Subdual damage

[Silver_Squirrel]

Is there away to do only subdual damage as a 3rd lvl fighter. Trying the Eye of Kyhbar quest where you have to sneak, and can't seem to find a way to get the prophets off me once they see me. Any help would be great. Thanks

[~Jules921]

If sneaking doesn't work, sometimes someone can mesmerize them - or put them to sleep. Both methods have worked for me.

Jules

[Bilger]

Yep once spotted either run for the end or have a caster with you who can take care of the aggro with non damaging spells!

[tihocan]

Stealthy reposs is a tough quest at its level if you try to solo it (unless you're an experienced sneaker).
One thing fighters can do is trip their target. But that's about it.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Stealthy reposs is a tough quest at its level if you try to solo it (unless you're an experienced sneaker).
One thing fighters can do is trip their target. But that's about it.The problem is that with Trip, you are still striking. And in the case of CR:0.25 Kobolds, that means killing. Even if you don't kill it, it will be on it's feet and homing in on you halfway across the dungeon in <10 seconds (the maximum duration of Trip). Basically, Fighter types have no options in this mission except to zerg to the end for completion.

Group up. Bring a sneaky Rogue or a Caster with Hypnotism or Sleep.

[tihocan]

The problem is that with Trip, you are still striking. And in the case of CR:0.25 Kobolds, that means killing. Even if you don't kill it, it will be on it's feet and homing in on you halfway across the dungeon in <10 seconds (the maximum duration of Trip). Basically, Fighter types have no options in this mission except to zerg to the end for completion.
If you use precision and a low damage weapon, you should be able to land one strike without killling ;)
And what's with the max 10s duration of trip? At high level I can trip for much longer. Although I guess at low level you don't have room for improved trip/vertigo weapons, so monsters are more likely to save.

[Borror0]

If you use precision and a low damage weapon, you should be able to land one strike without killling ;)

What would fighter do with Precision?:confused:

[FluffyDucky]

Is there away to do only subdual damage as a 3rd lvl fighter. Trying the Eye of Kyhbar quest where you have to sneak, and can't seem to find a way to get the prophets off me once they see me. Any help would be great. Thanks

Not all the kobolds ar prophets, learn to recognize what you can kill and what you can't. You also have to kill 6 prophets to fail the quest so it's ok if a few get caught in the crossfire. Finally once you have the eye the quest is complete and you can go berzerk and kill everything. (Useful to clear out an area so you can recall or get a chest you skipped.)

[Silver_Squirrel]

Thanks for all the info. I pretty much guessed what you all said. It just sucks when 1 of them prophets sees you he doesn't give up! arrrrggggghhh. BTW, If I have "use magic device" can I use scrolls?

[MeNorel]

Yes as long and your UMD equals are is greater than the difficulty of the item.

[Mad_Bombardier]

BTW, If I have "use magic device" can I use scrolls?For scrolls, 1d20 + UMD >= scroll difficulty.

[sigtrent]

I think there are 3 good ways to tackle that quest

#1. Sneak it: sometimes you can manage it without ever getting agro
#2. Zerg it: Buff for defnese and run like the ****ens pulling levers before they catch up and hit you. You need to know the quest pretty well for this and have decent defenses ready.
#3. CC Kind of like zerging but you periodicaly drop area CC spells like sleep, hypno, fascinate, web etc...

You can mix these, some parts are easy to sneak, some are easy to zerg. Hard can be the most difficlt level to do it at due to hold person. On elite you can at least chug lightning potions for the bolts.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

But, to answer your question, there is no subdual or nonlethal damage in DDO.

[Ekental]

What would fighter do with Precision?:confused:

Not to hijack the thread:
Precision is useful if you've decided that your venue for violence is something like a vorpal. In which case hitting precision, spamming cleave/great cleave is a good way to contribute your dmg.

This is more often used by ... paladins, bards, rangers, etc. All the support fighters who might not have a high enough hit or str to do significant damage.

[Uska]

might be interesting and dnd like but sadly its not here.

[Borror0]

Not to hijack the thread:
Precision is useful if you've decided that your venue for violence is something like a vorpal. In which case hitting precision, spamming cleave/great cleave is a good way to contribute your dmg.

This is more often used by ... paladins, bards, rangers, etc. All the support fighters who might not have a high enough hit or str to do significant damage.

Paladins? Huh? Paladins can acheive good DPS.

And the point was about fighters, not rangers, bards and rogues.;)

[Aranticus]

Paladins? Huh? Paladins can acheive good DPS.

And the point was about fighters, not rangers, bards and rogues.;)

my FIGHTER has precision. it helps me to:

1) save enhancements for crit confirm so when i want to vorp i hit precision for a higher confirm plus

2) reduce agro. if i want to shift the agro, ie when i stat dmg or vorp, i use precision to reduce the damage done

3) land my strikes on high ac mobs. some mobs have high ac and deal tons of damage ie raksasha lords. i want to trip it on the first attack and my vertigo 10 weapon is only a +1. using precision, my attack will miss less often.

there are lots of way to play a fighter. DPS is not the only way

[Ekental]

Paladins? Huh? Paladins can acheive good DPS.

And the point was about fighters, not rangers, bards and rogues.;)

Sure they can.. just not as good as fighters and barbs, everything is relative.

Fighters take it when they depend on vorpals for dmg... no comment on effectiveness.

[Borror0]

my FIGHTER has precision. it helps me to:

1) save enhancements for crit confirm so when i want to vorp i hit precision for a higher confirm plus

Power Critical is much better for that, and you know it.


2) reduce agro. if i want to shift the agro, ie when i stat dmg or vorp, i use precision to reduce the damage done

Why would a fighter want to reduce his aggro? I mean, he's supposed to be able to take some hate.


3) land my strikes on high ac mobs. some mobs have high ac and deal tons of damage ie raksasha lords. i want to trip it on the first attack and my vertigo 10 weapon is only a +1. using precision, my attack will miss less often.

Ok, that one I give it to you. But I'm not sure it's needed w/0 the -5 penalty from CE (I always have CE on so...)


there are lots of way to play a fighter. DPS is not the only way

I have a Intimitank, I know that DPS isn't the only way to build a fighter. What I'm saying that a fighter is supposed to be able to take damage, I don't care what your saves and AC are, the point is you're supposed to have HP and be able to hit things. The point is DPS is the way we kill, or with insta-kill. We are not yet to a point where we should all walk around with vorpals to be the most efficient, so Precision is pretty near of a waste feat for a fighter, since he's supposed to be able to hit mobs fairly often.


Sure they can.. just not as good as fighters and barbs, everything is relative.

You'd be surprised by the DPS of a khopesh, the damage of a paladin isn't so far behind to necessit Precision yet.


Fighters take it when they depend on vorpals for dmg... no comment on effectiveness.

Two words: Power Critical.

[Aranticus]

Power Critical is much better for that, and you know it.

Why would a fighter want to reduce his aggro? I mean, he's supposed to be able to take some hate.

Ok, that one I give it to you. But I'm not sure it's needed w/0 the -5 penalty from CE (I always have CE on so...)

I have a Intimitank, I know that DPS isn't the only way to build a fighter. What I'm saying that a fighter is supposed to be able to take damage, I don't care what your saves and AC are, the point is you're supposed to have HP and be able to hit things. The point is DPS is the way we kill, or with insta-kill. We are not yet to a point where we should all walk around with vorpals to be the most efficient, so Precision is pretty near of a waste feat for a fighter, since he's supposed to be able to hit mobs fairly often.

You'd be surprised by the DPS of a khopesh, the damage of a paladin isn't so far behind to necessit Precision yet.

Two words: Power Critical.

if i remember correct, power critical is a feat. feats are limited and swapping them require pp and a shard and they dun always swap correctly.

why do i want to reduce agro? simple, its easier on the cleric if he only have 1 guy to heal. if a barb is in the group, let the barb take the damage. 1 heal will top it up nicely. if all the tanks in the group is taking damage, the clr would have to spam mass cure which cure less that a heal would (my clr's heal hit for 266 and have seen a crit for 700+)

precision and CE are both stances, you can only have 1 stance up. power critical does nothing to help with my ranged weapon attacks but precision does.

yes dps is the way most "regular" tanks should work. you have an intimtank, mines a strategist. and i use precision alot so that i can (a) trip or (b) stun with my first strike. i also use khopeshes, i'd like to see how a regular tank can out damage me given the perfect senario (and this happens alot for me) where i stun a mob and go crit crazy with my burst khopeshes (i use a bloodstone too). w/o precision i'd wouldnt hit the stun as often (btw i'm using tenderiser now, i have obscene to hit when i wield it with precision up)

the problem with power critical isnt confirming the crit but rather, it does nothing to aid the attack rolls of certain classes. khopeshes is good for dps, but if i'm an elven pally, the longsword rules. for being an elf, there are enhancements for longswords, as a pally, there is a follower of sovereign host enhancement which again boost the rolls of the pally so he/she can hit more often. pallys get it bad with attack rolls as they have to spread their stats out, unlike most fighters which will start with 18 strength and have class enhancements to boost it by 3 more. fighters also have specialisation which pally dun get. so you are talking about a difference of +4 between the two.

[Ekental]

You'd be surprised by the DPS of a khopesh, the damage of a paladin isn't so far behind to necessit Precision yet.


A paladin.. as stated already, does dmg fine, but its still not going to be as much as a fighter. I don't think there's been any refutation of that.

Khopeshes are the highest 1-h DPS weapons in the game, you can't be surprised by DPS, since anyone can work through it with a calculator and some spare time.

Does a paladin NEED precision? No, can you use it with the right build and be effective? Yes.
What is the point where a paladin's Dmg falls behind enough to necessitate precision?
I'm singling out Paladins and other support melee because they are more likely to take precision than the general fighter.

It's all build dependent, arguing that precision is "useless" for a fighter is narrow-minded.

[Borror0]

if i remember correct, power critical is a feat. feats are limited and swapping them require pp and a shard and they dun always swap correctly.

Ok, you can't afford it? You got Bloodstone and Burst Khopeshes... weak arguement.


why do i want to reduce agro? simple, its easier on the cleric if he only have 1 guy to heal. if a barb is in the group, let the barb take the damage. 1 heal will top it up nicely. if all the tanks in the group is taking damage, the clr would have to spam mass cure which cure less that a heal would (my clr's heal hit for 266 and have seen a crit for 700+)

Wait, telling me you out-DPS a barbarian with your Strategist? Get a better barbarian.


precision and CE are both stances, you can only have 1 stance up. power critical does nothing to help with my ranged weapon attacks but precision does.

Ok, so you land more ranged attack... but do less damage with them... talk about improvement.


yes dps is the way most "regular" tanks should work. you have an intimtank, mines a strategist. and i use precision alot so that i can (a) trip or (b) stun with my first strike. i also use khopeshes, i'd like to see how a regular tank can out damage me given the perfect senario (and this happens alot for me) where i stun a mob and go crit crazy with my burst khopeshes (i use a bloodstone too). w/o precision i'd wouldnt hit the stun as often (btw i'm using tenderiser now, i have obscene to hit when i wield it with precision up)

If you have insane to-hit, why would you need Precision at all?

Now, you say that it helps you landing Trips ans Stuns, ok, I can't say you're lying. I can't say it's a bad idea. But discussing the usefulness of Precision only by what it does for you is narrow-minded. When I consider a feat, I consider alll options. The question is: would there be better for you than Precision at the moment? I think the answer is yes.


the problem with power critical isnt confirming the crit but rather, it does nothing to aid the attack rolls of certain classes. khopeshes is good for dps, but if i'm an elven pally, the longsword rules. for being an elf, there are enhancements for longswords, as a pally, there is a follower of sovereign host enhancement which again boost the rolls of the pally so he/she can hit more often. pallys get it bad with attack rolls as they have to spread their stats out, unlike most fighters which will start with 18 strength and have class enhancements to boost it by 3 more. fighters also have specialisation which pally dun get. so you are talking about a difference of +4 between the two.

+4? Euh, so fighters get +1 GWF and say +3 from their Str enhacement. So we got +4. Now, elven paladin get +3 longsword enhancements and +3 DF, wait, who has trouble hitting?


It's all build dependent, arguing that precision is "useless" for a fighter is narrow-minded.

I agree that it's gear dependant, but a character focusing on Str does not need Precision, IMO.

[Aranticus]

Ok, you can't afford it? You got Bloodstone and Burst Khopeshes... weak arguement.

you prob have never played a strategist. combat expertise, imp trip, stunning blow and quick draw are the 4 feats any decent strategist will have. 2 more for weapon focus, 2 for specialisation, 1 for imp crit, 1 for iron will, 1 toughness and another for khopesh. thats 12 feats spent.....


Wait, telling me you out-DPS a barbarian with your Strategist? Get a better barbarian.

i use only burst khopeshes. between landing crits and a bbn who have yet to rage gets me agro. a bbn using 2HF while is able to hit everything is unable to grab agro of everything for i've yet to see a glancing blow strike for more than 50.


Ok, so you land more ranged attack... but do less damage with them... talk about improvement.

my preferred choice of ranged weapon is a paralysing returning dart


If you have insane to-hit, why would you need Precision at all?

i did not always have superb weapon. raid loot do not drop from the sky as you wish. in my last few reaver runs i've seen ventilated bracers 5 times.


Now, you say that it helps you landing Trips ans Stuns, ok, I can't say you're lying. I can't say it's a bad idea. But discussing the usefulness of Precision only by what it does for you is narrow-minded. When I consider a feat, I consider alll options. The question is: would there be better for you than Precision at the moment? I think the answer is yes.

what you have done here is to prove your own narrow-mindedness. strange thing that you can say that DPS isnt the only way to build a fighter yet here you cant accept my discussion. you considered all options? i'd say no. i've yet to touch on the dex fighter build which has precision on to stat damage just about anything. is there a better feat? i'd agree with you there is but disagree its not power critical. circumstances change when the loot change. once we get better loot, certain feats and enhancements lose their usefulness


+4? Euh, so fighters get +1 GWF and say +3 from their Str enhacement. So we got +4. Now, elven paladin get +3 longsword enhancements and +3 DF, wait, who has trouble hitting?

i'm comparing between a fighter and a pally using khopeshes (as wat u mentioned abt khopesh being the dps 1H weapon). i pointed out that if you are building a pally, u should be using a longsword and not khopesh for dps purposes. i do not calculate DF into most calculations for 1 simple reason. its only 1 minute long, 2 if extended. its not always possible to keep up the buff. i run a pally too...

i see in your sig that you run tanks, but that doesnt make you the all mighty on all things melee. your views are seriously narrow-minded that you only think that damage output is the most important (note i said important not only way), all things else are secondary. dps? i have my wiz to dps..... :cool: