Get rid of Enhancements please, they've helped break the game! Use ACTION POINTS!

[Silverblade-T-E]

For goodness sake,Turbine, please have the cojones to get rid of enhancements entirely!

1) they are NOT D&D. They aren't. This is supposed ot be D&D. End of Story.

2) They unbalance the game. Overpowered PCs, require over powered NPCs, and you have an arms race that just mucks things up.
For proof of this, see the game right now, with melee having +12 or more to confirm crits (vorpal lunacy), nuke crits for 1,200 hp on a single foe, etc.

3) Eberron "Action Points" are nothing like this.

4) Pretty sure enhancments are helping to cause the increased server lag everyone is seeing nowadays, because the game's constantly checking ALL your crazy enhancements and querying the server!

If desired, put "Action Points" in the game instead, much MUCH easier to code and less server over head, not over powered, actual D&D mechanic.


MY SUGGESTED ACTION POINT MECHANICS, BASED ON THE EBERRON CAMPAIGN SETTING BOOK:
-You can get up to 5 action points at 1st level, each time you level, you restart from 0 action points, gaining up to 5+1/2 character level.
-For DDO, Action Points should recharge slowly, like 1/week or so.
-Gain Action points similar to current Enhancements, at certain points in each level.
-For DDO, when an Action Point use is triggered, let it affect ALL dice rolls and skills of the character, for 30 seconds or so.
Effect on Dice Rolls:
-1st to 7th level +1 to rolls
-8th--14th level +2 to rolls
-15th to 20th level +3 to rolls.

-This would affect *each and every dice roll* including mutliple dice rolls from a caster's spells or rogues sneak attack, meaning, say a 10th level wizard with Fireball would do 10d6+20 hp damage. A 10th level fighter would get +2 to all attacks, and dice of damage etc.
That's within D&D rules and DDO style of play.
-It would reduce server lag.
-NPCs would not need to be so hyper inflated.
-Get the game back closer to D&D.
-Make the action points either refresh very slowly (1/week or the like), or make them consumable (as per PnP rules), so you can't just use them willy-nilly and break game balance.

Please, please PLEASE do this Turbine, the game is degenerating into a hyper melee, hyper-mob munchkin *Generic, Mindless MMO* with less and less *D&D*.
I want to play D&D, not WOW!

:)

[wemery73]

if they keep nerfing the game noone will play.

[Silverblade-T-E]

If they hadn't deviated from D&D so much, and added so much crazy loot, they wouldn't be facing the Armageddon the game's been heading towards, which folk have warned about time and time again, and been ignored!

Devs are nerfing things because they're seeing the reuslts of their ill-considered actions.
The game needs fixed, pronto.

/sigh

[MysticTheurge]

I know that action points/enhancements deviate from the D&D rules, but... I actually like them. :eek:

With a few exceptions that seem a bit overpowered (dwarven/elven attack and damage, armor mastery), I think the enhancements are pretty good. It's a straight-forward system with plenty of choices (just like feats) that simply overlays on top of the current D&D rules.

[JayDubya]

I agree with MT - it's very nice to be able to respec a significant number of your enhancements as you level. In my experience, judicious use and respeccing of enhancements significantly changes the flavor of your character w/out having to reroll.

For example - turning a 17 into an 18 for a stat, or squeezing just a bit more to-hit, or being able to wear that spiffy twilight armor that you just found, etc.

In any case, it's not the enhancements that are the problem IMO. It's the combined brainpower of the players that discovers just how optimally one can stack feats and stances and abilities and weapons and buffs. Combine that with the static loot and you have recipes for uberness.

I don't think Turbine can fix player cleverness, nor should they...

[tihocan]

What's the point of such a thread? We all know enhancements aren't going anywhere, they just went through major trouble just to revamp the system.

[Hendrik]

What's the point of such a thread? We all know enhancements aren't going anywhere, they just went through major trouble just to revamp the system.

What I was wondering as well.

We had an AP system that was spiraling out of control in terms of power. It's one of the major reasons it was revamped into this, much better, system. Heather worked long and hard on this system and would hate to see her work go to waste.

[Cowdenicus]

What I was wondering as well.

We had an AP system that was spiraling out of control in terms of power. It's one of the major reasons it was revamped into this, much better, system. Heather worked long and hard on this system and would hate to see her work go to waste.

/cheer for Heather. Go TEAM!!!!

[Dane_McArdy]

What I was wondering as well.

We had an AP system that was spiraling out of control in terms of power. It's one of the major reasons it was revamped into this, much better, system. Heather worked long and hard on this system and would hate to see her work go to waste.

Me too, I wonder, what was the point of all that? They aren't going to change the game that dramatically.

But hey, let the OP knock themselves out, cause really, what are the chances of them changing the systemt to what he wants?

[Hendrik]

Me too, I wonder, what was the point of all that? They aren't going to change the game that dramatically.

But hey, let the OP knock themselves out, cause really, what are the chances of them changing the systemt to what he wants?

Slim to none Dane....

:)

On a side note, Heather where are you!?!?!?!

[Phainen]

I have to agree with the OP that the system SHOULD have been done closer to that than what we have. However, I think the enhancement point system we have now isn't half bad. In fact, I think it is quite good.

The boosts it provides really aren't all that powerful and it does allow for a lot of individualization for your characters which I like very much.

[Elfvyra]

No thank you. Although I would like to see some things removed from the list of Enhancements. for example, Drow MR. It's something they get automatically. Expecially with the addition of Dragonmarks, which Drow can't get.... ;)

[Eladiun]

I like the enhancement system also. I don't agree that the game is facing Armageddon in fact quite the opposite. I feel that the last two updates have been huge positive steps in the right direction. If they continue in this direction with MOD5 and bring all the stuff on the dev calender by the fall I think the game will be in position to make a huge jump.

[Dane_McArdy]

Well, the system the OP has laid out seems useless.

First, if you only get 5+ 1/2 level action points, which can be activated for 30 seconds for a +1 bonus to all rolls as the first tier of action points.

So at level 1, you get 5. At level 14, you would have 12.

and you get them back at the rate of 1 per week?

So you could blow through all your action points for a short time +1-3 bonus in one simple adventure, then have to wait at least week for another 30 second bonus? That doesn't not sound fun or useful.

And perhaps that is why they didn't go with a system like that, and went with the one they did.

[Furgulder]

I personally like the enhancements. Im afraid I disagree with the OP. /not signed.

[Balkas]

More customization > Less customization.

:)

Just because the parameters for the game are different than the parameters for D&D doesn't mean that the game is "unbalanced."

[Talcyndl]

1) they are NOT D&D. They aren't. This is supposed ot be D&D. End of Story.


Not really end of story at all.

[llevenbaxx]

I was adamantly against the original "AP" system. It was terrible for game balance and VERY poorly thought out with regards to a good number of game aspects. The new system while still a large departure from PnP lacks the big numbers and extreme exclusion of multiclassers.

Id prolly still drop it if it was up to me, god knows it would greatly ease Turbines job in balancing the game. Also, it aint never gonna happen. The enhancement system is Turbines little fingerprint on this "D&D" game, their baby if you will. Im sure PnP players would be more likily to agree with you but Im not thinking the MMO regulars would appriciate this alteration quite as much.

[Klattuu]

The concepts of enhancements is not the point where DDO deviated from D&D. The change came when stats of monsters were elevated. As damage from spells and weapons remained consistant, the effect of enhancements was essentially to make DDO avatars closer to power as their PnP counterparts.

So what was the reason to elevate the stats on monsters in the first place? It was the perception of difficulty and challenge of an encounter.

As encounters in PnP are time-warping experiences, where every 6 second round in game-time can take 5-10 minutes of real-time to resolve, and the fact that DDO rounds are accellerated to better reflect a more "real" experience, the perception of challenge did not translate well into a real-time environment. An encounter in D&D which lasts 5 rounds would last about 5-15 seconds in DDO. The perception is that DDO monsters offer little challenge per Monster Manual rules in a real-time environment because encounters are over too quickly.

D&D is a game system that ignores time. Real-time environments must take the physchology of the typical player into account and has to be very cogniscent of time.

Enhancements are not the issue.

[Mercules]

While the original AP/Enhancement system was unwieldy and overpowered, I believe that, with a few exceptions, the current set of Enhancements and the current functioning of the system is workable.

Yes, Enhancements are still pushing the level of mobs up some, but not as badly as before. Loot has a much greater effect on mob stats than Enhancements now, that should be where the fix is aimed, but that is hard to do without upsetting a majority of the population.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Ha!

Good luck with this.

Imagine the uproar if this went into effect.

Now, listen, Im not saying its a bad idea, Im saying that it will break the game. People just wont stand for such a drastic change.

[chemonz]

Couldn't disagree more with the op. I think the enhancement system in its current form works very well and allows for a great deal of customization. Two of my characters are sorcerers yet they are very different in style and how I play them. This would not be possible without the enhancement system. Action points in DDO as they exist in PnP would be utterly pointless and I have trouble seeing how they would be of any benefit.

[sigtrent]

Personaly I think the action point system is fun. In a few cases it actualy helps balance DnD where it has some weak spots and at the moment takes the place of prestige classes for allowing more specilized characters. (There are some crazy powerful prestige classes in PnP offering up to 16 attacks in a round <see whirling dervish> or +20 str <see bear warrior> etc...) I've seen these in action in tournaments and enhancements pale in comparison.

I can in some ways sympathise with the OP but judging by his other posts I'd say he has a pretty poor grasp of the 3.5 rules and is much more grounded in the way D&D was in 2nd edition. I don't think he really understands how some of the changes turbine made really are nessesary for this game to work as well as it does. I agree there are some problems in the way melee combat plays out, but his proposed solutions would create bigger problems when fixing relatively small ones.

There are two fundamental problems with a strict use of the rules in this game. Fights would be over way too fast feeling almost totaly random, or combat would be so slow you would feel like you were walking through molasis instead of playing out an adventure in real time. In PnP combats are over in seconds but it takes an hour or more to play them out. Making it real time without changes leads to a very slow experience but one where a single saving throw or attack can wipe you out untill the upper levels.

They had to inflate HP to make sure you get combats that arn't over in one swing and where a single attack takes a realistic ammount of time to make. While the specifics in DDO are different, strategicly the game works almost exactly the same. The same kinds of builds perform in similar ways and fill similar roles. The tactics for dealing with mosnters is very similar in most cases.

Right now I think the biggest game flaw is the AC vs To-Hit ratios. The graduated attacks in PnP ensure that even if you can hit someone for sure wtih one swing, the extra swings are a bit more luck based unless you totaly dominate the opponent. In DDO its more all or nothing and you can decimate anything you can reliably hit with yoru first swing in a chain.

I know he has issues with caster performance but honestly he is thinking about how they worked in 2nd edition where a powerful mosnter might have as few as 60 HP and a single high level damage spell could easily one shot them. (I was recently converting a 2nd ed module <ravenloft> and the big party wiping badguy Strad the vampire has 55HP or so. And its a level 11-14 module. His attacks do something like 1d6+4 damage. He does have level 8 spells, but one lucky shot and he's toast.)

[Megaton_Samurai]

D&D is not a good system. It is ok at the lower levels, but as modifiers become greater than 20, it quickly breaks down. Unfortunately, there is no good solution for this if DDO is going to be even remotely faithful to D&D.

So, while improving the core system is effectively impossible, introducing supporting systems to help out is a good idea. The (new) enhancement system is really quite good, despite the problems I have with it.

The combat engine itself does a LOT to mask D&D's inherent problems, and further work to improve that system will really help the game as well.

[llevenbaxx]

D&D is not a good system. It is ok at the lower levels, but as modifiers become greater than 20, it quickly breaks down. Unfortunately, there is no good solution for this if DDO is going to be even remotely faithful to D&D.

So, while improving the core system is effectively impossible, introducing supporting systems to help out is a good idea. The (new) enhancement system is really quite good, despite the problems I have with it.

The combat engine itself does a LOT to mask D&D's inherent problems, and further work to improve that system will really help the game as well.

Disagree that it is not a good system. Any system with set rules will be able to be exploited. If people look hard enough for loop holes in a game with static rulesthey will find them. If you just play the game in the spirit it was intended, the game can run near perfect, even at higher levels. There is the type of gamer that will question what determines a loop hole from creative thinking, but in my experience if you are asking that question you prolly already know what it is.

[Megaton_Samurai]

Disagree that it is not a good system. Any system with set rules will be able to be exploited. If people look hard enough for loop holes in a game with static rulesthey will find them. If you just play the game in the spirit it was intended, the game can run near perfect, even at higher levels. There is the type of gamer that will question what determines a loop hole from creative thinking, but in my experience if you are asking that question you prolly already know what it is.

There is quite a lot to explain here. I'll try to give you a quick rundown of why I think it's a bad system when dealing with numbers far greater than 20. Lets just take to-hit rolls. AC in this game can get upwards of 60+. If your to-hit bonus isn't at LEAST +41, you're not even taking part. You cannot participate with a mere +38 (when dealing with that kind of AC). This kind of engine requires min/max builds to handle high-end content. A min-max build that can hit +44 when a non min-max build can hit +40 has FIVE TIMES the damage output when dealing with a 60AC mob.

[sieg33]

While anyone can argue that reducing the uberness of both monsters and players would make the game much better it is pointless. I could possibly see them making little nerfs here and there like with HV and caster sp but not getting rid of them entirely. That will never(at least I doubt it will maybe they will prove me wrong someday) happen. Enhancements will stay here until the last server is closed imo.

[Uska]

Can never do Eberron action points truly in a real time game impossible

[Silverblade-T-E]

And folk want them cause they like the pwoer and don't really think about where it's all leading.

Allow total feat/skill respec 1/week, will let you tweak and alter as game changes. Ends that problem.

heather may have made a good job of 'em (better than they were but UGLY to actually set up, sigh), but they still distort D&D.

I realize the combat mechanics needed tweaks for a real time game, however, the insane melee attack boosts mean mobs die in a second..BORING! That is simply NOT fun. I want 'em to be more note worthy and last a bit.
:(

[sigtrent]

There is quite a lot to explain here. I'll try to give you a quick rundown of why I think it's a bad system when dealing with numbers far greater than 20. Lets just take to-hit rolls. AC in this game can get upwards of 60+. If your to-hit bonus isn't at LEAST +41, you're not even taking part. You cannot participate with a mere +38 (when dealing with that kind of AC). This kind of engine requires min/max builds to handle high-end content. A min-max build that can hit +44 when a non min-max build can hit +40 has FIVE TIMES the damage output when dealing with a 60AC mob.

Not so much. D&D 3.5 has a rock paper sizers kind of mechanic in it, especialy at higher levels but at all levels. A good DM does not present the party with nothing but high AC monsters, and not all the members of the party have a high AC. There are some monsters that non fighters have no chance of fighting in melee, and there are monsters that no fighter can effectively combat with a melee weapon. Sometiems you ened arcane magic, sometiems you need stealth, sometimes you need divine magic, sometimes you need lots of defense and sometimes you need lots of offense. The key to good adventure planing is to make sure all the members of the party can shine in one situation or another, not that they all need to be super effective in every situation.

So there is nothing wrong wiht monsters that only the best attackers can hit so long as that isn't all you go up against. If you go through the MM you will find lots of different kinds of critters at the same CR that pose different dangers to the characters and different strategies to defeat them due to their strenghts and weaknesses. That is what DDO and D&D have heads and shoulders above other MMO systems where pretty much all you have is Agro, DPS, Healing and Tanking, and you need all three all the time. Every fight is pretty much the same.

[MysticTheurge]

And folk want them cause they like the pwoer and don't really think about where it's all leading.

Have you ever known me to advocate for something just because it's more powerful?

I think the new enhancement system can easily be extended to epic levels without overpowering the game. The old one was, without a doubt, broken. But the new one is much better in terms of it's ability to extend beyond the current level without breaking dramatically.

[Saragon]

The enhancement system was always going to be a mess and nothing turbine has done has helped lessen the problem. Here are a couple of my issues with the system.

Classes with similar base attack bonuses should have have ended up with potential attack bonuses that were fairly close to each other. Enhancements like fighter strength bonuses have pushed the classes apart. I wouldn't wish to be the one in charge of deciding if monster AC should be set at levels where a cha heavy pally can provide a bit of melee support while the fighter hits every time or if the fighter has only a reasonable chance of a successful hit at the expense of the much lower strength pally almost always missing.

The enhancement system appears to foster diversity in builds but doesn't really. Again, why should fighters get strength bonuses? D&D allows the option of ranged fighters who have access to a host of ranged skills that a ranger could never hope to gain. That's balanced by those ranged fighters not gaining access to the ranger casting and abilites. In DDO a ranged fighter is left looking at several melee oriented enhancements and has to settle for enhancements that aren't ideal for the build but at least provide some small benefit.

[Megaton_Samurai]

The enhancement system was always going to be a mess and nothing turbine has done has helped lessen the problem. Here are a couple of my issues with the system.

Classes with similar base attack bonuses should have have ended up with potential attack bonuses that were fairly close to each other. Enhancements like fighter strength bonuses have pushed the classes apart. I wouldn't wish to be the one in charge of deciding if monster AC should be set at levels where a cha heavy pally can provide a bit of melee support while the fighter hits every time or if the fighter has only a reasonable chance of a successful hit at the expense of the much lower strength pally almost always missing.

The enhancement system appears to foster diversity in builds but doesn't really. Again, why should fighters get strength bonuses? D&D allows the option of ranged fighters who have access to a host of ranged skills that a ranger could never hope to gain. That's balanced by those ranged fighters not gaining access to the ranger casting and abilites. In DDO a ranged fighter is left looking at several melee oriented enhancements and has to settle for enhancements that aren't ideal for the build but at least provide some small benefit.

You basically have the same problem with it that I do. The class and level restrictions on enhancements need to be removed.

[Dane_McArdy]

And folk want them cause they like the pwoer and don't really think about where it's all leading.

Allow total feat/skill respec 1/week, will let you tweak and alter as game changes. Ends that problem.

heather may have made a good job of 'em (better than they were but UGLY to actually set up, sigh), but they still distort D&D.

I realize the combat mechanics needed tweaks for a real time game, however, the insane melee attack boosts mean mobs die in a second..BORING! That is simply NOT fun. I want 'em to be more note worthy and last a bit.
:(

We aren't going to see much more in terms of power added to the enhancement system. I doubt we will see more then +5 for 6-8 AP for given current lines. If that. +4 might be the most.

The insane melee attack bonus' have been way toned down with the new system.

What we will see is new lines, or special lines, like the new rogue and faith ones.

With some top end enhancements costing 6 AP, as they should, that means you will need to get 1.5 levels to get them, which means you will be slowing down what you can get.

So you can save and get really good at a few lines, or spread it around and be good at a lot of lines.

The classic DnD trade off. Excellence in few areas or versitility.

[Tasellhoff]

i really enjoy the enhancements they made all my characters better.

[Lorein_Azura_Childs]

They made my character better also, with the exception of having to pick up junk enhancements at least 1 or 2 times to open up the next set / or level of a particular enhancement ive been eyeing.

I suppose the only thing that could have been done better was if a wizard for example wanted to be a repair specialist they could conceivably pump points toward that only, but this would also imply that each level of said enhancements would be significantly weaker. As it stands right now my caster feels like a jack of all trades, master of none, but on that same note, by having access to so many different types of damage type spells kind of does make her a master of all trades... so I dont know what could be done here if anything. (Probably only an issue to be since I tend to CC as a caster. - and aside from spell penetration I didnt see much in the way of an enhancement that tailored itself to a crowd control type.)

[dragen77]

If they hadn't deviated from D&D so much, and added so much crazy loot, they wouldn't be facing the Armageddon the game's been heading towards, which folk have warned about time and time again, and been ignored!

Devs are nerfing things because they're seeing the reuslts of their ill-considered actions.
The game needs fixed, pronto.

/sigh


READ A BOOK
they are actually hurting us
I should be able to order my +2 Flame Burst Acid Burst Sword with no problem BUT NOOOOOOO I got to loot a chest and the Stupid loot Table will never let me Get my Sword because it Ignores MUTIPLE energy type on the generator.. LET GET CLOSER TO PNP FOR REAL
Lets see if the DEV and the Players call all READ the Eberron Books before they NERF or Say it's OVER POWERED

AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THE GODS (be they dark or light )PLEASE read a BOOK

"You shouldn't be able to buy 100 Blade Barrier scroll in PNP" ----WRONG
"There shouldn't be a +1 Tome on the Auction house"------Wrong
"There's no Way you could carry 1000 Scroll in your bag"---- WRONG

These are all thing I have read on these Forums!!!!!!
give me a Break if people read a book before they opened their mouth thing would be much better.

yes the action points system did give PC an unfair advantage in combat and yes they did way overcompensate on the monsters. But If we're going to get back to PNP let just do it if you want it to be pnp then suck it up.
NO rez shrine
NO mana shrine
NO mana
NO Action points
NO bonus 20 HP at first level
NO Protection from frindly fire
NO mercy

ASK FOR IT let them make a server of PURE PNP rule and see if you make it past 2nd level
I don't think you'll have the 10,000gp to get a Rez after the Party dumps their loot to carry your dead body back to the church to get a Rez

Before you ask for something Remember YOUR playing a GAME BASED ON a Different Game????
The only thing that should be the same is the Environment
Social Circles,
Politic,
Groups
The Economy,
The MONSTER,
and the Places Should be consider untouchable

But the mechanic are FAIR GAME

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Heh, in my opinion, if you want to spend your AP's more like how AP's are in D&D, only buy the boosts. It's the closest thing there is right now.

If you want it to be even closer, go start your own guild, with rules similar to the following:
No usage of any shrines whatsoever. (Or maybe rest shrines, your call).
No scrolls/wands/potions except that which you find in a quest/end reward.
Perma-death (can only get raised if the cleric can cast it).
Run through each quest once, and no more (maybe once per difficulty, or once period, your call). And try to do it at the level it's made for.
Only enhancements you can buy are the Boosts. If you limit yourself to no rest shrines, then these will only get used a couple times per adventure anyway.
No twinking. No AH. No brokers.

And so on.

Personally, I like the enhancements. I know they are not D&D, and if you want to make a more D&D-like experience you can do so for yourself and any who'll do it with you.

[Klattuu]

Perma-death (can only get raised if the cleric can cast it).

Don't forget permanent loss of level upon resurrection.

[Ithrani]

To take them out now would need a huge revamping to the entire game. Turbine screwed up big time with the enhancment system, not saying the new one isn't better, just saying the whole system should not have ever existed. The AP system the OP mentions is also in the new Unearthed Arcana and it is not so bad, but not a variant I would use.

Someone said Turbine is not responsible for player's cleverness, it is a known fact that MMO's attract the biggest Red Mage Muchkins (obscure but should be known by most players references) MMO player do everything they can think of to max out their characters potential. The great thing about the PnP system is that it is very difficult to create unbalanced god like characters unless the DM is allowing it. The fact that my level 14 melee DDO toon could wipe the floor with the UBER and I mean UBER 19th level tank in my PnP party is just a shame. DDO is WAY overpowered, is it fun, sure, do I like the enhancement system, a bit, but is it DnD? NO!!!!! But the DEVS still state they try their best to stick to the PnP rules. Yet time and time again they have proven this to be a false statement.

I am going to find a gaming company to create a true to PnP rules DDO that uses digital miniatures and a turn based battle system, with stage builders for DM's that can be played as an MMO. Actually I probably can't but if anyone out there knows who can contact me cause I have a brilliant idea that would make true DnD players so overjoyed.

[Dane_McArdy]

I am going to find a gaming company to create a true to PnP rules DDO that uses digital miniatures and a turn based battle system, with stage builders for DM's that can be played as an MMO. Actually I probably can't but if anyone out there knows who can contact me cause I have a brilliant idea that would make true DnD players so overjoyed.

Why don't you start with WoTC and see if they let you. Or maybe Atari.

[MysticTheurge]

I am going to find a gaming company to create a true to PnP rules DDO that uses digital miniatures and a turn based battle system, with stage builders for DM's that can be played as an MMO. Actually I probably can't but if anyone out there knows who can contact me cause I have a brilliant idea that would make true DnD players so overjoyed.

Or you could just use a program like OpenRPG (http://www.openrpg.com/) to do it yourself.

[Silverblade-T-E]

OpenRPG was very clunky
a voice server, and/or fantasygrounds, is a better choice, imho :)

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Don't forget permanent loss of level upon resurrection.

Ah, thank you. Forgot about that. And -1 con if raised at level 1.



You know, you don't need a whole map and everything. A couple other DDO-ers and I are playing an Eberron campaign of D&D, standing on a table in the Wavecrest using voicechat and /roll. Heh, talk about a table-top game.

[CSFurious]

only of the only reasons that i continue to play this game is because of the enhancement system

it is a great improvement over the original AP system & is a great addition to this game

[sigtrent]

The fact that my level 14 melee DDO toon could wipe the floor with the UBER and I mean UBER 19th level tank in my PnP party is just a shame. DDO is WAY overpowered, is it fun, sure, do I like the enhancement system, a bit, but is it DnD? NO!!!!! But the DEVS still state they try their best to stick to the PnP rules.

That just has to do wtih your campaign, and not the game rules.

Every year a local con here has a D&D torunament. They set some rules and you make characters, you make them as rediculously powerful as you can under the rules.

Last year in the level 12 tournament I was hit in the first round of a fight with two maximized holy flame strikes (one quickened one normal). This from a priest with a Gargantuan dancing Spiked Chain a permanent greater Blink enchantment and a number of other bits of nastyness. You might think "impossible!" but no. Totaly legit, every piece of it from the rules, meticulously documented by the player. There was a guy who could shoot 6 slaying arrows as a readied action. I was able to do around 12 attacks with wounding scimitars in one round, etc etc...

The year before there was a level 20 tournament. There were characters with 60+ str, folks doing 20 attacks, rogues wtih 100s of 9th level scrolls, wizards that could chain time stop, a guy that could clone himself 8 times in 2 rounds, a druid who summoned about 50 high level pets, and on and on... DDO is tame by comparison.

[Lizardgrad89]

You know, you don't need a whole map and everything. A couple other DDO-ers and I are playing an Eberron campaign of D&D, standing on a table in the Wavecrest using voicechat and /roll. Heh, talk about a table-top game.


Mental image:

A Human Cleric, Dwarven Fighter, Halfling Rogue, and Drow Sorcerer, sitting in a tavern, drinking Ghallinda Distillate and eating Beef Stew, playing D&D 3.5.

The concept boggles.

That's like a high school student playing a computer game where she is a high school student.

Oh, wait. Sims.

Never Mind.

:)

[Seneca_Windforge]

I know that action points/enhancements deviate from the D&D rules, but... I actually like them. :eek:

With a few exceptions that seem a bit overpowered (dwarven/elven attack and damage, armor mastery), I think the enhancements are pretty good. It's a straight-forward system with plenty of choices (just like feats) that simply overlays on top of the current D&D rules.

Dwarven attack and damage? Probably -- you get thrown weapons, light weapons, one-handed weapons, and two-handed weapons rolled up into one enhancement. But elven? Not even close. Two weapons, and both of them are one-handed and non-finesseable. One of them isn't even that good (longsword).

[underlordone]

if u have so much lag try this. Turn off dm and chat lag gose to a wimper. Lag in giant hold with chat on pain off maybe 2 secs with 3 intance.

[Aesop]

hmmm...


So you're a Corpse and I'm a liche now rise and be my undead...


oh hell

Raise Thread

[Twerpp]

Maybe when they have more classes, prestige classes, and races sure get rid of them.

As it stands right now the enhancement system is about the only way to flesh out your character and not have a cookie cutter class.

Do you really want everyone to be the same? Or the only difference between two races of the same class to be a couple stat points? Because that would be extremely boring dude.

I like the enhancement system its more fun this way and I we all have more options.

You want D&D go play D&D and get a fraction of the action you get here in a night's gameplay. Have fun listening to your DM drone on and take 15 minutes fighting 1 room full of orcs and arguing about flanking bonuses and flat-footed AC (ok I admit I do miss this :D ). This is way more fast paced than tabletop and the enhancements are a big part of that...Maybe it will help if you think of D&D as a regular NBA video game and DDO being the NBA Jam Arcade Version...HE'S ON FIRE!!!! HE JUST MADE HIS THIRD FULL COURT SHOT!! TRIPLE BACKFLIP SLAM DUNK!!!

[Drider]

Teh Necro.

[Tharris]

While I agree with the OP in theory ( I dislike the idea of the enhancement system), it has been implemented well in this game, and does keep things in balance for what us players are expected to come up against. (and I kinda like stats in the 20's and 30's :-) )

I think it would be interesting to see DDO 2. Where most things remain the same, but the enhancements are taken out ( and the uber weapons). At Lvl 14, I should be doing ok, with one stat in the low 20's, an AC of 30 , and some +3 weapons. SR can be a life saver.

Would players migrate to DDO 2, or stay on our current version?

[GlassCannon]

Would players migrate to DDO 2, or stay on our current version?

'nuff said.

[llevenbaxx]

Would players migrate to DDO 2, or stay on our current version?

Would definitely check it out. I kinda wonder how many more different feats could be implimented in this game if they put the time to it, intead of the enhancement system. They'd have to have more than they do now or characrter customization might feel a little vanilla.

As a PnP player I can say that the "new" enhancements do kinda feel like just another way to customize now. For someone who MCs alot, they really allow many different alleys to go up with you characters.

[GlassCannon]

Our current DM likes the Enhancement system, and so do we. It sets a Rogue 14 Tinker apart from a Rogue2/Ranger12 with comparable base skill values. With enhancements the Rogue will get parties and the Ranger will do his/her thing as a ranger. Without enhancements the Ranger gets the Rogue's job, and does his/her thing too, and the Rogue is SOL.

As one example.


Please stop asking for nerfs and ask for things to be buffed to balance the equation.

[ErgonomicCat]

RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE!



I am going to find a gaming company to create a true to PnP rules DDO that uses digital miniatures and a turn based battle system, with stage builders for DM's that can be played as an MMO. Actually I probably can't but if anyone out there knows who can contact me cause I have a brilliant idea that would make true DnD players so overjoyed.


DnD 4.0!

[GramercyRiff]

If they hadn't deviated from D&D so much, and added so much crazy loot, they wouldn't be facing the Armageddon the game's been heading towards, which folk have warned about time and time again, and been ignored!

Devs are nerfing things because they're seeing the reuslts of their ill-considered actions.
The game needs fixed, pronto.

/sigh

Pandora's Box is already opened. The only way to fix it is to nuke it out of orbit, it's only way to be sure.

While I agree it's out of hand from a vanilla PnP game, it's just too late to do anything about it. The decision was made early on in the game's life to give out uber gear and allow us uber abilities. While I strongly disagree with the direction this game took in the early stages, really this is no different from what PnP can become. There are at least hundreds of different ways to make characters in PnP. Of those ways, there are some that implode the game in upon itself, some that are quite powerful, and some that are balanced with the Monster Manual, and some that just plain suck. And then there's the little guy named Pun Pun. Nothing in DDO surpasses the power of a god does it? The point is that a PnP game can have incredibly powerful PC's in it. DDO emulates that aspect of PnP.

And for the record, I think the enhancement system, while not PnP related really, is a well thought out way for us to customize our characters. It's one of the reasons I continue to play this game. It's a very well done feature, PnP be damned. This coming from a die hard PnP uber dork.

[Impaqt]

If they hadn't deviated from D&D so much, and added so much crazy loot, they wouldn't be facing the Armageddon the game's been heading towards, which folk have warned about time and time again, and been ignored!


/sigh

You should mention that al the doomsayers have NEVER been right so far.....

Its the nature of MMO's your allways going to have doom and gloom from a handful of bored players....

Our action Points and enhancements are fine.... So what.. We get rid of Enhancements and the dsevs spend a month rebalancing....

Wat have we gained? We're all now less tough and the mobs are allless dificult... Sounds like a wash to me.

[GramercyRiff]

You should mention that al the doomsayers have NEVER been right so far.....

Its the nature of MMO's your allways going to have doom and gloom from a handful of bored players....

Our action Points and enhancements are fine.... So what.. We get rid of Enhancements and the dsevs spend a month rebalancing....

Wat have we gained? We're all now less tough and the mobs are allless dificult... Sounds like a wash to me.

Agreed. We dont' need more dev resources rebalancing this game. It is what it is. Now let's move on and devote resources to new content please.

[GeneralDiomedes]

hmmm...


So you're a Corpse and I'm a liche now rise and be my undead...


oh hell

Raise Thread

Hmm .. doesn't Raise Thread incur a permanent -1 penalty to WIS and INT?

[Cyr]

lack of new content, devs changing existing rules (not varying from pnp but changing game rules as time goes on), and from bad customer service. No one I know has ever stated that they are leaving (even in part) because everyone has a vorpal, their enhancments are too strong, or because the game is MONTY HAUL. Enhancements were in original incarnation...lame because there was no variability between what one person would take for class A as opposed to another. The rebalance of the system to encourage multiclassing was controversal, but devs have shown a willingness to add new enhancements for certain classes for balancing effects between classes which is highly desirable over 'nerfing' people. I would HATE to play my bard without enhancments, it would be boring as heck, but with them she is a blast to play. Also, nerfing yet another thing in this game seems like a bad idea for keeping customers.

/not signed

[Invalid_86]

In the short run killing enhancements would result in some whining. In the long run it would be a godsend. people would cry nerf...until they realize that monsters can be brought closer to sane levels.

The only real reason to keep them is for customization purposes. But say this time next year if another class or two comes along, we see a few prestige classes, a set of new feats integrated, crafting, and a couple more skills come along that excuse pretty much vanishes.

Say that would be about the time that 4.0 comes out. Maybe just nuke it from orbit and have the game just follow the rules from then on?