Raid Loot System That Works

[Capstern]

I didnt mean to post this at the end of my thread was trying to start this thread so sorry for the repost but would like any more feed back if you have any and maybe just maybe we can get some Dev attention:

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I appreciate the feedback from everyone and I am not saying its perfect and would require expert tweaking but I think it would work....cost for purchasing a raid item would have to be figured out by devs for time vs value etc thats not my place but I am just offering a basic concept that I think the majority of you would like in concept.

I spent many years doing game development work and it was me trying to find something that didn't require major code work to implement and something that everyone could feel happy about.

So to sum up - integrating all I have read

System like that have now on normal you get a straight 1/6 shot at instant item..its random and fun and like what we know now and when you luck out you feel really good

On hard its 1/5 and on elite its 1/4

If you dont get a raid item you get a token that BINDS
1-2 token on normal
2-4 on hard
3-6 on elite

Once you have enough tokens you can go to a vendor/contact near the raid and purchase a raid item of your choice for a set number of tokens. (Dev can do math for this for acceptable)

My thoughts are
VON/Queen (non flagging missions) should be lower base cost than Titan/Reaver
Von/Queen - token cost in the 15-20 range or so
Titan/Reaver - 20-30


Its just that simple and I think everyone would be much happier.

Like I said you get the insta-gratification option and then the working towards something so that you dont feel the oh man I spent 1-2 hours and got a help of wis +2 listen +7 argh!

[Fallout]

I like systems such as this, less frustration. It can work because:

1) There no fear that people won't do raids anymore, simply because they have many characters that would benifiet from multiple items.

2) Since not competing for loot, having a large raid party would not harm the chances of other people.

3) Alot of people don't do raids because the amount of time spent trying to get the item just frustrates them. Most raid items are literally **** to begin with. The bloodstone itself is superior than most raid items. Having a goal solves that. There's still 'grinding' for tokens, but at least you know you'll get it.

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In addition I would propose another option for pre-raid quests. Most people would never do pre-raid quests again if it was not require for raids. Can't blame them. So Turbine put stuff like rez ring. To encourage people to do pre-raid quests, here's this:

For people who do NOT want to do pre-raid quests, timer resets after 3 days as usual. But if you do the pre-raid quest (Vons, Ghola whatever), you can bypass the 3 days and do the raid again right after.

May have to tweak preqs per raid, since vons are obvously shorter then reaver preqs. One raid I almost never do is DQ. Getting there takes a long time, and the raid items aren't that great for certain classes.

[Hence]

I really like the idea of increasing the chance of getting an item based on level of difficulty you enter on. Right now, everyone does the Raids on normal, just because it is easier and there is no reward for trying it any harder.

There should always be more of a reward for doing something on a higher difficulty... its called risk vs reward! And just having random items does not justify the risk.

All of my characters backpacks are full of stuff I use... most of the quests I go on, I leave all the loot in the chest, or assign it to the person I know that takes everything. Unless it is something special, it is as good as destroyed.

Please up the drop rate on higher difficulties, so I can finally get the DQ, Reaver and Velah on elite!!

[Furgulder]

There should always be more of a reward for doing something on a higher difficulty... its called risk vs reward!

while it is not a MAJOR thing, you get:

1. More xp (which doesnt matter to capped toons)
2. More faction (which doesnt matter after doing once)
3. Better chance at loot during quest (ie Von 5)

As I said, not a major thing, but you do in fact get something for doing raids on higher difficulties.

[Capstern]

I hope the devs take a look at this with the results that are coming in from Risia that look sorta of scary.

[hannika]

i really hope the devs look at this too, because this keeps the goal they seem to be trying to accomplish in filling out parties, inspireing grouping, makeing things more fun for the average player AND it would keep the hords of ppl that are ONLY around to raid still on the game.

[Shyver]

3. Better chance at loot during quest (ie Von 5)



I see what your driving at here. However Von5 has no bearing on Von 6 and would continue to be run on normal with the dragon itself being the one people bump to Elite for the better raid loot percentage.

[jaitee]

the problem with tokens is that of the titan docent is 30 tokens running it lets say elite 3-6 tokens per run

it would be average 4 tokens per run so 30/4 = 8 runs maybe 7 if you get 6 tokens

so 7 runs x the 3 day timer = you will have to run the raid 21 days

so to get 3 items, it would take almost 2-3 months for 1 items worth

assuming people wont be able to run the raid every 3 days, itll be 4-5 months maybe before getting even 1-2 items + the chance at 16% of getting a item

seems to be more of a grinding factor to me though

[Capstern]

i really hope the devs look at this too, because this keeps the goal they seem to be trying to accomplish in filling out parties, inspireing grouping, makeing things more fun for the average player AND it would keep the hords of ppl that are ONLY around to raid still on the game.

I would like them to just sit and think about it a little.
I tried to think about balance and reward vs effort and what wont make me leave. I have another post here about how like the scale system keeps me doing "content" and I can convince myself I amd working towards someting seeing the same mobs over and over :)

The same with the raids - if I dont have something definite to work towards (like the crappy 2 for sure items) or tokens likely the feeling of "content" woudl fade and massiver boredom woudl set in and like I said in other post - probably would go load my old baldurs gate games and play those for a while :)

[Stanley_Nicholas]

This or a similar system is something I could really get behind. It is superior to the current system, and far superior to the upcoming system. It's fair for everybody, regardless of party size or frequency of raiding.

[Capstern]

This or a similar system is something I could really get behind. It is superior to the current system, and far superior to the upcoming system. It's fair for everybody, regardless of party size or frequency of raiding.

Well and I think I did keep an eye for balance in a way that keeps raid loot somewhat rare like it should be but doesnt just wear everyone out getting nothing all the time or just not often enough to make them happy and stay

[Talson]

the problem with tokens is that of the titan docent is 30 tokens running it lets say elite 3-6 tokens per run

it would be average 4 tokens per run so 30/4 = 8 runs maybe 7 if you get 6 tokens

so 7 runs x the 3 day timer = you will have to run the raid 21 times

so to get 3 items, it would take almost 2-3 months for 1 items worth

assuming people wont be able to run the raid every 3 days, itll be 4-5 months maybe before getting even 1-2 items + the chance at 16% of getting a item

seems to be more of a grinding factor to me though

That would be worth it to me... Considering that you could run the Dragon 100's of times without have SOS show up in the chest as an item for you to loot. Of course I was considering tokens be available if you choose to not take the raid loot. So random loot would still be dropping... If you happend to take a raid item from that quest into your inventory then tokens should be reset.

[Cowdenicus]

All they really needed to do, was have about 8 items spawn in the warded chest and 2 items to break seals with.

Then just roll for the 2 seals.

[Shyver]

All they really needed to do, was have about 8 items spawn in the warded chest and 2 items to break seals with.

Then just roll for the 2 seals.

Or a variation of this that spawns an amount of seals based on the total number of people in the party at completion.

1-4 = 1 seal
5-8 = 2 seals
9-12=3 seals

With say 5 items in the warded chest. Roll on the seals. Top 3 get them.

This would slow down the super small groups a bit. Stay the same for what I (opinion) feel is the average raid group size these days. And awards those that take the time to fill out a group with more.

Just another idea. Granted this flys in the face of other things I've written, but I've decided to take a more neutral stance on things. And suggest other ideas as opposed to just saying that the new system is bad.

[Prinstoni]

I think the Devs should do whatever they want with the new content, but They need to Stop Changing existing Content.

Hey if they want to implement a new raid loot drop system on the new raid comming out...Fine!... It will not make anyone upset because it doesn't exist yet. Heck we would all be happy to play it. We all know the new loot drop system is a nerf. No ifs, ands, buts, about it, it is a nerf.

I must beg the devs for the 1,000nth time....

PLEASE STOP CHANGING EXISTING CONTENT! IT ****ES US OFF!

Want examples?
Giant Hold
Oh POP is too easy and too many people are getting good loot. **** we better lower the loot table. Now lets make it so they can't preset aoe spels before the prison doors close. Well that didn't help. How about we make the end guy teleport.

...result Lost players...

Enhancement System
How about we screw with your character build, so you have to pay to fix it or reroll.

...result lost a lot of players...

Now RAIDS
OMG that is the only thing we have left to do in the end game. PLEASE DON"T SCREW WITH OUR LOOT TABLE!!!

...may lose players... (especially if you don't listen to us anyway)

This is not a rant... I don't do that anymore. I don't care.

It is what it is, and the Devs never come to the forums to see what we are upset about anyway. They don't care what we think.

Oh btw, I like the idea of the OP much better than the proposed sytem, but I would just prefer they stop changing existing content.

[Uska]

As I have said elsewhere hate a token system the most only rewards powergamers and shortman. Maybe they need to tweak the chests a bit in the new system dont know for sure we dont have a large enough sample yet to be sure.

[Talson]

As I have said elsewhere hate a token system the most only rewards powergamers and shortman. Maybe they need to tweak the chests a bit in the new system dont know for sure we dont have a large enough sample yet to be sure.

I hear what you're saying but I'm looking at the raids and comparing them to doing loot runs at what ever GH quest you want... In all cases the GH loot runs looks like a more productive use of time if you're trying to maximize the number of items you're looting. Tokens just lessen the impact of going on a raid and not seeing what you were hoping for over and over....

Eventually you'll be able to get the item based on sheer number of attempts this would have been good in either raid loot format although I like it more with the changes being proposed since there wil be times when the group raided and no raid loot dropped...

As it is after the change I'll raid occasionally with the guild but the majority of the time I'll be doing loot or favor runs.

-Tal

[riexau]

Good idea in theory, with 1 small flaw. Since you can now 'assign' loot to people, if everyone got 6 tokens, you could assign tokens to 1 person and that guy could get 3-4 pieces of raid loot per raid.

I would, myself, use the new 1 in 6 system, give 1 token to everyone and have things cost 10 tokens to buy. And you could not buy tomes. Plain and simple - you can get the gear you need, but if you want those +3 tomes, keep running the raid.

[Talson]

Good idea in theory, with 1 small flaw. Since you can now 'assign' loot to people, if everyone got 6 tokens, you could assign tokens to 1 person and that guy could get 3-4 pieces of raid loot per raid.

I would, myself, use the new 1 in 6 system, give 1 token to everyone and have things cost 10 tokens to buy. And you could not buy tomes. Plain and simple - you can get the gear you need, but if you want those +3 tomes, keep running the raid.

Yeah I was thinking on them as being a counter in the quest tab... It would track the number of times you were present when the quest completed and you had not looted a raid item. There's nothing to trade, if you take raid loot it resets, if you weren't in the quest when it completed the counter wouldn't increament, etc....

-Tal

[Shyver]

Yeah I was thinking on them as being a counter in the quest tab... It would track the number of times you were present when the quest completed and you had not looted a raid item. There's nothing to trade, if you take raid loot it resets, if you weren't in the quest when it completed the counter wouldn't increament, etc....

-Tal

Good idea. The only problem with this is they can't even get the # of times repeated entry in the quest log to log correctly. Using a similiar counter to count your "tokens" could create problems, though I do like the idea.

[Cheg]

the problem with tokens is that of the titan docent is 30 tokens running it lets say elite 3-6 tokens per run

it would be average 4 tokens per run so 30/4 = 8 runs maybe 7 if you get 6 tokens

so 7 runs x the 3 day timer = you will have to run the raid 21 times

so to get 3 items, it would take almost 2-3 months for 1 items worth

assuming people wont be able to run the raid every 3 days, itll be 4-5 months maybe before getting even 1-2 items + the chance at 16% of getting a item

seems to be more of a grinding factor to me though

Errrrr.

If the docent was 30 tokens, and you get 4 tokens per raid, that is only 7 raids you need to do, not 21. 21 is the minimum days of wait.

[Cheg]

lol cheg, you misunderstood

docent is 30..

so 4 tokens per raid

8 raids = 32 tokens

8 raids x 3(which is the 3 day wait after running it once) which would be 24 days

so thats what i ment, it shoulda of ment days instead of times



Nah, you just hit reply while i was editing :P

Ninja-Ninja.

[jaitee]

Errrrr.

If the docent was 30 tokens, and you get 4 tokens per raid, that is only 7 raids you need to do, not 21.

lol cheg, your right

docent is 30..

so 4 tokens per raid

8 raids = 32 tokens

8 raids x 3(which is the 3 day wait after running it once) which would be 24 days

so thats what i ment, it shoulda of ment days instead of times

[Cheg]

either way, i mean 4 months for a few items is the flaw in the token system, it would take months to get one item

But atleast you are guaranteed one, even if its slow. 3 Tokens minimum, guaranteed on elite.

Currently with the 1/6 chance, even running 200 12 man Reavers, it is possible to get nothing every single time.

Ninja-Ninja.

[jaitee]

either way, i mean 4 months for a few items is the flaw in the token system, it would take months to get one item

[Talson]

either way, i mean 4 months for a few items is the flaw in the token system, it would take months to get one item

Well the thing is it's taking longer but you're picking the item... And if it happens to drop in the mean time you loot it and the counter is reset for the next item on your list...

I'd not be surprised to hear someone wanted SOS and it took over 4 months to get because they were unlucky.

-Tal

[Shyver]

Well the thing is it's taking longer but you're picking the item... And if it happens to drop in the mean time you loot it and the counter is reset for the next item on your list...

I'd not be surprised to hear someone wanted SOS and it took over 4 months to get because they were unlucky.

-Tal

I've been looking for the dragon boots since January of this year so 8 months and I've only seen them drop once averaging 2 dragon raids a week. Too bad I was playing my caster who doesn't need them. :mad:

[Cheg]

Oh, i missed the part in here when tokens would let you choose your raid loot, and not have a couple randomly generated to choose between. I like it.

[Capstern]

Good idea in theory, with 1 small flaw. Since you can now 'assign' loot to people, if everyone got 6 tokens, you could assign tokens to 1 person and that guy could get 3-4 pieces of raid loot per raid.

I would, myself, use the new 1 in 6 system, give 1 token to everyone and have things cost 10 tokens to buy. And you could not buy tomes. Plain and simple - you can get the gear you need, but if you want those +3 tomes, keep running the raid.


Well the easiest thing would be for the token yo just appear in your inventory or be non reassignable and no tomes should never be purchaseable

[Capstern]

Well the thing is it's taking longer but you're picking the item... And if it happens to drop in the mean time you loot it and the counter is reset for the next item on your list...

I'd not be surprised to hear someone wanted SOS and it took over 4 months to get because they were unlucky.

-Tal

Ding ding ding we have a winner


took me at least 70-80 runs to get the SoS and that was arranging raids that had all people who had it our couldnt use it :)