The Warchanter - Man-At-Arm

[kilmior]

The build balances the benefits of 3 classes to bring a character to life with many skills and diversity Let me know what you think.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Neutral Good Elf Female
(2 Fighter \ 2 Ranger \ 10 Bard)
Hit Points: 151 HP = 151 +42 (con items) = 193
Spell Points: 321 SP = 321 +60 (cha item) +70 POP7 = 451
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 14
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 16 19
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 16

With +5 items and a tome (extreme with +6 and 2 tome)
Str = 26 (28)
Dex = 24 (26)
Con = 18 (20)
Cha = 22 (24)


Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage I

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility

Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack I

Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II

Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage II

Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II

Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Warchanter I

Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II

Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II

Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

Level 13 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II

Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I



The level progress is based on unlocking spring attack early. Ranger is taken later as with GH xp, those 2 levels come fast.

Using a long sword, the damage output is good, and although power attack is not ideal for a one handed weapon, the bard buffs and elven bonus negates the "to hit" loss and only increases damage output. (I also think if you have at least a 27 to hit, your good to go) resulting in a decent tank.
Gross to Hit : 11 BAB + 5 Weapon +5 Song + 7 Str +2 Good Hope+2 Elven = 32 (Easy)

Extended Rage with Blur and Displacement will also allow you to go with a Two-Hander and Power Attack turning into a more DPS line

Also with the TWF, feel free to Dual Weld when your feeling frisky.

As the character levels increase beyond 14, you can choose to stay with Bard, increasing song bonus, duration and spell points. Or focus on the fighter feats to improve slashing or pick up SOTR. In this case you can respec your enchantments for the Elven Range attack/damage bonus.

The Bard and Ranger skill points also allow for Max UMD for scroll/item use.

Again this build is one of balance, Master of no one arena but with no weakness either.

Magara / Maegara / Meghan / Tamera / Maegaera

[EinarMal]

I admit I don't get dodge->mobility->spring attack. Maybe for a fighter with a ton of feats to burn but on a Bard? Seems like a waste of three feats to me. TWF without ITWF and GTWF not to mention Improved critical is pretty worthless.

So this build will do sub par damage, be a sub par caster, and have ok songs? Is the Ranger for actually using a bow? If not I would drop that and just go with a two hander and a level of fighter. I don't know seems like you are trying to do too many things here and end up with nothing even above average.

[Deusxmachina]

Again this build is one of balance, Master of no one arena

I guess that sums it up well. I'm mainly just not digging the mix of fighter and ranger since fighter looks to only be for getting the feats for the mobility line, which is dubious. The elf bonuses are nice since they count on both hands, so ranger and TWF makes sense in that regard, but TWF without the higher TWF feats pales to just a plain ol' two-hander, particularly with power attack, and using a two-hander is free.

I'd try to weed out the two fighter levels, or ditch the ranger2 and only take fighter1 since it still qualifies for TWF. A TWF ranger/bard would be fun, bards don't cast well with shields anyway, if you want to keep power attack (usually not a great choice for one-handers, as you said) it could be argued it's mainly to punch through things with high DR. Ranger 11 gets good TWF feats, decent spells, evasion, and bard 9 gets a nice bit of songs and decent spells. I'd consider ranger6/bard8 or ranger5/bard9 currently then the rest ranger levels for level 20.

Ranger 11 is important, and bard 8/9 is important. The other cutoff would be ranger2, but then what to take? The rest bard levels mainly for more song power and some sp? Not bad. Or take just a bunch of fighter levels? eh. Taking one level of fighter and its "free" TWF with your dex sounds better than ranger2. With decent bard levels, UMD will already be maxed, so ranger2 over fighter1 doesn't seem to gain much.

A main thing is about the TWF. It's just not that great without the entire line of feats, and that's including getting racial bonuses on both hands and bard bonuses on both hands. To make TWF worth it, you have to fully commit to it, and if you do commit, it's your choice whether to do it with fighter levels and high dex or ranger levels.

[kilmior]

Excellent feedback. Although I don't agree with being Sub-par. I think "Well rounded" is a better term for the build.

Spring Attack - I just assumed every fighter based character had spring attack. -4 to hit!! That’s like having a curse or not having Greater Heroism. I asked around and you know what...people DON'T have it. That was an awaking.

I am lvl10 and looking at a reroll (favor 1200) is tough. I've respec'd my build to TWF/ITWF/GTWF/Toughness. It will require 3 tokens and 9 days (about the same time as a reroll) but i don't have to repeat all those quests again.

I will maintain 2 Long swords and deal with the -4/-4 vs -2/-2 with a light off hand for RP side. but when needed I’ll have that dagger in my bag.
To hit - 11 + 5 (weapons) -4 TWF + 8 Str + 2 Good hope + 2 Elf + 5 Song +1 W.focus = 30
Better if using light hand and greater heroism.

Again thanks for the perspective and the awaking.
(the order of feats below are based on doing a respec..i hate having to unlock feats just to get to others)


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Neutral Good Elf Female
(4 Fighter \ 10 Bard)
Hit Points: 165
Spell Points: 332
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 12
Will: 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 16 19
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage I

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack I

Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II

Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage II

Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Warchanter I

Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II

Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II

Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack II

Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

[EinarMal]

That looks good and is much better! The thing with spring attack is the mobs it helps the most with, casters who run, have low AC anyway so the -4 doesn't really matter much.

[kilmior]

Thanks.

I was just looking around and came across your
"Warchanting Tempest" build..

Some would say there is a copy-right law in question when looking at my build compared to what you created first. LOL.

[EinarMal]

Thanks.

I was just looking around and came across your
"Warchanting Tempest" build..

Some would say there is a copy-right law in question when looking at my build compared to what you created first. LOL.

Ah no worries there. Great minds think a like! Most of the feats and things are all pretty obvious anyway once you decide to make a TWF Bard.

[nbhs275]

First mock up is very weak. Second is good, but your still blowing way to much for the TWF.

A well built bard 14 will run circles around you in every aspect. Such as my battle bard.

HP: yours..165 before items and rage..
Mine...201 before items and rage..

SP: yours.. 332
Mine.. 826 with wizardry III and cha 4 item

To-hit:

yours..11 + 5 (weapons) -4 TWF + 8 Str + 2 Good hope + 2 Elf + 5 Song +1 W.focus = 30

Mine..10+5 (weapon) -5 PA +9 Str + 4 GH +6 Song= 29, 32 with DP scroll

Damage:

Your longsword: 1d8+5 weapon+8 str + 6 songs + 2 Elf=1d8+21 17-20/x2
My Quarterstaff: 1d6+5 weapon+14 str+6 songs+ 10 PA=1d6+35 19-20/x2


You have no level 5 spells. No devotion to healing. Short haste, and other buffs. Poor saves. Lower hitpoints, spell points, too few spell points to do much or any CC. Please, someone show me the advantage to this build over a pure, well built bard.

[EinarMal]

First mock up is very weak. Second is good, but your still blowing way to much for the TWF.

A well built bard 14 will run circles around you in every aspect. Such as my battle bard.

HP: yours..165 before items and rage..
Mine...201 before items and rage..

SP: yours.. 332
Mine.. 826 with wizardry III and cha 4 item

To-hit:

yours..11 + 5 (weapons) -4 TWF + 8 Str + 2 Good hope + 2 Elf + 5 Song +1 W.focus = 30

Mine..10+5 (weapon) -5 PA +9 Str + 4 GH +6 Song= 29, 32 with DP scroll

Damage:

Your longsword: 1d8+5 weapon+8 str + 6 songs + 2 Elf=1d8+21 17-20/x2
My Quarterstaff: 1d6+5 weapon+14 str+6 songs+ 10 PA=1d6+35 19-20/x2


You have no level 5 spells. No devotion to healing. Short haste, and other buffs. Poor saves. Lower hitpoints, spell points, too few spell points to do much or any CC. Please, someone show me the advantage to this build over a pure, well built bard.

Didn't we already go through this.....this build will KILL your balance Bard in damage output A_Sheep already showed you the math....

NEXT

[EinarMal]

First mock up is very weak. Second is good, but your still blowing way to much for the TWF.

A well built bard 14 will run circles around you in every aspect. Such as my battle bard.

HP: yours..165 before items and rage..
Mine...201 before items and rage..

SP: yours.. 332
Mine.. 826 with wizardry III and cha 4 item

To-hit:

yours..11 + 5 (weapons) -4 TWF + 8 Str + 2 Good hope + 2 Elf + 5 Song +1 W.focus = 30

Mine..10+5 (weapon) -5 PA +9 Str + 4 GH +6 Song= 29, 32 with DP scroll

Damage:

Your longsword: 1d8+5 weapon+8 str + 6 songs + 2 Elf=1d8+21 17-20/x2
My Quarterstaff: 1d6+5 weapon+14 str+6 songs+ 10 PA=1d6+35 19-20/x2


You have no level 5 spells. No devotion to healing. Short haste, and other buffs. Poor saves. Lower hitpoints, spell points, too few spell points to do much or any CC. Please, someone show me the advantage to this build over a pure, well built bard.

Not to mention your sp/hp math is way off...

Warchanting Tempest

Goals:
Basically to be the biggest baddest TWF Bard on the planet. With 4 levels of fighter hit points are closing in on 300 and damage is top notch. At level 15 this build will take weapon spec for an additional +2 damage per swing.

(Drow Male Neutral Warchanter Bard 10/Fighter 4)

Stats:
Str 16 (30 =16 +3 Levels +1 Enh. +2 Tome +6 Item +2 Rage)
Dex 16 (24 =16 +1 Tome +1 Enh. +6 Item)
Con 12 (22 =12 +2 Tome +6 Item +2 Rage)
Int 10 10
Wis 8 8
Cha 16 (24 =16 +1 Tome +1 Enh. +6 Item)

Progression:
1-Bard
2-Fighter
3 thru 5-Bard
6-Fighter
7 thru 11-Bard
12-Figther
13-Bard
14-Fighter

Hit Points @14:
100(Levels) +20(Heroic) +10(Draconic) +30(GFL) +84(Con) +16 (Toughness) + 15(Fighter Toughness II) =275

SP:
275(10 Bard) +114(Cha) +100(Magi) +40(EOM II) = 529

Feats:
Extend
(FB) TWF
WF Piercing
(FB)PA
Toughness
ITWF
IC Piercing
(FB)GTWF

Enhancements:
Inspired Attack II
Inspired Damage II
Inspired Bravery II
Warchanter
Fighter Toughness II
Drow Melee Attack II
Drow Melee Damage II
Fighter Strength I
Drow Dex I
Bard EOM II
Bard Lingering Song III
Fighter Haste Boost II
Figther Critical Accuracy I
Bard Charisma I
Bard Extra Song III

To Hit @14
BAB 11
Racial 2
Str 10
Weapon 5
Song 7
WF 1
Focusing Chant 1
Haste 1
TWF -2
PA -5
+36 (31 PA)

Damage @14
Weapon 5
Str 10
Song 6
PA 5
Racial 2
+28

Weapons:
+5 Holy Rapier/Shortsword w/ Bloodstone

DPS:
Rapier = 1d6 + 28 +2d6(Holy) = 31.5 + 7 (63 + 19 Critical) = 72.78
Shortsword = 1d6 + 23 +2d6(Holy) = 26.5 + 7 (53 + 19 Critical) = 43.48
Total = 116.26

[nbhs275]

havent we already gone over this, your making a bard who CANT: Heal, CC, Cast GREATER HEROISM, Dancing Sphere, cure mass, and who Spends 4 feats on TWF, which doesnt increase DPS a signifigant amount over a THF mock up. I could easily drop mental toughness and Crit/blunt to grab SOS and go all out dps. There is no way rapiers do more then SOS with PA running. Your dps wins out, but your build loses.


Just because your damage is a ten, and mines a 7 does not equat victory.

The fact that is your damage is a ten, your healing a zero, your buffing a five, your hitpoint(the same as what my build touts with a con item on), your SP a five, your skills a five, and your songs a ten.

The fact is my damage is a seven, my healing is a seven, my buffing is a ten, my spell points a 8, my skills a 9, and my sons a ten.

So your build is on average a FIVE(5), where mine is an EIGHT & HALF(8.5).

Your bard is a top heavy, ill suited fighter. You lose out on the best bonuses of being a bard, and dont gain the main boosts of being a fighter. And as far as Doing damage, its impossible to do damage when your dead, which is most likely going to happen alot to a ranger like this who cant cast heals without switching to a wand. Or throw out CC to prevent the damage.

Unbalanced characters suck. Your build is like the barbarian with 600 hp and 22 raged strength.

[EinarMal]

havent we already gone over this, your making a bard who CANT: Heal, CC, Cast GREATER HEROISM, Dancing Sphere, cure mass, and who Spends 4 feats on TWF, which doesnt increase DPS a signifigant amount over a THF mock up. I could easily drop mental toughness and Crit/blunt to grab SOS and go all out dps. There is no way rapiers do more then SOS with PA running. Your dps wins out, but your build loses.


Just because your damage is a ten, and mines a 7 does not equat victory.

The fact that is your damage is a ten, your healing a zero, your buffing a five, your hitpoint(the same as what my build touts with a con item on), your SP a five, your skills a five, and your songs a ten.

The fact is my damage is a seven, my healing is a seven, my buffing is a ten, my spell points a 8, my skills a 9, and my sons a ten.

So your build is on average a FIVE(5), where mine is an EIGHT & HALF(8.5).

Your bard is a top heavy, ill suited fighter. You lose out on the best bonuses of being a bard, and dont gain the main boosts of being a fighter. And as far as Doing damage, its impossible to do damage when your dead, which is most likely going to happen alot to a ranger like this who cant cast heals without switching to a wand. Or throw out CC to prevent the damage.

Unbalanced characters suck. Your build is like the barbarian with 600 hp and 22 raged strength.

Your build can't CC either, not on elite content and that is WHAT you fail to see.

[EinarMal]

A well built bard 14 will run circles around you in every aspect. Such as my battle bard.



And would you stop with the running circles garbage. Your build is a sub par caster and sub par damage dealer. The only thing going for it is a lot of spell points which your going to need because your spells will never land and you will kill so slowly your going to have to heal yourself up after every fight.

[EinarMal]

havent we already gone over this, your making a bard who CANT: Heal, CC, Cast GREATER HEROISM, Dancing Sphere, cure mass, and who Spends 4 feats on TWF, which doesnt increase DPS a signifigant amount over a THF mock up. I could easily drop mental toughness and Crit/blunt to grab SOS and go all out dps. There is no way rapiers do more then SOS with PA running. Your dps wins out, but your build loses.


Just because your damage is a ten, and mines a 7 does not equat victory.

The fact that is your damage is a ten, your healing a zero, your buffing a five, your hitpoint(the same as what my build touts with a con item on), your SP a five, your skills a five, and your songs a ten.

The fact is my damage is a seven, my healing is a seven, my buffing is a ten, my spell points a 8, my skills a 9, and my sons a ten.

So your build is on average a FIVE(5), where mine is an EIGHT & HALF(8.5).

Your bard is a top heavy, ill suited fighter. You lose out on the best bonuses of being a bard, and dont gain the main boosts of being a fighter. And as far as Doing damage, its impossible to do damage when your dead, which is most likely going to happen alot to a ranger like this who cant cast heals without switching to a wand. Or throw out CC to prevent the damage.

Unbalanced characters suck. Your build is like the barbarian with 600 hp and 22 raged strength.

Plus your assuming everyone even cares about healing which many people do not.

This builds songs are actually almost even with your build which was not a warchanter FYI....

Averaging things together is just stupid you are MUCH better off doing very well at one thing then spreading yourself and doing nothing well.

Preventing damage is easy its called fascinate/displacement and not being an idiot. Not to mention diplomacy and TWF is much easier to fight one target and not draw agro from others.

[nbhs275]

Not to mention your sp/hp math is way off...

Warchanting Tempest

Goals:
Basically to be the biggest baddest TWF Bard on the planet. With 4 levels of fighter hit points are closing in on 300 and damage is top notch. At level 15 this build will take weapon spec for an additional +2 damage per swing.

(Drow Male Neutral Warchanter Bard 10/Fighter 4)

Stats:
Str 16 (30 =16 +3 Levels +1 Enh. +2 Tome +6 Item +2 Rage)
Dex 16 (24 =16 +1 Tome +1 Enh. +6 Item)
Con 12 (22 =12 +2 Tome +6 Item +2 Rage)
Int 10 10
Wis 8 8
Cha 16 (24 =16 +1 Tome +1 Enh. +6 Item)

Progression:
1-Bard
2-Fighter
3 thru 5-Bard
6-Fighter
7 thru 11-Bard
12-Figther
13-Bard
14-Fighter

Hit Points @14:
100(Levels) +20(Heroic) +10(Draconic) +30(GFL) +84(Con) +16 (Toughness) + 15(Fighter Toughness II) =275

SP:
275(10 Bard) +114(Cha) +100(Magi) +40(EOM II) = 529

Feats:
Extend
(FB) TWF
WF Piercing
(FB)PA
Toughness
ITWF
IC Piercing
(FB)GTWF

Enhancements:
Inspired Attack II
Inspired Damage II
Inspired Bravery II
Warchanter
Fighter Toughness II
Drow Melee Attack II
Drow Melee Damage II
Fighter Strength I
Drow Dex I
Bard EOM II
Bard Lingering Song III
Fighter Haste Boost II
Figther Critical Accuracy I
Bard Charisma I
Bard Extra Song III

To Hit @14
BAB 11
Racial 2
Str 10
Weapon 5
Song 7
WF 1
Focusing Chant 1
Haste 1
TWF -2
PA -5
+36 (31 PA)

Damage @14
Weapon 5
Str 10
Song 6
PA 5
Racial 2
+28

Weapons:
+5 Holy Rapier/Shortsword w/ Bloodstone

DPS:
Rapier = 1d6 + 28 +2d6(Holy) = 31.5 + 7 (63 + 19 Critical) = 72.78
Shortsword = 1d6 + 23 +2d6(Holy) = 26.5 + 7 (53 + 19 Critical) = 43.48
Total = 116.26

Oh, and BTW, the hitpoint math is before items. So remember to not count in that Greater false life and +6 con item. Where you fitting those? I mean, there is only so many places to put your +6 str, +6 cha, +6 con, +6 Dex, GFL, Heavy Fort. Especially when your trinket will either be a khardins eye or the head. HMMM... thats 7 of 12 slots used already, hope your not planning on using a UMD item, or the DQ Torc, because thats two more spots.

[nbhs275]

CC not going to land? just how good do you think everythings will saves are? Fear and Hold Monster can take care of about 90% of all melee mobs in game with one casting. And hell, i dont mind them hitting me a little, filling my spell points back up. More healing and CC for the party.

And how can you say that people dont care about healing? Try soloing without healing. Enjoy your XP debt.

[EinarMal]

Oh, and BTW, the hitpoint math is before items. So remember to not count in that Greater false life and +6 con item. Where you fitting those? I mean, there is only so many places to put your +6 str, +6 cha, +6 con, +6 Dex, GFL, Heavy Fort. Especially when your trinket will either be a khardins eye or the head. HMMM... thats 7 of 12 slots used already, hope your not planning on using a UMD item, or the DQ Torc, because thats two more spots.

Dex is entirely optional....personally UMD is mainly just for equiping items which requires no boost (you can switch them out if you really want to). The trinket is a bloodstone (it's all about the DPS baby).

[EinarMal]

CC not going to land? just how good do you think everythings will saves are? Fear and Hold Monster can take care of about 90% of all melee mobs in game with one casting. And hell, i dont mind them hitting me a little, filling my spell points back up. More healing and CC for the party.

And how can you say that people dont care about healing? Try soloing without healing. Enjoy your XP debt.

It's called not dieing and using wands after the fight, or drink a pot. Why in the world would you want to waste spell points on healing? You can buy an infinite supply of wands/pots.

[nbhs275]

Ok, so you cant UMD. Lets see you DPS against anything wearing blur and/or displace. What about enervation and negative levels? Energy resists from wands? Oh, and diplomacy? HAHA. FIRST, there has to be someone else for it to aggro on, which if your alone means it doesnt work. SECOND, it takes longer to use then it lasts. THIRD, its not going to hit anything worth diplomacying during a fight unless you use an item for it.

[EinarMal]

CC not going to land? just how good do you think everythings will saves are? Fear and Hold Monster can take care of about 90% of all melee mobs in game with one casting. And hell, i dont mind them hitting me a little, filling my spell points back up. More healing and CC for the party.

And how can you say that people dont care about healing? Try soloing without healing. Enjoy your XP debt.

Keep saying that to yourself as the cap increases if it makes you feel better. You did not have SF Enchantment or Heighten. Good luck landing those spells in the future. Your looking at what a DC in the low to mid 20's? That is not going to cut it....your just lucky current high end content is filled with low will save mobs.

[nbhs275]

Because if you play your hand right on a fighting caster, you can have near-infanite SP. Add in the fact heals are faster to top me off, and that i don't have to switch to a wand, and im moving through the quest faster. Nevermind the fact that its always nice to not let your party go down. I doubt your gunna pull out a wand mid fight to keep the other guy from going from incapped to dead.

Oh, and another thing. You cant res without burning alot of scrolls. That sucks.

[EinarMal]

Because if you play your hand right on a fighting caster, you can have near-infanite SP. Add in the fact heals are faster to top me off, and that i don't have to switch to a wand, and im moving through the quest faster. Nevermind the fact that its always nice to not let your party go down. I doubt your gunna pull out a wand mid fight to keep the other guy from going from incapped to dead.

Oh, and another thing. You cant res without burning alot of scrolls. That sucks.

With the shrine change that is a much smaller issue.... It is not that often that you cannot get to a shrine to rez someone.

Look not everyone cares about CC casting and healing. I would gladly trade those for DPS and still buff well. The 10/4 warchanter has strong songs, good buffs, and excellent DPS. Also, it is a FACT that it is very survivable with close to 300 hitpoints, blur/displacement. Just because it does not fit with what YOU want to do does not make it "inferior" or "run circles" around it.

[nbhs275]

Keep saying that to yourself as the cap increases if it makes you feel better. You did not have SF Enchantment or Heighten. Good luck landing those spells in the future. Your looking at what a DC in the low to mid 20's? That is not going to cut it....your just lucky current high end content is filled with low will save mobs.

Thats ok, next level bump you gain 2 damage and i gain 6th level spells. Which is otto's IRRISISTABLE Dance, and Charm Monster, Mass. Both cater to low DC casters. The first has no save, which the second, just means you have taken 25-50% to your side.

[nbhs275]

Yes, but thats also your opinion.

[EinarMal]

Thats ok, next level bump you gain 2 damage and i gain 6th level spells. Which is otto's IRRISISTABLE Dance, and Charm Monster, Mass. Both cater to low DC casters. The first has no save, which the second, just means you have taken 25-50% to your side.

Look thats fine and if we didn't have a cap then I would say fine it just takes me a couple more levels to get there, for Otto's anyway. Again some people do not want to play a Bard as a CC caster, but would rather focus on fighting/buffing.

[EinarMal]

Yes, but thats also your opinion.

That is like saying 1=1, everything here are simply people's opinions! I can show you that the 10/4 does more damage, and it is clear that you have more spell points and are better at more things. What is a matter of opinion is whether it is better to be very good at a few things or pretty good at many.