So how does the dragon raid work?

[JelloMold]

I've run the Vons all the way through once, and was bored to tears. I've seen some threads about people looking for new ways to do the end of the raid without having to have someone run bases and die/ressurect. I vowed that I would never do the dragon again unless it could be interesting. I like trying to find out ways to do things etc.

I've got 2 new level 8s and I know the Vons are calling. So I'll be tempted to hit them soon.

My question is about the raid timer. I know you can only repeat it every so often, but does that matter if you win or lose? For example, say I run all the way through and then try something new on the dragon and have a wipe;
Do I have to run VON 1-4 again, or just 5&6?

I understand the reasons for wanting to do things the way everyone knows will work, but I just hate going through the motions which is what it feels like to me. I really hate the idea of a willful death as the only strategy to complete the mission. (...hmm I wonder if PermaDeath people recruit someont to die when they do the Dragon?)

[The_Cataclysm]

Timer only starts once you get the end reward so if you fail there is nothing stoppping you right back into VoN 5.

[Clorkan]

My question is about the raid timer.

In responce to your question, all of the raid timers are only triggered upon completion of the quest. Not when you get your reward, although the timers do not start their countdown until this time.

What this means is that once you complete the quest, killing whatever needs to be killed, and you get your xp for completion you are placed on a raid timer and are not able to enter the raid again until the timer counts down. Unfortunately, this timer does not start counting down until you speak to the NPC that gives you your end reward and you choose your reward. Sometimes it is a good idea to speak to these NPCs a second time to insure that your timer has started.

If you are unsure about your timer status or if your timer has started, in your chat window you can type "/quest" and it will list down all your raid timers.

[JelloMold]

So then what stops people from trying to find the new ways to complete this? If we can fail and then jump back in, it seems like a new solution could be found rather quickly.

I know that most people just like doing it the quick and easy way, but it seems like it shouldn't be that hard to find an alternative to the decoy=death route. Oh well, I guess I'm in the minority....wouldn't be the first time. Looks like more CO6 runs (and Threnal...shudder) in my future. Anyone try out the Desert with 8s? I've only run 2 quests in there and was 11 at the time.

[Brianius]

jello i know your on ghallanda send a in game mail to brianius i also would like a alternative to opening the dragon

[Blazer]

So then what stops people from trying to find the new ways to complete this? If we can fail and then jump back in, it seems like a new solution could be found rather quickly.

I know that most people just like doing it the quick and easy way, but it seems like it shouldn't be that hard to find an alternative to the decoy=death route. Oh well, I guess I'm in the minority....wouldn't be the first time. Looks like more CO6 runs (and Threnal...shudder) in my future. Anyone try out the Desert with 8s? I've only run 2 quests in there and was 11 at the time.

Unfortunately, if you fail VON 6 you need to go back through VON 5 again. That usually inhibits people trying new stuff against Velah.

If you're dreading the lvl 8-10 range, try some other quests to help get you there. I recommend The Pit (yeah I know, but it's worth a ton), Tear of Dhakan, and Xorian Cypher as good alternative XP quests. There is also Tempest, always a good choice. Also, try doing some favor runs - you'll be surprised the XP you can rack up pretty easily by doing a series of low-middle quests on elite, nevermind the usual suspects (Delara's, TR, SC, Gwylan's). Heck, just keep running VON 1-4 if you want, you can always just skip VON 5-6. :)

[Gimpster]

I know that most people just like doing it the quick and easy way, but it seems like it shouldn't be that hard to find an alternative to the decoy=death route.
Now that characters have advanced 4 levels above what they had when Vault of Night first came out, it's easy to do it with no deaths. I use a simple system:
1. Send one tank to each pillar.
2. Tanks kill the monsters, and damage the pillar.
3. Tanks kill the respawned monsters, and kill the pillar.
4. Everyone come back and go into dragon.

Basically, with the level of power you can bring in there, one strong character can managably handle the pillar and it's guards all by himself.

[AegisAndy]

In addition to what Gimp just posted, another valid method is to send a tank to each pillar with a cleric about 1/4 of a bridge-length behind him. If the cleric keeps his distance, he won't aggro the dragon fireballs, but he can keep the fighter healed while he clears the platform.

You could alternatively drag the mobs back to home base with a defensive-style tank in block mode and leave a cleric or two down there to keep him healed. Three other tanks go out, kill the pillars and then return to home base to kill the mobs.

It's also worth noting that it doesn't necessarily take a tank to take down a pillar. Almost any non-caster class with a construct bane (the pillars are constructs) weapon will blow through a pillar in good time. Rangers with many shot and a construct bane bow can really knock em down quickly.

Unfortunately, since Von5 takes a fair amount of time, even with a good party, parties generally hate doing unusual things on Von6.

[~Bandage]

I've got a related question concerning the dragon strategy. I was in 2 groups recently doing the dragon, one a pug, one a guild group. In both, the same thing happened... my question is whether anyone else saw this and it's an AI change, or if someone just messed up.

Situation: First base cleared as normal. Clearing tank dies at home, everything normal. Tank then goes on to second base, pulls all the mobs back to home, dies. Everything looking normal... until all the pulled mobs bum rush the half-afk group sitting by the dragon entrance.

(one note: I was playing cleric in one, wizzy in other, so I wasn't pulling. However, the tanks involved were both experienced at doing the run)

What happened? Human error, or AI change?

Thanks in advance

[Balkas]

Did they /death or get killed?

How packed in were the mobs?

Was anyone out toward home that could've aggroed things?

[~Bandage]

1: They allowed the mobs to kill them
2: According to pullers, the mobs were packed on the far side of home plate, right where they're supposed to be.
3: The mobs actually charged the group before the cleric had moved up to res. There was nobody even close to home to get aggro.

[Balkas]

You can't let the mobs kill you; you have to /death.

[bobbryan2]

You can't let the mobs kill you; you have to /death.

This is false.

Secondly.. it's happened to me too. Only twice that I can remember in all my dragon runs... but after killing the person, they just bumrush the whole party. It's hilarious when it happens, because just a few flensers and eles can wipe an entire raid group when they're caught unaware. (I have a sick sense of humor about such things)

The easiest way to do this quest, is to send one good tank out, aggro all three islands, make sure they all follow you back in one go, and then just let them kill you.

Yeah, I know people don't like to hear that. But it takes 2 minutes if done correctly, and only a single death.

It's not that big of a deal.

[Balkas]

Ok you don't *have* to /death by any means. There are plenty of other methods available.

But if you pull the mobs to home and they kill you, they'll wander.

[Sequell]

There is a easy no-death solution as well...Take a Bard with you have him run the bases and fascinate everything then take down pillars and kill dragon. Nice and simple.:)

[Qzipoun]

I ran von 5/6 yesterday with a pug and we got to the dragon without anyone dying. I'm not too sure how we did it but basically a sorcerer went running around while we all waited, he did his thing, we went to break the pillars and were all set with no deaths (ok... i lied when the door opened, right before we rushed to the dragon we got attacked by 2 elementals and maybe an ice flenser from behind, whoever they hit first died but we turned around and killed them in two seconds). I know this isn't an extremely helpful post but it just shows that there's a way to do it without dying.

[~Bandage]

Yeah, I'm familiar with the other methods. I was just wondering if anyone else noticed an AI change since the last update concerning the bases. Since you got hit from behind, I'm guessing you had the same AI that we did, only we had pretty much all of the elementals, flensers, and mephits show up.

[Zenix_Leviticus]

You should read the other thread on this topic.

You don't have to die to pull the bases or beat velah.

It happens from time to time, but it shouldn't be a part of your
strategy.

Don't say it is faster to die, because I have seen this raid beat in 7-8 minutes
without anyone dieing.

[DaGSO]

Whenever I get the last quests in crucible, the underwater one, I always /death. So dieing is no biggee....just get a rez and rez the others.

[Crabo]

Ok you don't *have* to /death by any means. There are plenty of other methods available.

But if you pull the mobs to home and they kill you, they'll wander.

haha, maybe someone should have told that to all the mobs i have let me kill me in the past 60+ runs, because they sure didnt know about it.