Two questions concerning rouges

[Bunzy]

So eventually i want to make a rouge, once I'm more used to the game and have higher levelled 'first' characters, and I wanted to know:

A) Is a face-to-face combat or ranged combat style better for a rouge?

and B) Would it be a good idea to have at least two levels of ranger for my rouge to improve the ranged combat from bow strength and rapid reload-type feats?

[Shade]

A) think its applicable to the face. Not sure about face to face tho.
B) I guess thats why rangers suck, messing around with makeup all the time when they should be learning how to fight.

Honestly I'm not very familiar on the topic of rouge tho, for more information check here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rouge

[Jym]

Can anyone tell me what the pro's / cons are in regards to rouge vs cheek pinching as a means of attaining ruddy cheeked glory?

I've heard that pinching your cheeks repeatedly can cause lasting damage to the blood vessels in your face - should I be using rouge instead?

[Ithrani]

Can anyone tell me what the pro's / cons are in regards to rouge vs cheek pinching as a means of attaining ruddy cheeked glory?

I've heard that pinching your cheeks repeatedly can cause lasting damage to the blood vessels in your face - should I be using rouge instead?

Tissue damage can led to cancer, stick with the rouge.

About Rogues though yes 2 levels of ranger are worth it, to be honest, unless you want to be able to disable the trap in Crucible, the one that needs over a 55 search to find and is the only trap in the game that hard to find and disable, do not go full rogue. 2 levels of ranger 2 levels of fighter are good additions; my build has 10 levels of rogue and 2 of each of the afore mentioned and I can disable any trap on a 1 with out spell buffs or action boost, except that one. Even if you do not range much, I personally prefer TWF, though I whip out my silver bow if I have to and I can tear things up pretty well with it. But the reason I say go TWF or at least 1 handed and a shield is because of treason. You may be wondering "what the hell is treason, except something I can be hung for" It is a named raid loot item that drops out of the gianthold raid(trust me easy raid to do and prep for) What does it do? Well it is a +5 Short Sword with +3/+5 backstabbing, deception(btw all this works on all names and lets you sneak attack more often even if you have agro) and the special ability Treason which gives you an 80% less chance of getting agro, couple that with the subtle backstabber enhancment 20% and you will almost never draw agro by doing damage to a mob that is fixed on someone else, even if you do 100% more damage then the other person. Since I got it my rogue runs with a tank in front of him and the mobs go down faster then a bowling ball off a building. And my last tid-bit, even 1 level of ranger gives you the ability to use cure serious wands (when you hit their min lvl Ie: min lvl 7 wand 6rogue/1ranger=7th lvl it can be used) But 2 levels of ranger is when you get the TWF and a bunch of other stuff. One quick warning, for a long time if you go TWF clerics may hate you, so if it is tough, either play smart and use your tumble or whatever else to stick and move in combat, or use a shield. A rogue/ranger can have a HUGE AC if they use a +5 heavy shield along with their uber high dex. GL if you have an questions send me a PM, I am well versed in both building characters in DDO and PnP. I am a DM as the signature says and a complete geek rules lawyer.

[Bunzy]

Tissue damage can led to cancer, stick with the rouge.

About Rogues though yes 2 levels of ranger are worth it, to be honest, unless you want to be able to disable the trap in Crucible, the one that needs over a 55 search to find and is the only trap in the game that hard to find and disable, do not go full rogue. 2 levels of ranger 2 levels of fighter are good additions; my build has 10 levels of rogue and 2 of each of the afore mentioned and I can disable any trap on a 1 with out spell buffs or action boost, except that one. Even if you do not range much, I personally prefer TWF, though I whip out my silver bow if I have to and I can tear things up pretty well with it. But the reason I say go TWF or at least 1 handed and a shield is because of treason. You may be wondering "what the hell is treason, except something I can be hung for" It is a named raid loot item that drops out of the gianthold raid(trust me easy raid to do and prep for) What does it do? Well it is a +5 Short Sword with +3/+5 backstabbing, deception(btw all this works on all names and lets you sneak attack more often even if you have agro) and the special ability Treason which gives you an 80% less chance of getting agro, couple that with the subtle backstabber enhancment 20% and you will almost never draw agro by doing damage to a mob that is fixed on someone else, even if you do 100% more damage then the other person. Since I got it my rogue runs with a tank in front of him and the mobs go down faster then a bowling ball off a building. And my last tid-bit, even 1 level of ranger gives you the ability to use cure serious wands (when you hit their min lvl Ie: min lvl 7 wand 6rogue/1ranger=7th lvl it can be used) But 2 levels of ranger is when you get the TWF and a bunch of other stuff. One quick warning, for a long time if you go TWF clerics may hate you, so if it is tough, either play smart and use your tumble or whatever else to stick and move in combat, or use a shield. A rogue/ranger can have a HUGE AC if they use a +5 heavy shield along with their uber high dex. GL if you have an questions send me a PM, I am well versed in both building characters in DDO and PnP. I am a DM as the signature says and a complete geek rules lawyer.
Would level 1&2 Ranger/ level 3-? Rouge be a good combination then? I don't think the one trap will be an issue.

[dragnmoon]

Here you go from someone who does not think you should multi class and Why..

a)Face to Face Combat is better.. And this is Why. Rogue Subtle Backstaber which reduces Aggro does not work on Ranged. You will be able to get your sneak attack off more often with out getting Aggro. Still have the ability to range when needed.

b) What you Gain from Multi classing with Fighter or Ranger:
More attack bonus- Not really needed since your backstabbing to hit bonuses will take care of that.
More Hit points - If you can keep aggro off you really do not need to worry about that. My rogue has 114 hps and most of the time he is the last to go down.
More Feats - Feats are good can not argue there
Abilty to use Healing wands with Ranger - That is good but with a Good UMD you do not need the level in ranger.

What you lose by Multi Classing:
Higher level rogue Enhancements - You will be limted by your level on rogue enhancements.
Crippling Strike - 13the level ability that does 2 str dmg on every sneak attack
Sneak attack Dmg- you gain extra Dice level 11 and 13.

My Philospy is that Always build with Level 20 in Mind. At higer Levels a rogue is going to be the Highest DPS Class out there. It is arguable that they already are.

Level 15-19 Rogues will get 3d6 more sneak attack, higher Level Ehancements building on what they have now, and 2 unknown rogue special abilities. Level 20 they get nothing really but I am assuming Turbine will make it worth getting level 20.

I am sure I missed some Gains and Loses.. And I am sure people with mention it. Just mentioned the ones I mostly think about.

[Jaywade]

I have a multi rogue (9rogue/3fighter/2ranger)

I love the toon can do lots of things... I built as more of a ranged fighter and have some awesome bows for him, but sometimes I duel wield a +3 shocking burst rapier and treason in my off hand, next to a good tank the damage I'm able to do is insane... I haven't found a trap I couldn't find or disable (I do have great gear +6 int goggles. +13 search ring, +12 disable bracers) only thing I wish I had more hp...... I'll take him rogue rest of the way for a 15/3/2 build which mean I can add a xtra 8d6 +2 pt of str damage on sneak attacks...I can't wait

[DemonMage]

One thing to keep in mind as a rogue is that undead are the games most common enemy, which vastly weakens a lot of the core class abilities of a rogue combat-wise. Perhaps the few people who stick it out to high level pure rogue don't feel very hindered by this, but it certainly makes me wary of creating a pure rogue.

But hey, times change, content is always being added (though this next patch is full of undead), so it may end up being that all the level 20 content is undead lite and you're shining in your sneak attack, improved evasion, trap disabling, mob eviscerating glory.

[dragnmoon]

Undead are a Rogues Weakness(Same with constructs and Slimes), But do not Forget The are also Immune to Crits which are alot of Fighters Bread and Butter.

Ahh the Glory of the Firewall against Undead :p

[Impaqt]

Treason drops aggro TO 80%. its doesnt reduce it 80%. And what Trap in the Crucible is a 55dc? You mean Cabal maybe?

[Bizbag]

Treason drops aggro TO 80%. its doesnt reduce it 80%. And what Trap in the Crucible is a 55dc? You mean Cabal maybe?

I'm pretty sure it reduces it by 80%, but what I think that means is you must do 80% more damage to draw aggro... so if you have Subtle Backstabber IV and Treason, you don't have -20% aggro (that wouldn't make sense), but you must do 120% more damage to draw aggro.

[cdbd3rd]

Honestly I'm not very familiar on the topic of rouge tho, for more information check here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rouge

ROFL! I love the first line.:D

[Impaqt]

I'm pretty sure it reduces it by 80%, but what I think that means is you must do 80% more damage to draw aggro... so if you have Subtle Backstabber IV and Treason, you don't have -20% aggro (that wouldn't make sense), but you must do 120% more damage to draw aggro.

No, Read the description again. I Have Treason... Its worded goofy.... Its Effect is the same as Rogue Subtle backstabber II.. But it does seem to stack.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/CJGMURPG/DDOitems/Treason.jpg

[The_Cataclysm]

No, Read the description again. I Have Treason... Its worded goofy.... Its Effect is the same as Rogue Subtle backstabber II.. But it does seem to stack.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/CJGMURPG/DDOitems/Treason.jpg

It is very odd that they choose to describe the two effects in the complete opposite manner. Would be nice if they changed the description on treason to match subtle backstabber to avoid any confusion.

[Inkblack]

I have two pure rogues, levels 13 and 14. For the first one I started with ranged combat, but switched to melee at level 12. The second one I went straight TWF all the way. There is no comparing the DPS, IMO.

However, you absolutely must be careful about drawing aggro, especially before you've gotten the subtle backstab enhancements. If you do find yourself pulling aggro, the easiest thing to do is switch to sword and board, or delay before jumping into fights.

If I were forced to multiclass, I would go fighter for the feats since the class is a bit feat starved. However, my personal preference is pure for more sneak attack damage.

Ink