Who gets the most kills! Frost weapons Steal the kill! GRRRRRRRRRRRR.

[Zorth]

Fighters and Barbarians, Rangers and Rogues are always butting heads for the most kills, which is fine with me. Let's face it, we hate it when someone with a frost weapon steals our kill. Why are frost weapons able to get more kills than any other weapon out there? 9 times out of 10 someone with a frost weapon sneaks in at the moment my kill is near death and that person gets my kill!!! Which really ****es me off when its a rogue or wanna be sorceror acting like a tank. All they have to do is get near the kill it seems. You all know you hate it and bring out your own frost weapons instead of using the weapon you just had to catch up on the kills and steal others kills the same way. Even though you know the weapon you just had is a better weapon for the monster your fighting. A fighter with not that many kills gets his ego hurt. Makes me wonder why other weapons exist, why not just make em all frost. They sell for the most money because they steal the kills the best, STEAL THE KILLS THE BEST! Not do the most damage, but steal the kills! Who knows why? But they do!

[Tanka]

...Riiiiiiight...

[sieg33]

You must really hate it when someone casts FoD or destruction at the last second then.

[Zorth]

You know what I mean.

[Endrik]

I would recommend that you take a closer look at your combat log. Someone please correct me if I'm incorrect, but I'm relatively confident (from my own experience) that the "ice statue" effect will occur if the creature is damaged by a frost effect weapon just prior to it's death. Not solely on the killing blow.

Could be you've got your knickers in a wad over nothing. Also, does having a higher kill count actually get you anything? More xp? It sure doesn't change anything for any of my characters.

[Zorth]

you proved my point. They somehow steal my kills man. My 10th level fighter with an adamantine +3 longsword should get the kill 9 times out of 10 more than a rogue of the same level with a +1 frost weapon fighting the same thing. But it doesn't work that way.

[Tanka]

Maybe because your sword isn't doing as much as a 9th level rogue? I mean, 1d6 (rapier) + 5d6 (sneak attack) is much, much more damage than 1d8 (longsword).

[Zorth]

Rogue, ranger, sorceror. whatever. As soon as I break out my Frost weapon I get the kill more often. Why do we have other weapons in this game anyway?

[Ringlord]

Where exactly does it make any difference who gets the most kills? This is not a game where individual players get XP or Loot based on how many kills they get so exactly what is your issue over a stupid counter that only shows who got the last hit in? I use a frost weapon and I still have almost the lowest kill count in my group each time and I hit very well. A post like this ranting over perceived stolen kills is the main reason they should remove the stupid kill counter in the first place. I suppose you get upset if someone gets more breakables than you too right? Kill count is just as useless as who broke the most crates and barrels

[Avonwey]

There's no such thing as a 'kill steal' and you're just making yourself sound silly. The whole point of this game is about teamwork and playing as a group. My bard frequently finishes a quest with zero kills, but I know how valuable I am to my party. I don't need some made-up statistic to tell me that I'm a good player.

Take rogues for example: one of their most powerful weapons (sneak attack) is designed to "kill steal" as you put it. And a barbarian who waits until you have agro before attacking your target is being a smart player.

Anyway I think you should get over the need to look at kills as any sort of a metric... focus on being a good team player instead.

[cptcruch]

Yet another thread and person so set on the kill count! This is why there needs to be no kill count...............DnD isnt a game based on kill counts its based on accomplishing a task, quest, mission...........not my sword is bigger than yours mentality!

Unfortunately DDO is a game set on the kill count!

[Zorth]

Well there is a kill count and my point is frost weapons steal the kills. If you don't believe me, get a fighter and see if you care about kills then. I don't care about kills with my sorceror, but I do with my fighter because the game lets me care.

[Zorth]

There's no such thing as a 'kill steal' and you're just making yourself sound silly. The whole point of this game is about teamwork and playing as a group. My bard frequently finishes a quest with zero kills, but I know how valuable I am to my party. I don't need some made-up statistic to tell me that I'm a good player.

Take rogues for example: one of their most powerful weapons (sneak attack) is designed to "kill steal" as you put it. And a barbarian who waits until you have agro before attacking your target is being a smart player.

Anyway I think you should get over the need to look at kills as any sort of a metric... focus on being a good team player instead.

With frost weapons there is. I don't know why but they do.

[Shaamis]

I would recommend that you take a closer look at your combat log. Someone please correct me if I'm incorrect, but I'm relatively confident (from my own experience) that the "ice statue" effect will occur if the creature is damaged by a frost effect weapon just prior to it's death. Not solely on the killing blow.

Could be you've got your knickers in a wad over nothing. Also, does having a higher kill count actually get you anything? More xp? It sure doesn't change anything for any of my characters.

You are right, for some reason, cold effects override any other elemental effect, if it is used close to teh end of the mobs HP.

It does NOT mean that the cold weapon got the killing blow, and hence stole "your" kill.

DDO is about teamwork. The mage hastes you, puts stoneskin on you, and puts elemental resists on you, so he can relieve some of the healing burden on the cleric, and makes you (ftr) more effective. The rogue, gets sneak attack while the mob is concentrating on you. The bard sings songs to help YOU fight better. The sorceror provides the killing blow (if he is smart) so you can move on to the next enemy faster.

There is a reason why DDO doesn't brant bonus XP for individual kill counts, o rno one would work as a team.

It is your job as a ftr to:

1) keep aggro away from casters and other Squishys
2) do most of the damage on enemies
3) be as conscious as possible on your own HP, and how much healing you are needing during combat.
4) back off, and let others take aggro, when you are getting too much agro yourself.

That makes a good team fighter.

Sincerely,

[bandyman1]

If kill count is that important to ya ( and I have a FOUR melees, check my sig ), then you don't ever wanna quest with my rogue. I don't use frost weapons, but when your flailing away and I tumble in doing 1d6+5 + 2d6holy +1d6pg ( + an additional 1d6+5 + 3d6 burst on a crit. ) and then an additional +7d6 and 2 Str. dmg. for sneak att, mobs go "bye-bye" fast. Kill to me.
Doe's it mean I'm a better player? Nope. Doe's it mean I'm a smart player? Yep.:D

[llevenbaxx]

you proved my point. They somehow steal my kills man. My 10th level fighter with an adamantine +3 longsword should get the kill 9 times out of 10 more than a rogue of the same level with a +1 frost weapon fighting the same thing. But it doesn't work that way.

The rogue "stealing":rolleyes: your kills just means that you are lucky enough to be traveling with a competant player that actually knows how to play the class. Im also guessing that its not the frost damage killing the monster but the extra sneak attack damage. Too bad theres no seperate animation for that. Was the quest a success? Did everyone take part? If your number one source of fun is kill counts then its going to be rough going here on out for yah. gl.

[Hvymetal]

Oh my you are soooo gonna love Gianthold:)

[dmitri]

I have officially been hit with a Feeblemind trap after reading the OP's points. Anyone gotta Heal scroll I can use?

[Tanka]

I have officially been hit with a Feeblemind trap after reading the OP's points. Anyone gotta Heal scroll I can use?
I got one of them new Kargon's Tasty Ham's. Watch out for the stunning effect, though. I hear it's a real killer.

[Yaga_Nub]

I have officially been hit with a Feeblemind trap after reading the OP's points. Anyone gotta Heal scroll I can use?

It must have been an AOE Feeblemind because it hit me too!

Honestly, I can show by example that frost weapons do NOT steal the kills. But if a frost weapon has done the most damage to a critter then more than likely you will get the freeze animation.

I was teamed up with a barb last night using a frost great axe during a SC run and he was definitely not stealing any kills. My pally had 82 or 83 kills switching between a +3 longsword of PG and a +3 Flaming Longsword and most of the death animations were the PG or Fire ones. Now I'm not saying that I was actually causing most of the damage, I'm just using this as a example to show that frost weapons don't steal kills (I was probably doing the kill stealing :) but when was the last time you saw a pally double the kill count of a barb and quadruple the kill count of the fighter).

[Oran_Lathor]

OP is hilarious, made my morning.


Btw, trading +5 holy greataxe of pure good for a +1 frost dagger!

[Mhykke]

1. Frost Weapons do no more damage than any other elemental, all things being equal (read, not fighting a mob weak to frost damage.)

2. Get yourself a better weapon for your level.

3. I am now dumber for having read through this entire thread.

[WolfSpirit]

{snip}we hate it when someone with a frost weapon steals our kill. {snippage}
.
I seriously doubt that Every rogue, ranger, palidin, fighter, or barbarian is worried about the kills. Zorth, it is players like you that zerge ahead in a greed of kills for something that most people don't care about and often complain to the powers that be to get rid of.
And guess who it effects?
Me, and Mr. Cleric. And maybe Mr. Rogue that you are "Bumping heads" with.

Because one of us are raising your dead butt.
So you can get your kills, we are spending money.

3 times getting you to your feet again can cost 1000plat.
After that, "I'm all out of scrolls".

If your that angry and greedy about a game of teamwork, maybe its time for you to take a break.
Lower your stress levels, maybe go for a nice long walk every day...
Take it easy man, its just a game.

[Spell]

To the OP,

If you really feel that way, I would suggest you sell off all your weapons for 'frost' weapons.

You probably haven't really noticed other "kill effects" because they are less dramatic and noisy. The frost kill is by far the loudest and most noticeable of the kill effects.

A Pure Good/Holy kill silently evaporates.
An Axiomatic kill quietly disperses into faint glitter.
A Fire kill barely crackles as it turns into embers.
An Ice kill shatters loudly as it turns into broken and falling shards of ice.

[Jeddak]

I get the feeling some still seem to be unaware that the last hit gets the kill which makes the kill total meaningless. All it's good for is to distract fighters away from the group in their mad dash to get to the mobs first. Surely, it's some evil plan to catch the brainless. :)

[Richtenfaust]

Yeah...you're nuts, bud. My 3Pal/2Ftr/1Wiz WF usually trumps in kills by almost double using his +1 Acid PG Longsword with Precision active (that's right...1/2 damage...but only on the base). I notice the ice kills, but I also notice my count compared to the dual-ice-wielding Rogue's count. You've gone loopy if you think ice weapons have more of a shot at a deathblow than any other. Gotta admit, though, your post did give me a chuckle.

Now...run along...play with some feces or something.

Oh yeah, as for zerging...I don't do that. I stick with the group, let the Rogue run through the traps, and stay out of the Cleric's way by healing myself. I'm almost always the last one standing in a near-party-wipe anyway. Gotta love DR and all those beautiful immunities. Lots of money to spend on potions and wands helps, too.

[Shecky]

Um, "kill stealing" is about as non-DDO as you can get. That kind of junk belongs on other, more... appropriate games.

PS Shocking Burst weapons are resisted by practically NO monsters in this game - Flaming Burst, Icy Burst and Holy Burst, yes, but Shocking Burst, no. I am THOROUGHLY enjoying my pretty new +4 Shocking Burst battleaxe. :D

[Shrazkil]

With frost weapons there is. I don't know why but they do.

I believe you are mistaking the kill effect, with kill count, if an enemy dies encased in frost it does not mean the person with the frost weapon got the kill. It just means that frost damage was the last elemental damage to hit the mob seconds before its death.

I have never even heard of this before, nor has someone using frost weapons ever seemed to lower my kill counts, and i sure as heck never use frost weapons as they are resisted by too many things.

[katanaflame]

Where exactly does it make any difference who gets the most kills? This is not a game where individual players get XP or Loot based on how many kills they get so exactly what is your issue over a stupid counter that only shows who got the last hit in? I use a frost weapon and I still have almost the lowest kill count in my group each time and I hit very well. A post like this ranting over perceived stolen kills is the main reason they should remove the stupid kill counter in the first place. I suppose you get upset if someone gets more breakables than you too right? Kill count is just as useless as who broke the most crates and barrels



Not so if you go back to when the desart came out it dose clearly state that killing high cr monsters dose affect your loot table I belive it was in that state of the game address.

[Tanka]

Not so if you go back to when the desart came out it dose clearly state that killing high cr monsters dose affect your loot table I belive it was in that state of the game address.
Uh...

BS.

[FoxOne]

Before coming here challenging the mechanics of the game,get your facts straight.All i read from the OP so far is nonsense & self centered garbage.Call Dr.Phil or someone who cares.

I hope to play with you someday,i'll equip my +3 Icy Burst Greataxe of pure good just to make sure my ice steals all your kills.

[JelloMold]

I was running a lowB through the Harbor quest where you have to steal the smuggler's rubies (Smuggler's Warehouse I think). Just before you enter the big room there is a gate with a frost trap on the other side. A kobald runs at you when you open the gate and goes through the frost trap. I don't have a frost weapon, yet when I finish him off he turns into an ice statue.

My Conclusion: any damage done by frost will result in the frost death animation.

And since kill counts only track who was the last one to kill something, you are getting your panties in a bunch over nothing that really matters. Usually when I'm whacking away at something (along with others) and I see it is almost dead, I switch targets. Does that mean I'm a slacker if I didn't finish it off? Or does it mean that I'm hoping I'll roll a crit and it would be used on the next baddie rather than the one with 5 hp left?

[Impaqt]

To the OP,

If you really feel that way, I would suggest you sell off all your weapons for 'frost' weapons.

You probably haven't really noticed other "kill effects" because they are less dramatic and noisy. The frost kill is by far the loudest and most noticeable of the kill effects.

A Pure Good/Holy kill silently evaporates.
An Axiomatic kill quietly disperses into faint glitter.
A Fire kill barely crackles as it turns into embers.
An Ice kill shatters loudly as it turns into broken and falling shards of ice.

QFT.

Ice doesnt do more damage.. Its just more noticeable.

[Talcyndl]

I have officially been hit with a Feeblemind trap after reading the OP's points. Anyone gotta Heal scroll I can use?

LOL

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

My bard frequently finishes a quest with zero kills, but I know how valuable I am to my party. I don't need some made-up statistic to tell me that I'm a good player.
Thats right, hun!
You keep keeping on...
Don't let anyone tell you different..

/pats Avonwey on the head

jk:p

[narizue]

Can't speak. Need HEAL.

:D

To agree with pretty much everyone else, frost effects do not steal kills.

As to kill count. High killcount does not = productive. It means getting the killing blow most often. Thats it. Its been my experience when playing my cleric that player seeking highest kill count normally = mana sponge and usually earns a trip to the shrine via my backpack.

Just my 2cp

Oh and side note if you are on Tharashk I have a +3 Icy Burst Rapier I would happily sell you for about 100000 pp.

K

[Freeman]

To take it even farther, the frost doesn't even have to do damage. The mob just has to get hit with the weapon. I've seen ice flensors, ice mephits, and winter wolves, who are all immune to cold damage, die with the frozen effect. Usually it was because I either hit them while aiming at something else, or they would have died before I could switch to another weapon anyway. I'd see 0 cold damage, and then they would still freeze and shatter. I don't know if the other elements work that way, but like someone else said, it has nothing to do with who actually gets the killing shot.

Oh, and to the OP, it is my fault. My bard is stealing all of your kills. Even when I'm not in your party, I sneak into the instance and wait until the mob is almost dead to land the killing blow. All those deaths due to misadventure? That's really me also. I'm lurking in the shadows even now, waiting to strike :p

[Impaqt]

To take it even farther, the frost doesn't even have to do damage. The mob just has to get hit with the weapon. I've seen ice flensors, ice mephits, and winter wolves, who are all immune to cold damage, die with the frozen effect. Usually it was because I either hit them while aiming at something else, or they would have died before I could switch to another weapon anyway. I'd see 0 cold damage, and then they would still freeze and shatter. I don't know if the other elements work that way, but like someone else said, it has nothing to do with who actually gets the killing shot.

Oh, and to the OP, it is my fault. My bard is stealing all of your kills. Even when I'm not in your party, I sneak into the instance and wait until the mob is almost dead to land the killing blow. All those deaths due to misadventure? That's really me also. I'm lurking in the shadows even now, waiting to strike :p

one thing I notice on My rogue quite often is that my Backstab damage seems to take on the Primary elemental Effect of the weapon I use... My Dual punctuers are Icy.... So I use em quite often on Ice Flensors.... And the Freeze and Shatter wuite ofthen.

[Quillion]

If you ever group with my rogue you can add my kills to your's as I don't use them.:rolleyes:

[Emili]

Why butt heads for the most kills? The thing is dead you should be happy.

BTW... it's the last hit which gets the kill. This is nothing more than a click of a button and a die roll btw... not neccessarily even DPS or maximum single damage swings. The last hit gets the kill.

Take for example a WF Barbarian swinging away and 5 mob with a greataxe ... glancing away at four mob which are agro'd on a fighter concentrating on one at a time without a doubt the fighter probably is hitting one for max dps but the barb may kill it with a glance at any given time. the fighter may even kill the one which the barb may have been focus'd on to begin with as his target changes from the one which just died...

Damage output has more to do with weapons. 2handed weapons deliver the most damages criting in the mid 100's on average (which crits in this game are very very commonplace) plus the glances. Yet one person with a single onehander can outkill these things at times just by being 1.) able to-hit consistantly and 2.) just by being diligent and moving from mob to mob swinging.

Know thy mob and thy weapon... I surely use greater banes and dr by-passing weapons when I feel I wish to take down a mob quick using pure damages ... however if I'm feeling lazy or just do not like standing there at a mob for too many swings It's not beyond me to pull out a vorpal from time to time ... madstone elite - I just did not feel like constantly switching between greater giant banes and greater monsterous humanoid banes and after a a short time just pulled out the vorpal greataxe... result like 98 kills - the closest other party member in the 50s ... even though they were using a high dps weapon. Why? cause against a high HP mob you'll hit 20's more often because you have to swing more and as far a crit confirms... with mob AC being what it is, a melee with a a to-hit in mid 30's unbuffed and lousy enhancements that you end up taking crit accuracy IV (+8 on confirms) you never miss on the confirm. Especially given the + for attack sequences.

The point? well think about it this way... a fighter with 32 strength, and weapon specialzation with power attack on delivers the same exact damages as another fighter with 32 strength, and weapon specialzation with power attack on given the same weapons...

I also do not get you're example as a +3 adam long sword is fine for a construct or stone but I know myself... I carry over 40 weapons on each melee.

[Tanka]

I carry over 40 weapons on each melee.
And I thought I was bad!

(Now down to ~20, woo!)

[Emili]

And I thought I was bad!

(Now down to ~20, woo!)

Emilee is bastard sword proficient while Emili Khopesh (they each have a page of those alone).

Well, yes and I have to admit some seldom see the light of day, while others get constant use... but then again some are more from a collector's point of view and eventually get retired when use is next to zero. ie.) They carry high + elemental weapons, cold iron, silver whatever, greater banes are my main liking and of course 2handers and epic weapons in a set of different varieties. for example Emili (a +4 frost khopesh of construct bane I use on the boss in PoP all the time)... yet throughout clearing the PoP halls I'll use either a paralyzing greatsword, a vorpal battleaxe of righteousness or a +1 flaming burst greataxe of greater dwarf bane depending on what the other party members are using... when it comes to each room depends on the mob as to what I'll bring out.

The one thing I've been toying with recently are high seeker weapons (since the new change to seeker adding damage before the crit multiplier)... I took Emilee to test out a +4 seeker bast-sword (seeker was +8) just in threnal... on a fighter these seem to deliver pretty good numbers considering the bonus is based (weapon damage + weapon plus + str mod + greater weapon spec + power attack + seeker) x crit multiplier - or when 2handed that same equation x 1.5.

[Tanka]

My main weapon is the SoS. I'll whip out the Tenderizer against Rhakshasa and the Giants in the preraid, but it's pretty much SoS all day, every day.

[Krysta_Shadowvol]

I think they should remove the Kill Count altogether. This game is supposed to be all about teamwork and the kill counter takes away from that but changing the focus to who killed the most.

I had a teammate apologize to me for stealing my kill in a group the other day. I told him there was no need since I don’t count kills.

I consider a quest successful if we finish with no death’s not based on how many kills I have cause if I counted kill’s my success rate would be really low.

[Emili]

I think they should remove the Kill Count altogether. This game is supposed to be all about teamwork and the kill counter takes away from that but changing the focus to who killed the most.

I had a teammate apologize to me for stealing my kill in a group the other day. I told him there was no need since I don’t count kills.

I consider a quest successful if we finish with no death’s not based on how many kills I have cause if I counted kill’s my success rate would be really low.

Exactly, I'm more than happy to get a mob agro and if a caster FOD's it, or a rogue sneak attacks it at last minute - great, I get to swing a little less... it means nothing more than the caster hit a button and the mob failed a save. Does it mean the caster is more skilled? LOL no. The kill count shows nothing about skill or playing ... if I wanted the most kills in a quest I can go solo a quest and get the most kills.:D

[sparty55]

Kill count means nothing.,.....

unless you count yesterday when my wizzy out-killed everyone else in the group combined 2-1 during PoP.....

Yeah yeah, kill count means nothing ;)