sustain is the goal.

I thought of running this as a Bladeforged with Spear of the Mournlands, mostly for flavour. probably a 14/5/1 split with rogue for 15% attack speed. Or something else.





Greatswording on a Monk split requires 5+ Fighter and T5 Kensei enhancement



Crazy idea is using https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Mirana_of_the_Flame as a wood elf. Probably 18/2 in this case, the flame vuln is Henshin works with Mirana.

This is a meta TWF paladin build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522551-Reaper-endgame-TWF-Paladin-14-Ranger-5-Monk-1

[SpartanKiller13]

Crazy idea is using https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Mirana_of_the_Flame as a wood elf. Probably 18/2 in this case, the flame vuln is Henshin works with Mirana.

This is a meta TWF paladin build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522551-Reaper-endgame-TWF-Paladin-14-Ranger-5-Monk-1

In my experience most people looking for a build are looking to level with it. I could be wrong, but if so that's an important detail to include when detailing your desired specs :) A build around a ML29 raid-only weapon is pretty much limited to more experienced vets, and your leveling will be a bit interesting (like a build around Eidolon). Also then you're stuck with a Wis build, which is really weird with a Paladin IMO? You'd be super MAD.

I feel like calling that meta is a bit of a stretch? Have you seen a single TWF Paladin in-game in the past three months? YMMV of course. I'd expect that build to be strong with a lot of investment (like Gliga1 has) but it really requires gear swaps/lots of experience/good party members to cover some of the weaknesses (such as 50-60 MRR) which IMO leave it as a strong niche but not exactly a meta build.

[WarDestroyer]

A build around a ML29 raid-only weapon is pretty much limited to more experienced vets, and your leveling will be a bit interesting (like a build around Eidolon)

I feel like calling that meta is a bit of a stretch?

As I said, it's a crazy idea, but probably a bad one to be sure! And yep, this isn't "meta", rather I meant that one of the best TWF Paladins available is through a 15/5 or 14/5/1 split.

[Merfyn]

Strimtom's video & a couple of discussions were exactly what I was thinking of.

I've tended to use the dual box as extra fire support, including dragging a henchman healer... considering that a pack rat is my spirit animal, not only do I use the 2nd toon to open locks & provide buffs but it also yields double the collectables and chest contents.

If it can supplement my main with firepower it's all for the better.

So Tiefling Scoundrel was on sale and I picked it up for a 3rd account I created to grab the "all adventure packs" offer, with a mind to try it out in support of the concept I originally asked for here.

To recap, I wanted a dual (now triple) box support bard that won't go into combat unless I'm using it to try recovering from a party wipe or some respawn manages to come after it. It won't be in a backpack; the intent is to use buffs & bard song plus be able to possibly provide trap/lock solutions if the main account(s) don't have rogue or artificer.

This is cribbed shamelessly from magaiti 's 1st-life Support Bard (trapper/warchanter/spellsinger) (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/509689-1st-life-Support-Bard-(trapper-warchanter-spellsinger)?p=6446520#post6446520) because I thought he did a fine job and code reuse is the mark of a good programmer.

Comments & suggestions would be appreciated; I think I'm going to make one of these per server. I don't have the wherewithal for anything fancy - no extra enhancement trees, no Warlock, Artificer, Druid, or FvS.

Please be gentle; it's my first time.

Alignment: Neutral or Neutral Good
Race: Tiefling (Scoundrel - Iconic)
Bard 13, Rogue 2

Level Order:
1. Bard 6. Rogue 11. Bard
2. Rogue 7. Bard 12. Bard
3. Bard 8. Bard 13. Bard
4. Bard 9. Bard 14. Bard
5. Bard 10. Bard 15. Bard

Stats 32pt Level Up
---- --------
Strength 8 4: INT
Dexterity 14 8: INT
Constitution 14 12: INT
Intelligence 16
Wisdom 8
Charisma 16

Skills (very sketchy since I made changes due to original plan being human)
B R B B B R B B B B B B B B B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
------------------------------------------------------------
Perform 4 2 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Concent 4 2 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Disable 5 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Search 2 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Bluff 4 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Diplo 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Balance 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Hide 4 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 15
UMD 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Open Lo 1 3 4
Jump 4 4
Swim 3 3
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------

Feats
1 : Single Weapon Fighting
3 : Precision
6 : Force of Personality
9 : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12 : Improved Critical: Slashing (see note below)
15 : Improved Shield Mastery

Enhancements (56 AP)

Warchanter (22 AP)
• Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism, Fighting Spirit
1. Inspired Bravery III, Poetic Edda III, Rough and Ready III
2. Iced Edges III
3. Ironskin Chant III, Frozen Fury I, Charisma
4. Reckless Chant I

Spellsinger (16 AP)
• Spellsinger, Music of the Sewers, Music of the Dead
1. Studies: Magical III, Lingering Songs I
2. Sharp Note I, Wand and Scroll Mastery III
3. Raucous Refrain I, Spell Song Trance, Charisma

Swashbuckler (12 AP)
• Confidence, Swashbuckling
1. On Your Toes I, Tavern Shanties III
2. Fast Movement, Sword Dance I
3. Smooth Flourishes (charisma to damage)

Tiefling Scoundrel (6 AP)
• Bloodsong, Charisma, Bloodsong, Charisma

Gear is default Tiefling Scoundrel, obviously - magaiti's build presumed use of a Swashbuckler from CC. That would make quite a difference with effective use, but this is intended to be a "shake & bake" extra.

The only other screw-up is that the default Scoundrel weapon is a rapier but I expected to get a slasher of some kind instead. Not sure if that's a bad move.

I'll clean this up after any feedback, particularly point allocation.

EDIT UGH, Formatting removed spaces...

[SpartanKiller13]

To recap, I wanted a dual (now triple) box support bard that won't go into combat unless I'm using it to try recovering from a party wipe or some respawn manages to come after it. It won't be in a backpack; the intent is to use buffs & bard song plus be able to possibly provide trap/lock solutions if the main account(s) don't have rogue or artificer.

Class: Bard 13, Rogue 2
Stats: 8/14/14/16/8/16

Feats:
1 : Single Weapon Fighting
3 : Precision
6 : Force of Personality
9 : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12 : Improved Critical: Slashing (see note below)
15 : Improved Shield Mastery

Warchanter (22 AP)
4. Reckless Chant I

Spellsinger (16 AP)

Swashbuckler (12 AP)
3. Smooth Flourishes (charisma to damage)

Tiefling Scoundrel (6 AP)

Gear is default Tiefling Scoundrel, obviously - magaiti's build presumed use of a Swashbuckler from CC. That would make quite a difference with effective use, but this is intended to be a "shake & bake" extra. The only other screw-up is that the default Scoundrel weapon is a rapier but I expected to get a slasher of some kind instead. Not sure if that's a bad move.

I'd definitely recommend Spellsinger T4 Sustaining Song. It'll provide a HoT effect (heals every ~9 seconds) that works across the dungeon (as long as your songs last) which is invaluable for a buffer IMO. Warchanter Core 4 is often stronger when you're actively playing the Bard, but it's an Aria buff and thus limited by proximity (which won't help if this toon is parked at the entrance).

As an Int-based trapper with Evasion I'd highly recommend Insightful Reflexes; you probably won't have very good Dex, so it'll be a sizable buff to your Reflex saves which is great for trappers. You could even just use Two Steps Ahead instead of Smooth Flourishes and run Int-max entirely, using 3 AP into Harper for Int-to-Hit (taken from racial probs). Depends a lot on if your Frozen Fury is landing, but with your build already focusing on Int, as a first life, and without a trance I wouldn't be super hopeful of that anyway? Roll up a test toon and see how it does before committing IMO. If you can free up some AP and afford KTA (8 AP total) you might come out comparable or even ahead on Frozen Fury DC's as well, which is an interesting prospect.

Otherwise as you level I'd consider Cleric 1+ for Divine Might as a Cha-trance. Bard 13 gives GH though, so that's up to you as to which is more valuable.

If you have access to VKF, it might be worth running daggers - for 3 AP you can get +20% Doublestrike, which is pretty rad especially in Heroics - it's nearly a 20% DPS boost. Would also use IC:Piercing which makes setting up a bit easier? Otherwise if you happen to have a bunch of Tome pages sitting around, Razorend (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Razorend)looks solid - or like a Sharn beater of any sort.

[Merfyn]

I'd definitely recommend Spellsinger T4 Sustaining Song. It'll provide a HoT effect (heals every ~9 seconds) that works across the dungeon (as long as your songs last) which is invaluable for a buffer IMO. Warchanter Core 4 is often stronger when you're actively playing the Bard, but it's an Aria buff and thus limited by proximity (which won't help if this toon is parked at the entrance).I doubt I'm going to "park" this at the entrance but I don't know the ranges well enough (I thought that it was time duration) so I'd probably hit "R" and then go back to the main toon. The only time I was thinking this one would ever lead was when I wanted to charm or fascinate. Dropping both Frozen Fury & Iced Edges gives me 4 points into Spellsinger so I'll play with that this weekend.


Depends a lot on if your Frozen Fury is landing, but with your build already focusing on Int, as a first life, and without a trance I wouldn't be super hopeful of that anyway? Roll up a test toon and see how it does before committing IMO. If you can free up some AP and afford KTA (8 AP total) you might come out comparable or even ahead on Frozen Fury DC's as well, which is an interesting prospect.That's what I was a bit torn by: I'm assuming that higher Charisma means better bard capability, but I've found that just squeaking by with 2 Rogue hasn't been sufficient for some traps, and I don't know what sort of balance this will yield. I followed the pattern of "level up = Int, enhancement = Cha" but don't have a good feeling for the sweet spot between them.

Otherwise as you level I'd consider Cleric 1+ for Divine Might as a Cha-trance. Bard 13 gives GH though, so that's up to you as to which is more valuable. Not sure what you mean about Cleric? I like Greater Hero though...

If you have access to VKF, it might be worth running daggers - for 3 AP you can get +20% Doublestrike, which is pretty rad especially in Heroics - it's nearly a 20% DPS boost. Would also use IC:Piercing which makes setting up a bit easier? Otherwise if you happen to have a bunch of Tome pages sitting around, Razorend (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Razorend)looks solid - or like a Sharn beater of any sort.None of the above, sadly. This account was nearly bare, which is why I was trying to figure out how to get some use out of it. Doesn't even have Ravenloft, much less Sharn; only ToEE.

[unbongwah]

Strength 8 4: INTDexterity 14 8: INT
Constitution 14 12: INT
Intelligence 16
Wisdom 8
Charisma 16
So I feel like your CHA is either too high or too low. Too high if you're just using bard spells for buffage (since Scoundrel starts with +7 CHA gear); too low if you're planning to use bard spells offensively.

Also magaiti's build is INT-based because it has Harper for INT to-hit and Know the Angles, but you said you don't have that tree on this alt account. So you're already at a disadvantage. However you also don't have Feydark Illusionist and this isn't a PDK, so no easy CHA to-hit option either.

Feats
1 : Single Weapon Fighting
3 : Precision
6 : Force of Personality
9 : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12 : Improved Critical: Slashing (see note below)
15 : Improved Shield Mastery
You can't take Improved Shield Mastery without Shield Mastery which you could take instead of FoP. Although I always presumed GSWF is the bigger DPS buff and should be taken first.

The only other screw-up is that the default Scoundrel weapon is a rapier but I expected to get a slasher of some kind instead.
What "slasher" are you intending to use? If if it's a sickle, you would also want Swords to Plowshares for +1 crit range (stacks with Swashbuckling) but that constrains your feats further.

Another issue for this build is Scoundrel doesn't start with any trapper gear so you're going to need to farm that first before it's useful in that role.

[SpartanKiller13]

I doubt I'm going to "park" this at the entrance but I don't know the ranges well enough (I thought that it was time duration) so I'd probably hit "R" and then go back to the main toon. The only time I was thinking this one would ever lead was when I wanted to charm or fascinate. Dropping both Frozen Fury & Iced Edges gives me 4 points into Spellsinger so I'll play with that this weekend.

That's what I was a bit torn by: I'm assuming that higher Charisma means better bard capability, but I've found that just squeaking by with 2 Rogue hasn't been sufficient for some traps, and I don't know what sort of balance this will yield. I followed the pattern of "level up = Int, enhancement = Cha" but don't have a good feeling for the sweet spot between them.
Not sure what you mean about Cleric? I like Greater Hero though...
None of the above, sadly. This account was nearly bare, which is why I was trying to figure out how to get some use out of it. Doesn't even have Ravenloft, much less Sharn; only ToEE.

There's two parts to Bard song buffs. One is Inspire Courage, an active song you sing to a person that (at Bard 13) will last for like 20 minutes or so given you'll be taking +duration in T1 of Spellsinger; a lot of Bard song buffs are rolled into this (like Inspire Competence giving +4 to skills). The other part of Bards is their Bardic Ballad (also called Aria in-game), an AoE (roughly double standard aura range - think Aura Warlock but bigger) buff that refreshes every ~10 seconds giving buffs that generally last 1 minute.

Sustaining Song (Spellsinger T4) adds a HoT to your Inspire Courage, so if you throw a song at someone they'll get healed every ~10s for the next ~20 minutes which is pretty great for being split up etc. It's not a monster heal, but it scales with spellpower (and healamp) so it's pretty great especially across long quests. Also for mario quests where you don't want to bring your alt along lol.

Inspire Greatness (Bard 9 autogrant) adds a temp HP shield to your Ballad. Every ~10s it refreshes a 20 temp HP buffer on all allies nearby. If you take Warchanter Core 4 (Fighting Spirit) it'll instead grant [CHA] temp HP, doubled in epics. At level 15 it's not mandatory to grab the C4, but in epics it's pretty impactful - so if you plan on parking a Bard buffer at 30 you generally Cha-max to optimize this ability further. My raid Bard spreads around 200 Temp HP with this enhancement.

Aside from Fighting Spirit, your Cha isn't doing a lot. You won't need spell points and probably won't have DC's anyway, so it's mostly social skills. That's a big part of why I would consider Int-maxing, just to make your gearing/leveling easier. Int is good for trapping, and powers your Reflex saves for Evasion (via Insightful Reflexes). Especially since you're already struggling some, being able to all-out on Int seems pretty helpful.

Cleric is a class? One of the enhancement trees, Warpriest, has Divine Might as a T1 enhancement that gives you access to a Cha-based trance. If you want viable Freezing Ice DC's you'll almost certainly need a trance + a bit of Cha investment. I don't think it's worth it for your circumstances, especially since you've already dropped Frozen Fury? But if you want to try for DC's it's what I'd recommend.


So I feel like your CHA is either too high or too low. Too high if you're just using bard spells for buffage (since Scoundrel starts with +7 CHA gear); too low if you're planning to use bard spells offensively.

Also magaiti's build is INT-based because it has Harper for INT to-hit and Know the Angles, but you said you don't have that tree on this alt account. So you're already at a disadvantage. However you also don't have Feydark Illusionist and this isn't a PDK, so no easy CHA to-hit option either.[/quote

I'm with Unbongwah here w/r/t Cha. Mostly all I can see it helping you with is Frozen Fury DC's and Fighting Spirit, but I'm not sure it's better than just going Int-based for trapping and KtA. Also you could then save a bunch of points in Warchanter maybe? Spellsinger T5 for Spellsong Vigor is popular with any blue-bar toon in DDO, if you can get there.

[quote]Another issue for this build is Scoundrel doesn't start with any trapper gear so you're going to need to farm that first before it's useful in that role.

I wonder if it's worth running as a SDK? Not sure if that's available for the OP, but if so starting with trapper gear might be worth the inconvenience. Only if you're going Int-max, but that seems like a fairly reasonable line given what I've seen so far.

[Merfyn]

So I feel like your CHA is either too high or too low. Too high if you're just using bard spells for buffage (since Scoundrel starts with +7 CHA gear); too low if you're planning to use bard spells offensively.Indeed; that's why I want advice. I'm neither experienced enough with the game mechanics nor able to spend lots of time grind/testing whether 28 Cha is enough.
I *AM* hoping to use charm-type spells but don't know how effective they'll be. What I've found enjoyable is to cast a charm on a fighter in a pack of cigarette smoking monsters, and the ones that don't start whupping on their buddy generally run straight into my main character + hirelings.
That's why I was putting points into Spellcraft (which in hindsight I didn't record properly either). At the same time I don't know if 19 Int is enough Intelligence to reliably disarm on Heroic Elite, even if using some Auction House bonus gear and picks with bonuses.

You can't take Improved Shield Mastery without Shield Mastery which you could take instead of FoP.Sorry, another misprint. I think it should have been Offhand Versatility.

If if it's a sickle, you would also want Swords to Plowshares for +1 crit range (stacks with Swashbuckling) but that constrains your feats further.Having 2nd thoughts about this, as mentioned; I'd need to farm or swap what I use from the other two accounts, which defeats the purpose of this being a "shake & bake" supporter.

[Merfyn]

Aside from Fighting Spirit, your Cha isn't doing a lot. You won't need spell points and probably won't have DC's anyway, so it's mostly social skills. That's a big part of why I would consider Int-maxing, just to make your gearing/leveling easier. Int is good for trapping, and powers your Reflex saves for Evasion (via Insightful Reflexes). Especially since you're already struggling some, being able to all-out on Int seems pretty helpful.Thanks; that explains a lot - it seems likely that I should go T4 in Spellsinger instead. Again, these are intended for almost throwaway characters on the third account so I won't be deliberately leveling them.

Cleric is a class? One of the enhancement trees, Warpriest, has Divine Might as a T1 enhancement that gives you access to a Cha-based trance.Gotcha. No, given that I'm already scraping a bit to get the most party buffs, having a personal buff of Divine Might isn't worth the investment (unless I misunderstood).

I'm with Unbongwah here w/r/t Cha. Mostly all I can see it helping you with is Frozen Fury DC's and Fighting Spirit, but I'm not sure it's better than just going Int-based for trapping and KtA. Also you could then save a bunch of points in Warchanter maybe? Spellsinger T5 for Spellsong Vigor is popular with any blue-bar toon in DDO, if you can get there.As I said to him, I'm doubtless misunderstanding the mechanics of Cha, because I thought I needed higher value to improve DC's for those occasions I try to use songs (or spells) as an "attack".

I wonder if it's worth running as a SDK? Not sure if that's available for the OP, but if so starting with trapper gear might be worth the inconvenience. Only if you're going Int-max, but that seems like a fairly reasonable line given what I've seen so far.Yep, that's what I had originally been considering in the *original* OP, but when I had the opportunity to buy Tiefling on sale I wanted to explore this option. Like I said, though, the account I'd play this on has literally nothing but the all-module pack.

[unbongwah]

Have you considered going with a caster build instead? Bard Sonic spells got buffed in U48.4 (https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_48_Patch_4_Release_Notes#Spells); the Shout and Horn of Thunder SLAs are particularly strong when fully meta'ed. Plus you'd have all bonuses to your Inspiration from Spellsinger; Sustaining Song + Spell Song Vigor are really nice. That helps narrow the focus of this toon.

This is loosely based on my experiences with this build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/419453-Help-me-craft-an-Iconic-Challenge-Farmer?p=6434583&viewfull=1#post6434583):

Scoundrel Spellsinger (dual-box)
14/1 Bard/Rogue
Tiefling Scoundrel




Level Order


1. Bard 6. Bard 11. Bard
2. Rogue 7. Bard 12. Bard
3. Bard 8. Bard 13. Bard
4. Bard 9. Bard 14. Bard
5. Bard 10. Bard 15. Bard




Stats
32pt Level Up
---- --------
Strength 8 4: CHA
Dexterity 8 8: CHA
Constitution 14 12: CHA
Intelligence 16
Wisdom 8
Charisma 20




Skills
B R B B B B B B B B B B B B B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
---------------------------------------------
Perform 4 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Concent 4 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Spellcr 4 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 18
Disable 5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Search 2 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
UMD 4 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 18
Open Lo 3 1 1 1 1 7
Swim 4 1 5
Balance 4 4
Jump 4 4
Tumble 4 4
---------------------------------------------
36 11 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9




Feats


1 : Maximize Spell
3 : Empower Spell
6 : Quicken Spell
9 : Heighten Spell
12 : Empower Healing Spell OR Extend Spell
15 : Improved Bardic Music OR Force of Personality




Spells




Focusing Chant (1), Grease (3), Sonic Blast (4), <Any>
Blur (5), Hold Person (5), Rage (6), Soundburst (8)
Haste (8), Displacement (8), Good Hope (9), Charm Monster (11)
Cure Critical Wounds (11), Dimension Door (11), Otto's Sphere of Dancing (12), Shout (14)
Shadow Walk (14), Greater Heroism (14), Mind Fog (15)




Enhancements (Spent: 60+0r +0u / Max: 60+0r +0u AP)


Spellsinger (37 AP)

Spellsinger, Music of the Sewers, Music of the Dead, Music of the Makers

Magical III, Sonic Blast III
Reverberate III, Marigold Crown: Violet
Raucous Refrain I, Shout III, Spell Song Trance
Sustaining Song, Arcane Aid III, Frolic, Song of Arcane Might
Advanced Musical Studies, Spell Song Vigor, SLA: Horn of Thunder III



Swashbuckler (12 AP)

Confidence, Swashbuckling, Uncanny Dodge

On Your Toes I, Tavern Shanties III
Deflect Arrows, Fast Movement
Skirmisher



Warchanter (11 AP)

Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism

Inspired Bravery III, Enchant Weapon
Boast III



Since we're not actually meleeing, Swashbuckler is for Fast Movement and defensive perks (Deflect Arrows, Uncanny Dodge). Your starter buckler is also your Fortification item, so I thought, "why not boost your defenses with Skirmisher as well?" Though it may be overkill.

Stats with starter gear would be:

STR: base 8 + 6 item = 14
DEX: base 8 + 6 item = 14
CON: base 14 + 1 Skaldic CON + 7 item = 22
INT: base 16 (buff with Fox's Cunning wands until you find an INT item)
WIS: base 8
CHA: base 20 + 3 level-ups + 7 item = 30


Scoundrel starts with Sonic spellpower, though you would want to add Spell Focus / Lore / etc. gear ASAP. IIRC last year's free quest code granted Cannith Challenges, so the ML:15 Blasting Chime (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Blasting_Chime) would be a relatively easy upgrade.

[Merfyn]

Have you considered going with a caster build instead? Bard Sonic spells got buffed in U48.4 (https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_48_Patch_4_Release_Notes#Spells); the Shout and Horn of Thunder SLAs are particularly strong when fully meta'ed. Plus you'd have all bonuses to your Inspiration from Spellsinger; Sustaining Song + Spell Song Vigor are really nice. That helps narrow the focus of this toon.Indeed I had, and thanks for the spec (where is the formatting from? I made a royal mess when I tried copying one earlier)

I had mentioned far earlier in the thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/117232-Request-a-Build-Get-a-Build?p=6411690&viewfull=1#post6411690) interest in seeing if I could use the sonic sort of build, but how does it fare with both party support & disable? I didn't think it would be as effective at support, which is what this toon is intended for... I have too many ~11 level toons that need leveling, & few of them are Rogue, Arty, or splash.

PS I think I'll try copying what you just posted for the weekend; even the f2p account has enough slots for a spare.

PPS I came up short on your enhancements; you show 60 but I only have 56 points

[unbongwah]

(where is the formatting from? I made a royal mess when I tried copying one earlier)
Use the Code Tags Format export option in Character Builder Lite. Or just manually add the code BB codes (https://www.ddo.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode) to your post. The code embeds use a fixed-width font instead of proportional, so it's much easier to read IMO.

I had mentioned far earlier in the thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/117232-Request-a-Build-Get-a-Build?p=6411690&viewfull=1#post6411690) interest in seeing if I could use the sonic sort of build, but how does it fare with both party support & disable?
It should be fine. You're a bard so you already have the major skill buffs like Focusing Chant, Inspire Competence, Greater Heroism, etc. Putting a few extra points into INT won't make you a better trapper. Farming better gear will make you a better trapper.

[HorusHorace]

Hello all. I'm a returning player, though I've always been a turbo casual, so I'm looking for feedback on this build. I play exclusively solo, so trapping and self-sufficiency are very important to me. I also have zero past lives and no gear outside of some basic trapper gear at various levels funneled from my old primary character. I did some research and I hope I did an okay job putting it all together. I'm currently level 6 on a pure artificer, but I have my reincarnation thing to let me redo from level 1 to fix any mistakes.

Concerns: I think my enhancement choices are suspect, I'm not sure of my class leveling order, and I'm not sure on the order or quality of my feat choices.

Thanks in advance for any insight offered.


Magewright
16/2/2 Artificer/Fighter/Rogue
True Neutral Warforged




Level Order


1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Artificer . . .11. Artificer . . .16. Fighter
2. Artificer. . . .7. Artificer. . . 12. Fighter . . . .17. Artificer
3. Artificer. . . .8. Artificer. . . 13. Artificer. . . 18. Artificer
4. Artificer. . . .9. Rogue . . . . .14. Artificer . . .19. Artificer
5. Artificer. . . 10. Artificer. . . 15. Artificer. . . 20. Artificer




Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . . . . . . 4: INT
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+7. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16. . . . . . . .12: INT
Intelligence. . 18. . . .+7. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .6. . . . . . . .20: INT
Charisma. . . . .6. . . . . . . .




Skills
. . . . . R .A .A .A .A .A .A .A .R. A. A. F .A .A .A .F. A. A. A. A
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Repair. . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 2 .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .2 .1 . . 1. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 3. 1. 1. 23
Disable . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. . .1 .1 .1 . . 1. . .4 .1 .23
Search. . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. ½ .1 .1 .1 .1½ 1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Balance . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1½ 1 .½ .2 .23
Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . .1 .7. 1. 1. . .1 .1½ 1½ 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Concent . 2 . . . . . 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . 1. . . . . .1 . . . .1 . 7
Haggle. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
Swim. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .48 .9 .9 10 10 10 10 11 15 11 11 10 12 12 12 11 13 13 13 14




Feats


.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.5 Arti . : Precise Shot
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
10 Arti . : Quicken Spell
12. . . . : Maximize Spell
12 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged
15. . . . : Spell Focus: Evocation
15 Arti . : Improved Precise Shot
16 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Ranged
18. . . . : Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
20 Arti . : Empower Spell




Spells




Conjure Bolts (2), Resist Energy (2), Ablative Armor (3), <Any>
Byeshk Weapons (4), Protection from Energy (5), <Any>, <Any>
Insightful Damage (7), Adamantine Weapons (8), Stoneskin (14), <Any>
Cold Iron Weapons (11), Armor of Speed (13), <Any>
Align Weapons (15), Silver Weapons (17)
Reconstruct (19), Tactical Detonation (20)




Enhancements


Inquisitive (41 AP)

Inquisitive, Hit the Streets, Mind Like Iron, True Seeing, Undaunted, Master Inquisitive

Dual Shooter, Eye for Accuracy III, Law on your Side
Crossbow Adept, Observation, Improved Law
Crossbow Adept, What First?: Ask Questions First, Improved Observation, Intelligence
Crossbow Adept, What Later?: Shoot Later, Inquisition Style: Martial Inquisition, Greater Law, Intelligence
No Holds Barred, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Inquisitor's Path: Optimistic, Diplomatic Immunity



Mechanic (11 AP)

Arbalester

Sharpshooter, Mechanics III
Sharpshooter, Wand and Scroll Mastery III



Kensei (11 AP)

Kensei Focus: Crossbows

Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization: Crossbows
Weapon Group Specialization: Crossbows



Harper Agent (8 AP)

Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III



Warforged (7 AP)

Improved Fortification

Construct Thinking III, Mechanist III



Renegade Mastermaker (2 AP)

Renegade Defender

Easily Fixed

[unbongwah]

Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . . . . . . 4: INT
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+7. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16. . . . . . . .12: INT
Intelligence. . 18. . . .+7. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .6. . . . . . . .20: INT
Charisma. . . . .6. . . . . . . .


So you have two +7 tomes listed, which I'm inferring you plan to buy. I should point out that unlocking 32-pt characters is 1,495 points (less than the 1,845 DP price of a +7 tome). Also SSG reduced the DEX requirement on Combat Archery from 21 to 17, so the highest DEX pre-req on this build is 19 for Improved Precise Shot. Thus you could unlock 32-pt builds, start at DEX 16, and buy a +3 DEX tome (945 DP). The total cost is higher (2,440 DPs) but 32-pt builds is an account-wide unlock which benefits all of your first-lifers (except drow), whereas tome purchases are single-character-only.

Of course, this is presuming you don't want to wait to see if anything goes on sale this month. We're now on Week 2 of the Summer Sails (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/525455-DDO-Store-Sales-July-15th-22nd) so there's still time to see if tomes or 32-pt builds go on sale.

[HorusHorace]

So you have two +7 tomes listed, which I'm inferring you plan to buy. I should point out that unlocking 32-pt characters is 1,495 points (less than the 1,845 DP price of a +7 tome). Also SSG reduced the DEX requirement on Combat Archery from 21 to 17, so the highest DEX pre-req on this build is 19 for Improved Precise Shot. Thus you could unlock 32-pt builds, start at DEX 16, and buy a +3 DEX tome (945 DP). The total cost is higher (2,440 DPs) but 32-pt builds is an account-wide unlock which benefits all of your first-lifers (except drow), whereas tome purchases are single-character-only.

Of course, this is presuming you don't want to wait to see if anything goes on sale this month. We're now on Week 2 of the Summer Sails (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/525455-DDO-Store-Sales-July-15th-22nd) so there's still time to see if tomes or 32-pt builds go on sale.Actually, I impulsively bought the tomes already, but that would've been a smarter choice. Oh well. I plan on reincarnating and doing Heroics primarily since Epics are what burned me out last time and focusing on this character, so I'll have a 34/36 build point buy at some point.

[sigtrent]

Hello all. I'm a returning player, though I've always been a turbo casual, so I'm looking for feedback on this build.

I'm surprised your not taking Strategic Combat II. It's one of the ways you can get a stat damage bonus for crossbows and thus, quite valuable for you.

[unbongwah]

I'm surprised your not taking Strategic Combat II. It's one of the ways you can get a stat damage bonus for crossbows and thus, quite valuable for you.
It's an Artificer so it will have Insightful Damage spell. That saves a few APs from Harper for other things.

P.S. Are you coming back to the forums or just stopping by for a visit? :)

[HorusHorace]

Here's my second draft, along with some questions and theorycraft after the planner dump. Keep in mind that the only other character I have is a an old school level 20 Tempest Trapmonkey from several years back, so my overall game experience is pretty low.


Magewright
16/2/2 Artificer/Fighter/Rogue
True Neutral Warforged




Level Order


1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Artificer . . .11. Artificer . . .16. Fighter
2. Artificer. . . .7. Artificer. . . 12. Fighter . . . .17. Artificer
3. Artificer. . . .8. Rogue . . . . .13. Artificer . . .18. Artificer
4. Artificer. . . .9. Artificer. . . 14. Artificer. . . 19. Artificer
5. Artificer. . . 10. Artificer. . . 15. Artificer. . . 20. Artificer




Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .34pt . . 36pt. . .Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . . . . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .14 . . . 14. . . .14 . . . +7 . . . 8: INT
Constitution. . 16. . . .18 . . . 18. . . .18 . . . . . . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 18. . . .18 . . . 18. . . .18 . . . +7 . . .16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .6. . . . 6 . . . .8. . . .10 . . . . . . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .6. . . . 6 . . . .6. . . . 6 . . . . . . .




Feats


.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.5 Arti . : Precise Shot
.6. . . . : Mithral Body
.9. . . . : Precision
10 Arti . : Quicken Spell
12. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
12 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged
15. . . . : Spell Focus: Evocation
15 Arti . : Improved Precise Shot
16 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Ranged
18. . . . : Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
20 Arti . : Extend Spell




Enhancements (Spent: 80+0r +0u / Max: 80+0r +0u AP)


Inquisitive (41 AP)

Inquisitive, Hit the Streets, Mind Like Iron, True Seeing, Undaunted, Master Inquisitive

Dual Shooter, Law on your Side
Crossbow Adept, Wand and Scroll Mastery III, Observation, Improved Law
Crossbow Adept, What First?: Ask Questions First, Improved Observation, Intelligence
Crossbow Adept, What Later?: Shoot Later, Inquisition Style: Martial Inquisition, Greater Law, Intelligence
No Holds Barred, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Inquisitor's Path: Jaded, Diplomatic Immunity



Battle Engineer (16 AP)

Battle Engineer, Infused Weapons, Infused Armor

Crossbow Training, Field Engineer II
Crossbow Training, Caustic Shot I, Extra Action Boost III



Kensei (11 AP)

Kensei Focus: Crossbows

Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization: Crossbows
Weapon Group Specialization: Crossbows



Harper Agent (8 AP)

Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III



Warforged (4 AP)

Improved Fortification

Mechanist III






My primary build goal is solo survivability and sustainability considering I'm still learning the build and don't have any gear. In future TRs I would then shift over to favoring DPS for clear speed.

I have concerns about the order of feats. I feel like Mithral Body at 6 for AC and PRR and Insightful Reflexes at 12 for better Evasion are good choices, but I'm not sure about the order of ranged feats after PBS. Also, are Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus: Evocation/Extend Spell a better choice than Dodge/Mobility/Shot on the Run? I heard that SotR is bugged and doesn't remove the to hit penalty and only applies the Ranged Power, so raising the DC of Tactical Detonation and making Tenser's Transformation less tedious seems better than some Dodge and a little RP. Is it just personal preference at that point? I think a more survivable playstyle is better for a first life character with no gear.

Speaking of Tenser's Transformation, is it worth it? I read that the increased BAB gives a lot of ranged attack speed. I don't mind buffing up every 3 minutes or so since I'm already using Know the Angles and it's part of the fun for me as a caster.

Which is the best Inquisitor's Path for all around solo play? Jaded is what I've seen others use, but is it better for my build goals? Also, I switched Mechanic out for Battle Engineer for Extra Action Boost because No Holds Barred sounds really strong.

[unbongwah]

IMO if you're already going Artificer 16 for level 6 spells, you might as well stick with pure Artificer. Evasion ain't what it used to be and Adamantine Body + RMM bonuses provide better survivability than Mithral Body. Plus for heroic leveling, I'd rather get higher-level Artificer spells ASAP than delay them for rogue and fighter splashes.

You don't play Artificer for pure ranged DPS; there's better classes for that. You pick Artificer because it's a well-rounded hybrid with DPS, crowd-control (Sphere, TacDet), and self-buffs/survivability.

[C-Dog]

(Cross-post w/ Unbongwah - His arguments that "You don't go Arti to go pure ranged DPS" are strong. However, the "best" alternatives require other Premium classes - Monk, or Favored Soul for example.

However, I'm not sure I can fully agree with his dismissal of Evasion - especially on a 1st-life build that doesn't have Past Lives and MRR yet, it's a great survival tool.)


My primary build goal is solo survivability and sustainability considering I'm still learning the build and don't have any gear. In future TRs I would then shift over to favoring DPS for clear speed.
WF Arti should be able to achieve both np. Also, remember that, in a very real sense, DPS is survivability - kill them before they can touch you, done.

But what are you trying to achieve with this build? Heroic Reincarnation at 20, or go to 30, or park at one of those, or what? Diff goals will determine the vaule/importance of diff build decisions! For example, if only going to 20, your Level 20 Feat will only be enjoyed for a brief time, but if farming and/or going to 30 it will have a much bigger impact, etc.


~4 general comments/suggestions, which I'll try to tie in to your own post above...


...are Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus: Evocation/Extend Spell a better choice than Dodge/Mobility/Shot on the Run?
Arguably (and depending on the exact build!), no.

1) Q: Is this a Ranged or Caster build? Decide which you are, and ignore Feats for the other. Very few builds can do both well, so might as well focus on one OR the other. Buffs don't rely on DC's, but combat/DPS does, and if your targets are saving for 1/2 damage (or for "nothing" with Evasion!), you're FAR better off sticking with your crossbow. (Hint: If you're already losing 4 Caster Levels to multi-classing, that only makes Evocation DC's worse!)

Or, here's another way to look at it: if you can kill a target with only one of A or B (and A/B have no overlap in power), why would you choose to pass on strengthening your best attack in favor of increasing your weaker attack? Why not be the best you can be in one OR the other? And when would you ever choose your lower DPS attack? :confused:

(Now, the counter-arguments are that "some CC is better than none" - and that's also true. But even with pure Arti and the +Evoc feats, I'm not sure a 1st-life can get anywhere close to no-fail DC's.)



... I heard that SotR is bugged and doesn't remove the to hit penalty and only applies the Ranged Power...
Not technically correct, but the result is the same.

With the current game mechanics, any decent build* will only miss on a "1", even when running. So, no, it's not bugged, but yes, the "to hit" bonus doesn't help (because you don't need the help!). Still, SotR is often the best Feat you can take late, as "a little more power" is never a bad thing. :cool:


(* i.e. anything with primary stat To Hit, and a decent focus on improving that stat)



I have concerns about the order of feats. but I'm not sure about the order of ranged feats after PBS.
Yeah, you always want to weigh "what you gain" vs. "what you could gain w/ something else"! And that in context of "Do I really need it yet?"

For instance...

Precision removes 25% of a targets Fort*, and few targets have very high Fort in low Heroics. So... that can wait imo!

(* It's not a flat "-25%" reduction!)


I feel like Mithral Body at 6 for AC and PRR and Insightful Reflexes at 12 for better Evasion are good choices,
MB is nice, as it mimics "chain mail", but PRR for armor gets better with BAB, so understand what the increase is for. (At Level 6 it's only ~+4 PRR.)
o https://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Resistance_Rating#Items

IR is also nice, but certainly better once you actually HAVE Evasion! And that can be a literal life-saver, esp once you have Insightful Reflexes. So...

2) Rogue 2 for Evasion asap. I'd go R2 a bit earlier, as Evasion becomes useful as early as the Lightning Bolts in Harbor 2's. You don't have the AP to get the Arti 4 Enhancements that soon, and Arti spells are not really a gamechanger for a ranged build.


Beyond those comments...

3) Fighter 1 early. The Kensai Tier 1 +8 to hit/+8 damage boost on a Repeater is massive at early levels, a real crusher.

Also, Rogue has more Skill Points than Arti, and only loses a little on Concentration, so I'd go Rogue 1st, then Arti. (You can make it to Level 2 without your dog or a repeater. :cool:)


Lastly...

4) Consider pushing to Fighter 4? Fighter 4 opens 2 nice Feats (and gives you one of them "for free"). If thinking about an 18-level build (for fast RR/TR*), you're only getting to Arti 14 anyway (Arti 14 + 2 + 2), and Arti 14 doesn't give you anything that you don't already have from Arti 12.


o https://ddowiki.com/page/Weapon_Specialization
o https://ddowiki.com/page/Tactical_Training

Fighter 4 also gives you more flexibility to drop a level of Fighter in where you can grab a critical feat early, and more BAB to achieve that, like for Improved Critical or IPS. See below, where those feats arrive earlier than in your approach. :cool:

(* Remember, if you are only going to 20 and then RR/TR, you'll go to 18 and hold there while you bank 20. This is so you can still join Quest-Level 16 quests (as few want a L19 character). Then you take 20, grab your 20 Tokens of the Twelve, and reincarnate asap.)


So, all that combined would give you something like...

Alternate Arti-multi Build
14/4/2 Artificer/Fighter/Rogue
True Neutral Warforged


Level Order

1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Artificer . . .11. Fighter. . . . 16. Artificer
2. Artificer. . . .7. Fighter . . . .12. Artificer . . .17. Artificer
3. Fighter . . . . 8. Artificer . . .13. Artificer . . .18. Artificer
4. Rogue . . . . . 9. Fighter. . . . 14. Artificer. . . 19. Artificer
5. Artificer. . . 10. Artificer. . . 15. Artificer. . . 20. Artificer


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 11. . . . . . . . 4: INT
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+7. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16. . . . . . . .12: INT
Intelligence. . 17. . . .+7. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .6. . . . . . . .20: INT
Charisma. . . . .6. . . . . . . .


Skills
. . . . . R .A .F. R .A .A .F. A. F .A .F. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A
. . . . . 1 .2 .3. 4 .5 .6 .7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 2 .3 . . . .2 .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Repair. . 4 . . 2 . . . . . 4 . . 2 . . 2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Disable . 4 .1 . . 2 .1 .1 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4 .1 . . . .3 .1 . . . . . . . . . .4 .3 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Search. . 4 .1 . . 2 .1 .1 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4 .1 . . 2 .1 .1 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4 .1 . . 2 .1 .1 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Jump. . . 1 . . 5 . . . . . 4 . . 2 . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
Haggle. . 4 . . . .2. . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
Balance . 4 . . . .3. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
Bluff . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .42 .8 .7 13. 9. 9. 8 10. 4 10. 4 11 10 .9 .8 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7
Max . . .44 .8 .7 13. 9. 9. 8 10. 8 10. 9 11 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13


Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.3. . . . : Precise Shot
.3 Fighter: Rapid Shot
.6. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.7 Fighter: Precision
.8 Arti . : Weapon Focus: Ranged
.9. . . . : Mithral Body
11 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged
12. . . . : Dodge
14 Arti . : Improved Precise Shot
15. . . . : Weapon Specialization: Ranged
18. . . . : Mobility
18 Arti . : Shot on the Run
I left a LOT of skill points on the table, 4 at the start and then a bunch starting ~Lvl 10. Be a Tumbling fool, max out Listen for those invisible enemies, go crazy.

And, as I said, that's only 1 possibility. You could take Unbongwah's excellent suggestion and just go pure Arti. You could dump Fighter and go Evasion Arti 18, or dump Rogue and go heavy-armor Arti w/ the Fighter boost. LOTS of ways to roll with this.


(Note re 17 Int: On any build without a Strength Tome, I hate suggesting a minimum Strength build, and especially if they have Evasion! (And it's only worse on Halflings/Gnomes! :rolleyes:) One suit of Plate Armor, a couple heavy weapons, and *poof* - you're Encumbered and a flat-footed mook, running slow and catching the next lightning bolt right in the teeth. NTY! :(

This build won't miss a few Skill Points, and w/ that +7 Int Tome the DPS/etc. won't suffer noticeably.)

[unbongwah]

However, I'm not sure I can fully agree with his dismissal of Evasion - especially on a 1st-life build that doesn't have Past Lives and MRR yet, it's a great survival tool.
My thinking is:

At low levels, if your Reflex saves are good enough for Evasion, then Resist + Protection from Energy should be enough to protect from half-damage. And if you fail your Reflex saves, then Evasion is meaningless and you're relying on MRR+energy buffs anyway.
At higher levels, when the MRR cap on light armor / Mithral Body comes into play, going beyond 100 MRR becomes more important, particularly when dealing with spells that can't be Evaded.
If we're talking about heroic leveling: how late do you want to backload your Artificer spell progression? Is it really worth delaying Lightning Sphere, your first good CC spell? Or Armor of Speed? Or Tactical Detonation + Deadly Weapons? Like you said, sometimes the best defense is a good offense; all of these are important parts of your DPS toolkit, particularly if we're talking first-lifers without a bunch of gear and past lives to fall back on.
It's not easy to raise the MDB of Mithral Body which doesn't scale with level like light armors do, so one of the advantages of light vs heavy (i.e., higher Dodge) is unfairly capped on Warforged. But I guess the meatsack races need some gearing advantage, otherwise why play one?
It's not just about MRR; PRR is important too and Adamantine Body provides twice as much as Mithral Body - more if you invest in Enhancements like Adamantine Durability and Supporting Construction. 6 APs into RMM gets you +20 repair amp, +6 PRR, and perma-Shield with Adamantine Body. Again, those are survivability buffs that are more useful to the first-lifer than the TR vet who breezes thru content on the way to their next life.


Now if we were talking about a fleshie Al-quisitive - e.g., Artificer 2 / Alchemist 18 - then I think the calculus changes a bit, since Alchemists have to deal with arcane spell failure plus they can grab Evasion as a bonus feat (Liquid Luck) so you don't have to "dilute" your build by splashing rogue or monk. Run something like 41 Inquisitive / 31 Vile Chemist / 8 Harper.

But after saying all that I guess I should actually post a build this time.

WF Inquisificer
Artificer 20
Warforged




Stats
32pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 4: INT
Dexterity 16 +3 8: INT
Constitution 16 12: INT
Intelligence 18 +2 16: INT
Wisdom 6 20: INT
Charisma 6 24: INT
28: INT


Skills
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Concent 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Repair 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Spellcr 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Disable 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Open Lo 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Search 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Spot 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
UMD 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Heal 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Haggle 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 9
Balance 1 1 2
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
32 9 9 9 9 9 9 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11 11




Feats


1 : Point Blank Shot
3 : Precise Shot
4 Arti : Adamantine Body
6 : Precision
8 Arti : Quicken Spell
9 : Insightful Reflexes
12 : Maximize Spell
12 Arti : Improved Critical: Ranged
15 : Spell Focus: Evocation
16 Arti : Improved Precise Shot
18 : Spell Penetration OR Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
20 Arti : Heighten Spell OR Empower Spell
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Burst of Glacial Wrath
26 Destiny: Holy Strike OR Epic Spell Power: Electricity
27 Epic :
28 Destiny: Doubleshot OR Hellball
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Arcane Warrior
30 Epic :
30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Air




Enhancements (Spent: 77+0r +0u / Max: 80+0r +0u AP)


Inquisitive (41 AP)

Inquisitive, Hit the Streets, Mind Like Iron, True Seeing, Undaunted, Master Inquisitive

Dual Shooter, Law on your Side
Crossbow Adept, Observation, Improved Law
Crossbow Adept, What First?: Shoot First, Improved Observation, Stop in the Name, Intelligence
Crossbow Adept, What Later?: Ask Questions Later, Inquisition Style: Martial Inquisition, Greater Law, Intelligence
No Holds Barred, Arresting Assault, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Inquisitor's Path: Optimistic, Diplomatic Immunity



Warforged (11 AP)

Improved Fortification, Warforged Constitution, Improved Fortification II

Mechanist III
Damage Reduction III
+15 Melee and Range Power



Battle Engineer (11 AP)

Battle Engineer, Infused Weapons, Infused Armor

Crossbow Training, Thaumaturgical Conduits III
Action Boost: Power III



Harper Agent (8 AP)

Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III



Renegade Mastermaker (6 AP)

Renegade Defender, Alchemical Shield

Easily Fixed, Supporting Construction III



Leveling Guide

Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Harper Enchantment
Hrp1 Strategic Combat; Hrp2 Versatile Adept I I, II, III
Hrp0 Ability Score: Intelligence; Hrp3 Strategic Combat II
Inq0 Inquisitive; Inq1 Dual Shooter
Inq1 Law on your Side; Inq0 Hit the Streets; Inq2 Improved Law
Reset Harper Agent

Inquisitive: Mind Like Iron

(none)
Crossbow Adept, Observation
Crossbow Adept, What First?: Shoot First, Improved Observation, Stop in the Name
Inquisition Style: Martial Inquisition, Greater Law



BE0 Battle Engineer; BE1 Thaumaturgical Conduits I, II, III
Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Strategic Combat; RM0 Renegade Defender
RM1 Easily Fixed; RM1 Supporting Construction I, II, III
RM0 Alchemical Shield; Inq4 Crossbow Adept; Inq4 What Later?: Ask Questions Later
Inq3 Intelligence; Hrp1 Harper Enchantment
Inq0 True Seeing; Inq5 Inquisitor's Path: Optimistic; Inq5 No Holds Barred
Inq5 Arresting Assault; Inq5 Diplomatic Immunity; Inq5 Improved Uncanny Dodge
BE1 Crossbow Training; BE0 Infused Weapons; BE2 Action Boost: Power I
BE2 Action Boost: Power II, III; BE0 Infused Armor; Hrp2 Know the Angles I
Hrp2 Know the Angles II, III; War0 Improved Fortification; War1 Mechanist I
War1 Mechanist II, III; War0 Warforged Constitution
Inq0 Undaunted; War2 Damage Reduction I, II, III
War0 Improved Fortification II; War3 +15 Melee and Range Power; Inq4 Intelligence
Inq0 Master Inquisitive

[HorusHorace]

Wow, thanks both of you for your feedback. Because I already started as a pure artificer and I'm curious about how strong a non-evasion build is I think I'm going to stick with that rather than splash for evasion. Unbongwah makes a strong case for staying pure arti, since I dimly recall starting this character years ago to make a ranged/caster hybrid that also traps.

[DoctorOfLiterature]

Doing Deep Gnome for my next PL and would like him to be Inquisitive and also to be able to take advantage of Color Spray and do some trapping. Haven't found a good build guide anywhere for DG Inquisitive. Thanks for your thoughts.

[SpartanKiller13]

Doing Deep Gnome for my next PL and would like him to be Inquisitive and also to be able to take advantage of Color Spray and do some trapping. Haven't found a good build guide anywhere for DG Inquisitive. Thanks for your thoughts.

Do you have access to Harper Agent? Do you have a Dex tome?

DG starts at 15 so most of feats & leveling order are much less impactful.

Basically you'll want to max Int and get enough Dex for ranged feats, while using Int-to-everything via Harper & KTA. Trapping via Int.

Class split you get options on; 18/2 Wizard/Rogue works well for having high-level Wizard spells (Mass Hold & PWK for instance) while getting Evasion, but if you don't care for casting it's pretty open. Another big question is if you want to go Pale Master or not; I'd recommend it unless you're running mostly mid-high Reaper. If you do, more Wizard levels = longer spell durations = quality of life. You could also quite reasonably fit basically any caster class into a x/Rogue/Wizard x/2/1 split, if you're looking for a particular HPL (I did a FvS life as an Int-max DG).

Part of the reason it's so flexible is that most of your AP expenditure is not class related:
41 AP Inquisitive (Cores > capstone, T5)
14 AP Harper Agent (Strategic Combat I & II, KtA)
6+ AP Deep Gnome (GCS, +Int, Gnomish Weapon Training? Illusion Focus?)

Leaving <20 AP leftover for whatever class trees you have available. You could also reasonably spend 8-11 AP into VKF for Quick Draw, Haste Boost & 5% DS to further the hilarity. 8 AP into Mechanic can be good if you're struggling with trapping (+2 base +6 Action Boost), but that's pretty easy to fix via gear given you're Int-max.

If you're heavy Wizard, I'd recommend ~6 AP into PM for undead form (Wraith is nice, but you can pick based on looks too) and +20 Neg Amp. I'd probably spend some into EK as well for cheap goodies like PRR/MRR & a spellsword toggle for more bonus damage.

Feats I'd be looking at:

Ranged: Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Quick Draw, Precise Shot, and Improved Precise Shot.
Casting: Quick Draw, Quicken Spell, Heighten Spell, Spell Focus: Illusion, Extend Spell.
Epic Feats: Combat Archery, Wellspring of Power (if PM), Overwhelming Critical, Embolden Spell.
Destiny Feats: Doubleshot, Toughness?
Legendary Feat: Scion of Fire (better heals if PM) or Scion of Feywild (+2 DC's, less-resisted damage).

Note you can augment Quick Draw, or get it via VKF Core 2 - and it's good for both casting and ranged DPS. SF:Illusion is better than PL:Wizard because it allows you to twist Magister School Focus; PL:Wizard is better than GSF:Illusion if you have feats leftover. Also note that you can right-click GCS's hotbar icon and set Quicken/Heighten to always on for free :)

IPS requires 19 Dex, including tomes. This is why I asked about Dex tomes.

-----

I'd skim over this thread: link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/511252-DC-Wizard-Inquisitive-Build-Advice?p=6302973).

-----

DC casting + DPS is currently nearly impossible at cap without hilarious amounts of investment in your build. Post-U50 it'll be a lot more doable via augments and stat squishing, and post-U51 likely even more so if the ED changes look anything like the early previews.

You can do pretty solidly until later epics but on live at 29+ it's hard to maintain viable spell DC's without gimping your DPS a bunch.

[DoctorOfLiterature]

Do you have access to Harper Agent? Do you have a Dex tome?
I do have access to Harper and I have the following tomes:
+2 Dex
+2 Con
+2 Int
+2 Wis


Basically you'll want to max Int and get enough Dex for ranged feats, while using Int-to-everything via Harper & KTA. Trapping via Int.

Yes! This is the plan. I have done other Rogue/Ranger/Arti inquisitors so have the basic idea of Int and getting INT to hit and damage from Harper.

Thanks for advice. I am thinking 11 Ranger; 8 Rogue; 1 Wizard so I can take advantage of all the good Ranger feats, especially good for ranged, and also get Uncanndy Dodge from Rogue. This is a straight shot from 15 to 30 so won't stay at cap. Building up PLs to help with being ranged at cap.

[SpartanKiller13]

Do you have access to Harper Agent? Do you have a Dex tome?
I do have access to Harper and I have the following tomes:
+2 Dex

Basically you'll want to max Int and get enough Dex for ranged feats, while using Int-to-everything via Harper & KTA. Trapping via Int.

Yes! This is the plan. I have done other Rogue/Ranger/Arti inquisitors so have the basic idea of Int and getting INT to hit and damage from Harper.

Thanks for advice. I am thinking 11 Ranger; 8 Rogue; 1 Wizard so I can take advantage of all the good Ranger feats, especially good for ranged, and also get Uncanny Dodge from Rogue. This is a straight shot from 15 to 30 so won't stay at cap. Building up PLs to help with being ranged at cap.

Honestly then with taking Ranger 11 you get a whole stack of free ranged feats (including IPS) so you just want Dex 17 for Combat Archery; with a +2 tome you can start 15 Dex and you're set. I'd recommend you to level up Rogue at 2 (for skills mostly) and then just take your 11 Ranger so you aren't short any ranged feats at 15 when you start. Finishing off with Rogue will get you the goodies for epics and you'll have IPS the whole way :)

Then your desired feat list is like: Rapid Reload, Quick Draw, Quicken Spell, Heighten Spell, Spell Focus: Illusion. Everything else is cake lol. I'd be looking for more ranged DPS (like Shot on the Run) or more Illusion DC's (GSF or PL:Wizard if available).

Note that Ram's Might gives +2 damage to all weapons even as an Inquisitive :)

I'd also recommend picking up Blur from Deep Gnome unless you regularly run >R1 (concealment is reduced as you increase skulls, but 20% is pretty great in E/R1).

[HumanJHawkins]

I haven't played my formerly capped toon 'Bloodbath' since lvl 20 was the cap. Highly suspect he is way out of date. So here is a (re)build request.

Parameters:

Planning to TR, but also have a +20 lesser heart in the bank. So can rebuild into any class to get any specific past-life feat. Any race or classes ok. Any equipment is OK as it will be fun questing for anything needed that I don't already have.




Goal is 99% maximized and always on melee DPS... Meaning, if I can sacrifice the smallest bit of DPS for a solid defense boost, that is (maybe) OK. But essentially everything should be strongly focused on higher damage output.




An example of what I am looking for is a modern version of the Half-orc Barbarian from 10 years back, who just needed to stay raged and whose only defense was to have very high hit points.




I get limited use out of even the best damage boosts... I forget they are there, and cannot (and don't find it fun to) keep looking down to see if a timer is done. I can use long lasting/constant boosts like Rage, and can use things (for example) like Endless Fuselage because it has a very short cooldown and is extremely effective. But I can't use any "you are uber for 10 seconds with a 90 second cooldown" type things.




Unless TWF is just not up to the job these days, I'd prefer THF over TWF. Because I already have 3 good TWF builds.


I have a bunch of other more balanced toons. This build is filling the "Kill everything while giving the dedicated healer something to do" role. :-)

Also, a question: Is the build I described obsolete? If so, how bad is it?

Thanks!

[unbongwah]

Goal is 99% maximized and always on melee DPS... Meaning, if I can sacrifice the smallest bit of DPS for a solid defense boost, that is (maybe) OK. But essentially everything should be strongly focused on higher damage output.


Dunno what's the best lowbie-to-midtier options are now, but if you wanna see what to aim for, check out Cetus' thread: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/524485-Cetus-18-Fighter-1-Monk-1-Favored-Soul-The-Ultimate-Offensive-Fighter




An example of what I am looking for is a modern version of the Half-orc Barbarian from 10 years back, who just needed to stay raged and whose only defense was to have very high hit points.


The simplest option would be max-STR HO pure barbarian with something like:

41 APs Frenzied Berserker for tier-5s + capstone using Sword of Shadows or falchions
18 APs racial tree for Brutality
spread remaining APs as you see fit

[infael]

In the last DDO livestream, Cordo's FvS, Dokhar?, did EH Saltmarsh at lv 29.

My FvS is pretty squishy and I'd like a melee build. I've only 3 PL for my FvS. Build suggestions, please. :)

Thank you.

[SpartanKiller13]

In the last DDO livestream, Cordo's FvS, Dokhar?, did EH Saltmarsh at lv 29.

My FvS is pretty squishy and I'd like a melee build. I've only 3 PL for my FvS. Build suggestions, please. :)

Thank you.

Heya! What are you looking for from the build that's different from implied? Is there a specific weapon style you're after? Did you pick up 1750 favor tomes on your first few PL's, and if so are any of them in Str or Dex? Is multiclassing desired, or unwanted? Is this a 1-20 build, or 1-30, or? Any race requirements/limitations? What universal trees/races do you have access to?

FvS gets Wis-or-Cha to-hit-and-damage at level 2 (you have to pick one) which makes that part easy. Also 10 HP/level at level 7 which bumps survivability a lot. Your hardest part is probably stat requirements for feats (especially for THF or TWF) and figuring out what weapon style to use (melee FvS really wants to use a favored weapon).

The easiest is probably a SWF longsword build. It's a favored weapon via Sovereign Host, and you can use Knight's Training for bonus crits with it. Warforged can use greatswords with a THF build, and Wood Elves can use Falchions also as THF, but those are slightly more complicated builds and require P2P races. You could also run a dagger build with Vistani Knife Fighter (if you own Ravenloft or want to spend the points).

End result though, you want weapon feats (THF x3 or SWF x3), IC:relevant (slashing for most, piercing for VKF), Precision, Knight's Training (if longsword), Offhand Versatility (if SWF), and then generally spellcasting stuff like Quicken Spell, Quick Draw (skip if VKF), and Extend Spell. These are mostly gated by your Base Attack Bonus so you don't really get options too much.

Side note if you have access to Feydark Illusionist you could run as a Greater Color Spray melee and use it for cc :) if so, pick up Heighten Spell later on for the DC boost.

AP split is mostly filling out War Soul (Cores, Divine X, Favored stuff, Haste Boost, Magic Backlash, +2 stat, Ameliorating, +10% DS, full T5) and then trying to get good stuff with leftovers (racial tree, Beacon of Hope goodies, etc). If you're raiding at cap I'd recommend swapping in AoV T4 Crown of Retribution if you can at all afford it; throw it on your tank and profit from -50% Fort on your enemies. If VKF build obviously mostly VKF then War Soul.

You could also quite reasonably go 17/3 FvS/Paladin while going Cha-build. You'll get early defender stance (6 AP for 25 PRR/MRR, another 7 AP for +20% HP), +11 to all saves, and some early BaB for feat requirements. Could go Fighter instead for 2 bonus feats but I prefer the saves boost personally. It does cost you a bunch of DPS at level 18+ (core 5 helps a bunch) and the shiny capstone (it's pretty meh for soloing but awesome in a party) in favor of that tankiness though.

[Kazahashi]

Hey guys, I'm new-ish to the game. Played off and on since release, but forgot my original account and had to make a new one a few years back.

I recently came back with my wife, daughter, and brother to play and have been having a blast. Last night, I decided to pick up the Scourge Iconic and have been trying to find a first life friendly build, and one that preferably doesn't use maces (I have a thing against blunt weapons) and also works solo.

I'm open to classes, but would be fine sticking with Ranger (I enjoy my Drow Ranger as it is).

Any advice would be helpful and awesome. Thanks so much!

[unbongwah]

Last night, I decided to pick up the Scourge Iconic and have been trying to find a first life friendly build, and one that preferably doesn't use maces (I have a thing against blunt weapons) and also works solo.
Other than your "no blunts" requirement, that's what this build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/472000-Iconic-Builds-for-New-Players?p=6457351&viewfull=1#post6457351) is intended for.

[Kazahashi]

Other than your "no blunts" requirement, that's what this build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/472000-Iconic-Builds-for-New-Players?p=6457351&viewfull=1#post6457351) is intended for.

I actually just saw that about an hour or so ago.

What would you recommend taking instead for say, double swords? (I apologize in advance for the newb questions, just starting to scratch the surface of builds, in game terms, etc, and a little iffy on Enchancements and what to choose)

[unbongwah]

What would you recommend taking instead for say, double swords?
At that point you're left with a pretty standard STR Tempest build which hasn't really changed since the Knight's Training feat got added in Update 41.3. Scourge racial weapon bonuses do you no good so I guess your AP split would be something like 42 Tempest / 31 DWS / 8 Scourge (+2 STR and max Healing Hands). That presumes you stick with pure ranger; you always have the option of, say, a Tempest Trapmonkey variant (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423116-Tempest-Trapmonkey-for-new-players).

[commando4290]

Main focus is DPS. Im aware about survivability, but that comes later.

[infael]

Am lv 20. Thank you!


Heya! What are you looking for from the build that's different from implied? Is there a specific weapon style you're after? Did you pick up 1750 favor tomes on your first few PL's, and if so are any of them in Str or Dex? Is multiclassing desired, or unwanted? Is this a 1-20 build, or 1-30, or? Any race requirements/limitations? What universal trees/races do you have access to?

FvS gets Wis-or-Cha to-hit-and-damage at level 2 (you have to pick one) which makes that part easy. Also 10 HP/level at level 7 which bumps survivability a lot. Your hardest part is probably stat requirements for feats (especially for THF or TWF) and figuring out what weapon style to use (melee FvS really wants to use a favored weapon).

The easiest is probably a SWF longsword build. It's a favored weapon via Sovereign Host, and you can use Knight's Training for bonus crits with it. Warforged can use greatswords with a THF build, and Wood Elves can use Falchions also as THF, but those are slightly more complicated builds and require P2P races. You could also run a dagger build with Vistani Knife Fighter (if you own Ravenloft or want to spend the points).

End result though, you want weapon feats (THF x3 or SWF x3), IC:relevant (slashing for most, piercing for VKF), Precision, Knight's Training (if longsword), Offhand Versatility (if SWF), and then generally spellcasting stuff like Quicken Spell, Quick Draw (skip if VKF), and Extend Spell. These are mostly gated by your Base Attack Bonus so you don't really get options too much.

Side note if you have access to Feydark Illusionist you could run as a Greater Color Spray melee and use it for cc :) if so, pick up Heighten Spell later on for the DC boost.

AP split is mostly filling out War Soul (Cores, Divine X, Favored stuff, Haste Boost, Magic Backlash, +2 stat, Ameliorating, +10% DS, full T5) and then trying to get good stuff with leftovers (racial tree, Beacon of Hope goodies, etc). If you're raiding at cap I'd recommend swapping in AoV T4 Crown of Retribution if you can at all afford it; throw it on your tank and profit from -50% Fort on your enemies. If VKF build obviously mostly VKF then War Soul.

You could also quite reasonably go 17/3 FvS/Paladin while going Cha-build. You'll get early defender stance (6 AP for 25 PRR/MRR, another 7 AP for +20% HP), +11 to all saves, and some early BaB for feat requirements. Could go Fighter instead for 2 bonus feats but I prefer the saves boost personally. It does cost you a bunch of DPS at level 18+ (core 5 helps a bunch) and the shiny capstone (it's pretty meh for soloing but awesome in a party) in favor of that tankiness though.

[SpartanKiller13]

Main focus is DPS. Im aware about survivability, but that comes later.

For raiding or leveling? Burst DPS or sustained? What sorts of PL's/gear/tomes do you have available?

Max DPS will always be some Ranger split in any circumstance where DoD is fully applying, but if you just want single-target it's probably about a 18/1/1 VKF Rogue/FvS/Monk build (probably Aasimar with lots of racial AP is highest DPS - unless you can time Divine Form consistently, but if less RAP Scourge wins).

Best data I have is Tormaad's burst DPS tests from pre-U50, but they should still be pretty comparable: link. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ros_kKZvBTaSMhda098wOOV1uRUg6U1IJlFtsZTpYLk/edit#) Given in those tests Paladin was in Fatesinger vs Rogue in Shadowdancer (epic moment diff) and he only tested pure builds there 18/1/1 seems far and away the best single-target DPS for TWF - maybe even worth running in Fatesinger if you're just after boss-burning.

41 AP VKF (capstone + T5), 31 AP Assassin (Core 5), 3-4 AP War Soul (Divine X), 16-17 AP racial, then like 3 AP TA (Fast Movement).

1) TWF
3) Precision
6) Improved Feint, Completionist, or Adept of Forms (depending if you need/use IF and have access to Completionist)
9) ITWF
12) IC:Piercing
15) Completionist, Adept of Forms, or Master of Forms.
18) GTWF
21) Overwhelming Crit
24) Improved Sneak Attack
26D) PTWF
27) Adept of Forms, Master of Forms, Grandmaster of Forms, or WF:Piercing (skip GoF if using Fire stance - which you do if your DS is near or at cap)
28D) Pierce Adamantine (or First Blood for technically more damage, but that's probably much worse)
29D) Dire Charge (or Harbinger/Embodiment for again technically more damage but please bring DC)
30) Master of Forms, Grandmaster of Forms, WF:Piercing, or WF:Slashing (same GoF skip, or just +2 MP)
30L) Scion of Ethereal

Rogue: Opportunist, Improved Evasion, Slippery Mind or Defensive Roll

Something like that, throw it into a build generator to make sure I didn't mess up feats lol.


Am lv 20. Thank you!

Did it work? Glad to help! Do you have questions?

[LordPNut]

So I have this 2rog 18 arti shadar-kai (this is first life) almost lvl 30 that Id like to tr into something else (sorry I cant stand to play arti anymore). I am wondering what's the best druid build out atm. Id prefer caster over melee. Any feats I should take or a good stat setup available somewhere. Appreciate any answers, thanks :)

[SpartanKiller13]

So I have this 2rog 18 arti shadar-kai (this is first life) almost lvl 30 that Id like to tr into something else (sorry I cant stand to play arti anymore). I am wondering what's the best druid build out atm. Id prefer caster over melee. Any feats I should take or a good stat setup available somewhere. Appreciate any answers, thanks :)

Here's Gingerspyce's tank/caster/healer druid: link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427398-Gingerspyce-s-caster-healer-quasi-tank-build) it's an all-rounder, with a ton of details meaning it's a good spot to start looking.

Here's Tipav's Reaper druid: link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/508015-An-ultimate-caster-druid-build-awesome-damage-DC-heal) which does a bit of DPS and a bit of healing/DC casting in mid-high Reaper (with a dedicated party mostly)

Here's Deathtitan's DPS-casting druid: link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/524630-DeathTitan-DC-caster-druid) with some R6 solo vids included. Good discussion and a lot of focus on self-healing in higher skulls.

Here's Strimtom's caster druid: link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522905-Testing-out-some-U48-4-Caster-Druid-and-it-feels-better-for-levelling?p=6415651#post6415651) which I think is a first life? Probably more useful for first-time but less useful long-term.

Hopefully that's a solid base for ya to start with? From what I've read there's some falloff in epics for Druid casting DPS, but it's still alright and they have CC/heals/tankiness which can be pretty helpful.

[LordPNut]

Here's Gingerspyce's tank/caster/healer druid: link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427398-Gingerspyce-s-caster-healer-quasi-tank-build) it's an all-rounder, with a ton of details meaning it's a good spot to start looking.

Here's Tipav's Reaper druid: link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/508015-An-ultimate-caster-druid-build-awesome-damage-DC-heal) which does a bit of DPS and a bit of healing/DC casting in mid-high Reaper (with a dedicated party mostly)

Here's Deathtitan's DPS-casting druid: link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/524630-DeathTitan-DC-caster-druid) with some R6 solo vids included. Good discussion and a lot of focus on self-healing in higher skulls.

Here's Strimtom's caster druid: link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522905-Testing-out-some-U48-4-Caster-Druid-and-it-feels-better-for-levelling?p=6415651#post6415651) which I think is a first life? Probably more useful for first-time but less useful long-term.

Hopefully that's a solid base for ya to start with? From what I've read there's some falloff in epics for Druid casting DPS, but it's still alright and they have CC/heals/tankiness which can be pretty helpful.

Thank you what I was looking for, last time I played a druid is when they first came out.

[Incredulousdog]

Hi, was wondering if anyone had done a swashbuckler with with Feydark Illusionist cha to hit and dam. I think the greater color spray could be useful as well. This will be for my second life. I still feel pretty new and havnt done any raiding so the build doesnt need to be top tier. My thoughts are a mix of bard/favored soul.

[SpartanKiller13]

Hi, was wondering if anyone had done a swashbuckler with with Feydark Illusionist cha to hit and dam. I think the greater color spray could be useful as well. This will be for my second life. I still feel pretty new and haven't done any raiding so the build doesn't need to be top tier. My thoughts are a mix of bard/favored soul.

Lemme get ya started with this excellent thread from Unbongwah: link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/524066-Adventures-of-Baron-Munchausen-Revisiting-CHA-Swashbucklers-for-New(ish).

Some major things you'll want to answer: how multiclassed do you want to be, what T5 do you want, and do you want to use a buckler or not?

Just for Swashbuckling + Feydark you really only need Bard 3. FvS 1+ is really nice for Divine Might and free Magical Training, and Fighter (usually 6) is really good for bonus feats and enhancements - if you're going Buckler route in particular it can be really helpful to have more feats and access to Stalwart's improved options if you want some cheap defenses. Fighter 6 is also really good if you can use a build that benefits from Kensei Core 3 (which gives +1 crit multiplier) so handaxe/light pick builds are pretty tied to this. If you plan on Warchanter investment (which is really solid) you'll want more Bard levels though, as your CC duration is tied to that.

Warchanter will give you incredibly reliable CC (Cha-max with Divine Might = high DC), but it's single-target unless you get to the T5. You're also mentioning just using GCS, which is extremely good AoE CC but will require some investment and falls off at endgame (you have to give up too much of everything else to have viable spellcasting DC's at like level 28+) but that's not really an issue for leveling.

Buckler or not changes a few things - without one, you start straight out with 10% Doublestrike, +6 damage, and you can grab Offhand Versatility for a bunch of extra damage and be done. That's pretty great, and frees your feats up a bunch. With a buckler, you kinda have to grab 3 Shield Mastery feats - but you get 3/6/10% Doublestrike, can twist LSM for another 7% DS in epics, access to Stalwart Defender stuff (like +20% HP), 10% Dodge and some cheap PRR, and you get an entire gearslot extra to throw cool things in; also might have to grab Improved Shield Bash to hit things with it.

On a Greater Color Spray build you really want Quicken Spell, Heighten Spell (take this at higher levels), Quick Draw (reduces time between casting and swinging), and ideally Spell Focus: Illusion (so you can twist Illusion Specialist). Add that to 3x SWF feats, Improved Critical, Precision, and QoL stuff like Extend Spell and you see why feats get tight and multiclassing looks so good :)

My immediate thoughts are probably Bard/Fighter with 1 FvS level. You'd have plenty of CC via GCS and likely Freezing Ice as a backup, and a few levels of Fighter = bonus feats which is really helpful. A lot of where you go from there depends on what you're interested in :)

What are you thinking? I'd be happy to build something a lot more detailed but there's a lot of possible routes to take so I'd like to get one that fits your needs/interests better :)

[Incredulousdog]

Lemme get ya started with this excellent thread from Unbongwah: link (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/524066-Adventures-of-Baron-Munchausen-Revisiting-CHA-Swashbucklers-for-New(ish).

Some major things you'll want to answer: how multiclassed do you want to be, what T5 do you want, and do you want to use a buckler or not?

Just for Swashbuckling + Feydark you really only need Bard 3. FvS 1+ is really nice for Divine Might and free Magical Training, and Fighter (usually 6) is really good for bonus feats and enhancements - if you're going Buckler route in particular it can be really helpful to have more feats and access to Stalwart's improved options if you want some cheap defenses. Fighter 6 is also really good if you can use a build that benefits from Kensei Core 3 (which gives +1 crit multiplier) so handaxe/light pick builds are pretty tied to this. If you plan on Warchanter investment (which is really solid) you'll want more Bard levels though, as your CC duration is tied to that.

Warchanter will give you incredibly reliable CC (Cha-max with Divine Might = high DC), but it's single-target unless you get to the T5. You're also mentioning just using GCS, which is extremely good AoE CC but will require some investment and falls off at endgame (you have to give up too much of everything else to have viable spellcasting DC's at like level 28+) but that's not really an issue for leveling.

Buckler or not changes a few things - without one, you start straight out with 10% Doublestrike, +6 damage, and you can grab Offhand Versatility for a bunch of extra damage and be done. That's pretty great, and frees your feats up a bunch. With a buckler, you kinda have to grab 3 Shield Mastery feats - but you get 3/6/10% Doublestrike, can twist LSM for another 7% DS in epics, access to Stalwart Defender stuff (like +20% HP), 10% Dodge and some cheap PRR, and you get an entire gearslot extra to throw cool things in; also might have to grab Improved Shield Bash to hit things with it.

On a Greater Color Spray build you really want Quicken Spell, Heighten Spell (take this at higher levels), Quick Draw (reduces time between casting and swinging), and ideally Spell Focus: Illusion (so you can twist Illusion Specialist). Add that to 3x SWF feats, Improved Critical, Precision, and QoL stuff like Extend Spell and you see why feats get tight and multiclassing looks so good :)

My immediate thoughts are probably Bard/Fighter with 1 FvS level. You'd have plenty of CC via GCS and likely Freezing Ice as a backup, and a few levels of Fighter = bonus feats which is really helpful. A lot of where you go from there depends on what you're interested in :)

What are you thinking? I'd be happy to build something a lot more detailed but there's a lot of possible routes to take so I'd like to get one that fits your needs/interests better :)

So far I've got B3/FvS1/F3. I def. want to use a buckler. I've gone as far as cha to hit/dam, GCS, blur, and the Shadow swords in FI. The shadow sword has been great at these lower levels but will likely spec out of it. Still undecided what T5 I want but the CC in warchanter looks pretty good. Thanks for the link and any other input.
Can I use two stances at once? Swashbuckling and stalwart defence. Not sure I want that threat gen. I occasionally group with guild mates, mostly solo.

[Tyson]

That's pretty much it. Does anyone have one already built out, that is current? Some folks on the discord helped me start him, but i'm looking for a smart way to level him... which gear should i be aiming for/farming for? I'm cool with multiclassing too, but it isn't necessary. This isn't going to be for reapers, just normal leveling for fun with my arti-wife.

[black_pearl2001]

Race: dwarf 2nd life/past life barb
32 pt +4 tomes excl. cha

flavour elements
gear: leather armour & cap, battle-axe
traits: good foot speed, invisibility, welsh folk lore based (so more fey type than LoTR), good spot/search//hide/move silently, hunting/tracking, good fighter
Rage req (PLF Barb will suffice), grumpy, gruff, rants, sullen etc

General
hand/battle/dwarven axes acceptable - single weapon w'empty off-hand SWF or THF w'DA acceptable
dex/int/wis to hit/dam using enhancements acceptable or str or TYWA acceptable

Please and thank you.

[SpartanKiller13]

So far I've got B3/FvS1/F3. I def. want to use a buckler. I've gone as far as cha to hit/dam, GCS, blur, and the Shadow swords in FI. The shadow sword has been great at these lower levels but will likely spec out of it. Still undecided what T5 I want but the CC in warchanter looks pretty good. Thanks for the link and any other input.
Can I use two stances at once? Swashbuckling and stalwart defense. Not sure I want that threat gen. I occasionally group with guild mates, mostly solo.

Can always use the Imbue with Shadow part of shadow blades for +1 and unbreakable weapons for QoL once you stop using them :)

If you're having solid GCS cc no need to worry about Warchanter T5, but in epics (particularly at cap) it might be worth speccing WC for it. The T5 is also really good for raiding and high reaper in general (6% DPS and 15% MS party buffs, 3x full heals, and super-reliable AoE CC).

You should be able to; AFAIK only "general" stances can't have multiple running, and those that call it out (like SaD & StD's). Your general stance will be Precision, so you should be fine for both. Threat Gen only matters when you're partied with a tank (and even then mostly only at endgame or for Reaper), and you can swap the stance off as needed. If you're raiding/partying a lot re-spec, but 20% HP is a lot of survivability :p

[SpartanKiller13]

That's pretty much it. Does anyone have one already built out, that is current? Some folks on the discord helped me start him, but i'm looking for a smart way to level him... which gear should i be aiming for/farming for? I'm cool with multiclassing too, but it isn't necessary. This isn't going to be for reapers, just normal leveling for fun with my arti-wife.

That's because it's basically the same as a normal Paladin, just slightly different starting stats :) I'd still recommend THF Paladin even with the Str penalty.

Paladin 20 is quite solid by itself, if you don't want to multiclass it's still great. If you plan on TRing at 20 you could take a Fighter level early on for Haste Boost, but it's not a big deal either way (depends on how much you like buttons :p).

Assuming you're 28BP with no tomes, I'd recommend 16 Str and 14 Cha/Con. That'll get you your THF feats early, and running Power Attack is fine for a first-life (after your first life you'll have more BP and at least a +2 tome from 1750 favor so you can start 11 Dex and run Precision instead). All level-ups into Str for more DPS :D

Skills: Intimidate, Jump, UMD, Heal - in about that order (can stop taking Jump once you have ~10 ranks)

Feats:
(1) THF
(3) Power Attack (take Precision on later lives assuming 11 Dex +2 Tome)
(6) ITHF
(9) Improved Critical: Slashing (favored weapon Greatsword)
(12) Greater THF
(15) Force of Personality (never fail Will saves again)
(18) Quicken Spell (QoL)
(21) Overwhelming Critical
(24) Toughness or Empowered Healing
(26D) Perfect THF
(27) Blinding Speed (there's gear that does this but first-life probs doesn't have)
(28D) Perfect TWF (for Doublestrike)
(29D) Dire Charge
(30) Epic Damage Reduction
(30L) Scion of Arborea

Destiny feats require you to have specific ED trees full; if you don't have those yet, take whatever you can get (Deific Warding, Toughness, etc).

Enhancements:
First 2-4 points into SaD for +Lay on Hands
Then KotC until you have Core 3 or so, picking up Exalted Cleave, +Strikethrough, etc
Then into SaD for +15 PRR/MRR on stance & stance (toggle on for 25 PRR/MRR which is great)
Afterwards keep spending into both trees, rule of thumb about 2/3 into KotC 1/3 into SaD. Make sure you pick up +20% HP from SaD (and +6 Str later), and KotC T3 Holy Combatant (favored Greatswords). Tier 5 & all Cores of KotC, aim for Core 5 into SaD.

Outside of Reaper, THF Paladin is an absolute beast; an unstoppable juggernaut with AOE DPS, great survivability, good saves, and healing. It's good inside Reaper too :p

Grab a greatsword, gear up melee & tanky stuff and ideally stuff Devotion & Wizardry somewhere so you can throw more heals (CLW will take you far in Elite). Str > Cha > Con for stats (Cha gives +saves and +DPS when Divine Might is running which it will be after earlygame).

------

That what you're looking for?

[SpartanKiller13]

Race: dwarf 2nd life/past life barb
32 pt +4 tomes excl. cha

flavour elements
gear: leather armour & cap, battle-axe
traits: good foot speed, invisibility, welsh folk lore based (so more fey type than LoTR), good spot/search//hide/move silently, hunting/tracking, good fighter
Rage req (PLF Barb will suffice), grumpy, gruff, rants, sullen etc

General
hand/battle/dwarven axes acceptable - single weapon w'empty off-hand SWF or THF w'DA acceptable
dex/int/wis to hit/dam using enhancements acceptable or str or TYWA acceptable

Please and thank you.

I'm gonna throw some ideas out, LMK what you think; there's a lot of ways this can go so I'd rather not go down the wrong rabbit hole.

Invisibility breaks when you hit something, so you'll be using it a lot. This makes me think Wizard 1+ for Archmage SLA (1 SP/cast, free Quicken). The problem is that you can't cast while Raging, so you're going to need a lot of Rage uses. PLF Barb is +1, but you really need FB T1 for +6 Rages which means Barb 1+ as well.

Do you have Feydark Illusionist? Might help with the Fey lore part, otherwise all I can think of is like Fey pact Warlock which is a spicy class split lol. Maybe ES aura + Barb stuff? I don't know much Welsh folk lore so I'm not very useful there; what sorts of things have you been considering?

For a Flavor build good fighting can come from one tree; so far that's probably one of the Barb trees so Barb 5+ then. FB is cheapest and best AoE DPS (probs worst single-target though), OS is best in groups, and Ravager is best solo sustain + best with axes.

SWF with handaxe really makes me want to recommend Swashbuckling. There's a really entertaining BardBarian niche where you can swashbuckle a handaxe with Frenzied Berserker T5 for a hilariously good crit profile (15-20/x5) but then you're stuck with a bunch of wasted enhancements and using handaxes. THF feats w/DA is probably much more effective (given most of DDO is AoE trash). Especially if you're going into FB for other stuff anyway, the +Strikethrough is really nice for DA's.

Foot speed is a Barb thing too (base 10% boost, FB T1 Athletics gives 35% Sprint Boost on-Rage, FB T2 Sprint Boost) and most other available bonuses are pretty small.

Spot/Search/Hide/MS aren't easy skills for a Barb so maybe worth picking up a few levels of Ranger or Rogue; Ranger seems to fit the theme more, and with 6+ you could get Camouflage + Pass with No Trace for +10 Hide/+8 MS as well.

Leather Armor is fine all around, just pick up some -ASF in an augment (ask your guildies) and call it a day.

TL;DR: depending on what meets your Lore Based requirements I'd be looking at a 12/6/2 (or 11/6/3) Barbarian/Ranger/Wizard, using mainly a Barb tree (OS or Ravager depending on how much you party) with a bunch of FB support and Archmage T1 for Invis SLA. 12/6/2 gets +1 Rage use and Core 4's, 11/6/3 gets Blur SLA and 2nd-level Wizard spells (Fog Cloud? Hypnotic Pattern? Idk what's fey-ish).

[black_pearl2001]

I'm gonna throw some ideas out, LMK what you think; there's a lot of ways this can go so I'd rather not go down the wrong rabbit hole.

Invisibility breaks when you hit something, so you'll be using it a lot. This makes me think Wizard 1+ for Archmage SLA (1 SP/cast, free Quicken). The problem is that you can't cast while Raging, so you're going to need a lot of Rage uses. PLF Barb is +1, but you really need FB T1 for +6 Rages which means Barb 1+ as well.

Rage is actually a non-combat component of his character. He rants and loses his temper and has angry outbursts daily but in battle he is cool headed, so PLF is sufficient for flavour purposes. His first life was barb/ranger split so I wouldn't mind trying something a little different although not against another barb PL.


Do you have Feydark Illusionist? Might help with the Fey lore part, otherwise all I can think of is like Fey pact Warlock which is a spicy class split lol. Maybe ES aura + Barb stuff? I don't know much Welsh folk lore so I'm not very useful there; what sorts of things have you been considering?

I have all the universal trees. Feydark SLA's I consider to suit the overall flavour of being unseen.


For a Flavor build good fighting can come from one tree; so far that's probably one of the Barb trees so Barb 5+ then. FB is cheapest and best AoE DPS (probs worst single-target though), OS is best in groups, and Ravager is best solo sustain + best with axes.

SWF with handaxe really makes me want to recommend Swashbuckling. There's a really entertaining BardBarian niche where you can swashbuckle a handaxe with Frenzied Berserker T5 for a hilariously good crit profile (15-20/x5) but then you're stuck with a bunch of wasted enhancements and using handaxes. THF feats w/DA is probably much more effective (given most of DDO is AoE trash). Especially if you're going into FB for other stuff anyway, the +Strikethrough is really nice for DA's.

Not against either of these.


Foot speed is a Barb thing too (base 10% boost, FB T1 Athletics gives 35% Sprint Boost on-Rage, FB T2 Sprint Boost) and most other available bonuses are pretty small.

Fast movement from monk/rogue/bard levels and/or sprint boost from Falconry or Tempest will suffice but point cost is an issue.


Spot/Search/Hide/MS aren't easy skills for a Barb so maybe worth picking up a few levels of Ranger or Rogue; Ranger seems to fit the theme more, and with 6+ you could get Camouflage + Pass with No Trace for +10 Hide/+8 MS as well.

Agreed.


Leather Armor is fine all around, just pick up some -ASF in an augment (ask your guildies) and call it a day.

I have said augments.


TL;DR: depending on what meets your Lore Based requirements I'd be looking at a 12/6/2 (or 11/6/3) Barbarian/Ranger/Wizard, using mainly a Barb tree (OS or Ravager depending on how much you party) with a bunch of FB support and Archmage T1 for Invis SLA. 12/6/2 gets +1 Rage use and Core 4's, 11/6/3 gets Blur SLA and 2nd-level Wizard spells (Fog Cloud? Hypnotic Pattern? Idk what's fey-ish).

Aside from possibly dropping the barb for something else for variety and noting if feydark tree used then blur SLA available there too, splits agreeable.


General add. I sometimes gets tremors in my hands and intense gameplay is beyond me. Less frenzied button pushing preferred (combat wise).

[magaiti]

Race: dwarf 2nd life/past life barb
32 pt +4 tomes excl. cha

flavour elements
gear: leather armour & cap, battle-axe
traits: good foot speed, invisibility, welsh folk lore based (so more fey type than LoTR), good spot/search//hide/move silently, hunting/tracking, good fighter
Rage req (PLF Barb will suffice), grumpy, gruff, rants, sullen etc

General
hand/battle/dwarven axes acceptable - single weapon w'empty off-hand SWF or THF w'DA acceptable
dex/int/wis to hit/dam using enhancements acceptable or str or TYWA acceptable

Please and thank you.

6 fighter / 12 bard / 2 rogue, swashbuckling, light armor, handaxe + buckler

stats: max con, some cha, 13 dex (with tomes) for Precision
Feats: SWF line, Shield Mastery line, imp.crit, precision
AP:
18 dwarf (TYWA)
34 Swashbuckler (T5: Exploit Weakness, Tread the Needle)
11 Kensei (Core 3 for +1 crit multi)
13 Stalwart Defender (T3: +6 con)
possibly 3 feydark (CHA to hit)

fast movement: Swashbuckler T2
invisibility: bard spell
spot/search//hide/move silently: rogue skills
hunting/tracking: dunno, but at least has a few wilderness lore feats from bard levels
good fighter: 6 fighter levels (duh)

[black_pearl2001]

6 fighter / 12 bard / 2 rogue, swashbuckling, light armor, handaxe + buckler

stats: max con, some cha, 13 dex (with tomes) for Precision
Feats: SWF line, Shield Mastery line, imp.crit, precision
AP:
18 dwarf (TYWA)
34 Swashbuckler (T5: Exploit Weakness, Tread the Needle)
11 Kensei (Core 3 for +1 crit multi)
13 Stalwart Defender (T3: +6 con)
possibly 3 feydark (CHA to hit)

fast movement: Swashbuckler T2
invisibility: bard spell
spot/search//hide/move silently: rogue skills
hunting/tracking: dunno, but at least has a few wilderness lore feats from bard levels
good fighter: 6 fighter levels (duh)

Thanks for the reply, however CHA as primary stat doesn't fit the flavour of the character and he doesn't use a buckler.

[Tyson]

------

That what you're looking for?[/QUOTE]

It is - thank you!

[Sir_Noob]

Hi there, thinking of a Morninglord Cleric / Wiz, Going Undead / EK / Divine build, wielding Maul's.

Would like advice on best level splits, Stats etc. Which tree to invest in the heaviest. Which Domain?

Never played a divine before.

[Discpsycho]

Hi there, thinking of a Morninglord Cleric / Wiz, Going Undead / EK / Divine build, wielding Maul's.

Would like advice on best level splits, Stats etc. Which tree to invest in the heaviest. Which Domain?

Never played a divine before.

Morninglord only allows Amaunator; for Silvanus you'll need PDK, Scourge, Deep Gnome or Shadar-kai. Are you more willing to lose the Silvanus crit range bonus or the PL?

[Sir_Noob]

Morninglord only allows Amaunator; for Silvanus you'll need PDK, Scourge, Deep Gnome or Shadar-kai. Are you more willing to lose the Silvanus crit range bonus or the PL?

Thank you for the eye opener, indeed sadness abounds as I have to rethink it, I suspect I would go to Deep Gnome from the list.

I am going to have to rethink the Morninglord for a past life now too.

[Dr-Duckie]

Hi everyone,

I'm a returning player with 10 years since I last played. I have a 20+ Lesser heart on a Halfling Monk with a STR +1 Tome, Dex +1 Tome and WIS +1 Tome used and I was wondering what I could make with this? My understanding is that I'm 'locked' to Halfling but can change everything else, so looking for any Halfling 28 point build that is currently good into endgame to get me started again.
I saw a Warforged STR Monk (Strimtom) that promised to be fun levelling, so I'm not strongly attached to Monk for this guy.

Thanks in advance

[Myrrae]

Returning players looking for two builds. We have through Ravenloft. We will be playing in a group of 4 with a rogue and a tanky warlock.

First request: Greatsword wielding paladin. Has past life ranger x 3, paladin x2, barbarian x1. Wants to DPS but not be a glass canon.

Second request: Favored Soul generalist. Past life sorc x 3, wizard x 1, rogue x 1, paladin x 1. Since we're all returning looking for general support / damage / heals / cc,. Doesn't have to be FvS but not really looking for pure Bard. Melee or ranged are both fine.

We're all level 22-23 right now so could farm some additional gear as well, but there have been enough changes that reincarnating seems like a good idea.

Thanks!!

[magaiti]

Returning players looking for two builds. We have through Ravenloft. We will be playing in a group of 4 with a rogue and a tanky warlock.

First request: Greatsword wielding paladin. Has past life ranger x 3, paladin x2, barbarian x1. Wants to DPS but not be a glass canon.

Second request: Favored Soul generalist. Past life sorc x 3, wizard x 1, rogue x 1, paladin x 1. Since we're all returning looking for general support / damage / heals / cc,. Doesn't have to be FvS but not really looking for pure Bard. Melee or ranged are both fine.

We're all level 22-23 right now so could farm some additional gear as well, but there have been enough changes that reincarnating seems like a good idea.

Thanks!!

Paladin 20, any race, any deity, weapon: any greatsword.
Knight of the Chalice tree has enhancement which makes greatsword into a favored weapon. suggested AP distribution(80): 41 KotC (T5 & capstone), 31 SD (core 5), 8 Vistani (Haste Boost)

FvS: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/508117-A-holy-inquisitor-that-just-feels-right?p=6245173

[painkiller3]

i ran a 12 rogue/5 barb/3 bard shadarkai build with handaxes and while the damage was good, i would like to be more durable. 17 barbarian/3 bard? i'm okay with using a +1 heart

[BoBJones17]

Hello there.

I'm planning on getting a PDK life and, possibly, park my toon at 30 for a while, but pure fighter proved to be complicated to me the last time i tried. I usually play at odd hours when the server is almost empity and i cant solo stuff due to fighters lack o self heals.

Im looking for a build that have at least 1 fighter level (maybe more if neeeded) and, at the same time, is able to solo at least r1 after levle 15. Build must also be dps viable at end game and allow heavy armor usage.

Please keep in mind that when i say "at least 1 fighter level maybe more..." i mean the build must have need of sutch fighter levels, i intend to park it at 30 for a while and not having a class capstone can make a big difrence if your build is not planned for it.

I also apologize for my grammar and / or orthography, english is not my first language.

I have +8 tomes and most end game thw related gear.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[unbongwah]

i ran a 12 rogue/5 barb/3 bard shadarkai build with handaxes and while the damage was good, i would like to be more durable. 17 barbarian/3 bard? i'm okay with using a +1 heart
Define "more durable." Higher PRR/MRR? More self-healing? More self-buffs? Without knowing what kills you the most, it's hard to say what you need the most to survive better.

[Myrrae]

Looking for a solo / duo character who can trap, and alchemist looks fun. Probably a 34 point build with a monk PL, but it's mostly something to tool around on when my friends are unavailable. Starting at level 1, probably would like to run on Elite. Can boost stats with tomes if the build calls for it. Returning player so gear is pretty much outdated,but something to figure out!

I've heard artificer > rogue for the splash because alchemist can get evasion? I can also pick up Inquisitive tree, but first trying to figure out the right class split, and then working out specifics of build. Bombs sound fun.

Thanks!

[unbongwah]

I've heard artificer > rogue for the splash because alchemist can get evasion?
Alchemists can take the Liquid Luck feat: "You gain Evasion (requires Alchemist 12)." So you can run a pure Alchemist and still get Evasion; or in your case, Alchemist 18 / Artificer 2 with Inquisitive. [Alchemist 18 / rogue 2 still works fine for those without Artificer.] You can go into Bombardier as your secondary DPS tree; or Vile Chemist to take advantage of poison damage applying to your crossbows.

Alchemists can also take the Battalion Brew feat - "INT to hit and damage with Simple weapons (requires Alchemist 4)" - which saves a few APs in Harper. Might not sound like much of an advantage, but it would allow you to take e.g. 41 Inquisitive (capstone) / 31 Vile Chemist or Bombadier (level 18 core Enhancement) / 8 Harper (still want Know the Angles).

Finally remember that Alchemists take full arcane spell failure so plan accordingly if you want to equip light / medium armor.

[Annex]

Hey. About 8 months ago, after asking for advice in this thread, I rebuilt my Paladin to modern standards based around Two Weapon Fighting. She is just about to complete her third Epic go round and will soon have all her Destiny Spheres filled. While she inflicts decent damage and generates excellent self healing, she is rather boring to play and not nearly as sturdy as I had hoped. I fear the Epic Destiny overhaul will significantly reduce her survival potential.

While I intend to keep the aforementioned Paladin, I am now planning to create a different character for solo play with significantly improved durability. I have only played 6 classes--Bard (okay so far), Cleric (horrible), Fighter (sucked), Paladin (boring but decent), Rogue (fun but weak), and Wizard (terrible)--and want to try something new.

I would like to create a character with as many Hit Points as possible, excellent self healing, high Physical Resistance Rating, good Magical Resistance Rating, good damage output, and one or more level of Artificer or Rogue for traps. She needs to function in Epic levels under the new rules. A ranged character would increase survival potential but I do not own Inquisitive. Another melee character is fine. The character must be a Good Human.

I do not need a full build but would appreciate suggestions for a class (or classes) along with the high points I should strive for.

Thank you for your consideration.

[painkiller3]

Define "more durable." Higher PRR/MRR? More self-healing? More self-buffs? Without knowing what kills you the most, it's hard to say what you need the most to survive better.

more durable = higher PRR/MRR and hp to me

[unbongwah]

Bard (okay so far), Cleric (horrible), Fighter (sucked), Paladin (boring but decent), Rogue (fun but weak), and Wizard (terrible)

. . .

I would like to create a character with as many Hit Points as possible, excellent self healing, high Physical Resistance Rating, good Magical Resistance Rating, good damage output, and one or more level of Artificer or Rogue for traps.
Uhh you pretty much just described "paladin but with a trapper splash." Without knowing what you liked and disliked about those classes, it's difficult to make specific suggestions.

A ranged character would increase survival potential but I do not own Inquisitive.
What about Horizon Walker? Or Vistani Knife Fighter? Or Alchemist?

[unbongwah]

more durable = higher PRR/MRR and hp to me
Did you want to stick to handaxe Swashbuckler? That's going to constrain your options, since you need to use light armor for Swashbuckling.

[Tilomere]

Define "more durable." Higher PRR/MRR? More self-healing? More self-buffs? Without knowing what kills you the most, it's hard to say what you need the most to survive better.



I would like to create a character with as many Hit Points as possible, excellent self healing, high Physical Resistance Rating, good Magical Resistance Rating, good damage output, and one or more level of Artificer or Rogue for traps.

Maybe this (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/525873-Basic-SDK-Paladin) helps.

[Annex]

Uhh you pretty much just described "paladin but with a trapper splash." Without knowing what you liked and disliked about those classes, it's difficult to make specific suggestions.

Hello unbongwah and thank you for responding. You are right and I will try to figure something out for myself.

Edit: I made a L7 Barbarian using a two handed sword but she played too much like a Paladin so I deleted her. Next I made an unarmed L7 Monk, then an unarmed Monk 6 Rogue 1, then a staff Monk 6 Rogue 1.

After a couple hours of play I still could not figure out how to use the Monk Builders to compose and execute a Finishing Move. I was expecting it to work like a Warden in The Lord of the Rings Online but never found the equivalent of a Gambit Panel. Staff attacks basically work the same as two handed sword attacks and are not terribly interesting.


Maybe this (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/525873-Basic-SDK-Paladin) helps.

Thank you for the reply, Tilomere. Most of that character was over my head and I want to play a Good Human, but perhaps I can learn something from it.

[painkiller3]

Maybe this (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/525873-Basic-SDK-Paladin) helps.

i saw your build in the barbarian thread, but it doesn't have any barbarian or swashbuckler :) I am hoping to leverage the extra DPS of the swashbuckler bonuses and the FB bonuses as well as the bonus dps from shadar kai chain attack.

[unbongwah]

After a couple hours of play I still could not figure out how to use the Monk Builders to compose and execute a Finishing Move. I was expecting it to work like a Warden in The Lord of the Rings Online but never found the equivalent of a Gambit Panel.
https://ddowiki.com/page/Finishing_Moves

tl;dr summary: Make three basic ki attacks in the right combination to "prime" a finishing move, then activate it when you want to use it. Usually I will map the finisher and ki attack buttons to my main toolbar; the finisher button will be inactive until it is "charged" with a move you can use.

All monks start with the same four elemental ki attacks (Earth/Air/Fire/Water). At level 3 you choose your Path which grants an unique ki attack and added finishing moves based on it. Light is focused on self-healing and intended for Shintao (unarmed); Dark is (supposedly) focused on DPS and intended for Ninja (weapons); Henshin is for staff monks and can go with either path (they also get Void Strike from their tier-5 Enhancements).

[Tilomere]

i saw your build in the barbarian thread, but it doesn't have any barbarian or swashbuckler :)

You aren't trying to do the exact same thing, but expect a different result are you? :)

[Myrrae]

Alchemists can take the Liquid Luck feat: "You gain Evasion (requires Alchemist 12)." So you can run a pure Alchemist and still get Evasion; or in your case, Alchemist 18 / Artificer 2 with Inquisitive. [Alchemist 18 / rogue 2 still works fine for those without Artificer.] You can go into Bombardier as your secondary DPS tree; or Vile Chemist to take advantage of poison damage applying to your crossbows.

Alchemists can also take the Battalion Brew feat - "INT to hit and damage with Simple weapons (requires Alchemist 4)" - which saves a few APs in Harper. Might not sound like much of an advantage, but it would allow you to take e.g. 41 Inquisitive (capstone) / 31 Vile Chemist or Bombadier (level 18 core Enhancement) / 8 Harper (still want Know the Angles).

Finally remember that Alchemists take full arcane spell failure so plan accordingly if you want to equip light / medium armor.

OK, trying to adapt the Vile Thrower build you listed elsewhere... copied it and made some edits... Is this reasonable? Also not sure what to do with enhancements.


Drow Artquisemist
18/2 Alchemist/Artificer
True Neutral Drow


Level Order

1. Artificer
-> Alchemist
Not sure when to take second level of Arti.


Stats
Supreme Tome +2

Stats before Tome:
Str: 8
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Int: 18
Wis: 10
Cha:12

Skills:
Priority skills:
Concentration
Spellcraft
Disable Device
Search
Spot
UMD

After others are maxed:
Open Lock, Balance, Jump, Swim as available.
1 point in Tumble for trained.


Feats

1 : Point Blank Shot
3 : Precise Shot
5 Alchemi: Battalion Brew
6 : Rapid Shot
9 : Precision
9 Alchemi: Liquid Luck
12 : Improved Critical: Ranged
14 Alchemi: Maximize Spell
15 : Spell Focus: Conjuration
18 : Improved Precise Shot
18 Alchemi: Empower Spell OR Alchemical Studies: Orchidium
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike OR Pierce Damage Reduction: Silver
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction OR Intensify Spell
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Epic Reflexes OR Watchful Eye
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Enhancements:
Um - inquistor stuff and anything that gives me more Int / Dex / Haste boost?

[Annex]

https://ddowiki.com/page/Finishing_Moves

tl;dr summary: Make three basic ki attacks in the right combination to "prime" a finishing move, then activate it when you want to use it. Usually I will map the finisher and ki attack buttons to my main toolbar; the finisher button will be inactive until it is "charged" with a move you can use.

All monks start with the same four elemental ki attacks (Earth/Air/Fire/Water). At level 3 you choose your Path which grants an unique ki attack and added finishing moves based on it. Light is focused on self-healing and intended for Shintao (unarmed); Dark is (supposedly) focused on DPS and intended for Ninja (weapons); Henshin is for staff monks and can go with either path (they also get Void Strike from their tier-5 Enhancements).

Thank you again, unbongwah. Last night, I finally figured out that a Monk plays like a low level Warden from The Lord of the Rings Online. Unfortunately, that does not suit my needs.

So...

I am once again looking for a new character to play. :( I intend to create three new characters that will stay at Level 30 for group and solo play, mostly gathering equipment.

After considering what you wrote previously, character one will be an 18 Paladin / 2 Rogue, built for two hand fighting. She will follow the pattern of my existing 20 Paladin.

For character two, I want something that can solo a quest but also support a group. Once or twice a week, I would like to host a group running Legendary Quests on Reaper Mode 1. Once a week, I wish to host some of the easier Raids, the ones I know. My hope is to find other pleasant players like myself, wishing to gain a foothold into Reaper Mode while playing in a meaningful group. Once upon a time, I hosted Epic Daily groups on a regular basis. From that experience, I know that sometimes I must lead from the front while other times, it is best to support from a trailing position. Most of the time, I will need to handle traps. Therefore, I need a character who can safely serve as the tip of the spear, provide support, disable traps, and raise fallen group members. That last is super important. A Ring of the Ancestors only has one charge and I only have a few of them.

There is an additional complication. My current stockpile of Legendary equipment is extremely limited. Initially, this character must make due with (the best possible) Cannith Crafted equipment. It seems likely her first Legendary equipment will come from Epic Crafting, then Saltmarsh. At this time, she cannot access Feywild, Ravenloft, Saltmarsh, or Sharn.

If you are now thinking, "That Paladin Rogue can do everything you just described.", you are _right_. That was a very good suggestion and I am already working on that character. Now I am looking for something else for variety.

I kinda wanna play another ranged character. They are not the best for leading from the front but a fast ranged character can circle kite. Is there a fast ranged character with high defenses that can shoot on the move, heal, raise, and ward?

As before, the character must be a Good Human. She cannot be a Pale Master or any Warlock accept Celestial Pact. I own all Classes accept Alchemist. The only extra tree I own is Vistani Knife Fighter.

Simple enough, right? :eek:

[wax_on_wax_off]

So I read the patch notes for today and saw that Dragonborns will now be able to use Cold Breath druid spell while in Wolf Form so I'm wondering what is the best way to leverage that into a build.

Does Cold Breath get Breath and Evocation DCs? How do the DCs for Relentless Breath work?

[DaviMOC]

Got a dwarf ranger at lvl 8 axe user. I was thinking about multiclass as Tempest capstone is so Dex focused . Any suggestions? Maybe Barb, what split? Get me a link if you have one. thx.

[Oliphant]

Makes something powerful at endgame taking advantage of named loot with more than average number of augment slots and fancy augments.

[dccoston1991]

Returning Player here, Haven't touched the game in over two years.

I have +8 Tomes across the board from a sale when they came out I have 4 TRs (3 Rogue Life, 1 Monk Life) and I last played an 18/2 Rogue/Arti Split Inquis so that's what I have the gear for hence that's what I want to make, Edit: I also have access to 36 pt build and I think Vet I and II status.

I always liked trapping and generally being a utility player and I would love to get back in to end game raiding but am looking for a build that fits the current meta and nerfs without needing to farm 4 sets of gear between heroic and legendary.

What do you have for me? Theres 224 pages as of this posting on this thread. gotta be something.

[Tymani]

It will probably be some type of inquisitive, but do I splash some fighter or ranger to go with rogue? Artificer has to have the most levels.

[C-Dog]

(@ new(er) players - Inquisitive tree (https://ddowiki.com/page/Inquisitive_enhancements) is the current META, and you can earn Inquis via Favor if 1) you have the Masterminds of Sharn pack, and 2) you run them all (late Heroics, Level 15++).

Without Inquis, you can still be strong with a Repeater build (& if you do have/acquire Inquis, just change the AP spread for any repeater build, done.)

@ Tymani...
ome type of inquisitive, but do I splash some fighter or ranger to go with rogue?
Either can work. Arti can be a medium (or heavy!) armor-user, relying on PRR. 2 levels of Rogue swap that to light armor & Evasion, but either works well (just differently).

With Fighter, you go Stalward Defender and get even more PRR with free Fighter Feats, and Kensai's Damage Boost is money (start w/ +8/+8 for low heroics, respec later).

With Ranger, again, free Feats (tho' you have to plan your leveling in advance to use them to best effect), similarly both some good offensive and defensive AP tree options, a lot more skill points than Fighter, and a (very) few additional spells (spec. Jump).

Both work (see below)


@ dccoston...
... without needing to farm 4 sets of gear between heroic and legendary.
No one "needs" that - but it helps! All depends how strong you want to be, whether the time to swap to "the best" gear and then crushing content is worth the time savings to you.

But, admittedly, Inquis "needs" it even less - it's strong, so strong that you can literally overlay it over almost(?) any class mix and it will carry the build with just a decent droploot crossbow and typical droploot gear for any Ranged build.


Anyway, here are a few:

o discussion "best Inquis splits" https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/507389-Best-Inquisitive-split?p=6236801&viewfull=1#post6236801

o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/517293-Artificer-Inquisitive-build (also gear)

o FvS w/ Inquis is popular: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/508117-A-holy-inquisitor-that-just-feels-right?p=6245173&viewfull=1#post6245173
& Cleric https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/507076-Cleric-with-full-traps-and-DPS-Inquisitor?p=6231819&viewfull=1#post6231819

@ Tymani & dccoston - these:
o front-loaded, specialized for Heroic RR/TR (not optimized for Epic) https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/488109-12-Artificer-6-Fighter-2-Monk-Reaper-Build?p=6079661&viewfull=1#post6079661 & https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/505941-8-Ranger-8-Rogue-4-Arti-Inquisitor-Heroic-TR-build?p=6215664&viewfull=1#post6215664
(swap out Monk for Rogue if Iconic)



o & 3 Repeaters suggested earlier in this thread, not spec'd as Inquis (easy AP swap): https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/117232-Request-a-Build-Get-a-Build?p=6127671&viewfull=1#post6127671

[eldersinger]

Hi all,

First off, congratulations on keeping this thread so strong for so long. Thank you for all your work!

Now for the request - I'm looking to find a build for my next heroic life. I've played bards for my three heroic lives and absolutely loved them all (Swashbuckling, Spellsinger, and Warchanter), but I'd like to start getting some other heroic past lives. I don't necessarily need a full build, but does anyone have a suggestion for what race/class/style would fit these parameters?

1) Class: Have all except Alchemist & Warlock, already have my Bard past lives.
2) Race: Preference for Human
- Have access to: base + Horc, Helf, Warforged, Drow
3) Enhancement trees: All unlockable except Feydark Illusionist
4) Goal is to be able to solo R1 in heroics with minimal reliance on gear. (Since all the gear I have is mostly for bards!)
- Traditionally when attempting to solo R1 in my bard lives the thing that stood in my way the most was traps. Being able to handle traps (not necessarily disable them) is a high priority.

As an aside when I'm thinking about this - would y'all say that heroic past lives are more important or racial past lives?

Thank you so much in advance!

[Ahrimane]

Hello y'all, right now i'm a 18 druid/2 thief, kh elf, and I know i'm not doing the damage I should be, so need a good build for this, I will eventually need some great builds for sorceror, wizard, fighter and bard, for the last 4 races don't matter though i've already done drow 3 times, khorvaine elf 3 times, aasimar 2 times, half orc 1 time, wood elf 1 time, gnome 3 times, halfling 1 time at the moment so any and all help would be appreciated and thank you in advance.

[Discpsycho]

Now for the request - I'm looking to find a build for my next heroic life. I've played bards for my three heroic lives and absolutely loved them all (Swashbuckling, Spellsinger, and Warchanter), but I'd like to start getting some other heroic past lives

Do you want something that plays like a Bard, and/or includes some Bard levels? Swashbuckler has good synergy with a lot of different classes, especially in combination with / 2 Rogue, / 3 or / 6 Fighter, or / 5 Barbarian.

IMO, things that feel closest to Bards but aren't Bards would be a melee Druid (wolf or bear) and an EK Wizard. Both come from primary spellcaster classes and therefore have good healing, buffs, and support options

If you're looking for a new playstyle, what are your preferences for melee / ranged / spellcasting?



As an aside when I'm thinking about this - would y'all say that heroic past lives are more important or racial past lives?

It depends.

Specific heroic PLs are better than racial PLs for melee builds (eg, Monk, Paladin), Ranger is particularly good for ranged builds, and most of the caster PLs are good for casters (specifically Wizard, but others as well depending on the types of spells you're casting). Completionist is helpful on many builds.

The stats from Racial PLs are helpful for builds using those stats. Racial AP are excellent for most builds if you have a lot of them but take a lot of investment to get that point.

Personally, I'd shoot for heroic Completionist. If you decide to do something else along the way, many of those PLs will benefit many builds.

[eldersinger]

Do you want something that plays like a Bard, and/or includes some Bard levels? Swashbuckler has good synergy with a lot of different classes, especially in combination with / 2 Rogue, / 3 or / 6 Fighter, or / 5 Barbarian.

...

If you're looking for a new playstyle, what are your preferences for melee / ranged / spellcasting?


Sorry for the delay in response - I figured I should just jump in and pick something so I could be prepared with a better question (I think the original post was too vague - sometimes restriction breeds creativity, you know?) Anyway, in the meantime I've learned that THF Paladin is good, but I have less fun with that playstyle. To directly answer your question, I was looking for a new playstyle to explore, but having done that with the THF Paladin I'd be plenty happy to return to a bard-like playstyle. I've enjoyed blasting away as a caster, I've enjoyed ranged combat, and I've never really tried Sword & Board or TWF.

I think the below is a good summary of what I'm looking for, where "need" means the build must have it, "want" means it's a major plus but not a requirement, and "wish" is a nice little perk. Overall I think the build would be best if it puts more emphasis on heroics than on epics, since heroics is where I most often struggle.

Need:
High Mobility (running around in heavy armor has been a pain)
High Reflex Save & Evasion (traps are my bane)
Non-THF
Race: Human
Class: non-warlock, non-alchemist, main class is not bard (bard splashes are fine - even great)

Want:
AOE damage (I like being a heroic beater)

Wish:
High mobility doesn't rely on an action boost
Buffs and/or Healing (I like being helpful)
Slack in the feats to take a dragonmark

My initial thoughts include the classic wiz w/ rogue splash, or a straight ranger that simply gives up on the AOE damage and easily picks up everything else. Is there some AOE class with rogue splash that I'm missing? I understand that these design requirements sometimes run against each other, but I wouldn't be asking if the build were straightforward ;)

[magaiti]

Sorry for the delay in response - I figured I should just jump in and pick something so I could be prepared with a better question (I think the original post was too vague - sometimes restriction breeds creativity, you know?) Anyway, in the meantime I've learned that THF Paladin is good, but I have less fun with that playstyle. To directly answer your question, I was looking for a new playstyle to explore, but having done that with the THF Paladin I'd be plenty happy to return to a bard-like playstyle. I've enjoyed blasting away as a caster, I've enjoyed ranged combat, and I've never really tried Sword & Board or TWF.

I think the below is a good summary of what I'm looking for, where "need" means the build must have it, "want" means it's a major plus but not a requirement, and "wish" is a nice little perk. Overall I think the build would be best if it puts more emphasis on heroics than on epics, since heroics is where I most often struggle.

Need:
High Mobility (running around in heavy armor has been a pain)
High Reflex Save & Evasion (traps are my bane)
Non-THF
Race: Human
Class: non-warlock, non-alchemist, main class is not bard (bard splashes are fine - even great)

Want:
AOE damage (I like being a heroic beater)

Wish:
High mobility doesn't rely on an action boost
Buffs and/or Healing (I like being helpful)
Slack in the feats to take a dragonmark

My initial thoughts include the classic wiz w/ rogue splash, or a straight ranger that simply gives up on the AOE damage and easily picks up everything else. Is there some AOE class with rogue splash that I'm missing? I understand that these design requirements sometimes run against each other, but I wouldn't be asking if the build were straightforward ;)


Rogue Thief Acrobat - if you can tolerate THF (staff)
Henshin Monk - again THF (staff)
Ranger Tempest - has a solid AoE option with Dance of Death (Tempest T5)
Shadar-Kai Rogue Assassin / Ninja Spy - chain is the AoE option, not human.

[eldersinger]

Rogue Thief Acrobat - if you can tolerate THF (staff)
Henshin Monk - again THF (staff)
Ranger Tempest - has a solid AoE option with Dance of Death (Tempest T5)
Shadar-Kai Rogue Assassin / Ninja Spy - chain is the AoE option, not human.

Thanks for the help!

[CrackedIce]

i ran a 12 rogue/5 barb/3 bard shadarkai build with handaxes and while the damage was good, i would like to be more durable. 17 barbarian/3 bard? i'm okay with using a +1 heart

Could go 12 cleric / 5 barbarian / 3 bard and just use cleric for spells and animal domain.

[bout]

I want to do Bastard Sword Kensei. As of now I'm a human and level 5 fighter and I start wondering what kind of enchantments I should aim for. I'd like to increase my ability scores by using colourless enchantments (STR for damage, DEX for AC from light armours, so I can use the passive Dodge buff from Kensei tree, CON for HP and probably WIS for fill saves) but I suppose going full colourless is not the way to go, and I have no idea what other enchantments I should use. I was also considering dipping some Action Points in the Vanguard tree for Secondary Shield Bash. Can you, please, help me out with optimizing my character?

[magaiti]

I want to do Bastard Sword Kensei. As of now I'm a human and level 5 fighter and I start wondering what kind of enchantments I should aim for. I'd like to increase my ability scores by using colourless enchantments (STR for damage, DEX for AC from light armours, so I can use the passive Dodge buff from Kensei tree, CON for HP and probably WIS for fill saves) but I suppose going full colourless is not the way to go, and I have no idea what other enchantments I should use. I was also considering dipping some Action Points in the Vanguard tree for Secondary Shield Bash. Can you, please, help me out with optimizing my character?

I assume you are referring to colorless augments. Those only add to your attributes (str, dex and the like).
A successful melee character needs many other item enchantments.
most important ones are:
Offense: Doublestrike, Melee Alacrity/Speed, Deadly, Accuracy, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Deception.
Defense: Fortification (100+), Deathblock, (Physical) Sheltering, Resistance, Dodge.

Regarding Enhancements (assuming you don't have racial past lives or universal tome, so 80 AP at level 20):
A typical fighter 20 vanguard build would have 41 AP either in Kensei Tree or Vanguard Tree, depending on which capstone you like more.
Regardless, for best DPS, you should have Tier 5 in Kensei, as your weapon does way more damage than your shield anyways.
so 2 variants:
41 kensei, 31 vanguard, 8 as you like, maybe Harper Agent for Know the Angles, or Stalwart Defender for stance.
41 vanguard, 36 kensei, 3 human (power boost, improved recovery)

regarding feats:
For Kensei tree, you need Weapon Focus (slashing for Bastard Sword), Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus.
For combat style, you will need both Shield Mastery feats and Two-Handed Fighting Feats (they work with Bastard Swords, increasing your chance to hit multiple enemies)

other good choices are heavy armor feats (if you plan on using heavy armor), and tactical DCs feats.
With enough tactical DC feats you can use effectively Trip and Stunning Blow to control your enemies, though you can choose to ignore tactical feats and just DPS enemies down.

[bout]

I assume you are referring to colorless augments. Those only add to your attributes (str, dex and the like).
A successful melee character needs many other item enchantments.
most important ones are:
Offense: Doublestrike, Melee Alacrity/Speed, Deadly, Accuracy, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Deception.
Defense: Fortification (100+), Deathblock, (Physical) Sheltering, Resistance, Dodge.

Regarding Enhancements (assuming you don't have racial past lives or universal tome, so 80 AP at level 20):
A typical fighter 20 vanguard build would have 41 AP either in Kensei Tree or Vanguard Tree, depending on which capstone you like more.
Regardless, for best DPS, you should have Tier 5 in Kensei, as your weapon does way more damage than your shield anyways.
so 2 variants:
41 kensei, 31 vanguard, 8 as you like, maybe Harper Agent for Know the Angles, or Stalwart Defender for stance.
41 vanguard, 36 kensei, 3 human (power boost, improved recovery)

regarding feats:
For Kensei tree, you need Weapon Focus (slashing for Bastard Sword), Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus.
For combat style, you will need both Shield Mastery feats and Two-Handed Fighting Feats (they work with Bastard Swords, increasing your chance to hit multiple enemies)

other good choices are heavy armor feats (if you plan on using heavy armor), and tactical DCs feats.
With enough tactical DC feats you can use effectively Trip and Stunning Blow to control your enemies, though you can choose to ignore tactical feats and just DPS enemies down.

What are your thoughts on :


Kensei's Improved Dodge - is it worth investing into over heavier armours?
Human's Human Adaptability and Human Greater Adaptability for Ability Scores - you mentioned 3 points in Human, so that wouldn't cover it?

[C-Dog]

...I'd like to increase my ability scores by using colourless enchantments (STR for damage, DEX for AC from light armours, so I can use the passive Dodge buff from Kensei tree, CON for HP and probably WIS for fill saves) but I suppose going full colourless is not the way to go, and I have no idea what other enchantments I should use...
Augment gems: https://ddowiki.com/page/Augment_Slot#Augment_Slot

Topazes (yellow) tend to be "quality of life" effects - things you can easily get w/ other gear, but using an augment opens other slots to not have to cover that. So, it's very "Current Gear Dependent".


Feather Fall
Fear Immunity
Blindness Immunity
Water Breathing
Swiftness (Run & Attack Speed)
Disease (& Poison) "Immunity" (misleading name, and Poison is meh)
Elemental Resist
+Damage (untyped)


Sapphires (blue) tend to be "Defense" (tho' not exclusively) - if you are leaning toward Armor Class, these can help a lot.


Fortification
Natural Armor
Protection
Resistance
PRR and MRR
False Life
Dodge
Stunning, Sunder or Trip (separate)
Accuracy


Red is Damage and Spellpower, almost always being applied to weapons (or "caster sticks" of some stripe):


Bonus Elemental Damage
Spellpower
Metaline types
Alignment types
Special damage rubies

And there are non-standard ones as well. White is Skills and Stats.

See this list for "full" details: https://ddowiki.com/page/Augment_Slot#Available_Standard_Augments

[magaiti]

What are your thoughts on :


Kensei's Improved Dodge - is it worth investing into over heavier armours?
Human's Human Adaptability and Human Greater Adaptability for Ability Scores - you mentioned 3 points in Human, so that wouldn't cover it?


it's hard to tell for certain, both heavy and light armor styles have their pros and cons.
In heavy armor you will get more PRR/MRR, especially if you invest into fighter-only Heavy Armor feats.
In light armor you will have more dodge, and possibly Evasion (with core 3 in Shadowdancer Epic Destiny).

Dodge is great, but remember:
- dodge is capped by max dex bonus of your armor. There are ways to raise it, like armored agility augment, Mobility feat, and certain enhancements.
- dodge is also capped by a max dodge cap (25%), regardless of armor. This cap can only be raised by effects that specifically mention "max dodge". Notable examples are Fencing Master (Guild Airship buff), Monk Water Stance, Scion of Astral Plane.
- you have to have enough dodge in your build (gear/feats/enhancements), otherwise raising armor max dex bonus and/or max dodge cap is pointless.

Human adaptability gives you +1 stat for 2 AP. 20 Healing Amp is more useful IMO, but you are free to disagree.

[DocTom]

Greetings!

I am looking for a ranged build. My objectives are: 1) soloing EE, low reapers at cap; and, 2) serving a support role in duos/trios with players that spend too much time as soul stones. Historically, I have enjoyed playing the Inquisitive tree. If the build needs too many buttons to push in a hurry, I'll likely be dead so this build will need at least some ability to stand in the pocket for a few secs. (I don't mind moving and jumping when I play - that's kinda the nature of it when mobs get close to an Inquisitive. I just need the penalty for blinking and/or drinking when I play to be somewhat forgiving.)

I like (generally) the 18/2 FVS/arti builds that I've seen in the forum but the WIS/CHA discussion left me in the weeds. Historically, my Inquisitive builds have been more INT or even DEX in ranger/rogue/arti combos so it's hard to think about WIS/CHA since I haven't experienced the direct relevance of these stats to DPS. (I know that they CAN be made relevant by dipping into trees and destinies, but I would appreciate some specific guidance.) As long as we're here, what about a bard/arti inquisitive? Bard is fun to play and looks to be more of a well-rounded party support than FVS, but my experience with both classes isn't very deep.

So, a big question for me is: Do I actually need 18 levels in class 1, or would there be more productive ways to split those levels up?

I have good ranged past-lives but no racial past-lives yet (so AP is pretty standard). All classes, races, trees, and destinies are open/openable to me. Got the good tomes.

I wish that I thought that I could target/mark stuff in combat (I can't even...) because the bow build posts lately have been masterworks!

Specific recommendations for non-raid gear and epic destinies would be appreciated. I have a short window in which to get some new players interested in the game (and to get some older/inactive players back into the game) so I'm seeking to draw on your experience with these things.

Thanks in advance!

[Ungermax]

Is there a viable Undead Dark Path Monk build these days? One that plays just like a light path Monk with similar self sufficiency but focused on negative energy auras and Vamp form, as well as the use of Touch of Death and passive negative energy on hit from Pale Master form upgrades?

[SouCarioca]

Is there a viable Undead Dark Path Monk build these days? One that plays just like a light path Monk with similar self sufficiency but focused on negative energy auras and Vamp form, as well as the use of Touch of Death and passive negative energy on hit from Pale Master form upgrades?

I had something very similar but with dual longswords, centered. I was undoubtedly stretched thin with the wants, so it ended up being a fun, but pure flavor build. Today, I'd do it differently, without the longswords. I had this fixation on dual Oathblades with tons of crits.

[Amithae]

Does anyone have advice for racial choice for favored soul casters?

I'm finishing up my second life on a cleric and have kinda got my heart set on a favored soul nuker for solo play for the third life. I have access to tiefling and shifter, and so my natural inclination was to go tiefling for the potential fire boosts, but I don't have a vast repository of past racial lives, so I wonder if this might be too ambitious? Would I be better off with something else race-wise? The way I see it, the only valuable tree is going to be Angel of Vengeance (with a little splash into Beacon of Hope for the PRR/MRR and a bit of healing amp), so I -should- have enough points for the racial tree still?

I'm new to the game still though, so I could be overlooking something important. Please advise. :)

[Roonfizzle]

Hi!

I failed to live through Chronoscope this evening, so back at square one for Hardcore. I'd like to play an Inquisitive, due to a recent upgrade to Ult Sharn. As it's HC, I'd like to leverage the 32 point start that Deep Gnome or Tiefling Scoundrel offer me, but other than that, I'm less picky.

My quest knowledge is minimal for several HUGE blocks of levels, I have recent Couponage, and also have Drow unlocked for the server.

Other than pumping Dex, and the usefulness of bard, any suggestions on where to start for a build?

I know the basic game mechanics, but am still relatively new to nuances. I suspect Trapper is a poor choice, unless I leverage the Autosearch of deep Inquisitive, though I've heard of Pale Trapper, and know the basic shell, but again, no nuances.

Thank you for any direction you can nudge me.

[Certon]

Now, I'm going to try to make my own build on this idea, and because this topic is seriously TL;DR, I'm gonna hope no one has thought of it yet.

A pure wizard EK/PM Duality Build

This is a high Negative Spellpower PM build with melee skills and melee offense and durability from EK and medium armor, BUT...

WITH also a high Devotion and Exalted Angel as the main destiny, with Angelic Body mantle and Holy Presence.

The idea is to create so much incoming healing that even in low reapers you are nearly impossible to kill. Also the Holy Fireball T5 is pretty crazy.

[Ental]

Hello all,

I have been playing DDO on and off since its inception. I have always loved playing fighters in any iteration of fantasy rpg, and DDO is no different. Specifically, the sword and board fantasy is the most appealing to me. As such, I love the spirit of the fighter's Vanguard tree.

My problem is that I mostly play solo as I am not terribly social in MMOs (defeats the purpose, right?). To make matters worse, I like to experience all the content that any given game has to offer. As such, I find trapping skills - at least search, spot, and open lock - to be essential. Disable device is a plus, but if the build is durable enough to make that unnecessary that's fine too.

Assume I have no stat or skill tomes, but this is going to be a completionist character in the long term, so I plan to acquire every stat and skill tome out there. Again, this build is for racial TRs, so it can't rely on racial enhancement trees. I do not have access to Favored Soul (yet), Artificer, or Alchemist, but if Artificer would be better than Rogue, I will prioritize it as my next points purchase. I would like the build to be able to solo (with a hireling) most if not all of the content in the game on Elite at least, low reaper would be better, but I understand if it's not optimal enough for that.

Thank you in advance!

EDIT: I should have mentioned that I will be going to 30 for ETR -> RTR, so epic advice would be appreciated as well.

[unbongwah]

FYI the Universal Enhancement trees are 20% off until tomorrow (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/530792-DDO-Store-Sales-March-10th-17th). Harper Agent is useful if you're making INT your primary or secondary stat.

For S&B DPS, you basically have two viable options: Vanguard (fighter or paladin) and Swashbuckler (bard).

Vanguard pros: extra stun abilities (Stunning Shield and capstone); Shield Charge / Rush; secondary shield bash bonuses; attack speed bonuses; if you use a bastard sword or dwarven axe, you can benefit from both Two Handed Fighting (https://ddowiki.com/page/Two_Handed_Fighting) (Strikethrough and higher base damage) and Shield Mastery (https://ddowiki.com/page/Shield_Mastery) (extra PRR and doublestrike).
Vanguard cons: Major DPS bonuses are backloaded (e.g., the attack speed bonus are at levels 6/12/18/20) and you have to share APs with your other trees. Splashing costs you the Vanguard capstone which is pretty nice. Fighter or paladin only get 2 skill points per level so not ideal if you want a trapper. Paladin Vanguards are feat-starved.

Swashbuckler pros: DPS bonuses are front-loaded (Swashbuckling stance at bard 3); SWF (https://ddowiki.com/page/Single_Weapon_Fighting) and Shield Mastery will stack if you take the Skirmisher enhancement; 6 skill points per level; bard skill buffs.
Swashbuckler cons: restricted to light armor, Finesseable melee weapons, and bucklers; AoE DPS options are lacking; higher-tier Swashbuckler enhancements are unimpressive.

It's possible to combine the trees on a bard / fighter. The attack speed bonuses from Vanguard don't stack with SWF, but you can still take advantage of the special attacks like Stunning Shield and passive bonuses like Shield Specialization. Also Swashbuckling will stack with Strike with No Thought (level 6 Kensei core) if you use handaxes or light picks.

So the tl;dr summary is Swashbuckler has an easier time of being a trapper due to more skill points + bard buffs. Also I think their DPS scales up faster in low-to-mid heroics though it's kinda tricky to compare "faster attack speed and better crits" vs Strikethrough for clearing trash mobs. But paladin / fighter Vanguard is better suited to the "heavily armored S&B tank" archetype since it's not gear-constrained like Swashbuckler.