PETITION for full character Respec!!!!!!

[Chorus]

PETITION FOR A FULL CHARACTER RESPEC!!!!!!!!!!!!

PETITION FOR A FULL CHARACTER RESPEC!!!!!!!!!!!!

PETITION FOR A FULL CHARACTER RESPEC!!!!!!!!!!!!

PETITION FOR A FULL CHARACTER RESPEC!!!!!!!!!!!!

Full character Resec:

1. Reset to Skill points.
2. Reset to level 1 with all previous obtained EXP so you can train him back up as you desire.
3. Reset to all feats.
4. All previous gear will still be held.

2 out of 3 of my level 14's are now nerfed and I would like to see a full character respec allowed. Let me explain.

Lvl 14 Human Bard

1. Humans were great bards but now with the nerf to the skill enhancement (human versatility) i'm forced to lose a feat to UMD focus and I'm still 2 UMD short as before.
2. Area effects scrolls NERFED. This KILLS a bards versatility. What should I use now magic missile wands? I'm now reserved to the 2nd healer / buffer in the group, how fun!!!!

Lvl 12 Paladin/2 Rogue

1.Evasion nerfed. You can call it a fix but either way we were told by the top ranking developer that this would NOT be changed. This means goodbye to my Titan Plate /Dragon Plate and considering I didn't place enough dex to compensate for the Dex bonus for the Dragon Scale Armor he's gimped out.



I want to see a full character resepec allowed considering all the nerfeing you Dev's keep doing. It's only fair considering the constant changes you've made to severely hurt many peoples characters and forceing many to rebuild.

[Dane_McArdy]

No, not needed.

I'm asking that all petition threads be autodeleted.

[barecm]

Well, another propsed change, another clamour for a respec. Although I am all for it, the precidence is that they just don't care if our toons get broken or not. The last round of debates centered around the enhancment respec proved this point. There are builds that just cannot function properly without having certain levels of skill points in certain areas. Although difficult for all to recognize, it does exist. Probably not the majority, but it does eixst. Unfortunately, there has been no compasion from Turbine on these points. Simply put, they just don't concern themselves with the total impact of change. It is a bandaid mentallity...checkers instead of chess thinking. Not a lot of foresight.

[Chorus]

Unfortunately, there has been no compasion from Turbine on these points. Simply put, they just don't concern themselves with the total impact of change. It is a bandaid mentallity...checkers instead of chess thinking. Not a lot of foresight.

I Soooooooooooooooo agree. Thank you!! Quote of the week!!!!!

[barecm]

I Soooooooooooooooo agree. Thank you!!

I think maybe what I said also got a little extreme, they do think things out, but choose to go 'all in' instead of maybe tweaking a little, see how it goes, then maybe a little more and so forth. Like with scrolls, limit them first, then maybe a bit more, then if it is still a problem, take them away. By violently making changes, it tends to break other things. With this last change it will totally ruin one of my favorite parts of DnD and (until this change) DDO... the rogue using UMD to cast scrolls and wands. Myabe the subtle approach would be best here. Let us carry only a handful of AoE spells (5, 10, or 1 even). While wands may stay part of the rogues arsenal, there are simply not enough good ones to buy and finding them is a challenge with the rogue's current loot table. Scrolls, although a bit pricy, are nice to have to give a little versitilty to an otherwised trap monkey / damage dealing mana sponge (from a healer's prospective) type existence.

[Mearamar]

I am not much on complaining, but this is one time I have to agree. Now that being said, I think that players should have to prove to a GM that the change has nerfed their character. I have several UMD characters that are now stuck. First the Human Vers. now the scroll AOE nerf. I don't like the fact that we build our characters based on the rules they give us, and now they change the rules. I think we need to present our case to them and explain to them what we want changed. I don't think a broad respec would be fair. Many people don't need it, or just want to change a poor decision that has nothing to do with the changes. I say that they need to set up a way we can respec if we don't like the changes. It is not cool to make a UMD almost useless. I will see when the update goes live. I think turbine needs to consider how people feel when they change stuff like this.

[barecm]

I am not much on complaining, but this is one time I have to agree. Now that being said, I think that players should have to prove to a GM that the change has nerfed their character. I have several UMD characters that are now stuck. First the Human Vers. now the scroll AOE nerf. I don't like the fact that we build our characters based on the rules they give us, and now they change the rules. I think we need to present our case to them and explain to them what we want changed. I don't think a broad respec would be fair. Many people don't need it, or just want to change a poor decision that has nothing to do with the changes. I say that they need to set up a way we can respec if we don't like the changes. It is not cool to make a UMD almost useless. I will see when the update goes live. I think turbine needs to consider how people feel when they change stuff like this.

If you give it to one person, give it to all. A one time respec is fine. Making it subjective will only infuriate those who are declined. If you think you do not need to respec your character, then simply don't.

I am not so sure I understand all the bitterness towards this idea that other people have since it will not affect them if they choose to do nothing.

[Marabias]

No, not needed for me to be happy.

I'm asking that all petition threads be autodeleted.

Fixed it for you :)

[Quillion]

I don't get it. If we got a respec on all of our characters there would be people wanting it again with the next update. Seems kind of like chasing your tail.

[Dane_McArdy]

It frightens me when people don't agree with me so I Fixed it for you :)

Same back at you.

[Dane_McArdy]

I don't get it. If we got a respec on all of our characters there would be people wanting it again with the next update. Seems kind of like chasing your tail.

Exacatly! And from each time there is a change, to whenever they want.

[ArkoHighStar]

I don't get it. If we got a respec on all of our characters there would be people wanting it again with the next update. Seems kind of like chasing your tail.

Make everyone aware that it is a one time event available for a limited time, there are those of us who have been here since headstart that started with a very diferent set of rules than we have today, who did not have the knowledge that we have today, and enough has changed I think that a respec would be a nice gesture, not all of us have th time to rebuild all out chars every time we have a major change.

[Radsyn]

Game altering, Sweeping changes made to a game like this are usually not in the best intrest of the players, but in the best intrest of whomever ownes the game. What people need to realize is that for the most part Turbine doesnt care what we as paying customers want. if they did there would be Poles instead of vote for the next emote.

I personally have had 3 of my characters Modified by Turbine so they no longer have the skills to do what i made them to do, and i do believe it is unfair to the paying customer to be treated as such, n btw yes 2 of my altered chars are 32pt builds i dont even look foward to playing anymore.

Soon More games will come out and it wont matter, but i personally wont be giving Turbine anymore of my $ if i leave here as all of my RL friends i joined ddo with have done.

[rabrams99]

id even be happy with a 300% xp bonus to all newly made toons created after a certain date up to level 12. (from an old account...say...from the date i started :P)

[Dane_McArdy]

Make everyone aware that it is a one time event available for a limited time, there are those of us who have been here since headstart that started with a very diferent set of rules than we have today, who did not have the knowledge that we have today, and enough has changed I think that a respec would be a nice gesture, not all of us have th time to rebuild all out chars every time we have a major change.

They could sing it from the top of the mountain till the cows come home that it would be one time, one time only, never to be repeated again, don't even ask, cause if you do it's a spanking and no dessert.

And people would say, you did it once, do it again, I didn't get a chance to take advantage of it, I was on vacation, my cat was using the computer.

[Mockduck]

I think the OP has raised some good points about how his characters have been affected by the changes to the game in recent months, but I still don't think a full respec is a good idea.

If the developers agreed - once - to do a full respec due to a game change like this, then every time something is changed there will be people clamoring for a respec, and if the devs don't agree to it, cries of prejudice-unfairness-why-not kind of thing going on.

And who's to judge that the "UMD Nerffix" is greater than the "insert change here Nerffix" to the "evasion Nerffix"

Nerf?!?!? Fix?!?!?!?= Nerffix

I sometimes do feel sorry for people who have characters affected by changes, but there's no way to start down this slope without it becoming a constant hassle and battle between the creators of the game and its more vocal players.

The only constant in an MMO is constant change, so it's best to be pragmatic about this kind of thing and either adapt, live with it or reroll. I tend to fall into the "live with it" crowd.

[barecm]

Exacatly! And from each time there is a change, to whenever they want.

What possible impact could allowing someone to respec have? A happier player? Does it impact your character somehow that I am missing? You would think that a respec some how took away some of your abilities the way people make it sound sometimes. It is really just to keep people happy who think their toon is broken by a change. I really don't care if their toon is broken or not.. I do care if they continue to play.

[Chorus]

Game altering, Sweeping changes made to a game like this are usually not in the best intrest of the players, but in the best intrest of whomever ownes the game. What people need to realize is that for the most part Turbine doesnt care what we as paying customers want. if they did there would be Poles instead of vote for the next emote.


My feelings exactly

[barecm]

They could sing it from the top of the mountain till the cows come home that it would be one time, one time only, never to be repeated again, don't even ask, cause if you do it's a spanking and no dessert.

And people would say, you did it once, do it again, I didn't get a chance to take advantage of it, I was on vacation, my cat was using the computer.

Does it really matter though? It really doesn't hurt the game, it just keeps folks happy.

[Marabias]

I don't get it. If we got a respec on all of our characters there would be people wanting it again with the next update. Seems kind of like chasing your tail.

If Turbine keeps making sweeping changes to the game then what choice do we have? Suck it up and play anyways? Start a new toon all over again? Or just quit out of frustration?

A re-spec hurts no one at all. Not one person. Unless you are hurt by watching other people enjoy there characters again. Or hurt by watching people come back to the game again.

[Dane_McArdy]

There really is no way to prove if a character has been nerfed to complete uselessness. To much of it is perspective.

If you had a UMD character, and managed to get UMD high enough that you could use any item or scroll without any chance of failure, and after the changes, you didn't have as high a UMD, you could easily say that character is completely useless, because he isn't failsafe anymore, and that was the whole point of the character in the first place.

Well, paper DnD isn't about being able to be failsafe, so why should DDO?

lets say you built a character to be able to disable any trap or pick any lock, and after a few changes, now has a small chance of failure on the hardest locks.

Both of those examples are still playable. While the 100% aspect of success has been removed from their abilities, they are still playable.

In paper, dungeons, good dungeons, at higher levels are crafted for the players skills. If your paper party rogue has a disable device skill of say, 25, you can bet the DM is going to make sure traps have DCs of 35 or more. So that traps are still a challenge.

Well, these adventures are designed for thousands of players, all with varying degrees of difficulty. But there should always be a chance, no matter what level, of failure, even if it's just 1 in 20.

So who's really to say how unplayable a character was made by a change? Bards lost some of the songs they can play per rest. But if they took lingering song, they actually ended up with more song time over all.

A persons personal perspective isn't a good measure on if a change was a total nerf of the character. Someone else may find that character completely playable, and maybe even better.

And that's what the dev's consider when making changes. They can't make a game for individuals, so they make it for the masses.

[Megaton_Samurai]

They could sing it from the top of the mountain till the cows come home that it would be one time, one time only, never to be repeated again, don't even ask, cause if you do it's a spanking and no dessert.

And people would say, you did it once, do it again, I didn't get a chance to take advantage of it, I was on vacation, my cat was using the computer.

I've already suggested this, but here it is again.

They need to tag every account for full, from scratch, respec. That account can respec any one character, then the flag is lost. Every year, that flag is re-enabled on all accounts. Make it an in-game holiday or something.

This game will not stop changing. I don't think respeccing one character, once per year is too much to ask for. Or in your case, put up with.

[QuantumFX]

I don't get it. If we got a respec on all of our characters there would be people wanting it again with the next update. Seems kind of like chasing your tail.

Quillion and Dane,
Respectfully, I have to ask - How does giving a free respec after major game changes hurt anyone? So what if someone wants to go in a completely different direction with a character. How does this hurt DDO, Turbine or players in general?
I can give you some good reasons how this can be a good thing for everyone.
1) It builds goodwill towards Turbine in general and upcoming rules changes in particular.
2) It allows people to enjoy the characters.
3) It keeps players from suffering DDO burnout because they "Had to run Waterworks for the 50 billionth time."

[Chorus]

A re-spec hurts no one at all. Not one person. Unless you are hurt by watching other people enjoy there characters again. Or hurt by watching people come back to the game again.


EXACTLY!! So stop complaining about respec people.

[Dane_McArdy]

I've already suggested this, but here it is again.

They need to tag every account for full, from scratch, respec. That account can respec any one character, then the flag is lost. Every year, that flag is re-enabled on all accounts. Make it an in-game holiday or something.

This game will not stop changing. I don't think respeccing one character, once per year is too much to ask for. Or in your case, put up with.

The same thing. They give every account a once a year one character one respec, and it won't be enough.

people will say, I need it twice a year, three times, whenever I want.

The game won't stop changing. But players refuse to change. That's the real problem. The person that wants to make a 100% successful toon will never accept anything less.

[Chorus]

3) It keeps players from suffering DDO burnout because they "Had to run Waterworks for the 50 billionth time."


OH MY GOD!!! I'm running Waterworks on my new evasion tank as we speak because of the new Nerf to evasion!!!

[Zenako]

Ok by respec you mean taking the character name and its starting stats and begining all over again from scratch. Working out enhancements, skills and stat point boosts, all the while maintaining your gear and favor and experience, right.

I presume that the database might contain your original base stats, but what if they do not, and it only reflects the current stats (after level up boosts). Now how would they revert a character to its starting stats per level boosts. Rely on the memory of the player. This starts to involve a lot of player/GM interaction and give and take.

What about all the people who spent time and effort to get Shards to change a single feat via Fred. With one swipe you have now made all that effort and in game plat meaningless.

As Dane indicated I guess I have a very different view than some on what breaks a character. Going from 100% success to 80% success does not break a character in my mind. Going from 100% to 0% does. I will offer that the changes being floated about scrolls do not break characters, but might break certain playstyles. If the toon is only your extension into the game to execute a playing style then you will be impacted. My characters will be impacted slightly, but not to the extent that I feel any of them would remotely be considered being nerfed.

As for how respecs could hurt others, I see it this way. Like it or not, whenever you play in a party your performance and contribution are considered relative to the others in the quest. If I had character that did nothing of use, (did not cast spells, did not fight, did not heal, and only say collected collectibles from broken boxes) I am sure the rest of the party in the quest would boot me as soon as they could. Well if a character is able to perform the functions of multiple classses as well as those classes at the same time they render those other characters about as useful as the mushroom picker. The player of a rich character who can pop off spells endlessly can end up make other casters without deep pockets feel like useless tools. If the bard goes around raising everyone, and healing them up before the cleric gets to them, soon the cleric says why bother. If the same bard (using bard in this case for the prototypical high UMD role) can drop CK and PK and FoW all over the place, then use their Bard skills to fascinate the mobs in place, the other arcane casters could say why bother... What is is that allows the bard to do this. Some inate deep pockets or reservoir of skill. Nope. Some class granted access to uber scrolls. Nope. Really what enables this is the unlimited supply of scrolls at the vendors.


Limit the source, and the problem becomes more constrained. A couple of tweaks would make sense. Set up a few new scroll vendors (or have some barkeeper cartel )that will funnel all scrolls to a seller in House ABC. That way all scroll drops that are not kept, but are sold off will be available in the game. At least for a limited time. Much like all the weapons and armor sold to the brokers are available for a limited time.

[Chorus]

The game won't stop changing. But players refuse to change. That's the real problem. The person that wants to make a 100% successful toon will never accept anything less.


The problem is TURBINE keeps changing the rules and we build our toons based on exsisting rules. Get a clue!! What if turbine says....Tanks are to over powered and you all have to run around wearing leaves and beat your enemies down with branches. You expect us to just accept that and change to those rules.

[Chorus]

As Dane indicated I guess I have a very different view than some on what breaks a character. Going from 100% success to 80% success does not break a character in my mind.

Make a ONE ARMED Fighter and tell me your not gimped !!! LOL What a joke

Oh wait better yet make a Bard with the BEST gear on the server(which I am) and yet I still make a fail on my UMD checks for most my heal scrolls and now I can't use any Area effect scrolls. Um. yeah not quite 0% but for sure gimped!!

[Dane_McArdy]

Quillion and Dane,
Respectfully, I have to ask - How does giving a free respec after major game changes hurt anyone? So what if someone wants to go in a completely different direction with a character. How does this hurt DDO, Turbine or players in general?
I can give you some good reasons how this can be a good thing for everyone.
1) It builds goodwill towards Turbine in general and upcoming rules changes in particular.
2) It allows people to enjoy the characters.
3) It keeps players from suffering DDO burnout because they "Had to run Waterworks for the 50 billionth time."

A one time respec doesn't seem to hurt. But one time, would never be one time. In EQ2, they had special abilities for each class as you leveled up. People would pick, and then realize that they didn't like what they picked.

The same reasons given here were given there. I'm new, the discription was wrong, lag made be choose bad.

SOE finally gave in, and let everyone respec all there special abilities. And then came the, we need another one. For all the same reasons and more. And finally SOE let there be another respec.

And then people wanted it again. Even though SOE said that after the second one, there would never be another one, so don't ask. And people got mad because they weren't given a third try.

Once it's done once, people will want it to be a regular feature of the game. If that happens, then stability of the game goes down, because people will respec to whatever class is precieved to be the flavor of the moment. Good play involves building a social structure of players that become in game friends. After all, if pugging was so great, why do so many people complain about it and refuse to do it? So playing with the same people regularly gives the best game experience.

A large part of that goes out the window when people can just change their character on a whim.

But it would just be once people say! People need to fix thier mistakes! What about people that wheren't around when that one time happened? They aren't given a chance to fix their mistakes without losing anything. So agian, it would never ever be just once. Someone will always find a reason why it should be again.

Many of the people that want a total or mostly total respec seem to have these high level toons that are broken with tomes, and gear and 2000+ favor. How in heck did you get that high with such a broken toon and managed to get all that stuff? Oh cause your toon isn't broken. Or least it wasn't broken up to that point. I really think that if you get to level 14, do all that, and achieve that much loot, you would have learned long ago that the toon was broken.

So far the worst changes in the game have been to reduce some enhancements in the amount of power, but at the same time the majority of players seemed to improve with the changes.

If you had maxed out certain abilities and skills as much as possible, before the change to enchancements, and lost some points, no amount of respecing will get those points back, if you had it maxed before. Unless you gimped yourself on purpose to do so. People who do that will always do that, knowing full well the game changes. And that isn't a good reason to add a total respec.

As for players that followed the rules, not knowing DnD paper rules. Like, well evasion, which is the only time this has happened. Dave said they weren't going to fix evasion working for med and heavy armor any time soon. But with monks coming, and a new producer, they realized they had to.

That stinks. Some players took two levels of rogues just for that ability. Well, their character still functions. They will either need to switch to light armor to keep the evasion, or accept that they have to levels of rogue. It would be nice if Turbine allowed players to delete their rogue levels, that did this, since it was their choice to let it stand, and it said in the compendium that it works with those armors. For a limited time. But all they could was delete the rogue levels, providing those levels were higher then any other class. Let it happen two weeks before the evasion change goes live. After that, you are stuck with them, because evasion won't work with those armor anymore.

But that seems silly, and would lead to players wanting to undo their choices that they feel don't work out.

And so again, it comes down to perception. A person might percieve their build doesn't work, that doesn't mean it doesn't. And how does Turbine judge who is right and who is wrong?

[Dane_McArdy]

Make a ONE ARMED Fighter and tell me your not gimped !!! LOL What a joke

Considering you can't make a one armed fighter, we don't have to worry about someone with one arm do we?

[Dane_McArdy]

The problem is TURBINE keeps changing the rules and we build our toons based on exsisting rules. Get a clue!! What if turbine says....Tanks are to over powered and you all have to run around wearing leaves and beat your enemies down with branches. You expect us to just accept that and change to those rules.

Perhaps the clue you need is that none of the changes so dramaticaly changed the game to make it unplayable.

Since you make wild examples, what's the point in discussing this? But if the day Turbine does just as you say, makes fighters wear leaves and beat the enemy with sticks, I will pay for you play for two whole years.

But they have to make it just as you described.

[Drider]

I don't get it. If we got a respec on all of our characters there would be people wanting it again with the next update. Seems kind of like chasing your tail.



This is absolutely correct. Once you start giving away respecs, it's like opening Pandora's Box. Every time there is a little change there will be people asking for another, and another, and another.

Take swg for example, when they changed the game they gave away 10 respecs to each character. Even with that many, people kept asking for more and more with each update. I think I had like 10-15 respecs for each of my characters over there, it was crazy.

[Zenako]

Not sure how the one armed fighter got into this....:confused:

But with respect to Fighters and armor. You can ONLY buy simple +1 armor from normal sellers. The only better armor available are the items that drop from the game and that are sold to vendors or the auction house. There is no shop of Mithril Full Plate on demand. Presently you can pretty much buy any scroll you want in whatever quantity you want.

The changes to scroll drops or availablity do not in themselves make any changes to how you can play the game. Just the ease of enabling certain playstyles. The changes to spells themselves (cooldowns and durations) will, it seems not be as big a ddooooooom as some have reacted. I am pretty darn positive that the developers do not start out Monday morning trying to think up ways to make everyone angry. They are looking to address issues that they have seen in the nature of how the game is developing and the play is happening.

[Dane_McArdy]

This is absolutely correct. Once you start giving away respecs, it's like opening Pandora's Box. Every time there is a little change there will be people asking for another, and another, and another.

Take swg for example, when they changed the game they gave away 10 respecs to each character. Even with that many, people kept asking for more and more with each update. I think I had like 10-15 respecs for each of my characters over there, it was crazy.

And of course, it was done so people would be happy with their characters, but it never was enough.

Many players want what they consider the perfect character. And that's not going to happen. However no game company can change the players perception on what is a perfect character, so their best course is to hold steady. And probably never comment on it.

[Marabias]

The same thing. They give every account a once a year one character one respec, and it won't be enough.

people will say, I need it twice a year, three times, whenever I want.

I could say the same things about shards, or new races or new classes or dragon marks or any other new feature in the game. Why give anything at all if someone will just ask for more.



The game won't stop changing. But players refuse to change. That's the real problem. The person that wants to make a 100% successful toon will never accept anything less.
See, it’s not that black and white. People are not refusing to change. People are getting tired of changing. Anyone who is still playing at this point has had to make some changes. At times it feels like we are still in beta. It’s not about the 100% successful toon. It's about the rules changed and people would have done things different with the new rules. People just want to enjoy there character again. Just because you enjoy playing an average character or playable character does not mean everyone does. Some people want to excel in the game. Some of us are average enough in real life :p

[Chorus]

Perhaps the clue you need is that none of the changes so dramaticaly changed the game to make it unplayable.


Umm.. Duh!!! Of course the game is still playable it's our characters that aren't. You really should get a clue are you sure your posting on the right forum?

[Dane_McArdy]

I could say the same things about shards, or new races or new classes or dragon marks or any other new feature in the game. Why give anything at all if someone will just ask for more.


See, it’s not that black and white. People are not refusing to change. People are getting tired of changing. Anyone who is still playing at this point has had to make some changes. At times it feels like we are still in beta. It’s not about the 100% successful toon. It's about the rules changed and people would have done things different with the new rules. People just want to enjoy there character again. Just because you enjoy playing an average character or playable character does not mean everyone does. Some people want to excel in the game. Some of us are average enough in real life :p

My character is far from average. In fact, my character rocks, and often saves the day.

Oh, and I'm far from average in real life. I'm sorry you have an average opinion about yourself. You should think of yourself as wonderful.

None of the rules have changed so dramatically to completely change the game or even some aspects of the game.

When they lowered the amount of points you can get for skills like disable device, they also lowered traps DCs.

So how was this changing the rules?

Again, the one rule change I've really seen is the evasion one, which, frankly was wrong, and the person that made that choice was wrong, but they are gone now, aren't they?

[Megaton_Samurai]

The same thing. They give every account a once a year one character one respec, and it won't be enough.

people will say, I need it twice a year, three times, whenever I want.

The game won't stop changing. But players refuse to change. That's the real problem. The person that wants to make a 100% successful toon will never accept anything less.

Nice no compromising attitude.

Why ever add anything or make changes at all? People will just want more. Turbine keeps changing things over and over and people just complain. Why did they even start?

[Dane_McArdy]

Nice no compromising attitude.

Why ever add anything or make changes at all? People will just want more. Turbine keeps changing things over and over and people just complain. Why did they even start?

So you take a stance against one aspect, and apply it to everything.

That's not at all what I'm saying. So please don't put words in my mouth.

Ok, fine. If you give people one respec, they will ask for more, so in this case, it's not good for the game.

If you give people more content, they will ask for more, but that's ok, because in this case, that is good for the game.

I guess you really don't have any rebuttal to all my other points about respecing, because you came back with this odd bit of logic.

[lostinjapan]

I've played games that allowed for a partial or full one-time respec based on major changes to the game and how various systems affected certain character builds. Yes there were a few players who demanded repeat performances of this generous act by the GMs, but they were few and were told 'No'.

The DMs & devs of Turbine tell the players "No" all the time (either in different words or in a lack of words). I don't see how them saying "No" to a few whiners after one needed respec would be such a major problem. NOTE: I said needed because not everyone has the time to level a character in a week or two....for some who only get to play a few hours a week, it can be months if not years to get one character to capped.

Aside from my past experiences with OTHER games and gaming companies....

While I agree with your post OP and applaud your efforts...I sincerely doubt the devs will even read this thread much less respond to it (they don't seem to be too crazy about 'petitions'). :confused:

[Megaton_Samurai]

So you take a stance against one aspect, and apply it to everything.

That's not at all what I'm saying. So please don't put words in my mouth.

Ok, fine. If you give people one respec, they will ask for more, so in this case, it's not good for the game.

If you give people more content, they will ask for more, but that's ok, because in this case, that is good for the game.

I guess you really don't have any rebuttal to all my other points about respecing, because you came back with this odd bit of logic.

I didn't mean to twist your words, so I'll try again.

You've been arguing that Turbine shouldn't give out a respec because if they do, people will expect more respecs. I, personally, think that is a terrible reason which has absolutely no impact as to whether or not they are warranted.

I've been arguing that they should make a yearly in-game holiday (or not, figured they could make it fun) that corresponds with a yearly respec. I don't think the community would react negatively and ask for more if this were implemented. You do, and that's fine, we have no way of knowing one way or the other.

Do you have any reason respecs shouldn't be allowed from strictly a gameplay standpoint?

[Marabias]

My character is far from average. In fact, my character rocks, and often saves the day.

Oh, and I'm far from average in real life. I'm sorry you have an average opinion about yourself. You should think of yourself as wonderful.

None of the rules have changed so dramatically to completely change the game or even some aspects of the game.

When they lowered the amount of points you can get for skills like disable device, they also lowered traps DCs.

So how was this changing the rules?

Again, the one rule change I've really seen is the evasion one, which, frankly was wrong, and the person that made that choice was wrong, but they are gone now, aren't they?

Your character rocking is your opinion. That's how you feel about your character. If I told you your character sucked would you believe me? Now if someone’s opinion of there character is that they suck and could rebuild them better that’s there opinion. Does it surprise you that you can't change there mind? Why deny them the ability to make a change.

A large number of changes have taken place that messed up builds or made it possible to make better builds. Stuff like drow, 32 point, lose of HV, evasion, the huge over haul of the enhancement system. Its how people feel about there characters and it’s not going to change. Personally I am tired of watching a few people leave every major update and I feel a re-spec would bring new life to the game in general. The free week for inactive accounts brought a bunch of old friends back, only one of them stayed after seeing what the enhancements had done to there character.

[Maldini]

No, not needed.

I'm asking that all petition threads be autodeleted.


Yes, actually it is needed. I request that all your threads be deleted. But I guess we can't all get what we want.

[Dane_McArdy]

Your character rocking is your opinion. That's how you feel about your character. If I told you your character sucked would you believe me? Now if someone’s opinion of there character is that they suck and could rebuild them better that’s there opinion. Does it surprise you that you can't change there mind? Why deny them the ability to make a change.

A large number of changes have taken place that messed up builds or made it possible to make better builds. Stuff like drow, 32 point, lose of HV, evasion, the huge over haul of the enhancement system. Its how people feel about there characters and it’s not going to change. Personally I am tired of watching a few people leave every major update and I feel a re-spec would bring new life to the game in general. The free week for inactive accounts brought a bunch of old friends back, only one of them stayed after seeing what the enhancements had done to there character.

Hey, your the one that called my character average and said that i liked playing an average character.

ok, how do drow result in needing a respec? You unlock the ability to make a drow through favor. How does that mean you need to respec another character? Same for 32 point spec.

HV went down. So did alot of other enhancements. if your abiliies were maxed because of the old enhancements, your are still maxed, it's just that the max isn't as high as it used to be. Of course, they explained why they are going with this.

The current enhancement system would have lead to a very large imbalance come level 20. Befor the revamp, they ahd already said that fighters probably wouldn't get increases to their current enhancements, because the ability to get +10 from them at level 10 was overpowering as it was.

So that meant some classes would increase, or no classes, since it wouldn't be fair or fun to know that come level ten you wouldn't get more or better enhancements while other classes did. Or if they did keep increasing the enhancements, mobs would have to keep going up as well.

Some mobs on elite couldn't be approached by any class save fighters with the highest AC, without getting clobbered, and that shouldn't be.

So by changing the system, they wouldn't have to keep over inflating the mobs, and they cou;d have a system that is balanced from 1-20. Over all, I would say that outside of HV, and some people losing about 40-70 spell points (I gained spell points), everything in the revamp ended up being seen as good. And there is only more to come to it.

Again, evasion was wrong. Saying they were going to leave it was wrong. And they have said that. And as for me not having any compromize, i did say I thought it would be fair if they let people that took two levels of rogue to dump those levels. They would have to re-earn them mind you. And I've said that skills might have some reason to be respeced.

So again, I've yet to see all these changes to the rules that have changed the game, save evasion, which was wrong.

The changes to the game really haven't made the game or a large majority of characters unplayable.

[Elcan]

First off a Full respec to me is warented.

If your given rules and guidline to go off of. Then they change because people dont like the spell, or its not working they way its ment.
and i9t changes that characters abilities to function properly then why not.

For those that say NO give a reason not a lame Auto Delete.

This thread is more about Turbine fixxing there bugs with there CUSTOMERS not with just the game.

I think Turbine has improved, yet id like to see them fixx this issue not kick it under the desk. It wont go away.

[QuantumFX]

A one time respec doesn't seem to hurt. But one time, would never be one time. In EQ2, they had special abilities for each class as you leveled up. People would pick, and then realize that they didn't like what they picked.

The same reasons given here were given there. I'm new, the discription was wrong, lag made be choose bad.

SOE finally gave in, and let everyone respec all there special abilities. And then came the, we need another one. For all the same reasons and more. And finally SOE let there be another respec.

And then people wanted it again. Even though SOE said that after the second one, there would never be another one, so don't ask. And people got mad because they weren't given a third try.

Once it's done once, people will want it to be a regular feature of the game. If that happens, then stability of the game goes down, because people will respec to whatever class is precieved to be the flavor of the moment. Good play involves building a social structure of players that become in game friends. After all, if pugging was so great, why do so many people complain about it and refuse to do it? So playing with the same people regularly gives the best game experience.

A large part of that goes out the window when people can just change their character on a whim.

But it would just be once people say! People need to fix thier mistakes! What about people that wheren't around when that one time happened? They aren't given a chance to fix their mistakes without losing anything. So agian, it would never ever be just once. Someone will always find a reason why it should be again.

Many of the people that want a total or mostly total respec seem to have these high level toons that are broken with tomes, and gear and 2000+ favor. How in heck did you get that high with such a broken toon and managed to get all that stuff? Oh cause your toon isn't broken. Or least it wasn't broken up to that point. I really think that if you get to level 14, do all that, and achieve that much loot, you would have learned long ago that the toon was broken.

So far the worst changes in the game have been to reduce some enhancements in the amount of power, but at the same time the majority of players seemed to improve with the changes.

If you had maxed out certain abilities and skills as much as possible, before the change to enchancements, and lost some points, no amount of respecing will get those points back, if you had it maxed before. Unless you gimped yourself on purpose to do so. People who do that will always do that, knowing full well the game changes. And that isn't a good reason to add a total respec.

As for players that followed the rules, not knowing DnD paper rules. Like, well evasion, which is the only time this has happened. Dave said they weren't going to fix evasion working for med and heavy armor any time soon. But with monks coming, and a new producer, they realized they had to.

That stinks. Some players took two levels of rogues just for that ability. Well, their character still functions. They will either need to switch to light armor to keep the evasion, or accept that they have to levels of rogue. It would be nice if Turbine allowed players to delete their rogue levels, that did this, since it was their choice to let it stand, and it said in the compendium that it works with those armors. For a limited time. But all they could was delete the rogue levels, providing those levels were higher then any other class. Let it happen two weeks before the evasion change goes live. After that, you are stuck with them, because evasion won't work with those armor anymore.

But that seems silly, and would lead to players wanting to undo their choices that they feel don't work out.

And so again, it comes down to perception. A person might percieve their build doesn't work, that doesn't mean it doesn't. And how does Turbine judge who is right and who is wrong?

Turbine doesn't need to judge this they just need to provide an in place respec system. As for all your opinions stated above they are just that opinions. When I have more time I'll properly break them down but in the short term Rhetoric, Anecdotal evidence and Slippery slope arguments are not reasons to deny the inclusion of a system that could help this game in the long run. You also seem to need to learn the root of your problem - Egotism.

[Tearrin]

What if they implemented a system like the Dragonshards? You find an item in a chest, or you do a specific quest, or something of the like. Then you pay out some cash, and you get your respec.

They could simply create a few quests that span the levels, and assign them to Fred the Mindflayer. If you then feel that you are not happy with your character for whatever reason, you can get some friends together go talk to Fred the Mindflayer. He'll assign you the appropriate quest based on your level. You do the quest just like any other quest. When you go talk to Fred after completion you get the choice of a respec to your character, or randomly generated loot like other quests.

Doing it this way will keep the "respec" item off the AH and prevent it from being purchasable in stupid crazy high amounts. It will allow for anyone that wants a respec to go earn it, and those that don't to get loot just the same. It provides a constant way for people to deal with the ever changing world that is DDO, without having to re-roll when a major change make it so that you no longer have fun with the way you originally built your character.

I think that it would be a good way to implement respecs into this game.

[Maldini]

Here's the reason why a full respec is warranted:

1) A bunch of us had characters since launch or head-start. Back then we didn't know the usefulness or lack-of usefulness of certain skills. Now that much more knowledge is known about the game, a skill respec would be warranted.

2) Stat Points: some of us may have put all our points into charisma to boost up saves or whatnot. Now, later in the game we realize that are saves are high enough if not extrememly high and we could back off on the charisma. Instead we would rather put points into Dex or Strength. The current respecification system doesn't allow you to do that.


The same people that are whining and arguing against this are the same people that argued against the current respec implementation. Guess what? That made it into the game, and probably this will to. So get used to it and stop complaining that we should live with our choices.

When you change the game dynamics, you need to allow things like full respecs. It's only natural and fair. They have feat and enhancement respecs. Therefore, there's NO POINT is preventing us from respeccing our skills and stat distributions.

They shouldn't allow us to reroll our intial stat distributions because that's what the character was created with, but everything that happens after creation should be allowed to change.

[Elcan]

Please refiane from the use of the word "Nerf" when it comes to evaision.
Its not been "Nerfed", Its been applied properly wich they have been talking about doing so in months.

I agree with the respect like stated before. Especially the AOE scrolls. I thinks its stupid and not thought out at all. Alot of players spent alot of time getting there UMD up to use the scrolls.

People complain it gives infinite Mana to a scroll user and i disagree.
Scrolls are in PNP and are found or bought.
There quanity and type are DEPENDENT upon the citys or towns POPULATION. and are priced accordingly to that. Arms and equipment guide.

Removing Scrolls from Vendors Why? then Why not remove Mem pots as well?
lets get rid of it all then.

Scroll cost can break any castor class. removing them from general Vendors i think are a reall bad idea.

[Dane_McArdy]

Here's the reason why a full respec is warranted:

1) A bunch of us had characters since launch or head-start. Back then we didn't know the usefulness or lack-of usefulness of certain skills. Now that much more knowledge is known about the game, a skill respec would be warranted.

2) Stat Points: some of us may have put all our points into charisma to boost up saves or whatnot. Now, later in the game we realize that are saves are high enough if not extrememly high and we could back off on the charisma. Instead we would rather put points into Dex or Strength. The current respecification system doesn't allow you to do that.


1. Respecing skill, yes that is viable. While skills haven't chamged much, with things like swim becoming a valuable skill for, oh say the crucible, or back when they made balance more useful.

2. The way you present it, it wasn't a mistake. You wanted a high Charisma, now you think a different stat would be better. The abilities and the bonus' haven't changed, just what you want have changed.

It just doesn't work that way. Characters are meant to be good in some areas, weaker in others. Sure, a mage can have a high strength, but it comes at the cost of something else.

Why do you think building characters are done the way they are? The higher you make one ability, one other suffers.

If they had meant for all abilities to get up there, every ability would start at the same score. You have to choose how you will build your character's ability, 18 intelligence means you stink somewhere else. Or you could go average across the board.

So I don't see any reason to beable to respec the abilities, simply because, well you want to.

[Dane_McArdy]

Please refiane from the use of the word "Nerf" when it comes to evaision.
Its not been "Nerfed", Its been applied properly wich they have been talking about doing so in months.

I agree with the respect like stated before. Especially the AOE scrolls. I thinks its stupid and not thought out at all. Alot of players spent alot of time getting there UMD up to use the scrolls.

People complain it gives infinite Mana to a scroll user and i disagree.
Scrolls are in PNP and are found or bought.
There quanity and type are DEPENDENT upon the citys or towns POPULATION. and are priced accordingly to that. Arms and equipment guide.

Removing Scrolls from Vendors Why? then Why not remove Mem pots as well?
lets get rid of it all then.

Scroll cost can break any castor class. removing them from general Vendors i think are a reall bad idea.


How the scrolls are aquired doesn't change the ability to use them.

The quanity of scrolls you can buy being dependent on city or town is not the same as infinite supply.

Mem pots can't be bought from vendors, so how is that the same as buying scrolls from vendors?

I could by a thousand CK scrolls and not put a serious dent in my cash.

[Maldini]

1. Respecing skill, yes that is viable. While skills haven't chamged much, with things like swim becoming a valuable skill for, oh say the crucible, or back when they made balance more useful.

2. The way you present it, it wasn't a mistake. You wanted a high Charisma, now you think a different stat would be better. The abilities and the bonus' haven't changed, just what you want have changed.

It just doesn't work that way. Characters are meant to be good in some areas, weaker in others. Sure, a mage can have a high strength, but it comes at the cost of something else.

Why do you think building characters are done the way they are? The higher you make one ability, one other suffers.

If they had meant for all abilities to get up there, every ability would start at the same score. You have to choose how you will build your character's ability, 18 intelligence means you stink somewhere else. Or you could go average across the board.

So I don't see any reason to beable to respec the abilities, simply because, well you want to.

Of course it's a quid pro quo. You're cutting back on Charisma - in this example - for an increase to strength. This said character wouldn't be superb in all areas, he'd be average in them. It doesn't matter if they let us respec abilities or not, it's not going to change the inherent balance that is the D&D character design system.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say in the last few paragraphs because it's way off base with what I was getting at. You're not upsetting the scale, you're rebalancing it. There is no way that redistributing post-creation stat points would do anything other than make the player-base happy.

Therefore, it only makes sense to allow people to respec characters fully. It's commonplace in MMORPGs because its what people want. Just because you have a hard-on against it, doesn't mean that it's not a just and fair thing to do.

[Dane_McArdy]

Of course it's a quid pro quo. You're cutting back on Charisma - in this example - for an increase to strength. This said character wouldn't be superb in all areas, he'd be average in them. It doesn't matter if they let us respec abilities or not, it's not going to change the inherent balance that is the D&D character design system.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say in the last few paragraphs because it's way off base with what I was getting at. You're not upsetting the scale, you're rebalancing it. There is no way that redistributing post-creation stat points would do anything other than make the player-base happy.

Therefore, it only makes sense to allow people to respec characters fully. It's commonplace in MMORPGs because its what people want. Just because you have a hard-on against it, doesn't mean that it's not a just and fair thing to do.

Lovely language.

First of all, I'm all for respecs for areas of the game that grow and change, like feats, like enhancements, and spells. Even skills, since some skills that had no practical use, are now being tapped for adventures.

But in you ability example, it still comes down to, you simply decided you want to reallocate your abilities. At one time a high charisma was what you needed, and now you don't.

And no it's not commonplace in MMOs to totally respec your character.

[Marabias]

Hey, your the one that called my character average and said that i liked playing an average character.

ok, how do drow result in needing a respec? You unlock the ability to make a drow through favor. How does that mean you need to respec another character? Same for 32 point spec.

HV went down. So did alot of other enhancements. if your abiliies were maxed because of the old enhancements, your are still maxed, it's just that the max isn't as high as it used to be. Of course, they explained why they are going with this.


I will explain why drow and HV together are one of many reasons to warent a re-spec. I play a rogue, 28 point before drow were around human rogue. When drow were introduced I was still low level and thought about rerolling as a drow. There was one reason and one reason only I did not. HV. HV was not bumped down, if you play a human rogue it was taken away. My rogue right now has tons of raid loot, 4 +2 tomes in him and yet I can make a fresh drow rogue and have the same or in most cases better skills and stats. Higher + to hit and just plain better in every way. I can replace a year of work with in just one month... yes that ticks me off.

At any rate I didn't say you played an avarage character, I said if you like to thats fine. You like your above avarage character and thats fine for you too. But just because your happy with what you have doesn't mean everyone else should be.

[Zenako]

So for everyone who wants a "full respec", why draw the line at just skills? Why not include the options to change gender, to change class and to change race as well. Changes to the game would have made (except for gender and the toons appearance choices which really is cosmetic only) some of your first choices again not optimal for an "excellent" character.

So what is the point of having a character if all it is to you is a collection of stats and has no history or existence within the game. I see one side of the arguement coming from what I percieve to be players who create characters and develop them within the game world. Those players tend to be less concerned about respecs or things like that. I see the other side being players who are playing an optimization game where the goal is to create a maximized toon that can do certain things without peer, regardless of how skewed the rest of that character might be. Those players who are more focused on extracting every last ounce of gain from each and every design choice they make get seriously bent if some parameter is modified.

I have the feeling that many of the players in this game who favor the first option are probably here because of that and do not care all that much about these changes. Most will not be all that affected, or if they are, perhaps only in a positive way. I also suspect that a good number of those players do not play other MMO's but have played many of the other D&D games before. You could not change the stats on your character in Baldurs Gate (and until expansions, the "rules of the world" did not really change either.

Oh well...time for other things...

[Ciel]

I haven't had an issue with any of the changes presented. I actualy like alot of the stuff they've done. I've seen alot of people who builds that go beyond the parameters of the games (IE: umd scroll builds on a rouge >_>, or a bard who can just pack on the scrolls and can work basicly like a sorc or a wiz, with a little lower DC's on their spells). I built my paladin as a front line healer, and guess what... he's still a front line healer, cept now he can tank alot better. Try to make a build where your charecter does what the intro video tells you to do, and you'll be fine.

[Kalibak]

It's really s a simple concept, I did X because of Y. Turbine radically altered Y, why am I stuck with X then? MMORPG's change, and change is good, but change is also a 2 way street.

If we go back to PNP D&D (rembember that? dice, pencils, stale soda and pizza?), there is an ENTIRE CHAPTER in PHB II dedicated to retraining of PC's. WOTC (remember them? The rules creators for this system? the end all-be all D&D authorites?) balanced this by monetary cost and time to retrain. You could also only retrain when you leveled, so no massivley repeated re-training.

This retraining went as far as feats, skill points, alignment, spells, class features, and even class levels. We institute a baby version of this with Fred, the Mind Flayer. So the precedent for re-training is already set, by Turbine itself. we also allow sorcerors to retrain their spells, which comes directly from that chapter. Again, a re-train precedent already set by Turbine.

To balance this, make time limitaitons (only one re-train per so many days), monetary and item costs, and make the character unavailable for a time (hours or days based on amount of re-training done).

By not linking this to need (arbitrary), or game update time frames (not all impacts are isntantly obvious, som die rolls I don't get to see), everyone can be happy. No "one-time use/limited use/need only" to make the respecs seem any different than what it represents in RL (going back to college, anyone?)

This will eliminate the repeated requests for respecs I'm sure Turbine spends many, many man-hours ($$$) declining.

I remebmer back to days of DAOC and WOW (foul on me, mentioning another MMORPG here!), where PC's got a re-sepc EVERY TIME something in the balance changed, and could earn respecs in between (dragon orbs... sounds a lot like dragon shards?).

Now that being said, respecs shouldn't be easy to get either. Want to respec? Earn it! Sacrifice for it (favor, xp losses?). Do quests for your trainers (kill 100 orcs with backstabs?). Etc, etc.

Quit arguing over the mechanics of making it happen, that's for the programmers to wrestle with, and has no bearing on why or why not they should attempt it.

This is a pettition, not a vote. If you don't want/need a re-spec, great! That makes it easy for you. No rebuilding, no re-training, no loss of cash/items/time on your part. Other than that, your words mean nothing here.

[Ciel]

I just simply get very anoyed when people complain and talk about other people (IE: the dev's), talking about how they dont' do enough, and how they suck and what not... I don't know if yall ever gmed a game before, or have any experience in game design... but it's hard to please everyone. You do your best, and corect the problems that you see. They see wiz and sorc's being able to do entire quests without using any mana... what do they do? they remove their ability to do that. Yes it gimps other people too, but it's for the greater good. Don't complain about your umd build being nerfed, tough luck, your taking one for the team. If you don't like it fine, but don't blame someone els for that problem. The devs do what they can, don't go complaining about how your a paying customer and your not getting your money's worth. Their trying the best they can. Whining about it doesn't help in the least bit.

[Velexia]

/signed ...except I already deleted and rerolled =(

[Kevr0123]

I love it kalibak.

i have been here since beta (notice the little dragon eyeball for my avatar) and time and time again changes are made.. I started off with a halfling rogue and after some experience i found balance not to be useful with my high dex so i placed my skill points into umd.. now trip becomes a nightmare so i reroll a human rogue and put points into balance and umd hoping that human versatility will keep all my skills.. now human versatility sucks.. two characters lose what made them better than other rogue but it's ok because drow are 80x's better than anything i could do.. so the precious time i've placed into the game are wasted.. just give me a respec.. i've made bards, paladin/rogues, and rogues that lose their ubberness.. it really is a shame.. i just have one main now because i know sooner or later he's going to suck like all the other guys i've made so i am forced to reroll in order to keep up with the ELITES.. then i have to go through getting all the dragon/demon queen/and titan gear i've received... including several +2 tomes which don't even match up to the brute starting stats that the drow have....

[Chorus]

/signed!!!!!

[Kevr0123]

[QUOTE=Chorus;1135201]i kick puppiesQUOTE]

only when i'm mad

[Chorus]

I think I know why people like Dane McArdy and CIEL are still against respec. They are still stuck in Water works.

On the other hand I've had 2 of my 3 lvl 14's Gimped in some form or another. It's funny how all the old school players understand the full effect becuase the rules from day1 to the rules now are as different as night and day. So the toon you spent sooo much time building aren't worth a penny now other then for buying those 10'000 Firewall scrolls your saving.


GIVE US RESPEC TURBINE!!!! You want to change the rules, let us change are Characters it's that simple!!!

[lostinjapan]

I don't know if yall ever gmed a game before, or have any experience in game design... but it's hard to please everyone.

Yes I have...actually I still am a GM - a senior developer and a profession guru for another online game (don't like to play what I code...too many snoopy players :eek:).

Yes, it is hard to please everyone, however, it is NOT an issue to provide a one time respec based on a major change like several of the ones we have had recently (enhancement changes/evasion changes/etc.). EVERY (I think about 4 total since the game's initial creation about 5 years ago) time the game I code for has had a major change (to how exp is calculated, to how spells work, and a few other reasons as well that proved detrimental to a large number of builds) we provided a respec. Some of those respecs were partial (because it only affected skills) and some were full.

That being said, Turbine will run their game how they see fit. It is up to each individual player to decide whether they can live with it or not.

I can live with it if they choose not to give us respecs, but I'd definitely prefer if they did choose to offer this and help out everyone, including those casual players who have been greatly affected.

[Riggs]

If Turbine keeps making sweeping changes to the game then what choice do we have? Suck it up and play anyways? Start a new toon all over again? Or just quit out of frustration?

A re-spec hurts no one at all. Not one person. Unless you are hurt by watching other people enjoy there characters again. Or hurt by watching people come back to the game again.

Ditto that.

The ONLY reason to not allow a respec...is to force people to run old content over again, and over, and over. When the server populations keep declining, it keeps older players playing low level quests instead of staying on their high level characters.

The game has not just changed many times. Feats, skills, enhancements...things that were powerful before are now not, things that had no use before are now needed to survive.

For example, why put points into balance when for the first 6 months the balance skill had ZERO effect on any game action, then suddenly...hey you need balance or once tripped you never get up again - dragonshards, the ONE free one we got doesnt respec skills just an fyi. UMD, evasion, trip, balance, metamagic feats, many skills, traps spot/search/disable dc, action boosts, and..racial abilities - many things are not just "a little harder than before", they are changes that completely modify how something worked from one patch to another. Most of the changes have been good, but that doesnt change the fact that people built characters under one set of rules, played those rules for soem time, then had those rules changed.

Not to mention the old sore spot - "hey I got 1750 favor! yay I get to...reroll if I want to benefit from it..."

Allowing people from beta or pre-order days, or even anyone who has had an account from the opening month say - to get ONE free respec wont smash the game balance to pieces. It wont turn every single player in the game into power mad powergamers. What it WOULD be is a gesture to smooth over the many, many spots of aggrivation that has been caused by monthly changes that very often make character concepts outdated, where the only other option is to reroll, or play a gimped character for the rest of your days.

Complaining about what people would whine about if they got ONE respect....just shows contempt for everyone else, and also a petty desire to see other people NOT get a chance to rebuild a character that totally does not work they way it did when it was created. Pawning off a change like "your humans just lost -5 to all skills, but hey who needs high skills anyway, its ok for YOU to fail 25% more, because I dont care about how often you succeed anyway"
Sure some people will complain no matter what. But most are not the petty whiners being portrayed above in such a condescending manner.

...but who cares? Who appointed soandso as guardians of the board? "Oh gotta stop any changes so no one whines". The vast majority of people are not big complainers, but get very ticked off when a character they have played for 6 months drastically changes suddenly. Not wanting a respec because a few people will want more than one.....yes punish the reasonable majority, who is mostly silent, just to spite the vocal minority. Yeah thats a real 'solution'. You know what happens to the people who are NOT the big complainers, but get annoyed anyway? They quietly...leave. *looks at server populations now compared to 1 year ago*

Getting a character to high level, getting favor, bound items, takes a significant investment of time and effort. It would be a great goodwill gesture to allow a one time respec for characters, given just how many changes have been made.

Or please, keep bashing the general population is such a grand manner. Just make sure you check off the box to double your fees, since half as many people will be playing. Who needs other people to enjoy the game anyway? (Oh wait....Turbines bank does, and their payroll department...and ...other players)

just a quick last point, since it seems to escape some people. DDO is a game, and entertainment game. If the game stops being entertaining, people stop playing. It is not a job, a required course for school, or some obligation you have to meet. People play for fun. People PAY for fun. People dont watch movies that are annoying, boring, or treats them with distain for their time, or play games for very long that do the same. PvP is an IRRELEVANT part of this game, so allowing people to respec doesnt 'hurt' anyone elses game. So why are some people complaining so loud?

[Riggs]

I will explain why drow and HV together are one of many reasons to warent a re-spec. I play a rogue, 28 point before drow were around human rogue. When drow were introduced I was still low level and thought about rerolling as a drow. There was one reason and one reason only I did not. HV. HV was not bumped down, if you play a human rogue it was taken away. My rogue right now has tons of raid loot, 4 +2 tomes in him and yet I can make a fresh drow rogue and have the same or in most cases better skills and stats. Higher + to hit and just plain better in every way. I can replace a year of work with in just one month... yes that ticks me off.

At any rate I didn't say you played an avarage character, I said if you like to thats fine. You like your above avarage character and thats fine for you too. But just because your happy with what you have doesn't mean everyone else should be.

Oh yeah, btw my human bard gets used for one thing now, selling stuff my other characters loot. First drow came, but hey I stayed wtih the human (HV), since it was a skills build, that had some melee. Losing 5 points of umd, after watching drow come along with higher charisma and all that, and now many scrolls will be not available...not that it matters since going from failing 10-20% of the time to failing 35-55% of the times means using scrolls is kind of pointless. All my skills got beat down, and of course, I dont melee much nayway since everything can hit an armor class 20 points higher than my bard most of the time anyway (didnt I read that monster to hit would go DOWN with the new lowered player ac changes?).

My bard used to be versatile, dish out damage, and be able to use scrolls for all kinds of effects, as well as having really good healing. Now all I have is a couple buffs, and maybe 2 buffs my wizard doesnt already have, and some healing. If I wanted to make a buffer and sit back, I would just make another cleric. Or play my wiz who has better spells, and lots of them. Maybe mod 5 will make my bard useful again, but right now - he is a LOT more boring to play than he was before. So I dont play him. the only reason he didnt get deleted as soon as I hit 1750 favor...I didnt want to grind a character up to high level JUST to have a high haggle to sell stuff. And right now if I delete him, I wont be remaking a bard. Maybe a respec would let me make him useful again - wait back to the point - how does that hurt YOUR characters again?

[Cowdenicus]

As I see it the only negative to allowing respecs is that people would not reroll characters.

That being said I have advocated for an xp coin (as a favor reward) that you can have equipped to give bonus xp to all your characters until 4 levels from cap.

I have advocated more bonus xp days (which I believe Turbine SHOULD do).

I have advocated for the nerfing of most classes and mobs so that there is still something intresting to do in the late game (think levels 18-20 here).

All to no avail. I have a hard time dealing with this sometimes because I do not see a focus or a plan for the game. I mean seriously there are mobs in the game where you need a +35 to hit. Is that not unreasonable in the mid levels (which is where we are at) and just how high will this inflation go?

This game is losing its focus.

To be honest I am for a respec and against it at the same time. If turbine put in an extra bonus xp weeked once a month or a bonus xp item like i suggested above, then I would vote no to a respec. Otherwise I would vote yes for a respec.

How would I do this respec??????

real easy, you get one shot at it (make it a favor reward nice thing for 2k favor) what it does is it takes you back to the character creation screen. And you start from scratch again. when you jump out of the character creation screen, you get your xp that you had (or you could make level up coins that are bound.) People could then choose all of their stat increases and skills and feats all over again.

This would also solve the issue of going back and getting the initial builds there 32 point build.

Just my opinion and I will probably get flamed for it, but these are my thoughts.

[Tearrin]

real easy, you get one shot at it (make it a favor reward nice thing for 2k favor) what it does is it takes you back to the character creation screen. And you start from scratch again. when you jump out of the character creation screen, you get your xp that you had (or you could make level up coins that are bound.) People could then choose all of their stat increases and skills and feats all over again.

This would also solve the issue of going back and getting the initial builds there 32 point build.

Sounds good, they just need to make sure to either a) give you back your tomes, or b) apply them when you leave the character creation screen.

[Drak]

my chars mostly were good befor mod 2, now they need to be redone to make up for all the mods done to the game. the fact that swimming now makes a difference, is a big one. but not the biggest

[Kevr0123]

I've spent so many hours on ddo time and time again only to find out on more than one occasion that one of my guys have been reduced to nothing more than a trader/haggle master.. I've spent so much time getting uber loot only to find that my build has been gimped and that if i re-roll another race out there, it would surpass the builds i have put so much time into over and over again.. I have disappeared for months on more than one occasion because i don't have the time and frustration to re-roll again and again trying to get the same randomly rare loot off the titan/demon queen/dragon. So many great players i have met since day one are no longer here because of all the gimping. Even when our guild was the first one to take the dragon down on our server, no one from the guild of 25 elite players log on other than 2 other players and myself.. People that just took down the titan a few months back on our server no longer play and truly I believe that just one respec would bring some of these players back and i definitely think it would have a positive effect in more than one way.

[Liminosse]

simple solution, if you know the rule of PnP DnD and DDO isnt quiet to par with it, like evision in heavy armor, dont build a heavy armor charcter to use it. Eventually it will probly get fixed. If you build a character reliying on scrolls, don't, unles you can make them yourself to waste on failed attempts theres no point, using scrolls ok, but relying on them for your build is not unless you can cast without fail. like i said this is for people farmilar with PnP rues, you can probly expect if something is higher then PnP power, like aid and mass aid stacking, it weill get changed, so dont plan on certian buffs stacking or not stacking. If youarent farmilar with DnD PnP rules, im sorry rebuild and keep trying till they need to stop fixing things or you learn them. Thats my opinion
]

the regrind isnt that bad with the gear, took me 2 days and a couple hours into the 3rd to get from creation to lvl 8

[Brianius]

Eventualy a ful charicter respec will be needed because at the release of prestige classes does this company expect to reroll every charicter that wants a prestige class?

[Liminosse]

i would assume prestiage class update will come with addtional leels too.

Its not that tough to grind back up when i came back my high lvl fighter rogue toon, my main wasnt tough enough because some of the stats and skills i chose, it just wasnt up to par with the DC on the traps and stuff anymore however i rerolled,

only 3 weeks, 2 12 hour days a week and 5 maybe 2 hour a days each week and i was lvl 14 again with better gear then my previous toon. all for just some skill points,

[AmsterdamHeavy]

What possible impact could allowing someone to respec have? A happier player? Does it impact your character somehow that I am missing? You would think that a respec some how took away some of your abilities the way people make it sound sometimes. It is really just to keep people happy who think their toon is broken by a change. I really don't care if their toon is broken or not.. I do care if they continue to play.

The reason I am against full respecs:

Respec Builds

That is the next thing that happens in a wide open respec system. From 1-5 it will be THIS build, from 5-9 THAT build, from 10-14 THAT build.

I feel it undermines the game when people start planning respecs into builds.

[Lord_X]

Of course everyone who played since the start of the game would want a respec, especially with stats, but will this happen? who knows...

[adrinor]

/signed

[Dane_McArdy]

Hmm...funny I've been around longer then most of you, and not only do I not want a full respec, I don't need one. Before launch in beta.

Inspite of suppossedly being stuck in waterworks...

I've been through every single change. And none of them have been sweeping and none of them have crippled the game.

And as for change the rules, change your character.

They already let you do that. The things some of you want to change, haven't been effected by the rules.

So you got what you want, so no need to keep this up.

[Rouge]

I don't get it. If we got a respec on all of our characters there would be people wanting it again with the next update. Seems kind of like chasing your tail.

If the possible paid expansion is going to be this fall adding 2 new races and 1 new class, just make it part of the expansion. Then if you want another character respec you would have to pay another $29.99 to get the character respec reset for all of your characters.

[Tiblorian]

I had 3/3 charecters nerfed, but we don't need full respecs.

[Chorus]

Hmm...funny I've been around longer then most of you, and not only do I not want a full respec, I don't need one. Before launch in beta.

Inspite of suppossedly being stuck in waterworks...

I've been through every single change. And none of them have been sweeping and none of them have crippled the game.

And as for change the rules, change your character.

They already let you do that. The things some of you want to change, haven't been effected by the rules.

So you got what you want, so no need to keep this up.



Then don't take respec Dane!!! Why should we always have to rebuild a new character because Turbine decides to tweak the rules. Lets face it DDO is BETA with a pricetag.

[Kevr0123]

The reason I am against full respecs:

Respec Builds

That is the next thing that happens in a wide open respec system. From 1-5 it will be THIS build, from 5-9 THAT build, from 10-14 THAT build.

I feel it undermines the game when people start planning respecs into builds.


1. everyone posting for a respec is posting it for a one time respec due to many of the games mechanics that have been altered. We're not trying to rebuild a character and get a respec at lvls 3-5/7-10/11-14. we're trying to respec our lvl 12s-14s to get them up to par with all of the new skill requirements/mobs/spells.




2.We can change our feats and enhancements but classes built around skills are left to becoming gimped. Dane McArdy, people can't change their skills and it sounds pretty obvious that you have a lot of time to place into ddo. I'm still undergoing plenty of studies and don't have the time i use to just to reroll a new character and spend hours trying to re obtain tomes and other character binding items. This game was promised to work for everyone even players who only have a few hours a week, and now in order to keep up we have to resort to power gaming. I understand that game experience may change but we were promised by representatives time and time again that certain game dynamics would not be touched like "evasion pallys". People can argue all they want that it's a bug but this is ddo not PnP and all game dynamics can't be placed onto a mmorpg so alterations must be made in order to make them work. What does the enhancement system follow in PnP, nothing.

I still don't see any negatives in obtaining a one time respec, i think the servers would flourish with forgotten names.

[Chorus]

I still don't see any negatives in obtaining a one time respec, i think the servers would flourish with forgotten names.

Heck ya!!!

[Dane_McArdy]

Then don't take respec Dane!!! Why should we always have to rebuild a new character because Turbine decides to tweak the rules. Lets face it DDO is BETA with a pricetag.

If that's how you feel, then you could stop playing, but you seem to like it.

[Kevr0123]

wow dane you're amazing!!
There's no other game out the like ddo and he is simply requesting a respec. We enjoy the game but it would only create happiness among many of the ddo subscribers if they just gave a one time respec. We don't need your annoying comments here, we're here to debate over a respec.

[Raklar]

Online forums aren't about discussion... they are about winning.

They should just call this out-game PvP.

[dkohaut]

I agree with the premise of the thread. It is past time for a one time free respec for you characters. It just seems right given the scope of the changes made to the game since launch. I would be a great feature appreciated by tons of players. It is a great way to help out more casual players.

[Maldini]

As was done in other games, what Turbine could do - as was suggested by other posters - is provide 1 full respec per character ONLY when they make a tweak to character rules.

Then everyone's happy except for Dane who just likes to go against the majority of players and argue over nothing.

[Maldini]

Hmm...funny I've been around longer then most of you, and not only do I not want a full respec, I don't need one. Before launch in beta.

Inspite of suppossedly being stuck in waterworks...

I've been through every single change. And none of them have been sweeping and none of them have crippled the game.

And as for change the rules, change your character.

They already let you do that. The things some of you want to change, haven't been effected by the rules.

So you got what you want, so no need to keep this up.

Just because you don't need a change, doesn't mean others don't. Don't downplay others because your choices were good ones.

I don't need a full respec on any of my characters, but I'm not going to sit here and say that a full charcter respec isn't needed by the majority of the player-base or that the majority wouldn't use it at one point or another even if they say they don't need it.

Evolution of mechanics and in-game rules is part of all MMO's and as such you need an adaption strategy. For just like in natural evolution if you don't adapt, you die. That is why they gave us enhancement and feat respecs.

I think honestly that they should put something like this up to a vote. Then we'll all see how the majority of the playerbase feels.

[Maldini]

I've spent so many hours on ddo time and time again only to find out on more than one occasion that one of my guys have been reduced to nothing more than a trader/haggle master.. I've spent so much time getting uber loot only to find that my build has been gimped and that if i re-roll another race out there, it would surpass the builds i have put so much time into over and over again.. I have disappeared for months on more than one occasion because i don't have the time and frustration to re-roll again and again trying to get the same randomly rare loot off the titan/demon queen/dragon. So many great players i have met since day one are no longer here because of all the gimping. Even when our guild was the first one to take the dragon down on our server, no one from the guild of 25 elite players log on other than 2 other players and myself.. People that just took down the titan a few months back on our server no longer play and truly I believe that just one respec would bring some of these players back and i definitely think it would have a positive effect in more than one way.


A lot of times with a lot of builds this is because people have tried to be the jack-of-all-trades type. If more people focused there builds into a specific area and a specific purpose, a lot more people would find that the "nerfs" wouldn't affect them as much. All my main characters are fine even after all these shifts in the game. My DPS barb is still the king of DPS, my support cleric is still the king of healing and DV'ing, and my Tank is still the king of all purpose tanking (a.k.a. not a fake rogue/skill monkey).

[Chorus]

If that's how you feel, then you could stop playing, but you seem to like it.

The fact, is Turbine can't seem to make up their minds and every month they seem to nerf builds left and right without explanation. This is why I feel current DDO is beta with a price tag.

Dane, your opinions on respec have such weak grounds. Give up your just looking bad at this point. Your just coming off as some proud child that's been scolded but is to proud to shut it.

Danes reasons

1.You should just rebuild.
2You should just live with it , you made those choices.
3.People might ask for more respecs
4.Because your character is not %100 gimped only %80

You've got to be kidding right?

Chorus's Reasons

1. Many characters built were hurt by changes done by Turbines sudden decisions to change effects of skills (Sneak and tumble combination for example)
2. With the change to AI many other skills previously worthless are now needed. (Adding trips/knockdowns. My evasion paladin is on his but 95% of the time against lions and dogs)
3. Turbine promised that many existing rules would not be changed. For example Evasion.
4. It's only fair that we are allowed to change our characters if Turbine can change the in game rules.
5. Respec will allow many old and lost faces in game to be brought back again.
6. Are characters will be %100 useful again not %80.
7. For some people, the time it took to get them that one piece of dragon/bound item they could have built 4x lvl 14's.
8. The frustration generated by Turbines constant Nerfing will be reduced/gone given the chance that we can adapt are characters to the new rules.
9. It's heart breaking to see your now nerfed toon reserved as official mule.

I can easily think up another 5 more reasons.... but lets get to the point.. Respec makes sense/fair/right/proper/etc./etc.etc/

Dane you can't be serious.

[Maldini]

Lovely language.

First of all, I'm all for respecs for areas of the game that grow and change, like feats, like enhancements, and spells. Even skills, since some skills that had no practical use, are now being tapped for adventures.

But in you ability example, it still comes down to, you simply decided you want to reallocate your abilities. At one time a high charisma was what you needed, and now you don't.

And no it's not commonplace in MMOs to totally respec your character.

And no, it's not what I needed, it's what I thought I needed. No one has a crystal ball or the ability to predict the future. And no one has the free-time to reroll 5 characters and play them up to level 14. Sorry, some of us have bigger priorites in life and not enough free time to waste playing a video game.

[query]

pettition to end pettitions?


But by all means, show me ONE pettition that worked? Not something mentioned in one that happened, but show me evidence that pettition CAUSED the intended change.


I'm going to Cerulean Hills or the Desert now where the sound of crickets will be similar to the initial response.


Instead of demanding something, how about a nice well-written open letter to the developers and community relations folks people?

It's amazing what you get when you say "please" and "thank you."


So, following my own advice, please no more pettitions? Thank you.

[Chorus]

pettition to end pettitions?

Instead of demanding something, how about a nice well-written open letter to the developers and community relations folks people?

It's amazing what you get when you say "please" and "thank you."


So, following my own advice, please no more pettitions? Thank you.

ok. "Please" go away query this is a discusion/petition about Respec. "Thank you"

As far as petitions not creating any change, I don't think the devs wave a magic wand and make changes overnight. Petitions allow devs to know what we the consumer/gamer desire so we can move to the right direction.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

You do know that the Devs have repeatedly said they ignore (except as it applies to following forum rules) the results and contents of all threads containing "petition" in the name right?

[Pellegro]

I think a respec is a great idea and I'm all for it.

If you don't want to do it, then don't.

There have been many many changes throughout the game. There is no sense in debating whether we should have anticipated them, or whether they are "major enough". Fact is, games change, rules change, playstyles change, play changes. Let the players change too.

Only current option is reroll which is not a real option for 90% of the casual players as they're not willing to "start over". The time commitment is too great. Even for those of us who spend far too much time in game, rerolling is a pretty big commitment, one that lots of us would rather skip.

Respec also makes quest design easier because at lvls > 10 or so, DEVs can *assume* everyone has a near min/max build that is optimized. No need to build quests for half-gimped toons because by then, everyone knows the game, has respec option, and can build a proper character. Quest design is simplified.

At the end of the day, a respec is just another option to increase the fun factor. As such, I'm all for it.

[Pellegro]

The reason I am against full respecs:

Respec Builds

That is the next thing that happens in a wide open respec system. From 1-5 it will be THIS build, from 5-9 THAT build, from 10-14 THAT build.

I feel it undermines the game when people start planning respecs into builds.

Thats an interesting observation - presumably, if people had full respec option they would play 1 type of setup to level X, switch to a different setup to level Y, etc.

But even if true - who cares? If thats how they want to play, whats it matter to anyone else?

Fact is, if someone is rolling from lvl 1 up (as opposed to respeccing an already levelled toon into a diff. class, etc.), then they enjoy the process of getting to XP-Cap. If so, I say increase their options by permitting them the respec ability. It only increases the fun.

Regardless, I doubt that would happen all that much because I suspect most players would just respec out the capped toons into something else - which sort of brings to mind a different concern. Maybe they don't allow respec to force us to reroll - not out of malice, but in order to keep mid-lvls around for new players (who have to grind) to group with? Otherwise we'd quickly end up with a huge dearth of midlevels wouldn't we?

Last - you could avoid the build-of-the-day concern by limiting respecs as well. Dragonshards are pretty rare. You could make respec crystals even more rare, and just give out a freebie with each game mechanic change.

[Ringlord]

First off the devs ( yep those people who make this game ) have said petitions are ignored as a matter of course so if you want to discuss something about the game and actually want them to look at it then stop posting threads with the stupid word petition in them.

Now second I recommend you go listen to this weeks DDO cast and hear right from Eladrin ( one of the devs ) about the idea of a complete respec. He says the devs understand and are not against the idea, but there are too many technical issues keeping it from being done at this time. Sort of like why they did not change evasion until they absolutely had to so they could add Monks since they saw way too many balance issues with the game if Monks could wear heavy armor with evasion.

Who was accusing Dane of having so much time to play this game and saying they don't, yet they also say they have 5 level 14 characters? Sorry, but you just shot so many holes in your own argument that swiss cheese is envious. If you had the time to make and level 5 characters to L14 you have the time to do it again if you are that bothered by a change that means a few less points in AC or whatever else a change may affect.

I have been playing since the head start and I have one character to L11.2 and I have no complaints about any of the changes and many of them have affected my character. I have noticed in the time I have been playing and been on these boards the ones mostly clamoring for a Total Respec are the Min/Max players who feel the loss of one or two points on any skill, stat or whatever suddenly make their character totally useless. Sadly for those players they will always go through this with every MMO out there as they will always change things. When the devs have the resources to devote to figuring out a way to make a respec like this work so players don't lose the tomes they consumed then they will put it in the game.

In the mean time you can either play the changed character and possibly discover they are no where near as bad off as you thought without likely even trying them out under the new change. You can delete them and start over or you can move on to another game. As much as the first option might seem distasteful to you it is actually your best one since again you will have the same issues with changes in any other MMO and if you really love DDO then why leave to just go through the same thing in a game you don't enjoy as much even if they do currently offer a respec for each change?

Nobody else can tell you what to do, but advice can be offered and you can choose to listen to it or ignore it as you see fit. I advise sticking it out and seeing if the devs can solve the current issues preventing a full respec or if they come up with other ways for players to compensate for some of what they may lose with a specific change.

[Maldini]

Who was accusing Dane of having so much time to play this game and saying they don't, yet they also say they have 5 level 14 characters? Sorry, but you just shot so many holes in your own argument that swiss cheese is envious. If you had the time to make and level 5 characters to L14 you have the time to do it again if you are that bothered by a change that means a few less points in AC or whatever else a change may affect.



You don't read well at all. I have 1 level 14 character, not 5. I said 5 because of people having to constantly reroll.

And the Min/Max'ers aren't complaining. The other people are. I'm one of the first min/max'ers in this game, and none of the changes have seriously affected any of my builds.

[Cowdenicus]

You don't read well at all. I have 1 level 14 character, not 5. I said 5 because of people having to constantly reroll.

And the Min/Max'ers aren't complaining. The other people are. I'm one of the first min/max'ers in this game, and none of the changes have seriously affected any of my builds.

exactly. my cleric is not min maxxed (close but not) and the changes have not affected me at all. That being said, if people want a respec, I am all for giving them one.

Heck I might even take one in the future, you never know.

[Marabias]

If that's how you feel, then you could stop playing, but you seem to like it.

Thats how alot of people feel and why alot of people quit. People quitting the game hurts your game play far more then a re-spec ever would.

[LOUDRampart]

As much as I like this game, my feeling is it is still in a beta mode.

Look, they originally were going to make a level 20 game until they realized just how big that would be so they aimed at level 10. That means level 11 to 20 were placed on the backburner until they need them. Sure there are drawn out plans but anyone who has taken a computer programming 101 class knows that what you write in class, and what you program in the computer changes... same applies in a huge game with a lot more written code then my bonehead computer programs back in college.

So even though for the first 10 levels I was pretty adamant that there should never be a character respec... I've changed my tone a bit. I think there should be one but it must be carefully planned. After all, we're only at the level 14 game. There are still 6 more "normal" levels of DDO to break your characters again and again... :eek:

And for the record. I've been around at least as long as Dane... maybe longer... :D

[Elfvyra]

I suppose I'd go along with a full respec IF...

1) it costs, oh... 1,000,000 Plat for the Wish spell.
2) It made you a lvl 1 character, so you could do all your Classes/Feats/Enhancements the way you think they should be done. At least until the next set of Enhancements and such....
3) Of course the Bankers, Vendors and Favor folk wouldn't recognize you. After all, you're no longer 'X' the great Paladin/Rogue or 'Y' the magnificent Bard of 14th level and Fame.
;)

[Dane_McArdy]

As much as I like this game, my feeling is it is still in a beta mode.

Look, they originally were going to make a level 20 game until they realized just how big that would be so they aimed at level 10. That means level 11 to 20 were placed on the backburner until they need them. Sure there are drawn out plans but anyone who has taken a computer programming 101 class knows that what you write in class, and what you program in the computer changes... same applies in a huge game with a lot more written code then my bonehead computer programs back in college.

So even though for the first 10 levels I was pretty adamant that there should never be a character respec... I've changed my tone a bit. I think there should be one but it must be carefully planned. After all, we're only at the level 14 game. There are still 6 more "normal" levels of DDO to break your characters again and again... :eek:

And for the record. I've been around at least as long as Dane... maybe longer... :D

I guess what people don't understand about my no total respec stance is this.

Where the game changes, yes, there needs to be the ability to change your character. For bards and sorcerers, first level spells that were good at levels 1-5 might not be so good later, and other spells more needed. Examples, taking summon monster at first level meant you eventually had a spell that you wouldn't use anymore. While taking jump wasn't as needed.

But thanks to the swap spell ability, which is a feature of bard and sorcerer classes, you can take summon monster 1, and that has outgrown, take a different spell.

With new feats being added, or the possiblity of taking a feat that later on, you find doesn't work out that well, there is Fred.

If you want to redo all your enhancements, you can, every three days infact.

Skills. Well, they haven't added any, the only changes to them have been to make them more useful. With crafting coming, I could easily see a need for a skill respec, if crafting involves having skill to make items to enchant, like you do in paper. Not allowing characters to respec skills to get crafting abilities wouldn't be fair. So when crafting gets put in the game, if they use skill as part of it, I hope and suspect they will, allow for respec of skills.

But this isn't really what people are asking for. They say they need to be able to fix characters broken by changes to the game. But those exist.

And so far, no one has given a decent reason why they need to become a halfling from a human because they took scrolls out of the game. No one has a good reason for why they should beable to keep all their favor because they changed evasion to work like it should, especially if that person didn't take any levels of rogue to get evasion.

So if you say you need a respec to fix a character, you already have the ability to do that where they make the most changes in the game. As for trying to dump some levels of rogue because of the coming evasion fix, don't know what to tell you. Ideally, Turbine should allow people to get ride of rogue levels, so long as it's not their higher class, a few weeks before evasion fix goes in.

And I say that, because Turbine said they were leaving it as is, and then Dave left, and they changed tracks. And once after the fix goes live, take out the ability to dump rogue levels, cause after the fix, anyone that takes rogue levels, took them because they wanted them.

[Kalibak]

Online forums aren't about discussion... they are about winning.

They should just call this out-game PvP.


In online forums, noone's a "winner" ;)

[dkrustyklown]

I think there should be unlimited respecs.

If one person doesn't like respecs, then fine, they don't have to do them. Whether or not another character takes advantage of a respec does not affect anyone else.

[Maldini]

Again, as a poster above said. Full respecs will not affect your gameplay or your characters. If anything they will bring back players. This game needs a bigger playerbase as some servers are dwindling down to nothing.

Some people would rather see the game die, then for it to get a useful change that many people would like because they don't think it's "right".

[Kevr0123]

The fact, is Turbine can't seem to make up their minds and every month they seem to nerf builds left and right without explanation. This is why I feel current DDO is beta with a price tag.

Dane, your opinions on respec have such weak grounds. Give up your just looking bad at this point. Your just coming off as some proud child that's been scolded but is to proud to shut it.

Danes reasons

1.You should just rebuild.
2You should just live with it , you made those choices.
3.People might ask for more respecs
4.Because your character is not %100 gimped only %80

You've got to be kidding right?

Chorus's Reasons

1. Many characters built were hurt by changes done by Turbines sudden decisions to change effects of skills (Sneak and tumble combination for example)
2. With the change to AI many other skills previously worthless are now needed. (Adding trips/knockdowns. My evasion paladin is on his but 95% of the time against lions and dogs)
3. Turbine promised that many existing rules would not be changed. For example Evasion.
4. It's only fair that we are allowed to change our characters if Turbine can change the in game rules.
5. Respec will allow many old and lost faces in game to be brought back again.
6. Are characters will be %100 useful again not %80.
7. For some people, the time it took to get them that one piece of dragon/bound item they could have built 4x lvl 14's.
8. The frustration generated by Turbines constant Nerfing will be reduced/gone given the chance that we can adapt are characters to the new rules.
9. It's heart breaking to see your now nerfed toon reserved as official mule.

I can easily think up another 5 more reasons.... but lets get to the point.. Respec makes sense/fair/right/proper/etc./etc.etc/

Dane you can't be serious.


I could add another 20x reasons for respec myself.



Some people would rather see the game die, then for it to get a useful change that many people would like because they don't think it's "right".


Make that 21x reasons and counting

[dmitri]

/shouts "NO!!!!" at top of voice
/walks away smirking

[Kevr0123]

/shouts "NO!!!!" at top of voice
/walks away smirking

umm... Yeah

The AA forum is the next two clicks over

[mrvain]

/signed

rerolling is alright for the uber players, but for those of us with limited time to play (and that not in a non ideal time zone), rule changes can be a serious problem.

This respec would completely solve character nerfs due to rule changes

[Yabba]

I only read the first 4 pages but here goes.

If you need more skill points in balance because the lions keep tripping you, take them when you take your next level. No need for a full respec.

If they did allow a full respect however I could finally use that +1 Str tome I found. I could take a point off Str and put it on Con before/after eating the tome. There by making it a Con tome instead.

Sweet.

Oh, and the +5 Dex gloves I have that make my Dex an odd number. Another respec and I'll have more Con again.

Sweet.

I rolled a new character and levelled it to 11 with 1200 favour in 3 weeks. I had fun in the process as well. Beats running PoP over & over with my 14's.

[Yabba]

Uh ohh. Are you guys really suggesting I should be able to take my 14 lvls of cleric and make it 14lvls of fighter on Saturday (my party needed a tank) and then take 14lvls of Wizard on Sunday (my party really needed a wizard)?

[Falco_Easts]

I only read the first 4 pages but here goes.

If you need more skill points in balance because the lions keep tripping you, take them when you take your next level. No need for a full respec.

If they did allow a full respect however I could finally use that +1 Str tome I found. I could take a point off Str and put it on Con before/after eating the tome. There by making it a Con tome instead.

Sweet.

Oh, and the +5 Dex gloves I have that make my Dex an odd number. Another respec and I'll have more Con again.

Sweet.

I rolled a new character and levelled it to 11 with 1200 favour in 3 weeks. I had fun in the process as well. Beats running PoP over & over with my 14's.

This is actually a pretty good argument against a re-spec. You find some good loot you currently can't use, so you rebuild your character from scratch so you can use it?

A character has devoted 14 levels to being dexterity based character, using finesse and light weapons all the sudden finds a kick-a@@ Greatsword of Vorpal Disruption whatever so all the sudden re-specs and is now a Str/Con based Tank (Until he finds another bit of loot that is better and wants to re-spec again).

Na, I don't think so.

[Chorus]

I only read the first 4 pages but here goes.

If you need more skill points in balance because the lions keep tripping you, take them when you take your next level. No need for a full respec.

If they did allow a full respect however I could finally use that +1 Str tome I found. I could take a point off Str and put it on Con before/after eating the tome. There by making it a Con tome instead.

Sweet.

Oh, and the +5 Dex gloves I have that make my Dex an odd number. Another respec and I'll have more Con again.

Sweet.

I rolled a new character and levelled it to 11 with 1200 favour in 3 weeks. I had fun in the process as well. Beats running PoP over & over with my 14's.





This is actually a pretty good argument against a re-spec. You find some good loot you currently can't use, so you rebuild your character from scratch so you can use it?

A character has devoted 14 levels to being dexterity based character, using finesse and light weapons all the sudden finds a kick-a@@ Greatsword of Vorpal Disruption whatever so all the sudden re-specs and is now a Str/Con based Tank (Until he finds another bit of loot that is better and wants to re-spec again).

Na, I don't think so.

You your sooooo right.. Lets just keep RE-rolling every month they nerf the current rules. I mean it ONLY takes 3 weeks.

hahah... ya right.. this is actually a reason why you SHOULD allow respec. But nice try, but I added your lame reason to a previous list or pros and cons.

The fact, is Turbine can't seem to make up their minds and every month they seem to nerf builds left and right without explanation. This is why I feel current DDO is beta with a price tag.

Dane, your opinions on respec have such weak grounds. Give up your just looking bad at this point. Your just coming off as some proud child that's been scolded but is to proud to shut it.

Danes reasons

1.You should just rebuild.
2You should just live with it , you made those choices.
3.People might ask for more respecs
4.Because your character is not %100 gimped only %80
5. Because it only takes 3 weeks to start from scratch to lvl 14
You've got to be kidding right?

Chorus's Reasons

1. Many characters built were hurt by changes done by Turbines sudden decisions to change effects of skills (Sneak and tumble combination for example)
2. With the change to AI many other skills previously worthless are now needed. (Adding trips/knockdowns. My evasion paladin is on his but 95% of the time against lions and dogs)
3. Turbine promised that many existing rules would not be changed. For example Evasion.
4. It's only fair that we are allowed to change our characters if Turbine can change the in game rules.
5. Respec will allow many old and lost faces in game to be brought back again.
6. Are characters will be %100 useful again not %80.
7. For some people, the time it took to get them that one piece of dragon/bound item they could have built 4x lvl 14's.
8. The frustration generated by Turbines constant Nerfing will be reduced/gone given the chance that we can adapt are characters to the new rules.
9. It's heart breaking to see your now nerfed toon reserved as official mule.

I can easily think up another 5 more reasons.... but lets get to the point.. Respec makes sense/fair/right/proper/etc./etc.etc/

Dane you can't be serious.

[quickgrif]

Simple answer is when they change a critical part of the game that will change game play of many builds offer a onetime respec. They did that on DAOC when I played it a while back.

[Chorus]

Simple answer is when they change a critical part of the game that will change game play of many builds offer a onetime respec. They did that on DAOC when I played it a while back.

Hey quickgrif you seem to be one of the only people posting here that has been in a game that has allowed respec. Can you please give us some details. How did it effect the game? Was it a Positive thing or Negative effect over all for the game... etc etc.

[Yabba]

So do you actually support people getting a full respec to go from a lvl14 Cleric to a lvl14 Wizard or Fighter?

[mrvain]

Simple answer is when they change a critical part of the game that will change game play of many builds offer a onetime respec. They did that on DAOC when I played it a while back.

Exactly. Allow everyone a one time chance to fix damage done by *MAJOR* changes in rules. Although I agree you probably need to keep a similar balance of class levels.

For all of you talking about relevelling a character to 14, this isn't very realistic for some of us. I have been playing since April last year and due to the difficulty finding groups (sucks to be in Australian time zone) and short playing session (real life commitments keep my sessions to 60 to 90 minutes generally) my highest level character is 12. I rarely get a chance to play my highest level character. I don't want to have to reroll and start again just because the rules have changed

[Chorus]

So do you actually support people getting a full respec to go from a lvl14 Cleric to a lvl14 Wizard or Fighter?

YES!!
Now can you tell me how this would hurt the game?

[Falco_Easts]

YES!!
Now can you tell me how this would hurt the game?

Whether it's Online or PnP, D&D is a roleplaying game. This does not mean you have to go full RP mode but it is RP nonetheless.

Switching classes like that would be like me waking up in the morning and saying, "I don't think I will go to work today, I feel like being an underwear model Instead".

Nice thought but not gonna happen

You play your character. If you don't like him/her - Stiff. You shouldn't have made them that way. Changing class would be a big mistake and go against what D&D is intended to be.

[Yabba]

How would it improve the game?

If you want a fighter instead of a cleric, do the hard yards.

You're asking for a full respec due to the changes that have been made to the rules. Like evasion. I'm sure respecing your 12 ftr/2 rogue to a lvl14 wiz goes beyond what you are asking for.

I've started playing a sorc. At lvl4 it's a tough class to play. With your wishes, you could roll a ftr and lvl it to 10, then respec it as a sorc when they are easier to play.

I'm sure that's not what the game is all about but it would certainly satisfy people who can't be bothered doing the hard work to get the right build.

[mrvain]

You shouldn't have made them that way. Changing class would be a big mistake and go against what D&D is intended to be.

Although I agree that you shouldn't be able to change too much in regards to your class levels, the first thing D&D is intended to be is fun. If allowing people to fix damage to a build caused by rule changes makes the game more fun then it should be part of the game.

[Pellegro]

You anti-respeccers are saying that it would hurt *your* view of what the game should be.

I say - then don't respec.

Honestly, I wouldn't respec into a different class every other day, but if someone wanted to - so what??? If that keeps them interested, then isn't it a good thing?

I feel the end coming for me as content slows down. I've tried to reroll. I can't stand the grind.

If I could respec my lvl 13 cleric to a different cleric build - that would stretch things out a bit for me as I played with it. Then when I got bored again, maybe I'd enjoy turning him into a bard. I'd *enjoy* the learning process of playing a new class .... Then maybe I'd try out a pally next since I've never had one of them.

The point is, if it increases my enjoyment, adn therefore keeps me around longer, then its good for the game.

Besides - I think back on page 3 or 4 someone posted that a developer stated in that ddo radiochat show that they're not against giving us ability to respec (most likely a one time deal) but they don't have the ability/tech to allow it. Probably has to do with tomes and what level you ate them and how it factors into things like skill points - who knows.

[Tat2Freak]

I'd really like you to answer this one bud.


No, not needed.

I'm asking that all petition threads be autodeleted.

[pscomputers]

This is a lame excuse for a whinge.

DDO is a dynamic game, continually changing to enhance the experience. If changes to the game effect your characters, as they do with all characters evolving from different mod updates, then the solution is simple.

Build a new character taking into account the game changes and enjoy the game again!!!

The facts are the game is dynamic and will continue changing. I have been on DDO for roughly 6 months now and there appears to be updates almost monthly. Does this mean there should be a respek with every update? This will get a bit lame for the real ddo players who are grouped with lamers.

Maybe Turbine can set aside a dedicated server for the real players with some of the following ideas:-

1. Permadeath - you die the character is deleted from the server.
2. Bound Equippable Weapons - no power handdowns from higher
level characters.

In this way players with high level characters on this server would be truly elite as opposed to a lamer with a high level character.
All players will have the chance to vote with their mouse (feet) so to speak, and choose an "elite" server.

[Yabba]

If I could respec my lvl 13 cleric to a different cleric build - that would stretch things out a bit for me as I played with it. Then when I got bored again, maybe I'd enjoy turning him into a bard. I'd *enjoy* the learning process of playing a new class .... Then maybe I'd try out a pally next since I've never had one of them.


Don't you think that part of this learning experience is to start at 0xp, not 910,000?

Be a man and take up the challenge of building a class from the ground up.

[Tija]

/not signed

[Chorus]

Whether it's Online or PnP, D&D is a role-playing game. This does not mean you have to go full RP mode but it is RP nonetheless.

Switching classes like that would be like me waking up in the morning and saying, "I don't think I will go to work today, I feel like being an underwear model Instead".

Nice thought but not going to happen

You play your character. If you don't like him/her - Stiff. You shouldn't have made them that way. Changing class would be a big mistake and go against what D&D is intended to be.

1. LOL it's a Video game first of all.


2. You haven't answered my question. How will it HURT the game? You find it WEIRD to suddenly have your character be a different class and that's your reason(LOL)? Well FALCO if you want to compare it to real life it's called a second career. (LOL)
If you want to make it about Role play then i'll happily Role play a character who's going back to school in game to go from fighter to wizard. Happy now??

3. I'm asking for respec based on the fact that TURBINE keeps changing the rules.. Again if you want to compare it to real life it's like God deciding to change the laws of gravity.

LOL you got to be kidding me..

Please give me a real reason NOT to have respec so I can stop laughing. I'm tired of all these sad, sad, sad, sad, answers.

[Tija]

Please give me a real reason not to have respec so I can stop laughing. I'm tired of all these sad answers.

This game is to easy atm, all a respec will do is make us all more powerful.

[Chorus]

This game is to easy atm, all a respec will do is make us all more powerful.


ROFL.....

Ok seriously folks............

ROFLMAO......


It will make us all more powerful ???

ROFLMAO again.... lol, lol


Ok now again folks, please give me a real answer.

[Yabba]

Yup. A lvl14 plumber wakes up 1 morning, decides he wants to be an electrician and hey presto!!! He goes to school and walks out as a lvl14 electrician. If only real life was that easy.

How will this hurt the game?

Someone starts the game and rolls up 1 toon. A Fighter. He levels it to 14 and decides he's bored and wants to try a Cleric.

So he uses his ability to respec and bang!!! He's a lvl 14 Cleric. Never played one before. Doesn't know the spells, and hasn't any idea how to set up the UI for a cleric.

Do you want to party with this person?

IMO one good reason not to be able to full respec is you get to be a lvl 14 (insert class here) by earning the right to be one.

Getting rid of 2 rogue lvls from your evasion fighter build is a whole different matter.

[Falco_Easts]

1. LOL it's a Video game first of all.


2. You haven't answered my question. How will it HURT the game? You find it WEIRD to sudenly have your character be a different class and thats your reason(LOL)? Well FALCO if you want to compare it to real life it's called a second career. (LOL)
If you want to make it about Role play then i'll happily Role paly a toon who's going back to school in game to go from fighter to wizzard. Happy now??

LOL you gotta be kiding me..

Please give me a real reason not to have respec so I can stop laughing. I'm tired of all these sad answers.


Nope, sorry. Multiclassing would be a second career. What you are talking about is changing classes. Losing every memory, skill and bit of experience I have doing what I have now and not remembering a thing about it. To change classes that is what would have to happen, start from scratch i.e re-roll. Anything else is just a multi-class.

How will it hurt the game?
Your cut up about the changes that have "nerfed" your character? Suddenly they allow re-specs. Turbine would have just nerfed every player who has spent countless hours building different characters to the way they want them.
"What, I spent months making a L14 Cleric, L14 Barb, L14 Sorc and L14 Ranger when i could have just done with the one and changed it whenever I felt like it?"

Na, your right Chorus, I bow down to your wisdom, that wouldn't get players leaving at all.

[Tija]

Ok now again folks, please give me a real answer.

because you see it everytime you load the game

Game Experience May >>>CHANGE<<< During Online Play

[Chorus]

Nope, sorry. Multiclassing would be a second career. What you are talking about is changing classes. Losing every memory, skill and bit of experience I have doing what I have now and not remembering a thing about it. To change classes that is what would have to happen, start from scratch i.e re-roll. Anything else is just a multi-class.

How will it hurt the game?
Your cut up about the changes that have "nerfed" your character? Suddenly they allow re-specs. Turbine would have just nerfed every player who has spent countless hours building different characters to the way they want them.
"What, I spent months making a L14 Cleric, L14 Barb, L14 Sorc and L14 Ranger when i could have just done with the one and changed it whenever I felt like it?"

Na, your right Chorus, I bow down to your wisdom, that wouldn't get players leaving at all.

ROFL

Best one yet..

1. It's a game not Real life LOL LOL LOL

2. It's a game lol

3. it's a Game lol

4. It takes what a whole couple of hours to really master a class.

5. I'm not advocating Respec so you can pick a new class. I was simply asked what I thought of it and simply said it doesn't bother me. I'm advocating respec based on the nerfs TURBINE has done not so we can role new toons at our whim.

PLEASE READ PAGE 1 before you jump into this discussion. Thank you

[Yabba]

5. I'm not advocating Respec so you can pick a new class. I was simply asked what I thought of it and simply said it doesn't bother me. I'm advocating respec based on the nerfs TURBINE has done not so we can role new toons at our whim.

PLEASE READ PAGE 1 before you jump into this discussion. Thank you

Of course you are. Or you would not have included your lvl 14 Pure Bard.

Also read post #120. You're totally in support of changing classes even going so far as saying it wouldn't HURT the game.

[Chorus]

because you see it everytime you load the game

Game Experience May >>>CHANGE<<< During Online Play

Umm...

[Falco_Easts]

So do you actually support people getting a full respec to go from a lvl14 Cleric to a lvl14 Wizard or Fighter?

YES!!
Now can you tell me how this would hurt the game?


ROFL

5. I'm not advocating Respec so you can pick a new class. I was simply asked what I thought of it and simply said it doesn't bother me. I'm advocating respec based on the nerfs TURBINE has done not so we can role new toons at our whim.

PLEASE READ PAGE 1 before you jump into this discussion. Thank you

Make your mind up

[Chorus]

Of course you are. Or you would not have included your lvl 14 Pure Bard.

Also read post #120. You're totally in support of changing classes even going so far as saying it wouldn't HURT the game.

LOL

Please READ PAGE 1. Ops.. i forgot to say ALL of page 1.

[Chorus]

Make your mind up

AGAIN I'm advocating respec on the basis of NERFS made by Turbine. I have no intetions of changing my class for my bard just my skills. As for my Evasion paladin I would like to change his class. from 12paladin/2 rogue into 14 paladin.

Look Falco stop grasping at air and give me a GOOD reason to not have respec.. Key word here is >>>GOOD<<<<

[Chorus]

Chorus's Reasons

1. Many characters built were hurt by changes done by Turbines sudden decisions to change effects of skills (Sneak and tumble combination for example)
2. With the change to AI many other skills previously worthless are now needed. (Adding trips/knockdowns. My evasion paladin is on his but 95% of the time against lions and dogs)
3. Turbine promised that many existing rules would not be changed. For example Evasion.
4. It's only fair that we are allowed to change our characters if Turbine can change the in game rules.
5. Respec will allow many old and lost faces in game to be brought back again.
6. Our characters will be %100 useful again not %80.
7. For some people, the time it took to get them that one piece of dragon/bound item they could have built 4x lvl 14's.
8. The frustration generated by Turbines constant Nerfing will be reduced/gone given the chance that we can adapt are characters to the new rules.
9. It's heart breaking to see your now nerfed toon reserved as official mule.



Here are just a FEW of the reasons Falco. Please explain your reasons against Respec.... :D

[Falco_Easts]

AGAIN I'm advocating respec on the basis of NERFS made by Turbine. I have no intetions of changing my class for my bard just my skills. As for my Evasion paladin I would like to change his class. from 12paladin/2 rogue into 14 paladin.

Look Falco stop grasping at air and give me a GOOD reason to not have respec.. Key word here is >>>GOOD<<<<

Now you have made your point clear, I could agree to a re-spec/swap on the the rogue classes. Don't agree with it myself, wouldn't do it myself but can see why others might after the Turbine Evasion issue.
On a full class re-spec/swap, no way.
As for a good reason, if you can't understand why it goes against the game, I don't think you ever will.

[Kevr0123]

game experience may change is obvious.. so change the experience by adding a 1 time respec... all you have to do is make it extremely hard to get another repsec like getting 12 dragon stones to make it into a unique stone of some sort and have 2k favor.. and after a respec all the favor goes back down to 0.. i'm for a respec because i no longer have time to reroll like i use to.. i'm now going to school mwf working t th and sometimes on the weekends if i need a lil extra cash, studying during the nights, and spending time with family friends and gf during the weekends.. i don't have the time that i use to as much as i love this game and i know there are many other players that have a hectic schedule out there that are still hanging in there and a lot more that have quit. COH/COV and DAOC have given out respecs during the times that i played both games and there were no negatives unless you consider the servers repopulating a con.

[Yabba]

I think several >>>>GOOD<<<< reasons have already been put forth. I think it's the difference in opinions that stops you from seeing them for what they are.

[Tija]

AGAIN I'm advocating respec on the basis of NERFS made by Turbine. I have no intetions of changing my class for my bard just my skills. As for my Evasion paladin I would like to change his class. from 12paladin/2 rogue into 14 paladin.

Look Falco stop grasping at air and give me a GOOD reason to not have respec.. Key word here is >>>GOOD<<<<

Because it is open to abuse, you may do it for what you deam a valid reason, can you say the same for everyone else?

[Chorus]

I think several >>>>GOOD<<<< reasons have already been put forth. I think it's the difference in opinions that stops you from seeing them for what they are.

Please list the reasons Yabba. I haven't seen a single >>>>GOOD<<<< reason not to respec. List all the reasons please. I listed above mine.. I'll copy and paste my response next too your reasons so everyone can see a clear comparison.

[Yabba]

If I really cared about the matter I would.

If turbine want to add full respec's they will. They don't, they won't. Will it ruin my game play experience? No.

If I don't like my character, I'll just delete it and start again, like I did with the dozen or so lvl9's I've deleted in the past.

Have a good day sir.

[Chorus]

Because it is open to abuse, you may do it for what you deam a valid reason, can you say the same for everyone else?



AGAIN How does this hurt the game? I'm not for changing your class completly, however it also doesn't bother me. However, please explain why it would be such a terrible thing if this does happen.

[Chorus]

If I really cared about the matter I would.

If turbine want to add full respec's they will. They don't, they won't. Will it ruin my game play experience? No.

If I don't like my character, I'll just delete it and start again, like I did with the dozen or so lvl9's I've deleted in the past.

Have a good day sir.

LOL

Yup just like I thought.. not a single>>>GOOD<<< reason

Come one people.. I'm just asking for the reasons why we shouldn't have respec. I listed my reasons list you reasons. I'm a very open minded / logical person, explaing the reason why we should not respec.

[Yabba]

When you start offering >>>>GOOD<<<< reasons for allowing it, I'll start listed >>>>GOOD<<<< reasons for not allowing it.

[Chorus]

When you start offering >>>>GOOD<<<< reasons for allowing it, I'll start listed >>>>GOOD<<<< reasons for not allowing it.



Chorus's Reasons

1. Many characters built were hurt by changes done by Turbines sudden decisions to change effects of skills (Sneak and tumble combination for example)
2. With the change to AI many other skills previously worthless are now needed. (Adding trips/knockdowns. My evasion paladin is on his but 95% of the time against lions and dogs)
3. Turbine promised that many existing rules would not be changed. For example Evasion.
4. It's only fair that we are allowed to change our characters if Turbine can change the in game rules.
5. Respec will allow many old and lost faces in game to be brought back again.
6. Our characters will be %100 useful again not %80.
7. For some people, the time it took to get them that one piece of dragon/bound item they could have built 4x lvl 14's.
8. The frustration generated by Turbines constant Nerfing will be reduced/gone given the chance that we can adapt are characters to the new rules.
9. It's heart breaking to see your now nerfed toon reserved as official mule.





Copy and pasted for the 4th time and for the 5th time Please read page 1.

[Yabba]

I said good reasons.

[Chorus]

I said good reasons.

ROFL..

ROFLMAO..

In contrast to what?

Go ahead I challange you to list your reasons.

I belive the saying is put up or shut up.

[thorleif]

No, not needed.

I'm asking that all petition threads be autodeleted.

says you and who cares

/sign

[Kevr0123]

if you don't care about the respec yabba then you don't need to respec your character just simply delete your character and start over again like you suggest. On the other hand, for people who don't have much time to play and i'm not just primarly talking about the grinding more in the lines of raiding which is harder in my opinion because you have to set times and run them over and over and over agian just to get a piece of loot, this is not an option. This game promised content that casual players like myself could enjoy without having to be a powergamer, a type of game that sets itself apart from other games like EQ and WOW so i don;t have to play 24/7 in order to get a higher lvl character and good gear.

A respec is not too much to ask for and for the negatives i do think that the pros greatly out weigh the cons in every manner.

[Kevr0123]

If I really cared about the matter I would.

If turbine want to add full respec's they will. They don't, they won't. Will it ruin my game play experience? No.

If I don't like my character, I'll just delete it and start again, like I did with the dozen or so lvl9's I've deleted in the past.

Have a good day sir.


1. If it won't ruin your game experience why are you complaing that there should not be a full respec.

2. It's pretty obvious that you do care about the matter if you are replying to this post and continue to reply, so post a good reason or just leave and have a good day your self, sir.

[Yabba]

Because there is no perfect build.

You'll get your respec and make yet another flawed/boring character and you'll want another one.

Learn to adapt your play style to the changes made to the game. Losing 2 points of UMD on your lvl14 Human Bard is hardly a reason to fully respec your character to a lvl14 Drow Sorcerer. It's just an excuse for a lazy player who doesn't want to put in the hard work to earn a lvl14 Sorc.

Where's your sense of achievement? The pride you feel making a new character and grinding it up to higher and higher levels?

Now instead of making stupid forum challenges to list GOOD reasons to do this or that, take the challenge of creating something special through hard work and good game play.

Too many people making the lame excuse of 'I hardly have time to play, to lvl a new character'. Well then. Seeing as you hardly play, you'll hardly be affected by the changes then.

Back in the old PnP days before AD&D, part of the excitement of the game was playing characters with flaws. You got to roll 3d6 for each ability score and that was it.

Then people wanted the perfect character. Nothing short of 6x18's was good enough. Oh... and don't forget 18/00 for strength. Otherwise the character was gimp. So they started to modify the way characters were rolled. 4d6 and subtract the lowest die. Roll 3 sets of scores and pick the best ones. Roll up your character while no-one is looking and state you rolled fairly.

I can remember when Baldur's gate came out on the pc and spending an hour clicking the reroll button until I got 36+ ability points to distribute.

THERE IS NO PERFECT BUILD. Allowing people to respec once, twice or even 10 times will not solve anything in the long term. All it will do is allow people to take short cuts and skip the learning process.

Maybe Turbine should just allow you to make lvl14 Characters from the outset? Allow you to pick 6 pieces of Raid loot at character generation? Give you a million platinum pieces worth of equipment. 4 Planar Girds, A Chaosgard and a Carniflex or the Scepter of Healing from Invaders. That way, all the people who can only play 2-4 hours a week can experience the best the game has to offer without having to be a power gamer.

Where do you draw the line?

[Dane_McArdy]

Because there is no perfect build.

You'll get your respec and make yet another flawed/boring character and you'll want another one.

Learn to adapt your play style to the changes made to the game. Losing 2 points of UMD on your lvl14 Human Bard is hardly a reason to fully respec your character to a lvl14 Drow Sorcerer. It's just an excuse for a lazy player who doesn't want to put in the hard work to earn a lvl14 Sorc.

Where's your sense of achievement? The pride you feel making a new character and grinding it up to higher and higher levels?

Now instead of making stupid forum challenges to list GOOD reasons to do this or that, take the challenge of creating something special through hard work and good game play.

Too many people making the lame excuse of 'I hardly have time to play, to lvl a new character'. Well then. Seeing as you hardly play, you'll hardly be affected by the changes then.

Back in the old PnP days before AD&D, part of the excitement of the game was playing characters with flaws. You got to roll 3d6 for each ability score and that was it.

Then people wanted the perfect character. Nothing short of 6x18's was good enough. Oh... and don't forget 18/00 for strength. Otherwise the character was gimp. So they started to modify the way characters were rolled. 4d6 and subtract the lowest die. Roll 3 sets of scores and pick the best ones. Roll up your character while no-one is looking and state you rolled fairly.

I can remember when Baldur's gate came out on the pc and spending an hour clicking the reroll button until I got 36+ ability points to distribute.

THERE IS NO PERFECT BUILD. Allowing people to respec once, twice or even 10 times will not solve anything in the long term. All it will do is allow people to take short cuts and skip the learning process.

Maybe Turbine should just allow you to make lvl14 Characters from the outset? Allow you to pick 6 pieces of Raid loot at character generation? Give you a million platinum pieces worth of equipment. 4 Planar Girds, A Chaosgard and a Carniflex or the Scepter of Healing from Invaders. That way, all the people who can only play 2-4 hours a week can experience the best the game has to offer without having to be a power gamer.

Where do you draw the line?

Amen!

[Ringlord]

Do I have to resort to using all caps to get anyone to pay attention?

This debate should already be over if you had read my previous post to this thread.

Go and listen to the interview courderoyguy does on his DDOCAST with Eladrin ( DDO dev ) and you will hear Eladrin say the devs are not against a respec for changes that really affect a players character build, but there are currently too many technical problems to overcome so they can't do it. Just like they kept quiet about changing evasion until they knew they could work out all the problems for adding Monks to the game they will keep quiet about a total respec until they figure out how to do it, make it a one time deal and allow players to do it without losing tomes they already consumed.

Until then going back and forth about the topic will get you no where.

[Chorus]

Because there is no perfect build.

You'll get your respec and make yet another flawed/boring character and you'll want another one.

Learn to adapt your play style to the changes made to the game. Losing 2 points of UMD on your lvl14 Human Bard is hardly a reason to fully respec your character to a lvl14 Drow Sorcerer. It's just an excuse for a lazy player who doesn't want to put in the hard work to earn a lvl14 Sorc.

Where's your sense of achievement? The pride you feel making a new character and grinding it up to higher and higher levels?

Now instead of making stupid forum challenges to list GOOD reasons to do this or that, take the challenge of creating something special through hard work and good game play.

Too many people making the lame excuse of 'I hardly have time to play, to lvl a new character'. Well then. Seeing as you hardly play, you'll hardly be affected by the changes then.

Back in the old PnP days before AD&D, part of the excitement of the game was playing characters with flaws. You got to roll 3d6 for each ability score and that was it.

Then people wanted the perfect character. Nothing short of 6x18's was good enough. Oh... and don't forget 18/00 for strength. Otherwise the character was gimp. So they started to modify the way characters were rolled. 4d6 and subtract the lowest die. Roll 3 sets of scores and pick the best ones. Roll up your character while no-one is looking and state you rolled fairly.

I can remember when Baldur's gate came out on the pc and spending an hour clicking the reroll button until I got 36+ ability points to distribute.

THERE IS NO PERFECT BUILD. Allowing people to respec once, twice or even 10 times will not solve anything in the long term. All it will do is allow people to take short cuts and skip the learning process.

Maybe Turbine should just allow you to make lvl14 Characters from the outset? Allow you to pick 6 pieces of Raid loot at character generation? Give you a million platinum pieces worth of equipment. 4 Planar Girds, A Chaosgard and a Carniflex or the Scepter of Healing from Invaders. That way, all the people who can only play 2-4 hours a week can experience the best the game has to offer without having to be a power gamer.

Where do you draw the line?


LOL...


Ok so let me sum this up

Yabba's Reasons

1. You should ADAPT to TRUBINES NERFING
2. You'll just make another boring character.
3. So you don't make your bard into a sorc,(I'm not advocationg this, but sure.)because this somehow hurts the game?
4. People will want the perfect build.
5. If you don't play much you'll never notice that your only higher lvl toon is Nerfed.

This is your >>>GOOD<<< reasons?:confused:

See Yabby what a joke your reasons are you just lowered yourslef to the level of Dane now. Sad

Chorus's Reasons

1. Many characters built were hurt by changes done by Turbines sudden decisions to change effects of skills (Sneak and tumble combination for example)
2. With the change to AI many other skills previously worthless are now needed. (Adding trips/knockdowns. My evasion paladin is on his but 95% of the time against lions and dogs)
3. Turbine promised that many existing rules would not be changed. For example Evasion.
4. It's only fair that we are allowed to change our characters if Turbine can change the in game rules.
5. Respec will allow many old and lost faces in game to be brought back again.
6. Are characters will be %100 useful again not %80.
7. For some people, the time it took to get them that one piece of dragon/bound item they could have built 4x lvl 14's.
8. The frustration generated by Turbines constant Nerfing will be reduced/gone given the chance that we can adapt are characters to the new rules.
9. It's heart breaking to see your now nerfed toon reserved as official mule.

[Chorus]

Do I have to resort to using all caps to get anyone to pay attention?

This debate should already be over if you had read my previous post to this thread.

Go and listen to the interview courderoyguy does on his DDOCAST with Eladrin ( DDO dev ) and you will hear Eladrin say the devs are not against a respec for changes that really affect a players character build, but there are currently too many technical problems to overcome so they can't do it. Just like they kept quiet about changing evasion until they knew they could work out all the problems for adding Monks to the game they will keep quiet about a total respec until they figure out how to do it, make it a one time deal and allow players to do it without losing tomes they already consumed.

Until then going back and forth about the topic will get you no where.

Thank you ringlord for this info
I don't expect a character respec will happen over night but it's clear that respec is much desired and needed for the game. By creating this petition/discussion devs can see the pros and cons to respec and it's SO Overwhelmingly on the side of respec. It also creats a fire under the butt of the devs as well.

[noneill]

/signed

[boricua_in_cali]

I'd pay 100K plat to re-roll my tank the way that was suggested, leaving me with ALL my xp, and allowing me to re-train all my skills and such... but I think one of the problems is people then not even going the same route, and all the rangers switching to fighters, and bards switching to sorcerers and such...

still, like I said, I'd pay 100K plat, AND a siberys shard to do such a thing to my onnce-upon-a-time okay, now "busted as a one-wheel wheelchair" fighter

[Chorus]

Amen!

Yes I agree Dane. Now I have two people to laugh about. Why don't you give me some reasons to not allow respec? I'll post your reason next to mine so everyone can compare here side by side.

[Dane_McArdy]

Yes I agree Dane. Now I have two people to laugh about. Why don't you give me some reasons to not allow respec? I'll post your reason next to mine so everyone can compare here side by side.

I already have, several times. Part of the problem seems to be that no one reads the reasons people have posted, you just keep saying, shut up, it doesn' hurt you or the game.

So why bother posting yet another time the reasons?

But I'll tell you what. How about I put you on ignore? That way, when you get points for breaking the CoC, you know it won't be me, cause I won't be reading your posts anymore.

[barecm]

Here is what I do not understand. For those who are so against a respect, what is the big problem with offering one? Will it have an impact your character if you choose not to participate? Will it make other players happy? Will drive people away from the game?

We can argue infinitely about what designates a broken character or just a poorly built one. Does it really matter? If a respec makes a large amount of folks happy, then fine, offer it.

Game mechanics have changed enough where some builds just are not up to snuff anymore. While they maybe be of use, they are not the character'f original intent of use. I can see how others may think that is the fault of building poorly, I see it differently. In PnP rules, you have the entire 1-20 lvl list in front of you. You can build an endgame character knowing that the rule set is static. Currently, we have no definite view of anything beyond lvl 14. That in itself makes it necessary to offer respecs.

Again I ask... what is the big deal if people respec? I have heard no reasoning beyond personal preference to explain why a respec is so wrong.

[Maldini]

Here is what I do not understand. For those who are so against a respect, what is the big problem with offering one? Will it have an impact your character if you choose not to participate? Will it make other players happy? Will drive people away from the game?

We can argue infinitely about what designates a broken character or just a poorly built one. Does it really matter? If a respec makes a large amount of folks happy, then fine, offer it.

Game mechanics have changed enough where some builds just are not up to snuff anymore. While they maybe be of use, they are not the character'f original intent of use. I can see how others may think that is the fault of building poorly, I see it differently. In PnP rules, you have the entire 1-20 lvl list in front of you. You can build an endgame character knowing that the rule set is static. Currently, we have no definite view of anything beyond lvl 14. That in itself makes it necessary to offer respecs.

Again I ask... what is the big deal if people respec? I have heard no reasoning beyond personal preference to explain why a respec is so wrong.


Because some people feel that if THEY don't need to do something, then NOBODY does.

[Dane_McArdy]

Because some people feel that if THEY don't need to do something, then NOBODY does.

Not true at all, at least for me. I have never listed that as a reason. I have said that I don't need a respec, in response to people saying that anyone around long enough would have a character that has been negativly effected by the changes to the game.

Because the arguement is that because the game changed, people need to be able to change their character. That's not true, because there are people that don't feel any need to change their character, no matter what changes have happened.

And even in some of your example, you just want to change ability stats because now you have different values for your character then you used to.

That has nothing to do with changes to the game, and in fact, there hasn't been any changes to how stat abilities work.

[Maldini]

Not true at all. I have never listed that as a reason. I have said that I don't need a respec, in response to people saying that anyone around long enough would have a character that has been negativly effected by the changes to the game.

Because the arguement is that because the game changed, people need to be able to change their character. That's not true, because there are people that don't feel any need to change their character, no matter what changes have happened.

And even in some of your example, you just want to change ability stats because now you have different values for your character then you used to.

That has nothing to do with changes to the game, and in fact, there hasn't been any changes to how stat abilities work.

It doesn't matter the scenario Dane, the argument still holds. They're changing evasion, without giving notice far in advance. So people with evasion due to a few rogue levels need to switch armor types. Because of that, they might need more Dex, but they didn't take into account the fact that Evasion would be changed, and they designed their character around wearing Full Plate.

This isn't an argument about PnP versus DDO. This is an argument about character planning and changes to characters. When nothing is explicitly said by Devs regarding Evasion as being "wrong" and that it will inevitably be changed, people have a certain mindset.

The fact that they made changes that potentially could affect stat point distribution is reason enough to all post-creation ability respec.

Also, I didn't mention you specifically in my post above. Are you paranoid?

This argument does revolved the NEED to change a character. It's about the OPTION to change a character. Just because you or I don't need to change our character, doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

So why limit a respec. Obviously it's been said above that there are technical issues and that the DEV's don't necessarily want a limited respec. Which leads me to believe that if the option was there, they probably would have one.

I think you're in the minority in this argument Dane.

[Megaton_Samurai]

Not true at all. I have never listed that as a reason. I have said that I don't need a respec, in response to people saying that anyone around long enough would have a character that has been negativly effected by the changes to the game.

Because the arguement is that because the game changed, people need to be able to change their character. That's not true, because there are people that don't feel any need to change their character, no matter what changes have happened.

The argument is not that people NEED respecs, it is that they deserve them. If I make a character that is made to do things a certain 'way', and changes are made to make that 'way' impossible or less effective, I deserve a respec; either to make the changes necessary to repair my build or to make a new build altogether if that 'way' is no longer viable or fun for me.


And even in some of your example, you just want to change ability stats because now you have different values for your character then you used to.

That has nothing to do with changes to the game, and in fact, there hasn't been any changes to how stat abilities work.

They may not have changed how abilities work, but they changed how valuable they are to certain builds. For example: they raised search DC and lowered disable DC, placing a greater value on INT and a lesser value on DEX for trap rogues.


This game will never stop changing, and I believe an annual (once a year would satisfy me) respec is in order. I feel that every account should be able to respec a single character from scratch, with just one requirement; the highest level class on that character must maintain at least it's current level after the respec.

[Yabba]

But they change the game more than once a year. How will once a year be good enough?

I think a better system to respecing would be :-

1) Allow all players to create capped xp players from day 1.

This will bring a huge amount of new players into the game. Why should people be forced to grind through low level content? If you want to create a lvl 1 Ftr and grind it out, that's up to you. Don't force everyone to have to do it.

2) Get rid of the favour system.

It's elitist. When creating a new character, we should all have access to the benefits of larger inventory space/bank space, returning arrows, +4 Tools, 10 xtra hp's and the like. We shouldn't be forced to grind out lower content to earn these rewards.

3) Access to 30 pieces of Raid/Uber loot.

What lvl14 Character is worth it's salt without these items? Once rolling up my lvl14 Ftr, I'm hardly going to run Xorian Cipher. It's only lvl8. So I want to be able to choose to have my Chaosgarde and 6 Planar Girds at creation. Not to mention the Sword of Shadows and Black Scale Dragon Plate. I'll also need a Para, Vorpal, Smiter, Banisher & Disruptor.

4) Drop the price tag on scrolls, wands & potions. Make them free.

Some of these items are terribly expensive. The Wizard doesn't want to waste SP's on Haste all the time so he can get free scrolls to do the job. Or we can have free potions and keep ourselves hasted. Not to mention the cost of Bark Skin potions for the times when there's no Ranger in the party. Sure the power gamers can afford these items, but I don't have time to do loot runs to get plat.

5) Make a GOD mode so don't take ANY damage.

All of these suggestions will :-

1) Bring players into the game.

Everyone from day one can experience the highest content of the game. Who wouldn't want to do that?

2) Improve MY gaming experience.

No more loot runs and spending hours in long raids trying to get a chance to roll for a piece of raid loot.

3) Improve the game overall.

More ppl + better characters = better game play experience for everyone.

If you don't won't to make a lvl 14 character with 2000+ favour and heaps of uber loot, then don't. But don't stop the people who want to do it either.

[Chorus]

But they change the game more than once a year. How will once a year be good enough?

I think a better system to respecing would be :-

1) Allow all players to create capped xp players from day 1.

This will bring a huge amount of new players into the game. Why should people be forced to grind through low level content? If you want to create a lvl 1 Ftr and grind it out, that's up to you. Don't force everyone to have to do it.

2) Get rid of the favour system.

It's elitist. When creating a new character, we should all have access to the benefits of larger inventory space/bank space, returning arrows, +4 Tools, 10 xtra hp's and the like. We shouldn't be forced to grind out lower content to earn these rewards.

3) Access to 30 pieces of Raid/Uber loot.

What lvl14 Character is worth it's salt without these items? Once rolling up my lvl14 Ftr, I'm hardly going to run Xorian Cipher. It's only lvl8. So I want to be able to choose to have my Chaosgarde and 6 Planar Girds at creation. Not to mention the Sword of Shadows and Black Scale Dragon Plate. I'll also need a Para, Vorpal, Smiter, Banisher & Disruptor.

4) Drop the price tag on scrolls, wands & potions. Make them free.

Some of these items are terribly expensive. The Wizard doesn't want to waste SP's on Haste all the time so he can get free scrolls to do the job. Or we can have free potions and keep ourselves hasted. Not to mention the cost of Bark Skin potions for the times when there's no Ranger in the party. Sure the power gamers can afford these items, but I don't have time to do loot runs to get plat.

5) Make a GOD mode so don't take ANY damage.

All of these suggestions will :-

1) Bring players into the game.

Everyone from day one can experience the highest content of the game. Who wouldn't want to do that?

2) Improve MY gaming experience.

No more loot runs and spending hours in long raids trying to get a chance to roll for a piece of raid loot.

3) Improve the game overall.

More ppl + better characters = better game play experience for everyone.

If you don't won't to make a lvl 14 character with 2000+ favour and heaps of uber loot, then don't. But don't stop the people who want to do it either.



ROFL...

Best one yet.. anyways to simply answer people are upset about nerfing because it randomly punishes peoples builds....

(Turbine Thinking) Lets nerf a little bit of tanks here... a little bit of rogues there... Lets make this build/race alot better ... then lets take alot away here.

At this point your babling. Also no, your suggestions won't create more players it will do completly the oposite. Sigh... I just give up with you. Your creative ideas will hurt the game, unlike respec which will NOT. You haven't even made a single valid point on why people should not respec. Your getting as bad as Dane at this point.

[Maldini]

Lol. Chorus is my new favorite :)

[Chorus]

Lol. Chorus is my new favorite :)

Hey Maldini while i have you here just wanted to say i made your AC tank build and it rocks!!! Keep posting your killer builds.

[Maldini]

Hey Maldini while i have you here just wanted to say i made your AC tank build and it rocks!!! Keep posting your killer builds.


You mean Krieg? Thanks for the feedback! I like it when people have fun with the builds I design.

[Vinos]

But they change the game more than once a year. How will once a year be good enough?

I think a better system to respecing would be :-

1) Allow all players to create capped xp players from day 1.

This will bring a huge amount of new players into the game. Why should people be forced to grind through low level content? If you want to create a lvl 1 Ftr and grind it out, that's up to you. Don't force everyone to have to do it.

2) Get rid of the favour system.

It's elitist. When creating a new character, we should all have access to the benefits of larger inventory space/bank space, returning arrows, +4 Tools, 10 xtra hp's and the like. We shouldn't be forced to grind out lower content to earn these rewards.

3) Access to 30 pieces of Raid/Uber loot.

What lvl14 Character is worth it's salt without these items? Once rolling up my lvl14 Ftr, I'm hardly going to run Xorian Cipher. It's only lvl8. So I want to be able to choose to have my Chaosgarde and 6 Planar Girds at creation. Not to mention the Sword of Shadows and Black Scale Dragon Plate. I'll also need a Para, Vorpal, Smiter, Banisher & Disruptor.

4) Drop the price tag on scrolls, wands & potions. Make them free.

Some of these items are terribly expensive. The Wizard doesn't want to waste SP's on Haste all the time so he can get free scrolls to do the job. Or we can have free potions and keep ourselves hasted. Not to mention the cost of Bark Skin potions for the times when there's no Ranger in the party. Sure the power gamers can afford these items, but I don't have time to do loot runs to get plat.

5) Make a GOD mode so don't take ANY damage.

All of these suggestions will :-

1) Bring players into the game.

Everyone from day one can experience the highest content of the game. Who wouldn't want to do that?

2) Improve MY gaming experience.

No more loot runs and spending hours in long raids trying to get a chance to roll for a piece of raid loot.

3) Improve the game overall.

More ppl + better characters = better game play experience for everyone.

If you don't won't to make a lvl 14 character with 2000+ favour and heaps of uber loot, then don't. But don't stop the people who want to do it either.

uh... Is this a joke? I can never tell anymore.

[Kevr0123]

But they change the game more than once a year. How will once a year be good enough?

I think a better system to respecing would be :-

1) Allow all players to create capped xp players from day 1.

This will bring a huge amount of new players into the game. Why should people be forced to grind through low level content? If you want to create a lvl 1 Ftr and grind it out, that's up to you. Don't force everyone to have to do it.

2) Get rid of the favour system.

It's elitist. When creating a new character, we should all have access to the benefits of larger inventory space/bank space, returning arrows, +4 Tools, 10 xtra hp's and the like. We shouldn't be forced to grind out lower content to earn these rewards.

3) Access to 30 pieces of Raid/Uber loot.

What lvl14 Character is worth it's salt without these items? Once rolling up my lvl14 Ftr, I'm hardly going to run Xorian Cipher. It's only lvl8. So I want to be able to choose to have my Chaosgarde and 6 Planar Girds at creation. Not to mention the Sword of Shadows and Black Scale Dragon Plate. I'll also need a Para, Vorpal, Smiter, Banisher & Disruptor.

4) Drop the price tag on scrolls, wands & potions. Make them free.

Some of these items are terribly expensive. The Wizard doesn't want to waste SP's on Haste all the time so he can get free scrolls to do the job. Or we can have free potions and keep ourselves hasted. Not to mention the cost of Bark Skin potions for the times when there's no Ranger in the party. Sure the power gamers can afford these items, but I don't have time to do loot runs to get plat.

5) Make a GOD mode so don't take ANY damage.

All of these suggestions will :-

1) Bring players into the game.

Everyone from day one can experience the highest content of the game. Who wouldn't want to do that?

2) Improve MY gaming experience.

No more loot runs and spending hours in long raids trying to get a chance to roll for a piece of raid loot.

3) Improve the game overall.

More ppl + better characters = better game play experience for everyone.

If you don't won't to make a lvl 14 character with 2000+ favour and heaps of uber loot, then don't. But don't stop the people who want to do it either.

This has nothing to do with a respec. People lvl up their characters and put in a great amount of time building their characters. We're not given everything from lvl 1, we're just asking that the time we put in not go to waste because the game developers altar rules which gimp or sometimes destroy a character with no fair warning. People plan out their characters according to rules given. That's how it is in PnP and that's how it is in ddo.

[Yabba]

I think there should be unlimited respecs.

If one person doesn't like respecs, then fine, they don't have to do them. Whether or not another character takes advantage of a respec does not affect anyone else.

I guess this is not a >>>>GOOD<<<< reason.

If one person doesn't want to build a lvl14 character from the outset with 30 pieces of uber loot and 2000+ favour and a million plat, then they don't have to. It does not affect anyone else.

[GlassCannon]

I would like to reset my sorc's stats and skills. Unfortunately she is not that expendable and neither is her gear(bound).

I would like to respec my bard's stats.

I would like to move a few stat points around on my Rangers(both).

I would like to reroll the Skills on my wife's Bbn.

A full respec would be nice. Very nice. The DM I played under in AD&D would allow this. Why doesn't DDO? Of course, said DM would require that any multiclass character sheet be BURNED with FIRE and maybe some gasoline, would not charge my player for the respec, would not require any uber rare drop...

[Yabba]

So I guess 1 respec once a year for 1 character won't be enough for you.

[Kevr0123]

1 respec atm is fine for all the changes that have occured. Just to get a character close to the way i use to play him. If the rules are changed again then i feel another respec should be accesible. I don't understand why you keep talking about a lvl 1 having raid loot. what does that have to do with our forum. we have to work for all of that loot and we lvl'd them up. We're not given that equipment/tomes

[Dane_McArdy]

I would like to reset my sorc's stats and skills. Unfortunately she is not that expendable and neither is her gear(bound).

I would like to respec my bard's stats.

I would like to move a few stat points around on my Rangers(both).

I would like to reroll the Skills on my wife's Bbn.

A full respec would be nice. Very nice. The DM I played under in AD&D would allow this. Why doesn't DDO? Of course, said DM would require that any multiclass character sheet be BURNED with FIRE and maybe some gasoline, would not charge my player for the respec, would not require any uber rare drop...

Could you please explain how they have changed the rules for how stat ability work in the game since launch?

[Ilmater]

Not sure if this was discussed but I would love to change my alignment. That would rock.. I made to many Lawful good char by accident cause I just wasnt patient enough..lol

[Megaton_Samurai]

Could you please explain how they have changed the rules for how stat ability work in the game since launch?

I responded to one of your previous posts already with your answer, here it is again since it seems you missed it.


They may not have changed how abilities work, but they changed how valuable they are to certain builds. For example: they raised search DC and lowered disable DC, placing a greater value on INT and a lesser value on DEX for trap rogues.

[Dane_McArdy]

Not sure if this was discussed but I would love to change my alignment. That would rock.. I made to many Lawful good char by accident cause I just wasnt patient enough..lol

At least you are honest about why you want a respec and aren't claiming you need to respec your alignment because of the evasion change coming.

[Dane_McArdy]

I responded to one of your previous posts already with your answer, here it is again since it seems you missed it.

They may not have changed how abilities work, but they changed how valuable they are to certain builds. For example: they raised search DC and lowered disable DC, placing a greater value on INT and a lesser value on DEX for trap rogues.

Search and Disable device both work on INT for the skill. So if you were a trap finding rogue, you would have had a high INT any way, wouldn't you? Dex affects your reflex save, when you don't disable the trap, or for traps that can't be disabled, like the lightning in VON5 and the spikes you have to go through to get to the control boxes.

Since search DC for traps were so low, most people didn't bother putting that much into the skill. They put in just enough, and boosted with items. They maxed out DD so to be able to disable any trap.

Well now that the DC for searching is higher, with the Disble lowered. But you first need to find the trap don't you? So those that build characters that max out something at the cost of something else do have trouble.

So what they really need is a skill respec, which yeah, that could be needed. Much like the enhancement one has been done, because now there have been enough changes put in with skills that it wouldn't be bad. Even mroe so if the coming crafting requires skills to do.

If you build your characters in such a way that the slightest change throws them out of wack, no amount of respecing will fix that. Because people that do that will continue to do that.

Take you example of trap search DCs being raised, and now rogues that never put enough skill points into it, or took anything to boost it can't find traps so they can disable them. What if they hadn't done that? What if they had decided that going forward, to simply start raising the search DC of traps. Then what? Would you ask for a respec because the new content doesn't match how you built your character? That before they made traps with low search DCs, and now they are too high because you ignored the search skill for 14 levels?

They have always said, build good characters, and you really shouldn't be effected by changes dramatically. They have said, if you are going to build characters so specifically, you are always going to do that, and they don't make the game with that percentage of players as their main focus.

[Megaton_Samurai]

Search and Disable device both work on INT for the skill.

Well $#!@.

[Cinwulf]

I agree, they really should offer full respecs.

[Hammersong]

Just a question: if the fundamental mechanics of the game changes, is it the right thing to do to allow people to change their characters to compensate? It's an easy YES or NO answer.

The developers of CoH publicly stated that it's not fair to their players to build characters with one set of rules and then, if those rules change, to NOT allow them to change as well. That's why they developed a respec system and usually give out free respecs whenever they have a major game change. It's the right thing to do and it keeps their player base happy (which means they'll keep playing).

[Cinwulf]

Just a question: if the fundamental mechanics of the game changes, is it the right thing to do to allow people to change their characters to compensate? It's an easy YES or NO answer.

The developers of CoH publicly stated that it's not fair to their players to build characters with one set of rules and then, if those rules change, to NOT allow them to change as well. That's why they developed a respec system and usually give out free respecs whenever they have a major game change. It's the right thing to do and it keeps their player base happy (which means they'll keep playing).


Exactly!

[Megaton_Samurai]

Take you example of trap search DCs being raised, and now rogues that never put enough skill points into it, or took anything to boost it can't find traps so they can disable them. What if they hadn't done that? What if they had decided that going forward, to simply start raising the search DC of traps. Then what? Would you ask for a respec because the new content doesn't match how you built your character? That before they made traps with low search DCs, and now they are too high because you ignored the search skill for 14 levels?

Ok, what if you made a human rogue with low INT. He did fine though, because with feats, action boost and human versatility he could still find all the traps. Now human versatility does nothing for him. Maybe now he wishes he could have more INT to make up for his loss of trap finding ability.

Maybe that rogue actually has high INT. Maybe he's a trap-finding monster that could find even the most difficult traps. With the loss of human versatility, he is no longer at the top of his game. He needs to be an elf now to have a search as good as he had before. Humans straight up lost an ability. GONE. That is a very big deal. He should be allowed to change races in this case.

[barecm]

Not true at all, at least for me. I have never listed that as a reason. I have said that I don't need a respec, in response to people saying that anyone around long enough would have a character that has been negativly effected by the changes to the game.

Because the arguement is that because the game changed, people need to be able to change their character. That's not true, because there are people that don't feel any need to change their character, no matter what changes have happened.

And even in some of your example, you just want to change ability stats because now you have different values for your character then you used to.

That has nothing to do with changes to the game, and in fact, there hasn't been any changes to how stat abilities work.

Ok, so what are the reasons that there should not be a respec made available to players? I still have not read why a respec should not be offered. If there is a game breaking point that I am missing, by all means let me know. I always feel that if a logical counterpoint is brought up, a stronger solution can be worked out.

However, I have not seen much beyond personal preference and statements like "my build is great" and "your build stinks" or "you built a bad character, deal with it". And yes, maybe someone didn't know what they were doing and made a mistake. Maybe they didn't realize that mistake until months later. How would letting this person fix their mistake possibly be bad?

[Stonewall]

Would love to see a 1 time full respec added to this game and I bet Turbine fully knows this issue is becoming a very big deal with many customers.

I bet a one time respecs will be comming soon enough. I could be wrong but a happy player is a paying player. It's really that simple. :eek:

[Dane_McArdy]

Ok, what if you made a human rogue with low INT. He did fine though, because with feats, action boost and human versatility he could still find all the traps. Now human versatility does nothing for him. Maybe now he wishes he could have more INT to make up for his loss of trap finding ability.

Maybe that rogue actually has high INT. Maybe he's a trap-finding monster that could find even the most difficult traps. With the loss of human versatility, he is no longer at the top of his game. He needs to be an elf now to have a search as good as he had before. Humans straight up lost an ability. GONE. That is a very big deal. He should be allowed to change races in this case.

In other words, he sacrificed his ability to find traps, because rather then make a good well rounded rogue, he decided he could get all the benefits without having to take INT, the main skill behind both.

Even if they hadn't changed HV, eventually, his lack of INT would have come into play. The static +5 HV gave wouldn't be enough once we start getting into the high level dungeons of level 16 and up. Since he shorted himself early on, he feels the effect later on. That would have happened even if they hadn't changed HV.

In your second situation, the player maxed out those skills every way possible, and the changes lowered his score, he's still maxxed out. He does not need to change races to be at the top of his score to take advantage of the elven +2 to search. The trap DCs aren't set based on the highest possible skill a player can get. The devs have said that over and over.

In paper, dungeons are built around the players abilities, which are known by the DM. That really can't happen here, can it?

DnD is not about eliminating failure. That is why there are dice rolls. That is why a 1 is always a miss for combat, and a failure for saves, and a 20 is always success for those. That is why there are dice rolls.

And that is why DDO will always be tweaked and balanced. Part of the challenge is luck. You rolled lucky and succeeded. So when the game starts getting to the point where players can make it so they ALWAYS succeed, there needs to be rebalancing. There should always be a small chance for failure, when adventuring in appropriate level dungeons. Even if that chance is just 5%.

People that build characters to try and eliminate even the slightest chance of failure, are always going to face this issue when ever there is a change, good or bad to the game.

If you dont' try and do this, and build good characters, that have a high chance of success, and accept occasional failure as a possiblity of playing the game, you will always have a character that is good, and will seldom be hurt to the point of being unplayable when a change does happen.

It's because of those kinds of thinking, Lets try and make it failsafe, that balancing keeps happening. Since Turbine can't make people play a certain way, all they can do is keep rebalancing the game, to keep it a challenge.

And that is the main reason people want to respec. To try and find a new way to make their character have as close to a 100% success rate in whatever they feel they need it in. And that's often what Turbine is trying to prevent when they balance. And if any reason is needed for why a total respec isn't good for the game that is it right there.

[Megaton_Samurai]

In your second situation, the player maxed out those skills every way possible, and the changes lowered his score, he's still maxxed out. He does not need to change races to be at the top of his score to take advantage of the elven +2 to search. The trap DCs aren't set based on the highest possible skill a player can get. The devs have said that over and over.

Elves get a search enhancement as well, so yes, to top out he does need to change races. Humans straight up have lower caps now.

[Hammersong]

DnD is not about eliminating failure. That is why there are dice rolls. That is why a 1 is always a miss for combat, and a failure for saves, and a 20 is always success for those. That is why there are dice rolls.

And that is why DDO will always be tweaked and balanced. Part of the challenge is luck. You rolled lucky and succeeded. So when the game starts getting to the point where players can make it so they ALWAYS succeed, there needs to be rebalancing. There should always be a small chance for failure, when adventuring in appropriate level dungeons. Even if that chance is just 5%.

Except, of course, in DDO there are several occasions where there are no die rolls. Search and Spot are based on thresholds. Either you have enough in the skill to find/spot the target or you don't.

If people built characters using one set of rules, be it Human Versatility or a knowledge of level 1-10 quests, and then those rules change, it's only fair to give them a chance to remake their character.

If WotC made a major rules clarification or change to the PnP game, be it in a feat, skill, spell, etc, then any responsible DM would allow their players to also change.

[Dane_McArdy]

Elves get a search enhancement as well, so yes, to top out he does need to change races. Humans straight up have lower caps now.

Who cares? The search DC traps are not set based on these kinds of bonus. You don't have to top out the skill to play the game.

A human can get a good enough search to be a viable rogue. There are enough modifiers for them to be effective.

It again comes down to making a good build. And again, your example seems to be, lets get to 100%, which is what they are against.

[barecm]

In other words, he sacrificed his ability to find traps, because rather then make a good well rounded rogue, he decided he could get all the benefits without having to take INT, the main skill behind both.

Even if they hadn't changed HV, eventually, his lack of INT would have come into play. The static +5 HV gave wouldn't be enough once we start getting into the high level dungeons of level 16 and up. Since he shorted himself early on, he feels the effect later on. That would have happened even if they hadn't changed HV.

In your second situation, the player maxed out those skills every way possible, and the changes lowered his score, he's still maxxed out. He does not need to change races to be at the top of his score to take advantage of the elven +2 to search. The trap DCs aren't set based on the highest possible skill a player can get. The devs have said that over and over.

In paper, dungeons are built around the players abilities, which are known by the DM. That really can't happen here, can it?

DnD is not about eliminating failure. That is why there are dice rolls. That is why a 1 is always a miss for combat, and a failure for saves, and a 20 is always success for those. That is why there are dice rolls.

And that is why DDO will always be tweaked and balanced. Part of the challenge is luck. You rolled lucky and succeeded. So when the game starts getting to the point where players can make it so they ALWAYS succeed, there needs to be rebalancing. There should always be a small chance for failure, when adventuring in appropriate level dungeons. Even if that chance is just 5%.

People that build characters to try and eliminate even the slightest chance of failure, are always going to face this issue when ever there is a change, good or bad to the game.

If you dont' try and do this, and build good characters, that have a high chance of success, but accept failure as a possiblity of playing the game, you will always have a character that is good, and will seldom be hurt to the point of being unplayable when a change does happen.

It's because of those kinds of thinking, Lets try and make it failsafe, that balancing keeps happening. Since Turbine can't make people play a certain way, all they can do is keep rebalancing the game, to keep it a challenge.

And that is the main reason people want to respec. To try and find a new way to make their character have as close to a 100% success rate in whatever they feel they need it in. And that's often what Turbine is trying to prevent when they balance. And if any reason is needed for why a total respec isn't good for the game that is it right there.

So what you are saying is that when characters usefulness drops as this game matures is the way Turbine intended it? The balance of this game relies on people building toons incorrectly, making mistakes or having nerfs (that make their builds less effective)? If so, I need to find a new game. I obviously disagree with your reasoning, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Ever think that perhaps the ease of this game is more due to improper testing of the new quests? How could you design something like PoP or the way cloud kill currently works? I could take ANY caster or UMD user and defeat a healthy percent of the quests with cloud kill. So, because of this poor planning, nerfs and changes have to be rolled out. Now, people have to change their builds because what they thought were the rules have changed. It is not the players fault for building toons to the best of their abilities, it the the fault of Turbine for not being able to see the vast holes in the system PRIOR to rolling out the game.

[Dane_McArdy]

Except, of course, in DDO there are several occasions where there are no die rolls. Search and Spot are based on thresholds. Either you have enough in the skill to find/spot the target or you don't.

If people built characters using one set of rules, be it Human Versatility or a knowledge of level 1-10 quests, and then those rules change, it's only fair to give them a chance to remake their character.

If WotC made a major rules clarification or change to the PnP game, be it in a feat, skill, spell, etc, then any responsible DM would allow their players to also change.

You are saying that there are traps, where you never get a roll to search if your search skill is too low? Under that assumtion if a person built their character to have just enough search to be with in that threshold, and lost a few points, again, that person gimped their character before any changes, because they decided that having only a 5% chance to find a trap was good enough, because you can just keep hitting search untill you find it.

I guess you never downloaded any of the errata which clarifies rules and such for the paper game from their site?

And yes, if an aspect of the paper game changed, a good DM would allow it. So far, the stat abilities have worked the same for many years, and haven't changed. In so many of these examples seemed fixed on changing ability scores, or race, to try and once again max out skills, none of those have changed in paper, have they?

Request for respecs are because Turbine changed the game, changed the rules. When asked for examples on how Turbine changed the rules for stats, I get examples of people wanting to rearrange stats to get higher bonus' on skills. Why? To get back to close as 100% success rate as possible. Turbine doesn't want that in the game, which is why they rebalance things, because part of the challenge is being able to fail sometimes.

So far, no one has given a good example of how the rules for ability stats have change such to support a total respec. All they have given is examples of how they built a character, and now don't like it.

[Hammersong]

And yes, if an aspect of the paper game changed, a good DM would allow it. So far, the stat abilities have worked the same for many years, and haven't changed. In so many of these examples seemed fixed on changing ability scores, or race, to try and once again max out skills, none of those have changed in paper, have they?

To me it's not so much about the stats, but the skills. But, of course, those are tied together.

And it's not just about having a 100% success rate. There are some cases, like Search and Spot, where it's either 0% success or 100% success.

And you haven't addressed the basic premise that, if the game mechanics change, is it the right thing to do to allow players to change as well? That is more of a developer-game-philosophy issue (i.e. an issue of fairness).

[Pellegro]

And you haven't addressed the basic premise that, if the game mechanics change, is it the right thing to do to allow players to change as well? That is more of a developer-game-philosophy issue (i.e. an issue of fairness).

And if you read back a few pages, apparently in a DDOcast, one of the developers expressed that they are not against a respec, but simply don't have the tech to pull it off. I assume it has something to do with tomes or such, but who knows really.

So I think this debate is really kinda over before it began, because even the DEVs apparently are AOK with a respec. The problem is, how?

Given teh amount of energy being spent on this, I'd love to see the coders/devs post the core issue(s). Who knows, maybe some brainy player here can help solve it, or at least come up with an acceptable workaround (e.g. you lose your tomes).

[Dane_McArdy]

To me it's not so much about the stats, but the skills. But, of course, those are tied together.

And it's not just about having a 100% success rate. There are some cases, like Search and Spot, where it's either 0% success or 100% success.

And you haven't addressed the basic premise that, if the game mechanics change, is it the right thing to do to allow players to change as well? That is more of a developer-game-philosophy issue (i.e. an issue of fairness).

I have addressed. There is a respec for feats in the game. There is one for spells for classes like bards and sorcerers. There is a very resonable respec for enhancments, which for one cost, allows you to redo the whole thing.

I expect a respec for skills to be put into the game.

And there is nothing wrong with those respecs.

But players that opt to not raise skills with abilities, which is a way of having good skills scores, will never change. Abilities and the bonus' they give will not change. Which seems to be the base of the arguement. Some one figured they could get away with ignoring the main ability of the skill in question, because they were trying to max out as much as they can.

Changes or not, you can still do that you can still build a character with misallocated ability stats. And while it would be nice to fix that, blaming Turbine for changes to the game, which haven't had anything to do with ability stats doesn't support needing a respec.

[Dane_McArdy]

And if you read back a few pages, apparently in a DDOcast, one of the developers expressed that they are not against a respec, but simply don't have the tech to pull it off. I assume it has something to do with tomes or such, but who knows really.

So I think this debate is really kinda over before it began, because even the DEVs apparently are AOK with a respec. The problem is, how?

Given teh amount of energy being spent on this, I'd love to see the coders/devs post the core issue(s). Who knows, maybe some brainy player here can help solve it, or at least come up with an acceptable workaround (e.g. you lose your tomes).

I haven't listend to that in full, it keeps cutting out. But what was said here is that dev's aren't against respecs, where the game changes and grows. Neither am I. But that's not what people are really asking for, and not why people really want respecs, where they get to keep tomes and favor and such.

[Ringlord]

Maldini and Cowdenicus you are the ones who don't read well. I read your post Maldini as saying you did not have enough time to re-level 5 L14 characters because that is what your post said. It did not have a qualifying statement saying you personally do not have that many capped characters. No you did not say that part.

As to forcing anyone to reroll that is 100% pure BS since no change has made a character so unplayable they could not still hit mobs and cause damage. Yes it may have lowered those numbers, but it did not make the character completely useless. That is 100% a matter of the players perception of their character. I have 1 main character at L11.2 and 3 alts I almost never play and 1 mule and have never re-rolled and have not needed to.

Now another part you two, and it seems many others have failed to read since I posted it the first time. Go listen to the most recent DDO Cast and the interview with Eladrin. Eladrin says the devs are not against a respec opption, but there are currently TOO MANY TECHNICAL ISSUES for them to put one in.
As I said I bet you just like they waited until they had figured out all the issues for adding Monks before they moved to fix evasion they will wait until they fix the issues preventing the respec people are asking for before they offer one.

It is not just a simple matter of players asking for it so the devs better come up with a way to do it. Until you spend time actually working with the code for DDO and can say from first hand experience how hard or difficult it is to do I will take the word of a dev who did.

[Dane_McArdy]

Maldini and Cowdenicus you are the ones who don't read well. I read your post Maldini as saying you did not have enough time to re-level 5 L14 characters because that is what your post said. It did not have a qualifying statement saying you personally do not have that many capped characters. No you did not say that part.

As to forcing anyone to reroll that is 100% pure BS since no change has made a character so unplayable they could not still hit mobs and cause damage. Yes it may have lowered those numbers, but it did not make the character completely useless. That is 100% a matter of the players perception of their character. I have 1 main character at L11.2 and 3 alts I almost never play and 1 mule and have never re-rolled and have not needed to.

Now another part you two, and it seems many others have failed to read since I posted it the first time. Go listen to the most recent DDO Cast and the interview with Eladrin. Eladrin says the devs are not against a respec opption, but there are currently TOO MANY TECHNICAL ISSUES for them to put one in.
As I said I bet you just like they waited until they had figured out all the issues for adding Monks before they moved to fix evasion they will wait until they fix the issues preventing the respec people are asking for before they offer one.

It is not just a simple matter of players asking for it so the devs better come up with a way to do it. Until you spend time actually working with the code for DDO and can say from first hand experience how hard or difficult it is to do I will take the word of a dev who did.

To be honest, I can't see them ever putting in a total respec option. After all that would make all the work they did for putting in feat/spell/enhancement respecing to waste. I can see a skill respec coming down the road. Cause skills will and have changed slightly, some skills are being used better, like swim.

Unless total respec had favor or level requirements to do so.

[Pellegro]

The last time this debate came up someone posted another suggestion in lieu of total respec, but to get at the same basic idea --

Allow players, once they reach a certain milestone (favor, whatever) to destroy their character and transfer all their inventory to a new character, including tomes and bound stuff, who starts at level 10. As with regular character creation, you can't eat a tome until after you're created (so no tome effects from lvls 1-10).

There is some cost to doing it since you lose out on all xp you've obtained post lvl 10 (and since you have to delete the old guy), and you can't get the extra skill point(s) that you may have gotten otherwise by eating that int tome at lvl 1, but it would permit those who feel that a change has gimped them to perform a semi-functional reroll.

[Dane_McArdy]

The last time this debate came up someone posted another suggestion in lieu of total respec, but to get at the same basic idea --

Allow players, once they reach a certain milestone (favor, whatever) to destroy their character and transfer all their inventory to a new character, including tomes and bound stuff, who starts at level 10. As with regular character creation, you can't eat a tome until after you're created (so no tome effects from lvls 1-10).

There is some cost to doing it since you lose out on all xp you've obtained post lvl 10 (and since you have to delete the old guy), and you can't get the extra skill point(s) that you may have gotten otherwise by eating that int tome at lvl 1, but it would permit those who feel that a change has gimped them to perform a semi-functional reroll.

People do realize that tomes lose their magical effect once read? Right? So using a tome makes it a regular book. It's pretty standard and has been like that for a long time.

The magic is spent. The tome is defunct.

[Pellegro]

People do realize that tomes lose their magical effect once read? Right? So using a tome makes it a regular book. It's pretty standard and has been like that for a long time.

The magic is spent. The tome is defunct.

Oh yeah, right. Silly me, thinking that a magical book could be read twice when killing someone off and then recreating them at a different level.

I have a hard time keeping straight which aspects of our fictional world can be tweaked and which ones can't.

[Dane_McArdy]

Oh yeah, right. Silly me, thinking that a magical book could be read twice when killing someone off and then recreating them at a different level.

I have a hard time keeping straight which aspects of our fictional world can be tweaked and which ones can't.

Well then shame on you for not knowing how those books work!

[renegade117]

I think that players that feel like they've been gimped should get 1 full respec... Time invested in the game would feel wasted for someone who felt that their Character was messed up because they planed and built it according to the rules they had. Then the rules changed, and nothing was done to fix what was messed up. And I don't care if the character is still "playable" he just sux. That makes 'em feel much better about it I'm sure!


I also believe that the 28 point build should at the proper favor, be able to be a 32 for those of us that do not have the time to re-roll. I don't care if the 28 is still "playable" he just sux compared to the same spec 32 (especially multi-class), that does not make it right. We still pay the exact amount and take up less server time:p .

The now "not quite as good or fun, because the rules changed" toon should be allowed the respect. That would be the right thing to do...

[anden]

Rerolling two lvl 14 chars cause of the enhancement thing. Still have them only till i get enough lvls to pass items. (to bad bound items can't be traded within my account.

[MathGeek]

I'd also like to be able to change my starting stats and race.

Then I could respec my Drow Wizard 14 into a Dwarf Barbarian 14. :rolleyes:


P.S. For some extra cash, you can even change your character's name.

P.P.S. You can't respec everything you want, but you can respect everything you want. :)

[Nexmal]

/sign

[TheDoctor]

It would really save a lot of effort, bound item loss, tome loss, portable hole loss etc.

[QuantumFX]

"But if they allow respec no-one will play a caster cause people can UMD scrolls"

- First, this isn't a discussion on UMD. 2nd why would any arcane caster capable of doing 200 damage per tick with Wall of Fire respec to use scrolls capable of doing a maximum of 20 points per tick?


"But if they allow respec all the <insert class/build here> are going to be rerolled as <insert other class/build here>"

- While I do believe some players may reroll their PC's in this manner it's highly unlikely that they would get any advantage out of it. Static rewards are chosen with specific classes in mind. Generally, raid gear isn't given out to classes that can't use it.

DDO is a team game. Every class/build has a place where it shines and a place where it sucks. The "Uber Build" is a myth. The "Batman" had specific advantages and specific drawbacks that a lot of players didn't know how to utilize. The majority of people will be respeccing out problems that have cropped up with their builds.

A respec of this magnitude isn't unheard of in P&P. Just look at the conversion from AD&D 2.0 to D&D 3.0. In the Faiths of Faerun section of Dragon magazine WotC advocated using multclass combos to mimic the abilities of the specailty priests in AD&D 2. My Half-elven 8 Fighter/12 Holy Strategist became a 2 Paladin/2 Fighter/12 Cleric because it was the only way to keep flavor of the PC. My Rogue/Goldeye priest got respecced twice because of the change to D&D 3.0 then the actual release of the 3.0 Goldeye PrC. Fortunately we had an excuse to my PC to make the 2nd respec. (He ran through "For Duty and Deity" and Waukeen made him the campaign's first new Goldeye.)


"You're character is now only 80% as effective therefore you should be happy and ****."
- This argument just proves you're an egotist. You think that the misery of others is a great way to puff yourself up cause you're happy with your character. People have specific goals with builds. If the character no longer meets those goals the fun of playing the character is sucked out of it.
I have had members of my guild leave DDO because they felt they were going to be forced to reroll every 3 months. A person that I enjoyed questing with has left the game. How does this make DDO "More Fun"???


"Turbine says that it's too hard to code"

- Oh you mean like how hard it was to code a fix to evasion in light armor? I seem to remember a lead developer saying that there were too many technical issues involved to fix that. But here we are in mod 4.1 and... OMG they fixed it!!!!


"They'll just respec around any tomes they've picked up"

- Thanks to the new enhancement system they already can.


"It will ruin the DDO stability of players because everyone is used to that someone being a specific class."

- If the character were simply rerolled it would do the same if not more damage. When I rerolled my 1 Rogue/11 Ranger my guild actively missed me playing the rogue role in the party. For a month and a half they had to depend on PuG rogues because my character was unavailable.

Second, most people want the respec to rebuild their characters to do their old jobs but take advantage of the new enhancement system. My 32 point Human 1 Rogue/11 Ranger got absolutely screwed with the new enhancement system. Anything he could do a drow could now do better. Because no one was intelligent enough to include a respec system into the game at launch I'm not allowed to remake him so he could take advantage of the human enhancements.

[barecm]

"But if they allow respec no-one will play a caster cause people can UMD scrolls"

- First, this isn't a discussion on UMD. 2nd why would any arcane caster capable of doing 200 damage per tick with Wall of Fire respec to use scrolls capable of doing a maximum of 20 points per tick?


"But if they allow respec all the <insert class/build here> are going to be rerolled as <insert other class/build here>"

- While I do believe some players may reroll their PC's in this manner it's highly unlikely that they would get any advantage out of it. Static rewards are chosen with specific classes in mind. Generally, raid gear isn't given out to classes that can't use it.

DDO is a team game. Every class/build has a place where it shines and a place where it sucks. The "Uber Build" is a myth. The "Batman" had specific advantages and specific drawbacks that a lot of players didn't know how to utilize. The majority of people will be respeccing out problems that have cropped up with their builds.

A respec of this magnitude isn't unheard of in P&P. Just look at the conversion from AD&D 2.0 to D&D 3.0. In the Faiths of Faerun section of Dragon magazine WotC advocated using multclass combos to mimic the abilities of the specailty priests in AD&D 2. My Half-elven 8 Fighter/12 Holy Strategist became a 2 Paladin/2 Fighter/12 Cleric because it was the only way to keep flavor of the PC. My Rogue/Goldeye priest got respecced twice because of the change to D&D 3.0 then the actual release of the 3.0 Goldeye PrC. Fortunately we had an excuse to my PC to make the 2nd respec. (He ran through "For Duty and Deity" and Waukeen made him the campaign's first new Goldeye.)


"You're character is now only 80% as effective therefore you should be happy and ****."
- This argument just proves you're an egotist. You think that the misery of others is a great way to puff yourself up cause you're happy with your character. People have specific goals with builds. If the character no longer meets those goals the fun of playing the character is sucked out of it.
I have had members of my guild leave DDO because they felt they were going to be forced to reroll every 3 months. A person that I enjoyed questing with has left the game. How does this make DDO "More Fun"???


"Turbine says that it's too hard to code"

- Oh you mean like how hard it was to code a fix to evasion in light armor? I seem to remember a lead developer saying that there were too many technical issues involved to fix that. But here we are in mod 4.1 and... OMG they fixed it!!!!


"They'll just respec around any tomes they've picked up"

- Thanks to the new enhancement system they already can.


"It will ruin the DDO stability of players because everyone is used to that someone being a specific class."

- If the character were simply rerolled it would do the same if not more damage. When I rerolled my 1 Rogue/11 Ranger my guild actively missed me playing the rogue role in the party. For a month and a half they had to depend on PuG rogues because my character was unavailable.

Second, most people want the respec to rebuild their characters to do their old jobs but take advantage of the new enhancement system. My 32 point Human 1 Rogue/11 Ranger got absolutely screwed with the new enhancement system. Anything he could do a drow could now do better. Because no one was intelligent enough to include a respec system into the game at launch I'm not allowed to remake him so he could take advantage of the human enhancements.

I could not agree with you more. I would sum up my feelings as this:

Because of a lack of planning, foresight, testing or whatever you want to call it, Turbine is forced to make changes to the game to prevent people from exhuasting the new content within hours of them releasing it. Additionally, the changes that are made to the game often affect the rules and guidelines that we have been living by and creating our characters by. Now, to change the rules and aspects of the game every month (or so it seems) is just too much to ask for everyone to maintain the viability of all of their characters. Again, there are those who are defending the changes calling them "necessary to balance the game" and to "make it more challenging". I say, how about rolling out a finished product in the first place that doesn't need all these changes? I can understand some fixes here and there, but what we have seen over the course of 1 year + are massive changes to the core systems (feats, enhancements and skills) of the game. No full respec has even been hinted at. I am sure there are those who like where their toons are at, and yes, I have one toon that has been pretty much untouched by the changes. However, I do not think that a respec would be bad at all. In fact, maybe it will stave off some of the defections that are assuridly going to happen when this next patch is rolled out.

[Drak]

While happy with most of my characters. Some changes have made me want them changed, and with all my raid loot, rerolling is NOT an option ...
eg

Swim was always a pointless skill, but with crucible, I might have considered a few points in said skill.

I have heard talk of pure classes and "epic damage". that will completely screw my fighter (being 1 pally/ 13fight)

I also used stat points in dex (or was it con) to even out stats when I only had +3 items (yes it was back when i was a real noob) too late now, but that mistake I can live with, it was my fault.

There are more but nuff said for now

P.S yes this is a vote for a free respec from L1

[Fallout]

Wow I was gone for 3 months and miss my favorite topic.

/SIGNED/

[Mourning_Star]

No, not needed.

I'm asking that all petition threads be autodeleted.

Should I make petition for that :)

Maybe there could be a sticky for people who want to whine about respec. The first post should read. "Respec: NFW."
I think people should be grateful they can respec as much as they do.

[katanaflame]

have you not figured out yet they do this stuff to keep you playing.
if you have every thing your way and get everything you want you will beat everything get bored complain about no content and quit and go to another game.

The nerf you get mad reroll to prove Ill show them they keep taking your money and you stay here.


so if you want to drive your point home a mass cancalation of accounts would get there attention hit them where it hurts the bank no money means devs loss jobs.

see the funny thing is they know what we want but they do this so I belive that would send a clear message

[Fallout]

Should I make petition for that :)

Maybe there could be a sticky for people who want to whine about respec. The first post should read. "Respec: NFW."
I think people should be grateful they can respec as much as they do.

We should be greatful? Au contrair. Turbine should be greatful that some of us came back to check the game out. They made changes that impacted our characters. Feat/Enhacement respec only covers some cases, not others.

It is also OPTIONAL. That seems to be the keyword alot of people don't get. You don't need it, don't use it.

Afraid of Wizard Joe Blo be a totally different guy? Whats the difference to you that he deleted his character and created with the same name vs he retrained? To you he's Joe Blo. But to Joe he's happier.

[Aethene]

Rarely is there a poster i disagree with more than Mr. McArdy.

I find there is need for a full respec. The game has gone through several vast and sweeping changes thta has all but destroyed sveral builds. Now some of these changes we were told would not be changed (like evasion a long time ago), some were just sprung on us liem the HV change, some were part of balancing (though the game seems more unbalanced than ever: go dwarves!). Some of us have toons we've played for a year, filled with blood,sweat, tears, and bound raid items.
If they make such masive changes to the game dynamic it seems wrong that it should force us to redo the countless hours we've put into our toons.


Oh, and Mr. McArdy, you don't wan't to respec.... then don't. I do. We both pay. Turbine has, through short-sightedness for whatever reason, managed to create soem serious issues. This would go a step to right some of the wrongs, especially for more casual players that may have spent a long time working on their toons.

[Emili]

You are saying that there are traps, where you never get a roll to search if your search skill is too low? Under that assumtion if a person built their character to have just enough search to be with in that threshold, and lost a few points, again, that person gimped their character before any changes, because they decided that having only a 5% chance to find a trap was good enough, because you can just keep hitting search untill you find it.

I guess you never downloaded any of the errata which clarifies rules and such for the paper game from their site?

And yes, if an aspect of the paper game changed, a good DM would allow it. So far, the stat abilities have worked the same for many years, and haven't changed. In so many of these examples seemed fixed on changing ability scores, or race, to try and once again max out skills, none of those have changed in paper, have they?

Request for respecs are because Turbine changed the game, changed the rules. When asked for examples on how Turbine changed the rules for stats, I get examples of people wanting to rearrange stats to get higher bonus' on skills. Why? To get back to close as 100% success rate as possible. Turbine doesn't want that in the game, which is why they rebalance things, because part of the challenge is being able to fail sometimes.

So far, no one has given a good example of how the rules for ability stats have change such to support a total respec. All they have given is examples of how they built a character, and now don't like it.

There are no rolls for spot or search... just your flat out skill of which every rogue i know takes full ranks. As I remember when gianthold first came out I remember many rogues I met had problems because turbine raise the spot/search DC's everywhere to nearer the top and lowered the disarm. I do not think for as many as I met that they were all min/maxing. It forced many a rogue to respec feats and even then some were short due to items and real knowledge of what the numbers they needed were... only to come up short again... even those who were well rounded where sratching their heads. Either their Int was down by a point or they just lacked lvl items and buffs.

Coming back to the skills I had noticed how they recalibrate skills often just on my fighters alone... I spot mob less now with a higher spot than earlier mods and I do not jump as high (with a higher jump) as I used to in earlier mods... So I need a jump buff to grab a ladder I could do before without one at max skill...

[Tiblorian]

Turbines aoe scroll change and evasion change made me leave the game, is there anyone that came back to the game because of these? Its just more signs of turbine's incompetence.

[krud]

I don't have time to read everything in here, but i was wondering...

What kind of reflex save do you have if you've only got enough dex to max out full plate? Does pally cha contribute enough to make up for a low dex. Evasion is kind of worthless without the reflex save to go along with it.

[Cinwulf]

I could not agree with you more. I would sum up my feelings as this:

Because of a lack of planning, foresight, testing or whatever you want to call it, Turbine is forced to make changes to the game to prevent people from exhuasting the new content within hours of them releasing it. Additionally, the changes that are made to the game often affect the rules and guidelines that we have been living by and creating our characters by. Now, to change the rules and aspects of the game every month (or so it seems) is just too much to ask for everyone to maintain the viability of all of their characters. Again, there are those who are defending the changes calling them "necessary to balance the game" and to "make it more challenging". I say, how about rolling out a finished product in the first place that doesn't need all these changes? I can understand some fixes here and there, but what we have seen over the course of 1 year + are massive changes to the core systems (feats, enhancements and skills) of the game. No full respec has even been hinted at. I am sure there are those who like where their toons are at, and yes, I have one toon that has been pretty much untouched by the changes. However, I do not think that a respec would be bad at all. In fact, maybe it will stave off some of the defections that are assuridly going to happen when this next patch is rolled out.

ditto

[Aspenor]

I would not be against this, but I don't see it happening.

[Jaysensen]

One idea is to make it pay for full respec, which many of us would do.

What about making new shard types for partial respecs. Feats have a Shard. Maybe Skills and Stat points have other Shards. Raid or rare drops maybe?

Respeccing is a feature of most MMORPGS. But there is always some sort of cost. Those of us who want respec would be happy to quest or chase items for the right to make us enjoy our characters more.

[Ladywolf]

respec respec AND give old founders 32 skill points!

[Lehrman]

I have nerfed toons that are slated for perma-death, but ultimately it does not matter. You can only loot run for so long before it gets boring and with a level cap that rises slowly and turbine's inability to get new modules and patches performed by their "coming in..." dates, there really is nothing much to do. Ok, you can run pop 16 or so times with each of your toons, then maze, then cabal, then start over in a week...or you can reroll that gimp. I find that capping the xp on a new toon takes about 80 hours of game time, less if he is twinked. A full respec would be great, I would love it, but ultimately, you work within the boundaries of the system you are in, or you can whine about the system and waste enough time posting and reposting to have been able to have leveled to 14 with all of your gimps.

[Sue_Dark]

/not signed


We dont need respec, we need people to stop being greedy. Oh dear, something changed and now your once uberleet whatchmajig cant kill everyone and do everything while the rest of the party plays cards in the entryway. There is a neat little button on the character selection screen, the "Delete" button. Learn to use it when you are not happy with a character and you'll de-clutter these forums, and maybe as a side result find a new uberleet thingamajig to make you happy until the next "nerf" comes around.

Raid loot isnt all that, get over it.

[Roguewiz]

This thread is SOOO 2 months ago.

/not signed btw

[MysticTheurge]

Thread necromancy will permanently taint (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm) your soul.

[Aspenor]

Thread necromancy will permanently taint (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm) your soul.

Haven't you watched Ziggy's Posting Video??

Tis always better to post in an existing thread than to create a new one :D

[Ron]

Holy necrothread, batman! :D

Can't get behind this. There already IS a complete respect in game, it's called rerolling. Apparently everybody except me is capable of hitting the level cap in a week-and-a-half, so why is it such a big deal? Sounds like a waste of developer resources to me.

[Ziggy]

Haven't you watched Ziggy's Posting Video??

Tis always better to post in an existing thread than to create a new one :D
ive got a posting video?:cool:

got a link?

oh and not signed.

[Ziggy]

I have nerfed toons that are slated for perma-death, but ultimately it does not matter. You can only loot run for so long before it gets boring and with a level cap that rises slowly and turbine's inability to get new modules and patches performed by their "coming in..." dates, there really is nothing much to do. Ok, you can run pop 16 or so times with each of your toons, then maze, then cabal, then start over in a week...or you can reroll that gimp. I find that capping the xp on a new toon takes about 80 hours of game time, less if he is twinked. A full respec would be great, I would love it, but ultimately, you work within the boundaries of the system you are in, or you can whine about the system and waste enough time posting and reposting to have been able to have leveled to 14 with all of your gimps.
so you dug up this thread to tell us you disagree with it?

thanks.

no go clean the mud off your pants.

[Strakeln]

/casts resurrect thread

LOOK WHAT I FOUND, GUYS!


:D:p:D:p:D:p:D:p

[bobbryan2]

/signed

:D

[Kromize]

signed.

[Quanefel]

So the narcissistic sense of entitlement is not new, really more of a continuation from before. Rather interesting.

[Moragon]

Maybe it's just me, but part of the challenge is getting the most out of the character you have created, not necessarily making every character perfect.

Learn to work with their strengths and limitations. When in doubt, create a new one.

It would get pretty boring if every character was an "ultimate" toon.

[Aspenor]

So the narcissistic sense of entitlement is not new, really more of a continuation from before. Rather interesting.

way to make your case, throwing around ad hominem.

[bobbryan2]

So the narcissistic sense of entitlement is not new, really more of a continuation from before. Rather interesting.

Yeah... it was from much earlier than this even! Amazingly.. people have always wanted it because it would be fair for so many reasons in this game.

[Arianrhod]

No respecs. Just give us another character slot every time something changes :D

[Punishment]

They could sing it from the top of the mountain till the cows come home that it would be one time, one time only, never to be repeated again, don't even ask, cause if you do it's a spanking and no dessert.

And people would say, you did it once, do it again, I didn't get a chance to take advantage of it, I was on vacation, my cat was using the computer.


Well a respec token sent to each would eliminate that. Just as they sent out birthday cake. Approve a one time respec due to the nerfs that caused gimps and provide a token to do so with. Nobody can whine and say they didn't get it and then you have no set time frame to use it in. 1 token one shot period..Just a thought :rolleyes:

This would surely put Fred back to good use for a bit...lol

I personally don't have this issue, but if I was impacted by these changes I would want something done as well.

[Kistilan]

No respecs. Just give us another character slot every time something changes :D

THAT is such a better idea. It also keeps players building new characters and playing ALL (or at least the required-to-level & acquire things) content.

[Kistilan]

/casts resurrect thread

LOOK WHAT I FOUND, GUYS!


:D:p:D:p:D:p:D:p

rotflmao!!!! I agree with the "Thread Necromancy will rot your knob off" statements.

[Strakeln]

rotflmao!!!! I agree with the "Thread Necromancy will rot your knob off" statements.I almost poo'd my pants with excitement when I found this thread. :D:p

[Fallout]

THAT is such a better idea. It also keeps players building new characters and playing ALL (or at least the required-to-level & acquire things) content.

Same idea why don't won't implement respec. There's already alot of slots. You want another slot? Buy another account.

It is not a better idea, no big deal to get another account. Big deal can't fix old characters.